Lori Alexander: Valentine's Day Causes Divorce

[latraviata]

Nowhere and at no time did I defend you. I have no idea how many people here you would consider "true Christians." I do know that a few of them have shown more love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and temperance than you have.

If you find me offensive, so be it. I personally find you and your ilk to be fairly offensive.

I still agree with you, I did it in a previous posting where you stated you rear your children to change the world and the Alexanders rear their children to survivive the world. I added, by fear! You said sorry and I've responded to explain that I wholeheartedly agree with you. It must be my poor English....

[OkToBeTakei]

Sorry, I started the cat fighting by not understanding that your comments were were mean to be humorous. I actually thought that some conservative Christian had jumped on and was trying to defend me or something with those words and I was aghast. I think it was your theologygeek that threw me off and I did not want some other Fundie on her defending me and turning this into a war of words. I have not handled my ego and frustrations as well as I would have liked at times, for which I regret as I truly have wanted to dialogue and see where the people in this group are at, and try to see some of what you see. We may never agree on certain things but we can always work on tryng to understand each other, and treating each other with respect.

Done for the night...

That was the point Ken. There was no cat fight. Except for your misunderstanding it was a jest, irony, mild sarcasm call it what you will.

You automatically assumed as it was *gasp* women that it was your manly duty to step in to stop some silly girl prissy nonsense (sarcasm.) If that does not give you pause as to how you view women in general then every single time you say you are looking for mutual understanding it is just so much lip service.

It's a tough old world on the internet and you are at least attempting discussion when most would have given up. You don't need to answer every post I only had one question really, rest of the time I'm just passing comment. There are though, those who have asked the same questions over and over and over which you continue to ignore which really is puzzling.

We are not a group, nor an entity. We are individuals from all around the world. This just happens to be an outlet to have discussion, debate and recourse. It is not always pretty, tis the interwebs after all. This can be an outlet for people to discuss issues they do not normally discuss in their every day lives. The next time you are evangelising somebody just remember that whilst they nod out of politeness as manners condition us to do, maybe inside they are saying what a lot on here are saying. I'm fairly certain if I was in your company I would employ the societal niceties also. It is food for thought.

[formergothardite]

I may have overstated that Lori is not submitting, because I have made no specific requests of her that she has not followed through on. Other things I would like changed I have talked to her about, but I am unwilling to order her around or control her. That would not be loving on my part, so I leave her with the option to take or leave my suggestions, because in reality I simply want her to think some things through for herself long term, not make quick fixes against her will.

So I was wrong in characterizing her as not being submissive. I have made zero specific requests that she has not been willing to do, but in all honesty, I make few requests of her at all, because I treat her as more important than I am, and I value her thoughts, feelings and person hood. Lori is a great person and a great wife. She knows we disagree on a few things and she must process this on her own. Would you not agree, instead of my bossing her around ke an unloving husband might do?

I totally don't think you should boss her around and should let her think for herself. But if presented with this situation on her blog, I hardly think she would tell the woman that it is okay for her to ignore the things her husband has said he would like changed(even if it wasn't a command). Her advice always seems to be "Submit to your husbands desires." Is Lori going to be honest and post this to her blog? Post that you have told her things you would liked changed, but since you haven't ordered she is not doing it?

I see you ignored the bolded part. This is EXACTLY what I was talking about when I said most fundamental Christians who come here aren't honest. You aren't being intellectually honest at all.

[Rebelwife]

What I remember (vagualy) is that mate actually means suitable and appropriate to help. He found a wife that mates to help or something in that fashion, correct me if I am wrong.

Fundies seem to think it is literally a suitable helping friend/partner.

Yes, my understanding is that the phrase was a "help meet for him" where help = appropriate. Here's what dictionary.com has to say: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/helpmeet

[polecat]

I still agree with you, I did it in a previous posting where you stated you rear your children to change the world and the Alexanders rear their children to survivive the world. I added, by fear! You said sorry and I've responded to explain that I wholeheartedly agree with you. It must be my poor English....

