Ken Explains it All - Lori & Ken Alexander - Part 3

[happy atheist]

Part 1: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20947

Part 2: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=21069

Anyone want to recap where we are in the discussion?

[notsocommon]

He is still here?

[Koala]

He is still here?

with no end in sight....and he has the sadz now :(

[formergothardite]

I can't recap the last couple of threads. They have been all over the place. Not even Ken seems to know why he came here. The reasons keep changing. No one but Ken seems to be surprised that FJ won't change their rules to accommodate him and Lori. He is sad now, not sure why. I am not giving him my address. I would give it to Koala first.

I'm sad for society because people like his wife think rape is the default setting for men so they can't be blamed if they rape a drunk person.

[Koala]

Someone just left this reply on Lori's blog:

Guest · 28 minutes ago

She tells women to not get drunk or stoned then blame it on the guys when they take advantage of them. "If you are too drunk to speak, then you may be incapable of saying no or warding off unwanted advances and then it's all on you."

No, it's not "all on you." It's rape. Without consent - a clear and explicit, "Yes." It is rape. And the onus, responsibility, guilt, or whatever you would like to call it on the male. Plain and simple. Regardless of how drunk or stoned the other party was - woman or man. Married or single.

Wonder how long it will take Lori to delete it. Can't have anyone blaming rape on the rapists now can we!?!

[Ken]

Part 1: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20947

Part 2: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=21069

Anyone want to recap where we are in the discussion?

I will be happy to recap and this will be my last post here if you are using my full name. Please change the header if you want me to return, and please change it even if you do not want me to return.

Ken (that is me) has jumped onto a Forum that is anti-spanking of children and against Biblical submission of a wife to a Christian husband. My wife runs a personal blog where she expresses her view of marriage and family life for other Christian women. This Forum vomits over much of what she teaches all the while hundreds of women write to her and tell her how she has changed their lives and marriages radically for the better.

This Forum is anti-many things and made up of many diverse women who use the Internet to Cyber Bully those with whom they have a disagreement. The prime example is the title of this post using our full names in an attempt to have the Google Crawler find us and paint us in the very derogatory light of their own machinations.

I have worked with thousands of women in my career and I have a high respect for all people, and get along with everyone, but this Forum is a test of my patience with endless speculation based on a phrase or two, profanity, false accusations, name calling and all in the name of "snark." To some on this Forum this is fun and entertainment, but to others this is a battle field where they let their biases play out with the intent to kill with words if they could. Many on this Forum have no problem with offering one mischaracterization after another and hide behind their monikers to say things they would never say in front of friends or co-workers.

The bottom line is that I was a part of a difficult Christian marriage for some 20 years, and about 14 years ago my wife found Debbie Pearls book "Created" and it had a profound impact on her life with a new Biblical understanding of what "submission" means, in allowing one's husband to lead. Our marriage was what we see is "average" for most marriages where two get along OK, but true connections rarely take place. Since that time my marriage has been quite enjoyable, loving, caring, and a true and full connection has blossomed. We love each other very much and challenge each other to be the best we can be in all areas of life and marriage. We have raised four wonderful, godly and successful children and we believe that training discipline with love at a very young age was a huge part of why they have all turned out so fantastic.

This Forum has an impossible time differentiating between our difficult past twenty years and our new life in Christ and marriage the last 14 years. This may be because many on this Forum have never experienced a true life changing event that has radically transformed their lives like Jesus can do for all who call upon His name and are saved. Beyond this, each Christian has the ability to believe God and walk in His ways at any moment of time in their lives that they are willing to allow the Word of God to rule them. This is what it means to accept Jesus as not just Savior, but as Lord of one's life.

So this Forum snarks, mischaracterizes and adds a blast of profanity from time to time to insure that the manure stays thick. If you do not have a tough skin, or are not willing to wade through loads of manure to find a few gems from time to time, then this place is not for you. Simply recognize that many of the people here have a humanistic mind set and this life is all they know. They owe no allegiance to God, or to His son, and they have no mind set that would allow them to accept the Word of God and the Bible as authoritative.

