Michael Bates Courting!

[bookiewookie]

A couple in Alabama just named their newborn son Krimson Tyde. RJ should add Krimson to the list for upcoming babies.

I know someone in Alabama who named their daughter Crimzyn. Seriously. :pink-shock:

[Guest]

I don't think still, but even if not, it's still a great match from an ATI perspective because John is a politician's son, and thus has connections that ATI can use.

The father gave a speech at an ATI conference that ended up on YouTube, so there must be some sort of ties somewhere. An opponent then used that speech to create a commercial in which he nicknamed Webster "Taliban Dan," which I find creative. Still, it scares me to no end that a) people still elected him, b) he's in the US Congress, and c) poor Alyssa is marrying into this family.

Anyway, there isn't as much public information linking the Websters to ATI, but I figure that has less to do with their involvement and more to do with worries about dad's political career.

[boxedin]

Are the Websters ATI? I didn't know that there were successful ATI politicians (JimBob Duggar doesn't really count).

I guess the way I look at it... The kids are out of school, so not homeschoolers. They have and I think may continue to attend ATI sponsored activities... Missions, journeys etc... They still associate with ATI families.

The family was definitely ATI in the early part of his political career. He sponsored a homeschooling law in Florida and that was when they became ATI homeschoolers.

You don't have to be an ATI family to attend ATI activities. So at very least ATI associated...

[sunshine]

I'm thinking Gothard may have had a hand in these relationships (except Zach and Whitney), since Gil is on the Board of Directors. Aren't the Paines, Websters, and Keilenes ATI royalty or close to it?

Kelly mentioned in her blog that Gothard was an encouragement in their courtship, so it is very possible. I guess he is no different than an average matchmaker. I'm sure JB would not have that.

It is said on various blogs that he is strict when it comes to courtship. If so, I believe it (being strict) could be a product of his childhood. His dad was in debt, mom had to pitch in to save the family, he preferred to purchase the cheapest casket possible for him, not a devout christian etc. He should give forgive his dad and move on.

[boxedin]

I think he will do whatever it is that David Waller does.

I'm not here a lot... but here is a video where Chad met Erin and Brandon met Michael.

The Bates blog about meeting the Paines at this party. I guess Brandon had a lot to do with the play.

chadsperspective.blogspot.co.nz/2011/02/valentines-slideshow_13.html

I should give credit to the bates family photos tumbler for finding the video.

I don't actually know if Michael and Brandon met there. I assume they were there. Michael might have been watching babies :(

[lilith]

I should give credit to the bates family photos tumbler for finding the video.

I don't actually know if Michael and Brandon met there. I assume they were there. Michael might have been watching babies :(

She's sitting with the little kids playing some sort of board or card game in one of the pics.

I can't get over Davey in his Robin Hood cap.

[boxedin]

She's sitting with the little kids playing some sort of board or card game in one of the pics.

I can't get over Davey in his Robin Hood cap.

lol I was just looking for her in that picture. she could be the one in the background on a couch feeding a baby....?

[boxedin]

4The Gil & Kelly Bates Family » Valentine’s Banquet

"[...] The staff at IBLP ministry decorated with a medieval, “knight and shining armor†theme, under Brandon Keilen’s creative leadership. The servers wore outfits characteristic of that time period. The menu, designed and prepared by Clayton Reedstrom, was exceptional! Many other homeschooled students/staff assisted in making this an incredibly special evening! Our family was able to sing and the staff sang a beautiful song written and arranged by Becky Keilen. (All Photography courtesy of Chad Paine & other IBLP staff. More photos available at 12paines.com/2011/02/15/an-evening-with-the-bates) [...]"

This comment was on Chad's blog. At least we know that Miss Kelly noticed Brandon. I think that he is probably a very accomplished young man. There is a book that was illustrated by a Brandon Keilen and it has a review by Bill Gothard, so I would say it is our Brandon.

[boxedin]

4The Gil & Kelly Bates Family » Valentine’s Banquet

"[...] The staff at IBLP ministry decorated with a medieval, “knight and shining armor†theme, under Brandon Keilen’s creative leadership. The servers wore outfits characteristic of that time period. The menu, designed and prepared by Clayton Reedstrom, was exceptional! Many other homeschooled students/staff assisted in making this an incredibly special evening! Our family was able to sing and the staff sang a beautiful song written and arranged by Becky Keilen. (All Photography courtesy of Chad Paine & other IBLP staff. More photos available at 12paines.com/2011/02/15/an-evening-with-the-bates) [...]"

This comment was on Chad's blog. At least we know that Miss Kelly noticed Brandon. I think that he is probably a very accomplished young man. There is a book that was illustrated by a Brandon Keilen and it has a review by Bill Gothard, so I would say it is our Brandon.

edit:

The book is called "The Keeper of the Glass Slipper"

[Kelsey]

Kelly's posted some (more) comments. Seems Michael always wanted a small wedding- not shocking since she is shy. BUT, Brandon wants a larger one. Will be interesting to see who "wins."

Also, Michael gave Kelly the okay to post the story and pics. She was even able to proof-read the post before Kelly posted it.

On more thing, finally courtship pics without the Bates parents being involved. Looks like Michael traveled without a chaperone too!

[sunshine]

Kelly's posted some (more) comments. Seems Michael always wanted a small wedding- not shocking since she is shy. BUT, Brandon wants a larger one. Will be interesting to see who "wins."

Also, Michael gave Kelly the okay to post the story and pics. She was even able to proof-read the post before Kelly posted it.

On more thing, finally courtship pics without the Bates parents being involved. Looks like Michael traveled without a chaperone too!

Awww, they growup so fast. :cracking-up: :dance: :clap: With the fact that she is 24, she is grown adult and accountable to her own actions. Bravo, Bates.

