Lori Alexander: I would have rather not had children if...

[Koala]

:o

Lori:

I would have rather not had children if they grew up to be rebellious and walked away from Jesus.

The mother in me just flinched. I am a Christian turned Atheist, and I can't imagine my mother saying such a thing.

She also got the following comment:

Why would you say that most women don't enjoy raising their children? Are you suggesting that prior to Jesus' crucifixion, they didn't love their children? In the Old Testament, we read about how Sarah longed for a child through her long years of infertility, and was overjoyed to have and nurse Isaac. Rebecca had a difficult pregnancy, as her twins were fighting in the womb. Then, we read about Rachel and Leah. Rachel wanted children more than anything! These women also clearly desired their husband, as Leah was desperate for Jacob's love and traded away mandrakes to Rachel in exchange for a night with her husband. The tragic irony, of course, was that Rachel, who so longed for children, would die in childbirth when Benjamin was born. Later on, in I Samuel, Hannah is desperate for a child and fervently prays at the temple in Shiloh. She then gives birth to the prophet Samuel.

Clearly, conception, pregnancy and birth were not easy for these great women! They longed for children, but it was difficult, and in the case of Rachel, it ultimately killed her. Yet, despite the hardship and danger of giving birth, these women still desired their husbands and conceived despite the risks. It only makes sense that sexual desire for the husband was part of the curse, because otherwise women would simply avoid marriage and childbirth.

Lori replied:

I will never forget sitting around a table at lunchtime with a bunch of teachers. I was a new teacher at the time pregnant with my first child. The question was asked if they could have children all over again, would they. Every single one of them said No, they would not have children again because of the heartbreak their children were to them. Raising children without firm discipline and a godly foundation usually ends with rebellion. I don't agree with your interpretation, Cynthia. We will have to agree to disagree yet again.

I call bullshit on that story, but it highlights how very much Lori DOES NOT like children.

[twin2]

Generally speaking i call bullshit on 99.9% of the anecdotal stories these Titus2 goddess shill out.....

[lizziesmom]

Her comment is way to similar to a friend of mine who said she would absolutely disown her child(ren) if either came out as gay or lesbian. I understand that sometimes children can cause heartbreak but I do not understand that dogmatic viewpoint or Lori's Jebus position.

[kpmom]

I didn't know Lori was a teacher once upon a time. Poor students!

Lori, loving your kids only when they do what you think they should do is not love at all. That's not what your savior taught.

[2xx1xy1JD]

She really seems to encounter some particularly nasty and dysfunctional families, doesn't she?

Look, I see my share of folks that are screwed up - but that's because of my job. Even so, I don't think that even in my child protection cases would I find that "most" women would rather not have had their children. In my experience, even mothers who were struggling and often making poor choices or getting frustrated generally still loved their kids.

She's gone on and on about her she and Ken were both raised by good Christian families (even if she blames her mother for not being submissive), and it sounds like she's always been involved in the Christian community. She's not the sort to do outreach to folks that are truly deprived. So, who ARE these people - these wives who are all out of control, these mothers who all hate their children, these husbands who have no ability or desire to care for their own babies?

Honestly, if I didn't know that decent Christian families exist, her blog would convince me that Christian families must all hate each other. I won't pretend that everyone I know IRL is always happy, but people generally enjoy their families - even though most of us aren't Christian.

[constantgardener]

That is just such a twisted way of looking at it. Surely, if her children don't turn out the way she hoped, she should be looking at her parenting and where she went wrong - not blaming the kids and wishing they hadn't been born. Turning it round, if my kids grew up to be like Lori, I'd be really worried I'd made a huge mistake somewhere.

[SPHASH]

OMG Lori was a teacher?

[sparkles]

I hope each and every one of Lori's kids does a complete 180 from the way they were raised.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Question for any Christian posters - is Lori's take on Eve's Curse taught anywhere, or is she just making it up? I've never, ever heard this before.

I just know the traditional Jewish interpretation, which is pretty much the exact opposite of what Lori says. In my sources, "sorrow" refers to pain in pregnancy and childbirth. These sources go on to say that the commandment to be fruitful and multiply was actually given to only the men, since women have a natural desire to have children despite the pain and risk involved. Desire means sexual desire for the husband, which some sources adding that women also became more naturally modest so that they'd have trouble telling their husbands straight up that they wanted sex. [Yes, some of the sources are a stretch and a few are even a bit goofy - my point is just that there are traditional sources that look at this stuff and unlike Lori, conclude that women want sex and babies.] Not much point in arguing it with Lori, since she obviously doesn't recognize my sources.

[ILoveJellybeans]

She shouldn't have had children in the first place. She isn't a good mother and she cant separate her kink from her parenting

[dora]

Weird that Cynthia comes at her with biblical evidence, and she negates it with a story of some women at lunch.

[docmom]

I'd be upset if my children turned out to be right wing fundie nuts, but I'd still love them. I can't imagine wishing they hadn't been born. And I'm a godless working mother who isn't the least bit submissive. What happened to "children are a blessing"?

I can imagine wishing I hadn't been born if I were one of Lori's children, though. Maybe that's what she's talking about.

[Micah]

Motherhood is hard for me. I've wholeheartedly come to the conclusion that I'm just not natural mother material. BUT if I had a chance to go back and not have my son, would I take it? No way, no how! What a disgusting statement from Lori!