We on the other hand as born again Believers in Jesus have no choice but to try to follow all of God's Word, even the things that are difficult to understand: like the ideals give for a Christian marriage where the husband is to lovingly lead and wife submissively and respectfully follow. We do not make this stuff up. It is found in numerous places in the Bible and we then have no choice but to try and live this out in our lives. We do not live out all of God's Word perfectly in our lives, and we depend on much grace from the Father, and others, as the Holy Spirit leads and guides us. We do not want to be seen as anything more than what we are which is true Believers on a journey seeking God's truths and His ways in our lives. We have not yet arrived, but we press onward.

I have been nailed on this Forum because my views of submission are too close to being egalitarian, and although I believe in equality of persons, I also believe that just like parents play different role from children, and employers a different role from employees, all are equal in personhood and deserve equal respect. But just for Christians, and only Christians who want a Biblical marriage, I believe that God asks wives to voluntarily allow their husbands to lead them. This is primarily what submission looks like where a wife respects her husband's leadership and support him in his decisions, and the husband in turn does all that he can to not be selfish, but put his wife's needs and desires before his own. Most of a Christian marriage is simply about acting like Christians towards one to another, but when an impasse is reached, a Christian wife respectfully allows the husband to cast the deciding vote, which may or may not be in her favor. She does this not because her husband is smarter or wiser than she is, because many husbands are not, but she does this because this is the call upon her life if she chooses to be Biblical in her walk with the Lord Jesus. She can at any time choose not to be submissive as submission is voluntary and freely given.

This is the order of things that God has designed for a Biblical marriage, but I have ZERO problem with a Christian couple living in an egalitarian marriage, or non-Christian couples living out whatever they like in their marriages. I am not on a crusade for Biblical submission, but I am about defending my wife from regular and vicious attacks, speculation, and mischaracterizations, and about defending God's Word and what He says. If you do not believe in God or the Bible, I have no problem with you living your life according to the truth you know. I am a big proponent of free will and responsibility, and I have spent my life helping people become better at their jobs and their lives. One does not need Jesus to act and be responsible in a marriage, but they do need Jesus if they want to live forever in the life to come.

[TrueRebel1]

I didn't realize that Ken was actually here on FJ! Now I'm tempted to go read the past threads. :)

I'm really not interested in all the Lori/Ken drama, except that a friend of mine consistently "shares" Lori's blog posts on her facebook page (specifically her submission and marriage advice). It really frustrates and saddens me. I mean, how can one not see thru the lies that Lori is "teaching" about "Biblical marriage"? :cry:

P.S. Personally, I am for Biblical submission of a wife to her husband...BUT I think it looks VERY different than the picture of submission that Lori paints! So Ken, it is not true that everyone on this forum is anti- Biblical submission.

[formergothardite]

Ken, while you are here, can you respond if the Ken who has been commenting on Lori's blog for the last couple days is you? Also, do you agree with her that men shouldn't be blamed if they rape a drunk person?

[Coconut Flan]

From lizziesmom

Ken: When you use phrases like helping women to return to 'decency and submission' you pretty much tip your hand. There isn't a woman on here who is indecent and being submissive is not a great quality in either man or woman. You totally lost me as far as taking anything you write here very seriously since that is where you are coming from -- MAN is superior to WOMAN and all women should behave a certain way to be acceptable in your eyes. Glad you and Lori found one another because you certainly deserve each other.

Submission is your hobby horse, Ken. You aren't going to find many followers of it here. You aren't going to find many followers of it outside your restricted religious circle. Contrary to your belief, most Christians are not biblical literalists. You and Lori aren't even true literalists. Until you follow every little NT requirement, you are picking and choosing and refusing to admit it. You present your opinions as fact and wonder why people who think and analyze refuse to accept your view of marriage. To most of us it is founded on erroneous assumptions. Your arguments have been completely unpersuasive in changing at least my opinion. In fact, I've learned things that make me shudder.

[Nettie]

P.S. Personally, I am for Biblical submission of a wife to her husband...BUT I think it looks VERY different than the picture of submission that Lori paints! So Ken, it is not true that everyone on this forum is anti- Biblical submission.