Your English is actually excellent, and I'd never have guessed it wasn't your native language if you hadn't mentioned it. I think it was more the nuances of that particular conversation that threw me off. And I really don't generally like being offensive to people. But when it comes to people who espouse physically, emotionally or spiritually abusive nonsense, I'm just fine with being thought offensive. After all, Jesus was pretty offensive when He threw people out of the temple. And He also had some pretty strong words for whited sepulchres that the Alexanders might find interesting ... and noteworthy.

[latraviata]

Your English is actually excellent, and I'd never have guessed it wasn't your native language if you hadn't mentioned it. I think it was more the nuances of that particular conversation that threw me off. And I really don't generally like being offensive to people. But when it comes to people who espouse physically, emotionally or spiritually abusive nonsense, I'm just fine with being thought offensive. After all, Jesus was pretty offensive when He threw people out of the temple. And He also had some pretty strong words for whited sepulchres that the Alexanders might find interesting ... and noteworthy.

Again I agree with you. He asked me some questions about how succesful my children are and if I have a close relationship with them, that I have answered but he doesn't bother to respond I suppose because I am an atheist. :D

[Koala]

Why do you and your group have to bother her/us? Why can’t you leave us alone? You are the ones bullying us and sending nasty comments, trolling. What is wrong with you that you cannot allow freedom of speech? Is this some socialist dictator country or world now? Why won’t you fight for the rights of free speech and start your own blog if you like assailing the virtues of selling out in sacrifice for your spouse? We don’t care, so why do you all care so much about aspirin and the simplify of the gospel?

Truthfully, with the education you've had I should not have to explain this to you, but here goes. Lori is posting a public blog on the internet. Public means all people can read it. Some people will agree with her and give her the ego boost she so clearly craves. Others will see her unapologetically advise a mom (who turned out to be abusive) to hit harder and decide to call her on it. She has to options:

1) Make her blog private

2) Close comments

If she does not do one of those two things then she is opening herself up to unwanted readership and unwanted comments.

Now the shock: People disagreeing with Lori are not violating her free speech. Free speech does not entitle you to back pats and an ice-cream. Someone may just pipe up and tell you you are full of shit. That's how you'll know they have chosen to exercise their free speech.

You will know Lori's right to free speech has been violated when:

1) The gov. shuts down her blog

2) She is arrested for posting her opinions on her blog.

Until then I am going to exercise my free speech to tell you that I have no idea how you have made it in this world 55 years without knowing this.

[Koala]

OK Koala, your chasing me out of your playground soon. I cannot compete with your cut and paste to make everything look like you want it to look. Mischarcaterizations at best, and an unwillingness to recognize that one can hold two thoughts in the brain at once and both be accurate.

If you feel you have been mischaracterized you have no one to blame but yourself. I think the truth is you don't put a lot of thought into what you say, so when it's quoted back to you you see how absurd it really is. But the reality is those are all your words, and the internet is indeed forever. Slander does not = someone quoting my own words back to me, and damn but I don't like the way they sound.

I personally think spankings should be over by 7 years old. I never had to spank any of my teens, BUT if I thought they needed one, I would not hesitate to give them one. is that so contradictory? You want a rule from me NO spankings after 7 years old... PERIOD! It doesn't work that way in real life. We hold out ideals, lie I will never lie, but better believe if a Nazi troop showed up at my door I am lying through my teeth. There is such a thing as a higher principle or ideal trumping another lower idea. Te lower ideal is don't spank after age 7. The higher ideal: "If I think I am going to save my kids life or direction i life by giving them a spanking as a teen... I am spanking them. I still do not think it may be very effective because if you have lost them by 7, additional spankings are less and less effective.

I think you chose this particular quote because it was the only one you could possibly think of a way to address. The ones with you excusing the abusive mom and singing SSM's praises after she promoted marital rape are words you probably didn't want to have repeated to you.

