Ken Explains it All - Lori & Ken Alexander - Part 3

[Ken]

Unless you're ashamed of your views, what tangible harm would come to you?

There is a ocean of divide between my views and what the Forum attempts t deceive others into thinking are my views. I am not ashamed of my views one bit, and I have few clients who do not already know that I am a strong Bible believing Christian. The harm comes in many forms, and to many people, including those who have my wife's name and must endure your Forum's profanity.

Koala, this must be number 9 and I do not really care. I can change my mind at any time. Is this not what this group is trying to do... get me to change my mind? It's a pretty free country last I checked, even if some wish to curtail more and more freedoms, like changing one's mind.

One good night's sleep is all it takes sometimes for me to change my mind... how about you? Too stuck to be open minded?

[Koala]

this will be my last post here if you are using my full name. Please change the header if you want me to return, and please change it even if you do not want me to return.

You have posted

twice

THREE TIMES

FOUR TIMES

FIVE TIMES

SIX TIMES

SEVEN TIMES

EIGHT TIMES since you made this comment. The header remains unchanged. The red "X" is still in the upper right hand corner. It still leads to somewhere that's not here.

[Mecca]

LOL at Ken being all "you guys are a bunch of big ol' meanie, poo poo heads. I am leaving. But will you all be my friends? Check yes, no, or maybe." Yeah, that is not strange or transparent at all. :roll:

I would rather be BBFs with Satan before I would ever entertain becoming friendly with the likes of someone like this.

[Curious]

I have not gone with anyone yet... who is HGR? All I have asked for is that you keep your bullying, profanity and spew in the Forum Sandbox and not outside on a Google search. I have not been unreasonable in my request, but I am at a loss to know how to proceed if you as the Owner are unwilling to insure that the snark stays at home, and does not harm me, my family, my wife or my job.

I guess I am kind of old fashioned when it comes to taking care of my family. You can understand that I hope.

Click on members, search for HomeGirl Ruby and read her posts. I can't begin to explain her other than to say she was a troll we had and she was the main instigator in my outing in November and apparently has decided to (ironically) continue her cyber-harassment of me.

Now I know the first thing you are going to ask is why is what they did to me harassment and what we are doing to you ok. I will explain the difference to you. *I* am not posting under my real name. I am not, nor have I ever to my recollection (I was a member here for a few years before I was owner, so I'm not going to claim that I never, ever commented on a blog that we follow, but it's not like me to do so. I actually rarely even visit the blogs we discuss) commented on a blog that we follow. I keep my opinions here on FJ. In fact, before I was owner, I had less than 1000 posts even though I'd been a member since 2010 (I actually just went and looked that up for you so it would be accurate). I made something like 2000+ posts in the first couple weeks after I became owner (it was a little chaotic).

I do not talk about my business here. I talk about my real life much other than to give anecdotal stories. So none of the information that was dug up and published on various blogs/forums/fundie blog comments was obtainable UNLESS you already knew who I was. *I* did not provide that information openly in my 5k+ posts. Can information be found out about me on the internet if you know my real name? Certainly. Should that information be used to intimidate, scare, harass me? NO.

If that was the information that was being used in your case, as I've already explained, it would not be allowed here either. That would be considered private information.

The information that is being commented on here is information that either Lori or yourself posted on your blog, here on FJ or on other public blogs in their comments section. It's information that YOU put out there yourself and it was found because you and Lori put your real names out there yourselves.

Here is the bottom line, you clearly really do not understand how google works because if you did you would understand what you are asking me to do is completely impossible. Literally, I can't do what you are asking me to do even if I wanted to. I have no control over what goggle indexes or not. That is why I asked you (completely genuinely) if you really understood how that stuff worked because I sensed you did not and if Lori is going to have a blog, you both *really* need to understand how it works.

Once something is published on the internet (on a public site), hundreds of crawlers and spiders go out and start indexing that information. If you look at the bottom of the page that shows who is online here, you will notice that FJ is being crawled virtually 24/7 by one bot or another. That is how the internet works and what makes it such an amazing, information sharing place. However, it's a double edged sword and you *have* to be aware of that.

