Ken Explains it All - Lori & Ken Alexander - Part 3

[Ken]

I think there is a difference between telling people to be careful and saying that women should be held hugely responsible for having been raped which is what Ken said. I'm going to tell my daughters to be safe, but if they do get raped I'm not going to be all "Well most of the blame is on you for being there/being drunk/wearing that outfit/going to a party/and the list goes on for reasons women get blamed for their rape."

Here is what I wrote: "So she is not responsible for the rape, that is all on the rapist, but she has every responsibility for having put herself in a situation that can lead to rape and other vicious attacks."

Are you saying she is not responsible for having put herself in a situation that can lead to the rape?

Responsible = "having the job or duty of dealing with" Her job is to deal with where she puts her life, and she would have zero responsibility if she had accepted responsibly for her own protections. The only way she has no responsibility for her own protection is if some drugged her or poured alcohol down her throat against her will.

Context: The author wrote: "If you are too drunk to speak, then you may be incapable of saying no or warding off unwanted advances and then it's all on you."

Who got drunk and put herself at the mercy of an evil man? That is the part she is responsible for, not the rape.

I am responsible for interacting on this forum. I am not responsible for your continuing mischaracterizations of what I say and write. That is your responsibility.

NOT responsible for the rape... but we are all responsible to protect ourselves from evil and malicious people as best we can and getting smashed anywhere is a violation of one's responsibility.

[Koala]

this will be my last post here if you are using my full name. Please change the header if you want me to return, and please change it even if you do not want me to return.

You have posted twice THREE TIMES FOUR TIMES since you made this comment. The header remains unchanged. The red "X" is still in the upper right hand corner. It still leads to somewhere that's not here.

[Stynjen]

Here is what I wrote: "So she is not responsible for the rape, that is all on the rapist, but she has every responsibility for having put herself in a situation that can lead to rape and other vicious attacks."

Are you saying she is not responsible for having put herself in a situation that can lead to the rape?

So, if someone is walking down the street and gets mugged, are they also responsible for putting themselves in that situation? After all, if you walk down the street and have a wallet bulge in your back pocket, that's totally asking for it to be stolen.

By the same token, do you blame people who get into car accidents? I totally think you should, because, you know driving a car is clearly a situation that can lead to a car accident. :angry-banghead:

[Ken]

(emphasis added)

Use of force, threat or coercion? nope

abuse, intimidate or aggressively impose domination over? nope

imbalance of social or physical power? nope

Bullying? nope

One more time: Disagreement (even strong disagreement) does not equal bullying.

Wikipedia:

Cyberbullying is the use of Information Technology to harm or harass other people in a deliberate, repeated, and hostile manner.[1] According to U.S. Legal Definitions, Cyber-bullying could be limited to posting rumors or gossips about a person in the internet bringing about hatred in other’s minds; or it may go to the extent of personally identifying victims and publishing materials severely defaming and humiliating them.[2]

This Forum meets all of these criteria, and more. If you keep the comments to your sand box that is one thing, but when you purposefully manipulate the Google Crawler to put the evil spew out on the Internet for all to see, that is the Cyberbullying.

[Koala]

You have posted twice THREE TIMES FOUR TIMES FIVE TIMES since you made this comment. The header remains unchanged. The red "X" is still in the upper right hand corner. It still leads to somewhere that's not here.

[Coconut Flan]

The California cyber bullying website is all about school age children.

[RosyDaisy]

I wonder if HGR realizes her tattling backfires? No fundie visitor has ever done anything but make poor attempts at chastising us then flouncing when asked hard questions.

[Coconut Flan]

She surely has wasted a lot of her time.

[Curious]

Context: The author wrote: "If you are too drunk to speak, then you may be incapable of saying no or warding off unwanted advances and then it's all on you."

Just to play devil's advocate here: If you are too drunk/stoned/incapacitated to speak you are also incapable of giving CONSENT. If men (or women) don't know/understand/etc that they MUST HAVE consent before having sex (with a man or woman) then they are absolutely, completely 100% at fault. FULL STOP

Some things (torts a/k/a civil crimes) have what is known as contributory negligence associated with them. Violent crime is NOT one of those things. At all. Ever!

[Ken]

WOW this sounds just like this Forum:

Wikipedia:

Legal definition:

Cyberbullying is defined in legal glossaries as

actions that use information and communication technologies to support deliberate, repeated, and hostile behavior by an individual or group, that is intended to harm another or others.

use of communication technologies for the intention of harming another person

use of internet service and mobile technologies such as web pages and discussion groups as well as instant messaging or SMS text messaging with the intention of harming another person.