Sorry if you've already posted this, but I'd be really interested to know how you think Biblical submission works.

[lipstickgoalie]

Ken, no one is going to change the header. We are using your last name because your wife put it out there for all the world to see. You really don't get to dictate what happens.

I have been thinking about what you said to me in thread 2. That it was nice to know that nice things happened and that I care about things other than the Fundies. You know what Ken? Every single person here does. That was so patronizing and condescending.

Your little summary there proves that you have very little if any critical reading skills. And zero ability to engage in debate. And you are a liar. High respect for everyone? My ass Ken. You judged and judged and judged. You called Koala a thief based on her ability to quote your wife's inconsistent ramblings. You made judgements about me.

So fuck you Ken.

Please don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

[Loveday]

I will be happy to recap and this will be my last post here if you are using my full name. Please change the header if you want me to return, and please change it even if you do not want me to return.

Finally, something with which I can agree with Ken.

And I do want you to return, Ken. You've got a lot of unanswered questions to deal with yet. ;)

[Loveday]

Well, I still agree with Ken that his full name shouldn't be on the header, but that's not up to me, so moving on...

A comment from today's post on Lori's blog:

She tells women to not get drunk or stoned then blame it on the guys when they take advantage of them. "If you are too drunk to speak, then you may be incapable of saying no or warding off unwanted advances and then it's all on you."

No, it's not "all on you." It's rape. Without consent - a clear and explicit, "Yes." It is rape. And the onus, responsibility, guilt, or whatever you would like to call it on the male. Plain and simple. Regardless of how drunk or stoned the other party was - woman or man. Married or single.

And ooh, look, Ken's reply:

She does say this, and it is not "all on you." Whoever perpetuates evil is the one responsible for the evil, but you know what she means. A woman is crazy to leave the well lit street to walk down a dark alley for a one minute short cut. She has every right to walk down that street, but if she knows the danger that lurks in the dark she will take responsibility for her own life and choices and act responsible staying in the light.

If one frequents bars, gets drunk, gets stoned, they have a huge responsibility in the outcome of what happens next. When you drive down the street you are not only taking responsibility for your own driving, but you are driving defensively, making sure to avoid situations where other drivers may not see you, or may be heading right towards you and you swerve to avoid them.

To take all the onus off of a person who goes and gets drunk and stoned for the outcome of those lives is ridiculous. So she is not responsibility for the rape, that is all on the rapist, but she has every responsibility for having put herself in a situation that can lead to rape and other vicious attacks.

I thought about making popcorn, but this subject is too serious for that. :?

[happy atheist]

Why would we remove his last name? We use full names all the time all over the board. When Ken contacted the administration to ask if we would let him have a membership despite him and his wife being people we snark on, he was eager to let us know who he was, and eager to post as himself. His username is his real name. He chose that. The very first thing he posted here was

Hi this is Ken A. ... the real one

His wife's blog is lorialexander.blogspot, FFS. If he wants to get pissy with someone for introducing their surname to the internet, it should be Lori.

[ShesCrafty]

Someone just left this reply on Lori's blog:

Wonder how long it will take Lori to delete it. Can't have anyone blaming rape on the rapists now can we!?!

I've just been skimming Ken's wall 'o texts, so I completely missed this little gem by Lori and would like to address it with a personal story.

Ken - When I was 19 years old, I was at a party and drinking. I was then drugged and gang raped in a back bedroom. I only remember bits and pieces of it as I kept slipping in and out of consciousness. It took me six months to even acknowledge it and then years of therapy to come to terms with what happened to me. This is what I learned from that experience: IT WAS NOT MY FAULT. THE FAULT LIES SOLEY WITH THE MEN THAT RAPED AN UNCONSCIOUS WOMAN. THE FACT I WAS DRUNK IS A MOOT POINT, IT DOES NOT MATTER. I WAS A VICTIM AND I DID NOTHING TO CAUSE MY RAPE. THOSE MEN ARE RAPISTS AND WILL ALWAYS BE RAPISTS. IT WAS NOT MY FAULT.