I'm serious about telling you my identity, if that will make you feel better, rather than you getting involved with someone that already has shown they are not trustworthy. Doesn't it raise any red flags with you (particularly after I told you that disgruntled former members outed me) that suddenly some random person shows up on Lori's blog ready to give you all kinds of information about me? I realize you don't "know" me any better than the random commenter, but you at least have some history with me and I have never lied to you, so you have no reason not to trust me. Plus, I am the one putting myself out there by offering up my identity to you. I'd rather you get FACTUAL information than who knows what from them.

Edit: because =/= before

[Ken]

Not bullying. That would mean a) that you were basically a child since you're in Cali, b) profanity isn't my cup of tea but it isn't against the terms of service here or any legal authority on the internet in Cali within the context it's been used here, and c) we don't control Google search in general and the person who suggested pushing a certain term to up the odds on hits didn't proceed with it.

Now what has happened is that you, Ken, have dragged this sorry mess out for the third thread. Something that would have died a natural death days ago is still alive and kicking because of you. So guess who has upped the odds of it appearing on Google search now? Instead of one thread to hit Google we now have three. Do you plan to push it to four?

are you kidding me? Go back and look at the thread again... c) we don't control Google search in general and the person who suggested pushing a certain term to up the odds on hits didn't proceed with it.

At least be honest about it. Your group purposely manipulated the Google Crawler to defame my wife. Period and have refused my repeated requests to remedy the harm done. Solve the problem. I am not trying to curtail what you all say in the Forum, but it should stay here and not spew all over the Internet. You are the one's wielding the bat and causing harm.

[Curious]

Thank you for that. It's people like Ken that made coming to terms with being raped a much more grueling experience than it likely would have been otherwise. I was 20 years old at the time and incredibly intoxicated. I was at a party where I only knew one or two people, and I drank too much that night to quell my social anxiety. I was in an upstairs bedroom/sitting room hanging out with my friend and many of her friends. Apparently I passed out on the couch and everyone decided to go back downstairs so they wouldn't disturb me. Well, one of the partygoers couldn't resist the opportunity of someone passed out alone and the rest is history.

I'm so sorry you went through this :( Did they prosecute the rapist?

I hope this doesn't come across as insensitive to your situation, because I do not mean to be. I do not understand what men find inviting about a woman (or man) that is essentially unconscious. It just seems so...vulgar is the word that popped into my mind, but that isn't quite right. They say rape is not about sex, it's about power, but what kind of power can you feel over someone that is unconscious? I just can't wrap my mind around this type of behavior :(

I would never leave a friend alone if they were even mildly incapacitated, but I'm a worrier. I was always the DD, too.

[samurai_sarah]

There is a ocean of divide between my views and what the Forum attempts t deceive others into thinking are my views. I am not ashamed of my views one bit, and I have few clients who do not already know that I am a strong Bible believing Christian. The harm comes in many forms, and to many people, including those who have my wife's name and must endure your Forum's profanity.

Koala, this must be number 9 and I do not really care. I can change my mind at any time. Is this not what this group is trying to do... get me to change my mind? It's a pretty free country last I checked, even if some wish to curtail more and more freedoms, like changing one's mind.

One good night's sleep is all it takes sometimes for me to change my mind... how about you? Too stuck to be open minded?

I asked about tangible harm. If everyone already knows your views, no tangible harm can come from anyone quoting your views. Hurt feelings, in a court of law, constitute proof for neither libel, nor slander.

[Ken]

Click on members, search for HomeGirl Ruby and read her posts. I can't begin to explain her other than to say she was a troll we had and she was the main instigator in my outing in November and apparently has decided to (ironically) continue her cyber-harassment of me.

Now I know the first thing you are going to ask is why is what they did to me harassment and what we are doing to you ok. I will explain the difference to you. *I* am not posting under my real name. I am not, nor have I ever to my recollection (I was a member here for a few years before I was owner, so I'm not going to claim that I never, ever commented on a blog that we follow, but it's not like me to do so. I actually rarely even visit the blogs we discuss) commented on a blog that we follow. I keep my opinions here on FJ. In fact, before I was owner, I had less than 1000 posts even though I'd been a member since 2010 (I actually just went and looked that up for you so it would be accurate). I made something like 2000+ posts in the first couple weeks after I became owner (it was a little chaotic).