Examples of what constitutes cyberbullying include communications that seek to intimidate, control, manipulate, put down, falsely discredit, or humiliate the recipient. The actions are deliberate, repeated, and hostile behavior intended to harm another. Cyberbullying has been defined by The National Crime Prevention Council: “When the Internet, cell phones or other devices are used to send or post text or images intended to hurt or embarrass another person."[5][6]

A cyberbully may be a person whom the target knows or an online stranger. A cyberbully may be anonymous and may solicit involvement of other people online who do not even know the target. This is known as a 'digital pile-on.'[7]

Let's be clear: "Examples of what constitutes cyberbullying include communications that seek to intimidate, put down, falsely discredit, or humiliate the recipient. The actions are deliberate, repeated, and hostile behavior intended to harm another."

[Curious]

The California cyber bullying website is all about school age children.

That is because bullying is what happens to children, not adults. Adults (unless there is some kind of disability) rarely have differences in social power. In adults, it is generally called harassment.

Some states are quite progressive when it comes to cyber-harassment. Ask me how I know ;)

[lipstickgoalie]

Wikipedia:

Cyberbullying is the use of Information Technology to harm or harass other people in a deliberate, repeated, and hostile manner.[1] According to U.S. Legal Definitions, Cyber-bullying could be limited to posting rumors or gossips about a person in the internet bringing about hatred in other’s minds; or it may go to the extent of personally identifying victims and publishing materials severely defaming and humiliating them.[2]

This Forum meets all of these criteria, and more. If you keep the comments to your sand box that is one thing, but when you purposefully manipulate the Google Crawler to put the evil spew out on the Internet for all to see, that is the Cyberbullying.

Not even close Ken. The fact that your wife is a fucking monster is merely a statement of fact from my point of view. That fact that you have repeatedly told lies and deliberate mis truths makes you a liar from my point of view. The fact that you don't seem to have much in the way of reading comprehension is a fact from my point of view. Not agreeing does not equal bullying period.

Oh and as to your horrific comments about rape: I need you to sit down and listen closely. I will try to speak slowly. If I had hand puppets I would use those but sadly my nephew has them. Are you with me?

The individual who is raped is never NEVER at fault for being raped. Never. None. Nada. Now way. No how. There are literally no circumstances which would make the victim at fault. Never. Not a single iota of responsibility under any scenario you can come up with. Not in any way. Not by any means.

PS I thought you wre leaving.

[Koala]

this will be my last post here if you are using my full name. Please change the header if you want me to return, and please change it even if you do not want me to return.

You have posted twice THREE TIMES FOUR TIMES FIVE TIMES SIX TIMES since you made this comment. The header remains unchanged. The red "X" is still in the upper right hand corner. It still leads to somewhere that's not here.

[lipstickgoalie]

You have posted twice THREE TIMES FOUR TIMES FIVE TIMES since you made this comment. The header remains unchanged. The red "X" is still in the upper right hand corner. It still leads to somewhere that's not here.

Is it wrong that I hear this in The Count's voice?

[Curious]

I wonder if HGR realizes her tattling backfires? No fundie visitor has ever done anything but make poor attempts at chastising us then flouncing when asked hard questions.

I'm serious. I will give Ken my personal information rather than have him get involved with HGR. I may not like what the people we follow do/say/etc, but that does not mean I want someone like her being involved with them. I am way more willing to trust my information with Ken than I am to trust HGR's interaction with anyone, including my worst enemy (which Ken is not).

[Koala]

Is it wrong that I hear this in The Count's voice?

That works for me :character-count:

[lipstickgoalie]

That works for me :character-count:

Yay!!!!

[ShesCrafty]

You have posted twice THREE TIMES FOUR TIMES FIVE TIMES since you made this comment. The header remains unchanged. The red "X" is still in the upper right hand corner. It still leads to somewhere that's not here.

:character-count:

Couldn't resist using this smiley.

ETA: I see people already beat me to it. But can you really have too much Count Von Count? I think not.

ETA2: You're not the only one who knows how to change the title on their posts, Ken. How do you like mine?

[Curious]

WOW this sounds just like this Forum:

Wikipedia:

Legal definition:

Cyberbullying is defined in legal glossaries as

actions that use information and communication technologies to support deliberate, repeated, and hostile behavior by an individual or group, that is intended to harm another or others.

use of communication technologies for the intention of harming another person

use of internet service and mobile technologies such as web pages and discussion groups as well as instant messaging or SMS text messaging with the intention of harming another person.