If my 19 year old self had read you and your wife's words, I would have probably spent days balled in a corner, crying and blaming myself for what happened.

Luckily, I'm reading it 15 years later, so my 34 year old self has only this to say: FUCK YOU AND THAT MONSTER CUNT YOU ARE MARRIED TO.

[Loveday]

Why would we remove his last name? We use full names all the time all over the board. When Ken contacted the administration to ask if we would let him have a membership despite him and his wife being people we snark on, he was eager to let us know who he was, and eager to post as himself. His username is his real name. He chose that. The very first thing he posted here was His wife's blog is lorialexander.blogspot' date=' FFS. If he wants to get pissy with someone for introducing their surname to the internet, it should be Lori.[/quote']

Point taken. :think:

[formergothardite]

You know what Ken, for someone who wants to place a huge responsibility on women for being raped, you accept very little responsibility for you and Lori putting your real names with extremely controversial beliefs. You are responsible for putting yourself in this situation, don't blame us. If it works for rape it works for this, right?

I am confused why is he so afraid that people will connect him with things he wrote here. Is he ashamed of the things he writes? I don't link my name here(or anywhere) because I assume that there is at least one insanely crazy person reading it, but Ken has already plastered all his personal info out there for the entire world to see, so he must not be bothered by total strangers knowing what his kids look like or where he lives or where he works or that his wife writes about extreme submission. Unless he really has not understood how the internet works and never realized that it is one big web where you can connect info easily so all this info on him is easy to spot. And he actually is afraid that people will find out what he is writing.

[Ken]

You know what Ken, for someone who wants to place a huge responsibility on women for being raped, you accept very little responsibility for you and Lori putting your real names with extremely controversial beliefs. You are responsible for putting yourself in this situation, don't blame us. If it works for rape it works for this, right?

I am confused why is he so afraid that people will connect him with things he wrote here. Is he ashamed of the things he writes? I don't link my name here(or anywhere) because I assume that there is at least one insanely crazy person reading it, but Ken has already plastered all his personal info out there for the entire world to see, so he must not be bothered by total strangers knowing what his kids look like or where he lives or where he works or that his wife writes about extreme submission. Unless he really has not understood how the internet works and never realized that it is one big web where you can connect info easily so all this info on him is easy to spot. And he actually is afraid that people will find out what he is writing.

I believe that common decency towards all people does not give me the right as a Christian to barge into their lives uninvited to share the love of Christ and Christianity, nor use it as a weapon against them. You want Christians to be considerate as to how they share their faith, but in turn you do not want to be considerate in how you force things upon others.

My response to raping a drunk women is that the rapist is at fault period. How the new commenter missed that I will never know. To be drugged is far different than taking the drugs oneself. There are two crimes committed if that is the case, but the caution to all young ladies remains to stay out of the dark alleys of life.

But in your illustration you now become the rapist, that is how it works. Even as I ask you "please stop." You are a hypocrite, and evil, if you continue doing something against what someone wishes and requests, and then blame them for it. That applies to rape and applies to this current situation. It is just an attempt at a different kind of harm.

You no longer want your mouse to play with... so I will be heading to better things to use my time. I do not live in fear, but yes, there are insane crazies out there that you have acknowledged, so now I get it: Women who are submissive and taken advantage of by dominating husbands need your protection, but others who you disagree with you welcome to throw to the wolves. You have two different standards for your life as to how you desire to protect people from the .00001% chance that they be harmed. And you actively participate in the harm and splash it all over many people without concern for all who may have my same name. A bunch of blooming hypocrites you are. Sad.

[Rebelwife]

I believe that common decency towards all people does not give me the right as a Christian to barge into their lives uninvited to share the love of Christ and Christianity, nor use it as a weapon against them. You want Christians to be considerate as to how they share their faith, but in turn you do not want to be considerate in how you force things upon others.

My response to raping a drunk women is that the rapist is at fault period. How the new commenter missed that I will never know. To be drugged is far different than taking the drugs oneself. There are two crimes committed if that is the case, but the caution to all young ladies remains to stay out of the dark alleys of life.