I do not talk about my business here. I talk about my real life much other than to give anecdotal stories. So none of the information that was dug up and published on various blogs/forums/fundie blog comments was obtainable UNLESS you already knew who I was. *I* did not provide that information openly in my 5k+ posts. Can information be found out about me on the internet if you know my real name? Certainly. Should that information be used to intimidate, scare, harass me? NO.

If that was the information that was being used in your case, as I've already explained, it would not be allowed here either. That would be considered private information.

The information that is being commented on here is information that either Lori or yourself posted on your blog, here on FJ or on other public blogs in their comments section. It's information that YOU put out there yourself and it was found before you and Lori put your real names out there yourselves.

Here is the bottom line, you clearly really do not understand how google works because if you did you would understand what you are asking me to do is completely impossible. Literally, I can't do what you are asking me to do even if I wanted to. I have no control over what goggle indexes or not. That is why I asked you (completely genuinely) if you really understood how that stuff worked because I sensed you did not and if Lori is going to have a blog, you both *really* need to understand how it works.

Once something is published on the internet (on a public site), hundreds of crawlers and spiders go out and start indexing that information. If you look at the bottom of the page that shows who is online here, you will notice that FJ is being crawled virtually 24/7 by one bot or another. That is how the internet works and what makes it such an amazing, information sharing place. However, it's a double edged sword and you *have* to be aware of that.

I'm serious about telling you my identity, if that will make you feel better, rather than you getting involved with someone that already has shown they are not trustworthy. Doesn't it raise any red flags with you (particularly after I told you that disgruntled former members outed me) that suddenly some random person shows up on Lori's blog ready to give you all kinds of information about me? I realize you don't "know" me any better than the random commenter, but you at least have some history with me and I have never lied to you, so you have no reason not to trust me. Plus, I am the one putting myself out there by offering up my identity to you. I'd rather you get FACTUAL information than who knows what from them.

Curious ... I know enough about how Google works to know that if you request that the Crawler overlook those particular URL's that Google will honor that request and program it into the Search Engine. I also know that you can delete the thread. So you have a lot more control than you will admit. Will that completely rid Goggle of the defamation and profanity laced search result? Probably not, but it will move to page 5, 6 or 7 away from where it can do its most harm.

I will be happy to coordinate the removal of the URL's with you and forget about this HGR and we can both live our lives peacefully and without emotional turmoil that now exists, none of which is our doing and which you as Owner are responsible for. Thanks...

[Curious]

There is a ocean of divide between my views and what the Forum attempts t deceive others into thinking are my views. I am not ashamed of my views one bit, and I have few clients who do not already know that I am a strong Bible believing Christian. The harm comes in many forms, and to many people, including those who have my wife's name and must endure your Forum's profanity.

Koala, this must be number 9 and I do not really care. I can change my mind at any time. Is this not what this group is trying to do... get me to change my mind? It's a pretty free country last I checked, even if some wish to curtail more and more freedoms, like changing one's mind.

One good night's sleep is all it takes sometimes for me to change my mind... how about you? Too stuck to be open minded?

Ken, I'm just going to point out that YOU have been here posting, so anyone that does manage to come here from a google search (the odds of which doing so by googling your name appears to be slim at this point unless they use pretty specific search terms. Lori is another matter), they can see YOUR words as well as ours. So they will be able to make up their own minds about the information they are seeing, right?

If someone took the time to google for YOU, the odds of them just reading what other people are saying and merrily skipping over all of your posts is pretty small, don't you think?

I actually agree with you about being able to change your mind and continue to post and it's clear that you have decided to stay and post, so I think that horse is being beaten a little to death, personally. However, if Koala wants to keep doing it, she can because she's not breaking any rules. Personally, I am glad you changed your mind. I do wish you would branch out a little from just this thread and explore the site a little more, though. Maybe you'd like the hobbies section, for example, if you don't want to try snark or there is a tv/movies/music forum, as well. I think it would be good for you to stick around and see how the internet actually functions a bit, since Lori has the blog.

[Koala]

Koala, this must be number 9 and I do not really care. I can change my mind at any time. Is this not what this group is trying to do... get me to change my mind? It's a pretty free country last I checked, even if some wish to curtail more and more freedoms, like changing one's mind.

One good night's sleep is all it takes sometimes for me to change my mind... how about you? Too stuck to be open minded?