Examples of what constitutes cyberbullying include communications that seek to intimidate, control, manipulate, put down, falsely discredit, or humiliate the recipient. The actions are deliberate, repeated, and hostile behavior intended to harm another. Cyberbullying has been defined by The National Crime Prevention Council: “When the Internet, cell phones or other devices are used to send or post text or images intended to hurt or embarrass another person."[5][6]

A cyberbully may be a person whom the target knows or an online stranger. A cyberbully may be anonymous and may solicit involvement of other people online who do not even know the target. This is known as a 'digital pile-on.'[7]

Let's be clear: "Examples of what constitutes cyberbullying include communications that seek to intimidate, put down, falsely discredit, or humiliate the recipient. The actions are deliberate, repeated, and hostile behavior intended to harm another."

*sigh* why do I have a feeling this means that rather than listening to the person that he has at least some familiarity with he went with the random commenter on his blog :angry-banghead:

[Koala]

WOW this sounds just like this Forum:

Wikipedia:

Legal definition:

Cyberbullying is defined in legal glossaries as

actions that use information and communication technologies to support deliberate, repeated, and hostile behavior by an individual or group, that is intended to harm another or others.

use of communication technologies for the intention of harming another person

use of internet service and mobile technologies such as web pages and discussion groups as well as instant messaging or SMS text messaging with the intention of harming another person.

Examples of what constitutes cyberbullying include communications that seek to intimidate, control, manipulate, put down, falsely discredit, or humiliate the recipient. The actions are deliberate, repeated, and hostile behavior intended to harm another. Cyberbullying has been defined by The National Crime Prevention Council: “When the Internet, cell phones or other devices are used to send or post text or images intended to hurt or embarrass another person."[5][6]

A cyberbully may be a person whom the target knows or an online stranger. A cyberbully may be anonymous and may solicit involvement of other people online who do not even know the target. This is known as a 'digital pile-on.'[7]

Let's be clear: "Examples of what constitutes cyberbullying include communications that seek to intimidate, put down, falsely discredit, or humiliate the recipient. The actions are deliberate, repeated, and hostile behavior intended to harm another."

I still dream of making some friends here

Crazy huh?

[Ken]

I'm serious. I will give Ken my personal information rather than have him get involved with HGR. I may not like what the people we follow do/say/etc, but that does not mean I want someone like her being involved with them. I am way more willing to trust my information with Ken than I am to trust HGR's interaction with anyone, including my worst enemy (which Ken is not).

I have not gone with anyone yet... who is HGR? All I have asked for is that you keep your bullying, profanity and spew in the Forum Sandbox and not outside on a Google search. I have not been unreasonable in my request, but I am at a loss to know how to proceed if you as the Owner are unwilling to insure that the snark stays at home, and does not harm me, my family, my wife or my job.

I guess I am kind of old fashioned when it comes to taking care of my family. You can understand that I hope.

[samurai_sarah]

I have not gone with anyone yet... who is HGR? All I have asked for is that you keep your bullying, profanity and spew in the Forum Sandbox and not outside on a Google search. I have not been unreasonable in my request, but I am at a loss to know how to proceed if you as the Owner are unwilling to insure that the snark stays at home, and does not harm me, my family, my wife or my job.

I guess I am kind of old fashioned when it comes to taking care of my family. You can understand that I hope.

Unless you're ashamed of your views, what tangible harm would come to you?

[Stynjen]

Oh and as to your horrific comments about rape: I need you to sit down and listen closely. I will try to speak slowly. If I had hand puppets I would use those but sadly my nephew has them. Are you with me?

The individual who is raped is never NEVER at fault for being raped. Never. None. Nada. Now way. No how. There are literally no circumstances which would make the victim at fault. Never. Not a single iota of responsibility under any scenario you can come up with. Not in any way. Not by any means.

PS I thought you wre leaving.

Thank you for that. It's people like Ken that made coming to terms with being raped a much more grueling experience than it likely would have been otherwise. I was 20 years old at the time and incredibly intoxicated. I was at a party where I only knew one or two people, and I drank too much that night to quell my social anxiety. I was in an upstairs bedroom/sitting room hanging out with my friend and many of her friends. Apparently I passed out on the couch and everyone decided to go back downstairs so they wouldn't disturb me. Well, one of the partygoers couldn't resist the opportunity of someone passed out alone and the rest is history.

I wish I could say that being raped was the worst and that after it happened I was flooded with support, but that would be a lie. I lived in Tulsa at the time and was clerking at a small law firm where one of the partners was a misogynistic, redneck bastard. He used to call me into his office under the guise of "helping me". :pink-shock:

Some of the questions he asked me included:

What were you wearing? :evil-eye:

Did the rapist have an orgasm? :wtf:

Did you have an orgasm? :pull-hair:

Did you save your underwear? :angry-banghead:

And his final words of what he coined "fatherly advice" - When you start dating again, don't EVER tell a man that this happened to you. When I asked him why not, he replied, Because it would take a really special man to be able to TOLERATE something like that!