The idea that you are now advocating for spanking teenagers creeps me out in ways that I could not possibly convey :?

Yes, Koala, you can put works on apiece of a paper well to serve your purposes,but have you ever thought of trying to serve fairness in your life, or at least fairness with me? I can again only assume that you are some sort of terrific person in real life who jumps into a Forum and all she cares about is winning, not the truth per se, just being right for her position like this is some mock trial in law school.

I don't know if anyone has ever told you this, but your writings are just about the equivalent of word salad. Serve fairness? I think quoting you directly was more than fair. I have successfully highlighted the fact that your beliefs are horrific and that you frequently contradict yourself. I have further highlighted that you and Lori tell two different versions of how your children were raised. All your whining is doing is highlighting the fact that you came here to straighten us out and discovered that you are no better at defending your ridiculous beliefs than your wife is, so please carry on...whine some more about free speech.

[EmiGirl]

I'm just commenting to let Ken know that I'm a born again Christian who attends a Southern Baptist church and has even functioned as a Sunday School teacher for high school kids. Yet I believe in evolution and that the culture in which Scripture was written should be taken into account when interpreting it for use in everyday life.

[Koala]

My wife is not submitting to me on some issues I would like to see changed or modified on her blog. Are you shocked??? We are working it through, and no, I do not force her to do anything. I ask, suggest but I do not force or push and pull. That too is unbecoming a loving husband."

I may have overstated that Lori is not submitting, because I have made no specific requests of her that she has not followed through on. Other things I would like changed I have talked to her about, but I am unwilling to order her around or control her. That would not be loving on my part, so I leave her with the option to take or leave my suggestions, because in reality I simply want her to think some things through for herself long term, not make quick fixes against her will.

So I was wrong in characterizing her as not being submissive. I have made zero specific requests that she has not been willing to do, but in all honesty, I make few requests of her at all, because I treat her as more important than I am, and I value her thoughts, feelings and person hood. Lori is a great person and a great wife. She knows we disagree on a few things and she must process this on her own. Would you not agree, instead of my bossing her around ke an unloving husband might do?

Gosh, but these sound like two different stories.

My guess: Lori came completely unglued when you came here to whine about how unsubmissive she is. Am I right Ken? The way you two take passive aggressive jabs at each other I could almost see you going home and showing her what a bad example she was setting for all us godless heathens.

You say you are not willing to control her, but upthread you had no problem saying you wouldn't "allow" her to read here. What made you change your tune? I'd hate to hear what your hero Cabinetman would think if he heard you saying it would be unloving to control your wife.

[Hisey]

Well...I really hate to side against you, but am gonna have to on a couple of these, sorry Hisey. His orthodontist son actually doesn't work in the family business to my understanding. He lives in NY state to my understanding and is supporting himself. Also, not living close by doesn't a parent and grown child don't have a close relationship. I know a number of people who had to move away from parents as adults for jobs, but they still have a very close relationship with them. Not saying that his children do have one, just that not living close by does not mean the relationship is not close.

Besides that, do carry on.

I think I wasn't clear. Ken's other son, Ryan, works in the family business. The orthodontist son is doing a residency in orthodontist in NY, which means he is barely self-supporting, but obviously will be doing better soon.

I agee with you about the distance/close relationship thing, though. I guess my point is that Ken and Lori act like their kids are so close to them, and the fact that only one lives nearby calls that into questions, but it doesn't prove it, you are right.

[Koala]

OK Koala, your chasing me out of your playground soon. I cannot compete with your cut and paste to make everything look like you want it to look. Mischarcaterizations at best, and an unwillingness to recognize that one can hold two thoughts in the brain at once and both be accurate.

Yes, Koala, you can put works on apiece of a paper well to serve your purposes,but have you ever thought of trying to serve fairness in your life, or at least fairness with me?

You know, the more I think about your assertion that you have been mischaracterized, the more irritated I get. You want fairness. Here's fairness.