I once heard someone say, "Don't be so open minded that your brains fall out." That sounds like pretty good advice to me. I keep this is mind when you are roaming about the place urging us to take what you say at face value. ;)

That said, there is a large gulf between thoughtfully changing your mind, and inconsistency.

You seem to swing back and forth between:

1) Viewing FJ as a barn full of manure you are wandering through in search of a pony friends

2) Viewing FJ as a Christless wasteland full of bullies, where none can be saved, no not one

If you want to continue to post here, there's certainly no one stopping you, but you should know that it sounds childish when (every few posts) you stamp your foot and threaten to leave if everyone doesn't get their acts together and do what you want ***RIGHT.THIS.VERY.MINUTE***

[Curious]

are you kidding me? Go back and look at the thread again... c) we don't control Google search in general and the person who suggested pushing a certain term to up the odds on hits didn't proceed with it.

At least be honest about it. Your group purposely manipulated the Google Crawler to defame my wife. Period and have refused my repeated requests to remedy the harm done. Solve the problem. I am not trying to curtail what you all say in the Forum, but it should stay here and not spew all over the Internet. You are the one's wielding the bat and causing harm.

Ken, again, that is not how Google works. Seriously, I am not lying to you. This site is indexed literally 24/7 by one bot or another. They are listed in who's online and you can see if for yourself. You can monitor it all day/night if you wish to, to see that I am telling the truth. The bots are the ones in bright yellow (they usually say have bot in the name, but not all of them do. They will always be that bright yellow, though).

The "campaigns" you are talking about is called "googlebombing." Here is a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_bomb

It has a long and varied history, which you can read about (I posted this information once before).

Even if we changed the thread title that upsets you, which if I thought you understood it was a one time thing and didn't mean you were going to get your way if you just harped on something long enough, but with you, I fear it would just be the beginning of a very slippery slope based on some of what I've seen so far, it would not matter because that horse is out of the barn, got married, had babies, grandbabies, great grandbabies and died now.

On top of that, people are allowed to have their opinion of Lori (though I am understanding that having that particular thread title is upsetting). So they would still be allowed to say things like that if that is their opinion.

Here is the thing, you are never going to meet any of these people that are saying this about you and Lori. People said worse things about me (and a few other members here) in Nov. Several of them, people that I actually thought were my friends for years. We hadn't met in person, but for me the internet is very real. I don't treat people differently because they are "only" online. I *knew* the stuff they were saying was not true. People that know me knew that stuff wasn't true. If other people wanted to believe it, then that was on them. If they looked at the "body" of my online presence and believed the "haters" (I hate that word, but I'm using it for convenience here) over me, then I probably didn't want them in my life anyway. It's part of having an online presence. Some people are not going to like you. Some people are going to be strong in their opinion. You have to acknowledge it and move on or it will eat you up and if it starts eating you up, it's time to get off the internet because you are *never* going to be able to control the internet. It's not realistic.

[Curious]

Curious ... I know enough about how Google works to know that if you request that the Crawler overlook those particular URL's that Google will honor that request and program it into the Search Engine. I also know that you can delete the thread. So you have a lot more control than you will admit. Will that completely rid Goggle of the defamation and profanity laced search result? Probably not, but it will move to page 5, 6 or 7 away from where it can do its most harm.

I will be happy to coordinate the removal of the URL's with you and forget about this HGR and we can both live our lives peacefully and without emotional turmoil that now exists, none of which is our doing and which you as Owner are responsible for. Thanks...

You know, eventually I will learn. I should have just taken my little head banging emote and stayed out of this thread like I said I was going to. I was doing so well with that.

I just spent the last, I don't know how long, writing completely sincere posts to you and now you post a thinly veiled threat. So here is what will NOT be happening.

We will not be changing any rules for you, as I have already stated and that includes deleting content. We do not delete content. We also do not provide special crawler instructions for speshul snowflakes. This is a public forum and that includes all threads in it (other than the forums that are restricted for one reason or another, but Quiverful of Snark does not fall into one of those exceptions).

You go ahead and talk to whoever you want vs taking my offer to provide my information. Clearly, you know what you are doing and won't have any problem telling truth from fiction in the info they provide you.

Honestly, outing me didn't scare me off Ken. Did you really think this would work?