I completely cut off a friend of a friend after he stated that he would shoot his infant son in the head there and then if it could be proven that he would grow up gay. I tried to argue with him, asking how he could say that while looking at his sleeping son and did he really mean it. He said he did. That was me done. I don't care what my son grows up to be, I'll love him. That's what parents are SUPPOSED to do. How are there all these parents out there without a trace of natural instinct? It's mind boggling.

[darkplumaged]

I completely cut off a friend of a friend after he stated that he would shoot his infant son in the head there and then if it could be proven that he would grow up gay.

:pink-shock:

... and I'm worried that I am not a good enough person to properly parent my child-to-be?

As for Lori, she's only interested in her own Biblical evidence--you know, whatever she can dig up that justifies her either being an asshole or Ken's doormat. Anything else is irrelevant.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Motherhood is hard for me. I've wholeheartedly come to the conclusion that I'm just not natural mother material. BUT if I had a chance to go back and not have my son, would I take it? No way, no how! What a disgusting statement from Lori!

I completely cut off a friend of a friend after he stated that he would shoot his infant son in the head there and then if it could be proven that he would grow up gay. I tried to argue with him, asking how he could say that while looking at his sleeping son and did he really mean it. He said he did. That was me done. I don't care what my son grows up to be, I'll love him. That's what parents are SUPPOSED to do. How are there all these parents out there without a trace of natural instinct? It's mind boggling.

Holy crap that's awful :o

He would murder his own baby because of something so small as who that child could grow up to love. They don't deserve to be a parent.

[Loveday]

She really seems to encounter some particularly nasty and dysfunctional families, doesn't she?

Look, I see my share of folks that are screwed up - but that's because of my job. Even so, I don't think that even in my child protection cases would I find that "most" women would rather not have had their children. In my experience, even mothers who were struggling and often making poor choices or getting frustrated generally still loved their kids.

She's gone on and on about her she and Ken were both raised by good Christian families (even if she blames her mother for not being submissive), and it sounds like she's always been involved in the Christian community. She's not the sort to do outreach to folks that are truly deprived. So, who ARE these people - these wives who are all out of control, these mothers who all hate their children, these husbands who have no ability or desire to care for their own babies?

Honestly, if I didn't know that decent Christian families exist, her blog would convince me that Christian families must all hate each other. I won't pretend that everyone I know IRL is always happy, but people generally enjoy their families - even though most of us aren't Christian.

The bolded. They seem to be surrounded wherever they go by hordes of these people. If I were Ken and Lori, I think I'd move! :o

[Loveday]

Question for any Christian posters - is Lori's take on Eve's Curse taught anywhere, or is she just making it up? I've never, ever heard this before.

I just know the traditional Jewish interpretation, which is pretty much the exact opposite of what Lori says. In my sources, "sorrow" refers to pain in pregnancy and childbirth. These sources go on to say that the commandment to be fruitful and multiply was actually given to only the men, since women have a natural desire to have children despite the pain and risk involved. Desire means sexual desire for the husband, which some sources adding that women also became more naturally modest so that they'd have trouble telling their husbands straight up that they wanted sex. [Yes, some of the sources are a stretch and a few are even a bit goofy - my point is just that there are traditional sources that look at this stuff and unlike Lori, conclude that women want sex and babies.] Not much point in arguing it with Lori, since she obviously doesn't recognize my sources.

I have NEVER heard of Lori's take on Eve's Curse. I can't even figure out how she managed to GET to that interpretation, the convolutions it must have taken her have got to have been physically painful to her brain. :?

[August]

Strange, I don't know anyone IRL who was raised by abusive fundie parents, and yet most of them are decent people. How could that be?

[Arete]

I have NEVER heard of Lori's take on Eve's Curse. I can't even figure out how she managed to GET to that interpretation, the convolutions it must have taken her have got to have been physically painful to her brain. :?

Same here. I have never heard anything close to Lori's interpretation of God's admonishment to Eve. Sorrow meant pain in childbirth, women were going to be attracted to their husbands.

Lori Alexander is a monster who hates her own children.

[kaetrin]

I have heard pretty consistently in fundie/evangelical circles that "desire" means "desire to be in charge" but never that "sorrow" means "aversion to child-rearing".

[salex]

The bolded. They seem to be surrounded wherever they go by hordes of these people. If I were Ken and Lori, I think I'd move! :o

Birds of a feather flock together, perhaps? They know nasty, evil miserable people because that is who they are and what they like.

[salex]

I personally just wish that Lori's mother would not have had children.

[lamariposa]

Gross. But unfortunately I've heard this sentiment before in regards to children. And once in regards to a husband during a funeral. The widow 'gave word' at his funeral and was very fire and brimstone about how she rather have her husband dead in a coffin than if he'd fallen into the sin of adultery. It's true that a lot of things are said in grief but she was always very Lori-ish in her ways so I just remember being appalled.

[Kailash]

My 8 year old asked me how it was it was that parents could love all their kids equally, especially if one of them was very naughty. I told her that no matter what she ever did or how she ever behaved my love for her would never change. She said "I find that very hard to believe." I don't expect an 8 year old to understand. I do expect a parent to understand, though.

[CelticGoddess]

I hope each and every one of Lori's kids does a complete 180 from the way they were raised.

I firmly believe that Lori's words will come back to bite her in the ass. It might only be one, but it will be the one who is most able to care for her in her dotage. One day, Lori will need that child and that child will say "fuck you mom" for the way she treated them growing up and all the bullshit she spewed over the years.