You say I put words on paper? Here's your chance to tell me these are not your words.

You say you were mischaracterized, here's your chance to clarify.

Here's your chance set the record straight. If you ignore it then I will assume that these were indeed your quotes and you were not mischaracterized as you claim:

1)

Mom:

I had one that would never give in to anything, regardless of punishment, spanking did nothing but make her worse, time outs where a joke, finally I picked her up and threw her under a cold shower

Lori Alexander:

A spanking will work if it is hard enough

Mom:

Not with her, we tried hand, and although I was against it belt, wooden spoon, cane everything she would just keep going, I stopped after I thought I broke her arm...

Ken Alexander:

Listen I get the issue that we need to protect against abuse, but you know full well this was not an abusive mother.

Alright, there it is Ken. Are the words I attributed to you yours? If so, how did quoting them mischaracterize you?

2)

SSM

Repeal marital rape laws – not because men are just dying to rape women (they aren’t) but because these laws give women the mistaken impression that they have the right to refuse sex with their husbands.

Why: If we want men to have to marry in order to have access to sex – which is necessary if we are going to foster traditional sex roles and enhance family formation – they must have assurance that they will actually get sex after they marry. If a woman wants to live in a man’s house and eat of his bread, she had better be willing to serve him in this way (barring illness of course); if she refuses to give it to him, he should have the option to take what is rightfully his.

Ken Alexander:

I see a brilliant writer and advocate for submission in a Christian marriage, but you and your friends are giving Lori and me pause to reevaluate.

Are the words I attributed to you yours? If so, how did quoting them mischaracterize you?

3)

SSM:

Consider asking your husband if he would be willing to spank you as part of foreplay.

Please don’t panic. Spanking is not a slippery slope that will lead to BDSM, disturbing fetishes or deviant sexual practices. I can promise you that from personal experience; you won’t be spanked one day and in leather restraints the next. Some people practice Christian Domestic Discipline, but that is actually not what I am recommending either. This is only to be about increasing your attraction to him by having him display dominance via consensual sexual aggression.

It is his decision if he would be willing to try this; this may be outside his comfort zone completely, and he may be feeling very mistrustful of you, but if he is willing to try it, you may not be sure of what to do. Here is one possible way to go: first, ask him to buy a wooden hair brush that has a very flat back (the curved ones tend to leave more bruises). The brush should be on your dresser.

He can sit down on the edge of the bed and tell you to bring the brush to him. Get it, and then kneel down on the floor in front of him and hand the brush to him. He can then pull you firmly but lovingly across his lap, either with lingerie on or no bottoms. It might be easier to have your legs supported on the bed, but your hands off the bed so that you are slightly off balance. He can then administer the spanking; he might want to know that he can swat fairly hard without causing bruises, but even if you do have a bruise the next day, you won’t die.

The number of strokes should be up to him, not you; he decides when the spanking is over (h/t 7man for that idea), not you. When he is done, get on your knees in front of him and say thank you to him. You should thank him because he is doing something that may be outside his comfort zone in order to help you, and you do not deserve it. He is doing this out of love for you, so show him the gratitude he so richly deserves.

Scripture to meditate upon: For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. Hebrews 12:11

(AFTER reading these quotes Ken Alexander said):

BUT SSM made very clear to Lori she is not an advocate of Domestic Discipline

SSM is teaching some sex training for a previous whore

Are the words I attributed to you yours? If so, how did quoting them mischaracterize you?

4)

Ken Alexander:

just because a wife is emotionally abused does not mean she should leave her man or take him to the elders, or separate.

Are the words I attributed to you yours? If so, how did quoting them mischaracterize you?

[Hisey]

I thought it was interesting that Lori asked her daughter Cassi for her thoughts on gluttony. On her own blog, Cassi says she has had food issues herself:

And with self image problems (and food problems too), I've learned that that battle is within my own thinking. There are many lies I tell myself. Who says one body type is better than another? Who says that the girl next to me or on the television is more beautiful than I am?