[Curious]

I once heard someone say, "Don't be so open minded that your brains fall out." That sounds like pretty good advice to me. I keep this is mind when you are roaming about the place urging us to take what you say at face value. ;)

That said, there is a large gulf between thoughtfully changing your mind, and inconsistency.

You seem to swing back and forth between:

1) Viewing FJ as a barn full of manure you are wandering through in search of a pony friends

2) Viewing FJ as a Christless wasteland full of bullies, where none can be saved, no not one

If you want to continue to post here, there's certainly no one stopping you, but you should know that it sounds childish when (every few posts) you stamp your foot and threaten to leave if everyone doesn't get their acts together and do what you want ***RIGHT.THIS.VERY.MINUTE***

I retract it. Go ahead and beat the horse. I'm done being nice.

[Curious]

If you want to continue to post here, there's certainly no one stopping you, but you should know that it sounds childish when (every few posts) you stamp your foot and threaten to leave if everyone doesn't get their acts together and do what you want ***RIGHT.THIS.VERY.MINUTE***

Ok, I confess. I may have skimmed some of the wordier posts :shifty-kitty:

I didn't notice that he was YAGEing after the initial post. I tend to discount the initial rage flounces, particularly from newbies, because who hasn't had their temper get the better of them on a new forum at some point ;)

Can you point me in the right direction so I can beat myself up a little more please? TIA!

[Ken]

Ken, I'm just going to point out that YOU have been here posting, so anyone that does manage to come here from a google search (the odds of which doing so by googling your name appears to be slim at this point unless they use pretty specific search terms. Lori is another matter), they can see YOUR words as well as ours. So they will be able to make up their own minds about the information they are seeing, right?

If someone took the time to Google for YOU, the odds of them just reading what other people are saying and merrily skipping over all of your posts is pretty small, don't you think?

I actually agree with you about being able to change your mind and continue to post and it's clear that you have decided to stay and post, so I think that horse is being beaten a little to death, personally. However, if Koala wants to keep doing it, she can because she's not breaking any rules. Personally, I am glad you changed your mind. I do wish you would branch out a little from just this thread and explore the site a little more, though. Maybe you'd like the hobbies section, for example, if you don't want to try snark or there is a tv/movies/music forum, as well. I think it would be good for you to stick around and see how the internet actually functions a bit, since Lori has the blog.

I am in no way concerned about ANYTHING I have written that will reach even a .0000001% chance of being considered libelous or defamation of character. My posting here, is to precisely to see if I can reason with reasonable people and get them to remove the defamation of character that they PURPOSEFULLY participated in moving up the Google Search Engine to be just under my wife's name, and blog, when typing in her name. It is here that gross misconduct has taken place by many people and allowed to continue by the Owner of the blog with no attempts to rectify the libelous behavior.

There is harm to me in other posts, but I hope it stays only in this Forum. If it escapes I will have even greater cause against FJ. I mean no harm to you, nor anyone in this group, but I came with a request that goes unanswered. Do the honorable thing and rectify the situation and let's both move on to much better things. I cannot tell you what I will do next to try and repair my wife's good name because I do not know, but I know that my journey will continue until the libelous profanity laced words are removed. But for the sake of your sanity, I will try to make this the last time I will make the request, and the request will stand until the URL's are reduced to back pages of 3 or more on a Google search of my wife's name.

Like I said.... I am old school when it comes to protecting my family... but why not just do the right thing here? My guess is that over half of your group agrees that the experiment went too far and should be rectified amicably. Children will play and the parents are held responsible fir the harm they cause.

Good night, and I believe you have my email address so I would be interested in knowing who you are, and you seem like a pretty reasonable and decent person, except when you do nothing to curtail people's posting of libelous and defaming things about me and my wife. I certainly can parade a few thousand people to vouch for who I am and expose the defamation and lies and prove that some desire to harm me simply because my wife writes a blog with which they disagree.

I would much rather be discussing other things... and carrying on a true knowledge based debate instead of shoveling manure.

http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/ ... space.html

"We know that as the Internet grows, there will be more and more lawsuits involving libel and defamation," says attorney David H. Donaldson, editor of Legal Bytes, an electronic magazine that discusses legal issues involving computers and networking. "The only question is if the number of cases will grow steadily or if there will be an explosion of lawsuits all at once."