Well fuck you douchelord attorney, because I not only found that rare and special man, I've been married to him for 15 years. Also because he's not a sick bastard like you, Ken and Lori, god forbid one of our daughters ever gets raped, she doesn't have to worry that her father will ask her what she was wearing or if she kept her underwear for a souvenir. I feel really sorry for your children, particularly your daughters.

I would love to sit here and say that I told him to fuck himself and immediately quit the job, but I absorbed everything he said to me and it took YEARS to heal from the effects of that. What finally helped me was having a therapist who would repeatedly say, what if this exact scenario had happened to a friend, would you blame them? I would usually respond no, but.....I shouldn't have had so much to drink......to which she wisely replied:

We all find ourselves in situations in life where perhaps, if we had to do it over again, we would use better or just different judgment, but I want you to remember

Bad judgment is NOT a rapeable offense!

Fuck you Ken for your vicious and dangerous views - people like you and your wife disgust me.

[Ken]

Did Ken just use the word DUH?

Ken, by speaking out against your wife giving blanket advice to submit more, while blaming the woman and making assumptions that submission will always help I am speaking for the truth. The truth that I have seen in my own life is that submission is very often used abusively and that the advice to submit more is harmful to the woman being told that. I've seen people do exactly like what your wife is doing and bring harm. This doesn't mean that Lori hasn't helped hundreds, it just means that there is a good chance that there are hundreds she has hurt and she doesn't know because they suffer in silence blaming themselves for the abuse. I didn't ask you to take my word for it, I have given you links to jump you off in learning about how submission can be abused and how mentors advising the women to change the husband through submission harms the woman, I have provided at least one story that is the perfect example of what I'm speaking of, and you basically ignore it. If there is even a small chance she is hurting people with her blog don't you want to do what you can to prevent it? I will not go to Lori's blog and say this for two reasons, I would not give you my IP address and secondly Lori would delete it because she doesn't want to hear about it.

You want to speak of mischaracterizations? Perhaps you should start with when you said non-Christians are selfish and don't care about anyone but themselves always putting their wants first. That right there is a pretty nasty mischaracterization that you wrote and you did not even acknowledge it when I corrected you on it.

When I called you a liar or a coward for not addressing the rape comment, I had already seen that you had addressed other comments in that post while both you and Lori skipped over replying to the one about rape. If would think that as serious of a thing as rape would be a higher priority than discussions on the statistics of women working. But even if you were traveling, what was Lori's excuse? You want us to treat her like a wise mentor, but she isn't showing wisdom. Wisdom would be addressing such a comment and saying marital rape was immoral and doing so immediately. But she replied to other comments, not that one. Actions speak louder than words. You say Lori is a wise mentor, but her actions are showing otherwise.

You have to show me this one: " Perhaps you should start with when you said non-Christians are selfish and don't care about anyone but themselves always putting their wants first. That right there is a pretty nasty mischaracterization that you wrote and you did not even acknowledge it when I corrected you on it."

I will be happy to apologize if I said, " on-Christians are selfish and don't care about anyone but themselves always putting their wants first." I know many nonChristians who are very loving and giving people. I will stand corrected and if I said it it was a moment of frustration, but not something I think is true of nonChristians in general.

You can't keep trying to hold Lori accountable for not running her blog the way you want her to. There are many questions that get unanswered and this one went unanswered because she felt it was only placed there to stir up controversy by a troll. Was she wrong in this assumption? Regardless, she has a policy of not answering any comments that appear troll like.... as she is following what Jesus says about such things.

Your truth is not our truth, but I am willing to explore further as I have time your view that many are being harmed by the concept of submission. Our world cannot run on your timing and your insights. We can only accept what you say and try to check it out ourselves.

Given that the Bible clearly teaches submission... what do you recommend she teach along with the concept if submission to differentiate the proper use of the role vs. its improper use with a domineering husband? Must she put a disclaimer on every post about submission? Or will one post on the subject satisfy you? Why not start your own blog and talk about these things intelligently instead of attacking others who do not have your knowledge?

[Coconut Flan]

All I have asked for is that you keep your bullying, profanity and spew in the Forum Sandbox and not outside on a Google search

Not bullying. That would mean a) that you were basically a child since you're in Cali, b) profanity isn't my cup of tea but it isn't against the terms of service here or any legal authority on the internet in Cali within the context it's been used here, and c) we don't control Google search in general and the person who suggested pushing a certain term to up the odds on hits didn't proceed with it.

Now what has happened is that you, Ken, have dragged this sorry mess out for the third thread. Something that would have died a natural death days ago is still alive and kicking because of you. So guess who has upped the odds of it appearing on Google search now? Instead of one thread to hit Google we now have three. Do you plan to push it to four?