[Koala]

I thought it was interesting that Lori asked her daughter Cassi for her thoughts on gluttony. On her own blog, Cassi says she has had food issues herself:

Wait, Cassi has a blog too? Is it the food one? Because I can't even fathom that they are advising people on how to confront their kids about weight if both of their daughters have battled self image. Christ, what is wrong with these people???

Bless her heart- truly, my heart just breaks for her. I can't imagine having parents who would realize that your had gained 5lbs, but ignore the fact that you were depressed and had a negative self image. She wonders "who says", and I am afraid the answer is Lori. If this is what it seems, then these people are vile beyond measure.

,

[Hisey]

Wait, Cassi has a blog too? Is it the food one? Because I can't even fathom that they are advising people on how to confront their kids about weight if both of their daughters have battled self image. Christ, what is wrong with these people???

Bless her heart- truly, my heart just breaks for her. I can't imagine having parents who would realize that your had gained 5lbs, but ignore the fact that you were depressed and had a negative self image. She wonders "who says", and I am afraid the answer is Lori. If this is what it seems, then these people are vile beyond measure.

,

Yes, it is the food blog. Here is what she says in her About page:

I have also struggled with unhealthy relationships with food from overeating and gaining weight to under-eating and losing the weight. It never got too extreme, but I can honestly admit that at one point I was on the verge of anorexia. By the grace of God, He saved me from that. Not to say that I am completely free from all of that, but I am starting to gain a healthy perspective of food.

http://www.liverightbehealthy.blogspot.com/p/an-abridged-version-of-my-health.html

[Hisey]

Cassi apparently didn't like her mom "forcing me to eat my salad":

Between the milk allergy, stomach problems, low energy, prone to fainting/face-planting, anemia, and my mom forcing me to eat my salad when I was young {stubbornly, I would sit at the the table for over two hours a night refusing to eat my salad}, I am where I am at today.

http://www.liverightbehealthy.blogspot.com/p/an-abridged-version-of-my-health.html

edited to add link

[Koala]

Okay, I am looking at her blog and she says she came close to anorexia.

I have also struggled with unhealthy relationships with food from overeating and gaining weight to under-eating and losing the weight. It never got too extreme, but I can honestly admit that at one point I was on the verge of anorexia.

Their other daughter said:

My biggest struggle as a dancer was my body image. I never was happy with what I saw in the mirror. Unlike artists who paint a portrait and marvel how their different paints created a beautiful painting; we are the paint. We use our bodies to create the art. Not only do we have to look at them (in class & rehearsals) but so does the audience (in performance).

In my early years of dance, my body became my obsession. I had not even hit puberty and I was worried that I was too curvy or not skinny enough. Not only did my image disorder cause insecurity, but it gave rise to a host of other issues: bad eating habits, depression, injuries, foggy thinking, sleepless nights, and more. Idolizing the way I looked never helped me. It did not improve my appearance or my performance.

When you read the words of these young women you start to get the full scope of the effect Lori's weight obsession really had on them. :( Honestly, I have a daughter myself, and it would rip my heart out if I thought she felt so badly about herself. We have worked very hard to teach her that what's on the outside doesn't matter. I can't imagine that Lori posted what she did knowing what her girls went through.

As our daughters got older, if we thought they were gaining weight, we would talk to them about it. I know this is supposedly a "taboo" subject but we felt no subject was "taboo" with our children. If we saw any sin in their lives, we would talk to them about it.

I know it was hard for our girls if we ever brought it up to them but isn't it hard when anyone brings up any issue in your life that may be a bad habit or sin?

She wrote an entire post on dealing with a daughters weight:

lorialexander.blogspot.com/2013/06/dealing-with-daughters-weight.html#idc-container

[Hisey]

What is this obsession with food, and eating all these odd things to cure "gut" and parasite problems? Ken, Lori, even Cassi seems like this. Don't their friends find that all this food-talk gets old. There are other things in life.