The increasingly common phenomenon of online forums creates the possibility for you to reach large audiences, but it also creates the ability for you to commit defamation or libel -- something that an ordinary citizen didn't have to worry about in the past. Before the growth of online communication, people who didn't work in the media usually didn't have to worry about libel or defamation. "Libel laws apply to the Internet the same way they do to newspapers and TV stations," explains former Federal Communications Commissioner Nicholas

Johnson, a professor at the Iowa University school of law. "The same technology that gives you the power to share your opinion with thousands of people also qualifies you to be a defendant in a lawsuit."

If you post false information about another user and disgrace them in public, they have the right to take you to court -- and they could win a big settlement if they can prove you were negligent.

There is no legal ambiguity about whether individual users can be sued for making defamatory or libelous statements. Individual users are responsible for making sure the information they distribute is not libelous or defamatory.

[Ken]

You know, eventually I will learn. I should have just taken my little head banging emote and stayed out of this thread like I said I was going to. I was doing so well with that.

I just spent the last, I don't know how long, writing completely sincere posts to you and now you post a thinly veiled threat. So here is what will NOT be happening.

We will not be changing any rules for you, as I have already stated and that includes deleting content. We do not delete content. We also do not provide special crawler instructions for speshul snowflakes. This is a public forum and that includes all threads in it (other than the forums that are restricted for one reason or another, but Quiverful of Snark does not fall into one of those exceptions).

You go ahead and talk to whoever you want vs taking my offer to provide my information. Clearly, you know what you are doing and won't have any problem telling truth from fiction in the info they provide you.

Honestly, outing me didn't scare me off Ken. Did you really think this would work?

I must have missed something somewhere. I am not threatening. I honestly have no clue what steps are necessary to get the thread removed. I can promise you that I am not a difficult or purposefully hurtful person, but I really don't get it. When did I say I would out you?

[Curious]

I am in no way concerned about ANYTHING I have written that will reach even a .0000001% chance of being considered libelous or defamation of character. My posting here, is to precisely to see if I can reason with reasonable people and get them to remove the defamation of character that they PURPOSEFULLY participated in moving up the Google Search Engine to be just under my wife's name, and blog, when typing in her name. It is here that gross misconduct has taken place by many people and allowed to continue by the Owner of the blog with no attempts to rectify the libelous behavior.

LOL Yes, we are SO amazing that we planned it to fall *right* under Lori's blog in the search engine. Doofus, we have NO CONTROL over it. Google uses their own algorithm which they do not publish. No one knows what it is. If we knew how to beat google, trust me we'd be higher in a lot more searches than we are (as would anyone that "broke the code") :roll:

For the millionth time: People having an opinion, even a distasteful one is not defamation. I was going to look up more stuff to show you, but I am trainable and I am going to do this :angry-banghead: instead.

There is harm to me in other posts, but I hope it stays only in this Forum. If it escapes I will have even greater cause against FJ. I mean no harm to you, nor anyone in this group, but I came with a request that goes unanswered. Do the honorable thing and rectify the situation and let's both move on to much better things. I cannot tell you what I will do next to try and repair my wife's good name because I do not know, but I know that my journey will continue until the libelous profanity laced words are removed. But for the sake of your sanity, I will try to make this the last time I will make the request, and the request will stand until the URL's are reduced to back pages of 3 or more on a Google search of my wife's name.

No, you won't. Keep threatening me though and we can start talking about all the false accusations you made about my business restricting your wife's civil rights when it hasn't :)

You do understand in your egomania that there is more than one Lori Alexander in the world, right? There is nothing that identifies the links as your wife vs any other Lori Alexander.

Like I said.... I am old school when it comes to protecting my family... but why not just do the right thing here? My guess is that over half of your group agrees that the experiment went too far and should be rectified amicably. Children will play and the parents are held responsible fir the harm they cause.

Good night, and I believe you have my email address so I would be interested in knowing who you are, and you seem like a pretty reasonable and decent person, except when you do nothing to curtail people's posting of libelous and defaming things about me and my wife. I certainly can parade a few thousand people to vouch for who I am and expose the defamation and lies and prove that some desire to harm me simply because my wife writes a blog with which they disagree.

I would much rather be discussing other things... and carrying on a true knowledge based debate instead of shoveling manure.

That ship sailed the second you started threatening me, buddy. It's my policy not to negotiate with terrorists.