But in your illustration you now become the rapist, that is how it works. Even as I ask you "please stop." You are a hypocrite, and evil, if you continue doing something against what someone wishes and requests, and then blame them for it. That applies to rape and applies to this current situation. It is just an attempt at a different kind of harm.

You no longer want your mouse to play with... so I will be heading to better things to use my time. I do not live in fear, but yes, there are insane crazies out there that you have acknowledged, so now I get it: Women who are submissive and taken advantage of by dominating husbands need your protection, but others who you disagree with you welcome to throw to the wolves. You have two different standards for your life as to how you desire to protect people from the .00001% chance that they be harmed. And you actively participate in the harm and splash it all over many people without concern for all who may have my same name. A bunch of blooming hypocrites you are. Sad.

What's the line on the bolded being true? I may want to get in on that action.

[Coconut Flan]

You want Christians to be considerate as to how they share their faith, but in turn you do not want to be considerate in how you force things upon others.

Who has forced something on you?

I can see your visiting here did not turn out as you hoped or expected.

You're upset your name is on a thread? That should be like nothing since Lori has already put your full names out for the world to see. It's rather hypocritical to blame anyone here for your name being public. It's time to talk to your wife.

[ShesCrafty]

My response to raping a drunk women is that the rapist is at fault period. How the new commenter missed that I will never know. To be drugged is far different than taking the drugs oneself. There are two crimes committed if that is the case, but the caution to all young ladies remains to stay out of the dark alleys of life.

I'm assuming I'm the "new commenter" you're referring to (I've commented on all three threads, btw), so I'll respond you.

My response to raping a drunk women is that the rapist is at fault period.

Then why did you say this?

If one frequents bars, gets drunk, gets stoned, they have a huge responsibility in the outcome of what happens next.

How the new commenter missed that I will never know.

I didn't miss anything, because again, you said this in response to a woman getting raped.

If one frequents bars, gets drunk, gets stoned, they have a huge responsibility in the outcome of what happens next.

To be drugged is far different than taking the drugs oneself.

There is no difference whatsoever, rape is rape. I voluntarily drank a large quantity of alcohol the night I was raped. No one made me drink it. A friend later told me I took a pill that was offered to me, though I don't remember it. That's why I say I was drugged. THE RAPE THAT OCCURRED AFTERWARDS WAS STILL NOT MY FAULT AND THE BLAME LIES COMPLETELY WITH THE RAPISTS.

There are two crimes committed if that is the case, but the caution to all young ladies remains to stay out of the dark alleys of life.

I'll walk down any alley of life I damned well please and if a get raped during the course of it, guess what? THAT RAPE IS NOT MY FAULT. THE BLAME LIES SOLEY WITH THE RAPIST.

And my last comment to you remains the same: FUCK YOU AND THAT MONSTER CUNT YOU ARE MARRIED TO.

[latraviata]

I will be happy to recap and this will be my last post here if you are using my full name. Please change the header if you want me to return, and please change it even if you do not want me to return.

Please change my name into Latrav, the iata will reveal Verdi's opera and we can't have that, can we?

[happy atheist]

But in your illustration you now become the rapist, that is how it works. Even as I ask you "please stop." You are a hypocrite, and evil, if you continue doing something against what someone wishes and requests, and then blame them for it. That applies to rape and applies to this current situation. It is just an attempt at a different kind of harm.

This is simultaneously one of the most ridiculous and offensive things I have ever heard. :evil:

[formergothardite]

Wow, in the last thread he was saying how nice and reasonable I am and now I'm evil. I think he tries to flatter people thinking it will get his way. It doesn't work here.

Comparing people disagreeing with you on the internet to rape is ridiculous. Ken missed the point of my post. No I'm not like a rapists. None of us are. Ken put his name on here, he has linked his name to Lori's blog, he has said that people at his work know about Lori's blog and he isn't worried about people finding out, so what is the harm of him being linked to this thread? What is he afraid of?

[lipstickgoalie]

This is simultaneously one of the most ridiculous and offensive things I have ever heard. :evil:

Fucking hell Ken. Just fuck you. That is one of the single most offensive things I have read here. Just Fuck You.