[GeoBQn]

What is this obsession with food, and eating all these odd things to cure "gut" and parasite problems? Ken, Lori, even Cassi seems like this. Don't their friends find that all this food-talk gets old. There are other things in life.

Come to think of it, does Lori have any hobbies outside of the blog? We have much evidence of what she hates, but not what she likes. Jogging? Crochet? Bird watching?

[Koala]

What is this obsession with food, and eating all these odd things to cure "gut" and parasite problems? Ken, Lori, even Cassi seems like this. Don't their friends find that all this food-talk gets old. There are other things in life.

I was wondering the same thing. Salad for dinner every night seems very off kilter and extreme to me. I am also wondering how both Lori and her daughter got parasites. I am not saying it didn't happen, I am just kind of :oops: because I didn't know it was such a thing, and if it is I'd like to avoid it :shock:

[theologygeek]

You just gave me the perfect example of what I am talking about with lies and mischaracterizations that you so harshly chastised me for. You just did it.

I did not write or suggest the first quote above. That was taken from SSM, and not you put those words in my mouth and blast me for them? It's like a loose cannon going off. How can you jump into a conversation grab some words that are not my words and blast me for them? is it just your anger and hatred that makes you do this on a Forum when you would never do it in real life? It is unethical and unprincipled and to be honest I have never seen such blatant acts of slander like this before in my life... I can only assume that this was a mistake, not fully knowing those are not my words and a sincere apology is forthcoming.

You and the little misses are fixated on spanking and submission. Pervs

[Hisey]

I was wondering the same thing. Salad for dinner every night seems very off kilter and extreme to me. I am also wondering how both Lori and her daughter got parasites. I am not saying it didn't happen, I am just kind of :oops: because I didn't know it was such a thing, and if it is I'd like to avoid it :shock:

Forcing a child to eat anything -- to the point the kid is at the table for two hours -- is off-kilter. And look what happened. Both young women now have food and weight issues.

Lori says she and Cassi got the parasites from eating unwashed strawberries from a farmers market while she was pregnant with Cassi.

[theologygeek]

If you find me offensive, so be it. I personally find you and your ilk to be fairly offensive.

Well polecat, you have to admit that your flower child hippie attitude of raising children to help the poor and change the world could be offensive to Ken too. I think you are being a rebellious woman. Don't mind me. I'm high on flu medicine.

[Angharad Crewe]

I was wondering the same thing. Salad for dinner every night seems very off kilter and extreme to me. I am also wondering how both Lori and her daughter got parasites. I am not saying it didn't happen, I am just kind of :oops: because I didn't know it was such a thing, and if it is I'd like to avoid it :shock:

I'm pretty much obsessed with food - I spend a lot of time figuring out how to source high quality ingredients (local, organic, pasture raised, etc.) My friends and I bond over cooking together and scouting out restaurants, farmer's markets, independent cheese and butcher shops, etc. I checked out Cassi's blog and it doesn't look like she's eating anything particularly "odd" - you should see what my friends and I eat! The only thing I don't get about people who go paleo for health is when they refuse to give up eating a lot of sweets...seems like it defeats the purpose.

Ken, how can you say that SSM is a "brilliant" writer when she writes the most horrific things I have ever read on the internet? She is literally advocating rape as a way to build stable marriages. :angry-banghead:

[theologygeek]

Yes, it is the food blog. Here is what she says in her About page:

http://www.liverightbehealthy.blogspot.com/p/an-abridged-version-of-my-health.html

And this "Between the milk allergy, stomach problems, low energy, prone to fainting/face-planting, anemia, and my mom forcing me to eat my salad when I was young {stubbornly, I would sit at the the table for over two hours a night refusing to eat my salad}, I am where I am at today." They fucked up her eating to the point where it affected her brain. It caused her to be on the verge of anorexia. Good going Lori. That has mother of the year written all over it. Oh yeah, great ministry Lori has there. It's the "counsel women to produce anorexic children" ministry.