[Curious]

I must have missed something somewhere. I am not threatening. I honestly have no clue what steps are necessary to get the thread removed. I can promise you that I am not a difficult or purposefully hurtful person, but I really don't get it. When did I say I would out you?

You can't out me Ken. I've already been outed. You aren't that obtuse though, so I'm not going to play this game with you.

[spud]

I'm late to these threads (and I skipped a good chunk of part 1 and all of parts 2 and 3). So far I haven't seen anything that could be considered libellous...and I'm British (from what I understand UK libel laws are stricter than those in the US, but I got that from an episode of The Good Wife).

Ken, could you point out the posts that you feel are libellous?

[ShesCrafty]

Curious, maybe you didn't know this but Ken has a penis (presumably) and you are just one of the lowly vagina people who should be submissive to him. Now, as you can tell, Ken has a much better understanding of how the internet works than you do (because, again, penis > vagina) and he has commanded you to fix Google so that his wife's name does not show up until at least the 6th or 7th page. I'm sure if there had been enough room on the tablet, this would have been the 11th Commandment. So get to it, woman.

[Curious]

Curious, maybe you didn't know this but Ken has a penis (presumably) and you are just one of the lowly vagina people who should be submissive to him. Now, as you can tell, Ken has a much better understanding of how the internet works than you do (because, again, penis > vagina) and he has commanded you to fix Google so that his wife's name does not show up until at least the 6th or 7th page. I'm sure if there had been enough room on the tablet, this would have been the 11th Commandment. So get to it, woman.

I guess I am going to be labeled "difficult" now, but I've been called worse by better, so somehow I will find the strength to continue on. (we need a swoon smiley...we might have one, but I couldn't find it, if so).

Do you think if I had my husband type my responses that would be sufficient since he has a penis (confirmed, not presumably) ;)

[formergothardite]

You have to show me this one: " Perhaps you should start with when you said non-Christians are selfish and don't care about anyone but themselves always putting their wants first. That right there is a pretty nasty mischaracterization that you wrote and you did not even acknowledge it when I corrected you on it."

I will be happy to apologize if I said, " on-Christians are selfish and don't care about anyone but themselves always putting their wants first." I know many nonChristians who are very loving and giving people. I will stand corrected and if I said it it was a moment of frustration, but not something I think is true of nonChristians in general.

You can't keep trying to hold Lori accountable for not running her blog the way you want her to. There are many questions that get unanswered and this one went unanswered because she felt it was only placed there to stir up controversy by a troll. Was she wrong in this assumption? Regardless, she has a policy of not answering any comments that appear troll like.... as she is following what Jesus says about such things.

Your truth is not our truth, but I am willing to explore further as I have time your view that many are being harmed by the concept of submission. Our world cannot run on your timing and your insights. We can only accept what you say and try to check it out ourselves.

Given that the Bible clearly teaches submission... what do you recommend she teach along with the concept if submission to differentiate the proper use of the role vs. its improper use with a domineering husband? Must she put a disclaimer on every post about submission? Or will one post on the subject satisfy you? Why not start your own blog and talk about these things intelligently instead of attacking others who do not have your knowledge?

I'm too lazy to go look it up at this moment, but I will. You didn't use those exact words, but you did say something along that line because I corrected you on it. As someone who is not religious it drives me nuts when people act like the only thing that keeps people from raping and stealing and not being selfish is a god. I don't need a god to be a nice person.

If she assumed it was a troll trying to stir up controversy, why didn't she delete it? She his happy with the delete button, but when it came to something as horrible as marital rape she didn't use it? I'm not telling her how to run her blog, I'm telling you that if you are going to stand here and say she is this wise mentor and then we go and see that she doesn't delete or respond to a comment that is about a subject as serious as rape, we are going to question her wisdom. Saying she is wise over and over again means nothing if she lacks the wisdom on how to address a rape comment.

I didn't say that this is "my truth" it is the truth and this doesn't in anyway negate Lori's experience. The truth is, submission can work to make marriages happy and it can also work to give abusive men more control over their wives so that they can abuse them more. And you didn't even have to take my word for it. I gave you links, I have given you several examples, other posters have done the same. This isn't my truth. This is a truth about religion and submission. The truth is, it will and is being used to abuse women. The truth is is that at least one woman went to a person who believed like Lori who gave biased advice, assumed the woman was to blame, and told her to go home and submit more and that woman was dead two weeks later at the hands of her husband. The truth is, Lori wouldn't know if she has had lots of women staying in abusive relationships and dying inside because of her advice. And if someone did comment on her blog saying that the advice to submit more harmed them, she would probably hit the delete button.

Here is a quote Ken, in case you missed it from a woman who stayed in an abusive relationship until she had an emotional breakdown because all the people she went to were like Lori and gave blanket advice to submit more while assuming she was at fault. This woman said her life was like living in a concentration camp, but people didn't know because of this:

on the surface, we looked good. People praised us all the time. They thought we were a role-model family. I always believed it was my wifely duty to make sure our family looked good, so I was hiding a lot of secrets. I talked as if my husband was a hero because I didn’t want people to think I was a rebel

This is what you and Lori don't get. The shell of a woman I was talking about Ken, it isn't going to be obvious. But you don't have to take my word for it, there is plenty of evidence if you are really willing to be "always learning".

Submission blogs are a dime a dozen. They teach the same biblical principles that Lori is teaching yet we rarely discuss any of the others. So Lori isn't getting discussed here because of her biblical beliefs, if it was just that we would have tons of other submission blogs we talked about. Lori takes it to the extreme and that is what makes her stand out as dangerous. I do believe at one point in one of these threads you said Lori didn't want to be like the other submission blogs, she wanted to stand out, well she has. Most of these other blogs are not giving the blanket advice to submit more while making assumptions that the woman is always to blame. That is the difference. Most of them don't need disclaimers to discuss abuse because the warnings about abuse comes through in their regular writing, something Lori hasn't done. What is the point of a disclaimer or a post that might be missed when Lori is going to continue to always blame women, always give biased advice, always make assumptions when giving advice, and always say to submit more? How is it wise to give advice in this way? Really, I want to know? How is it wise to give blanket advice based on biases and assumptions?

[Curious]

How is it wise to give blanket advice based on biases and assumptions?

You know what's funny (in an ironic sense, not a haha sense), I went to Ken's (business) website a few days ago and looked around it and read quite a bit of it. Part of the reason that I hung in with him so long and tried again tonight is that I think that somewhere in there he actually knows this stuff based on what I read there.

I really think that had he married someone that was....not Lori, he probably would be a decent, fun person. You can see shades of it here once in a while.

Then he goes and says something like we are just like rapists and I lose all hope again. It's too bad, he doesn't use his leadership to pull them out of the extremism that Lori appears to have drug them deeper into. Sometimes the wife getting her way 95% of the time isn't the best move, maybe.

[OkToBeTakei]

Lori Alexander is a Fucking Monster

by GeoBQn » Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:15 pm

I mean, that's pretty obvious already, but today's post made me physically ill to read it.

lorialexander.blogspot.com/2013/06/seeds-of-rebellion.html

If you see any signs of rebellion in your children, please deal with it when they are very young. The younger you deal with this, the better chances you have of raising children who are not rebellious. The first place to start is when you ask them to do something, do they do it right away? If not, deal with it quickly.

One young woman told me when she asked her two and a half year old son to come to her to change his diaper, he ran away. I told her she must take a wooden spoon or some other object and spank him on his bottom hard enough so it will hurt. She told me it worked beautifully. She never had to spank him because if she just shows him the spoon, he obeys. The best thing would be for a child to obey you before he even sees the spoon!

I realize spanking a child is very controversial in today's climate. However, I will always teach what the Bible teaches regardless of what "the experts" are saying. Rebellion is a terrible thing and must be dealt with or you may end up having a child that causes much pain in your life later on.

ETA: Her full name in the title of the thread, so it will appear if someone searches her name in Google.

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So I googled Lori Alexander and this is what you are led to by google. Technically it comes up as the second hit in the drop box of the google search term Lori Alexander.

I'm assuming this is what Ken is objecting to?

He doesn't like the 'f' word being used. His wife's name being attributed to her words or the word 'monster.'

He's A-OK with her telling people to hit a two year old child with a wooden spoon on their bottom until it hurts though.

This is a very world strange we live in.

[Pathfinder]

I think Ken is just mad because it's the internet and he can't pin Curious to the wall.