[silverspoons]

Are the Websters ATI? I didn't know that there were successful ATI politicians (JimBob Duggar doesn't really count).

Isn't the state of FL (schools and government) pretty immersed in Gothard's teachings? I know the public school system was using the character quality teaching in the classroom a few years ago (not sure if it is still going on), and some state employee were forced to go through Gothard training. I remember reading the story of a FL state social worker who was forced to take Gothard seminars and was ready to quit her job. The fees the state of FL was paying Gothard to use his phamlets and seminars was a big chunk of change. Some elected officials in FL had to have been big into ATI.

I know after I read about this, I went to the curriculum closet at our school district (in Utah) and found Gothard materials. I asked and the district assured me they had never been used but had been purchased and were available as a resource.

[medievalist1980]

Kelly's posted some (more) comments. Seems Michael always wanted a small wedding- not shocking since she is shy. BUT, Brandon wants a larger one. Will be interesting to see who "wins."

Also, Michael gave Kelly the okay to post the story and pics. She was even able to proof-read the post before Kelly posted it.

On more thing, finally courtship pics without the Bates parents being involved. Looks like Michael traveled without a chaperone too!

While I get that the patriarchy is all about a woman denying her likes, etc, it is potential issues like this - they will have a big wedding to please Brandon - are why I don't feel happy for Michaela. I don't think this is what she wants, but it is what she thinks she should do. I continue to believe she looked uncomfortable in the courting pics.

[Kelsey]

Isn't the state of FL (schools and government) pretty immersed in Gothard's teachings? I know the public school system was using the character quality teaching in the classroom a few years ago (not sure if it is still going on), and some state employee were forced to go through Gothard training. I remember reading the story of a FL state social worker who was forced to take Gothard seminars and was ready to quit her job. The fees the state of FL was paying Gothard to use his phamlets and seminars was a big chunk of change. Some elected officials in FL had to have been big into ATI.

I know after I read about this, I went to the curriculum closet at our school district (in Utah) and found Gothard materials. I asked and the district assured me they had never been used but had been purchased and were available as a resource.

I'm from Florida. I attended public school and have a degree in Elem Ed from a state university. I have never seen any Gothard books or materials, as a student or intern. Might you be talking about a particular part of the state? In general South Florida and the West Coast of Florida (say Pasco County=ish on down) is not religious/rural. Some parts of North and Central FL are more rural and more devout, excluding perhaps the (relatively) liberal Tallahassee.

[moreorlessnu]

I continue to believe she looked uncomfortable in the courting pics.

I'm hoping this is because she's shy and isn't comfortable being at the center of attention.

[Mela99]

Maybe tiny ceremony and bigger reception?

[Ellimenopy]

I'm hoping this is because she's shy and isn't comfortable being at the center of attention.

I believe this is true. I look uncomfortable in a lot of my own wedding photos because I just hated being the center of attention. I couldn't wander off to breathe by myself because everyone wanted to talk to me and everyone wanted a photo. I *look* miserable in some of the pictures, but I was very very comfortable with my husband and even my wedding. Just overwhelmed and tired from the stress of it all. I don't think we can make any judgments about how Micheal feels about herself or her beau just because of her pictures. I think that's unfair.

[Arete]

Maybe tiny ceremony and bigger reception?

Couples raised outside these systems come in with different expectations and find compromises like the one you are suggesting. But these two people have been raised on ATI Kool-Aid. Which means it can't be assumed she won't table her own wants and just defer to his. Even if he meets her part way, it will be considered a magnanimous act on his part, not something he would be expected to do as a member of an equal partnership.

[sophrosyne]

Am I right to remember that within the past couple of years Michael spent some time with a family in the midwest, 'helping'? Was this the Keilens? If I'm remembering right, there was a grandma involved. Maybe there was a Bates blog post about it too.

[medievalist1980]

I believe this is true. I look uncomfortable in a lot of my own wedding photos because I just hated being the center of attention. I couldn't wander off to breathe by myself because everyone wanted to talk to me and everyone wanted a photo. I *look* miserable in some of the pictures, but I was very very comfortable with my husband and even my wedding. Just overwhelmed and tired from the stress of it all. I don't think we can make any judgments about how Micheal feels about herself or her beau just because of her pictures. I think that's unfair.

Eh, all we do is make judgements about people ;) Basically, I'm worried that Michaela is marrying someone who is over the top/big dramatic gestures/center of attention, because she feels she should get married or her mom set it up. Now, we all know opposites can attract and maybe that is it, but if Michaela is so shy ... I just don't feel like he supports her shyness. Instead, it is all about him.

I guess I'm the doom and gloomer of this thread. I can live with that.

[Closed Womb]

While I get that the patriarchy is all about a woman denying her likes, etc, it is potential issues like this - they will have a big wedding to please Brandon - are why I don't feel happy for Michaela. I don't think this is what she wants, but it is what she thinks she should do. I continue to believe she looked uncomfortable in the courting pics.

If they get married, it's going to be impossible to really know who "won" the battle of the wedding (unless it is an Erin and Chad open invite type affair, then Brandon clearly won.) I had about 30 people at my wedding and thought it was "small". I would have thought of 100 people as a big wedding. I'm guessing that with 26 siblings between them, 100 people at Michael and Brandon's wedding (if there is one) would be some bare-minimum, lots-of-people-insulted-at-not-being-invited*, tiny wedding.

*See Creepy Rodrigues Family

[BullyJBG]

That's what I thought Michaela would always want in a wedding; just both sets of parents and siblings. Which would add up to about, say, 40-50 people. Maybe a bit more if they're urged to invite the pastor's whole family, lol. But we'll see what happens. If the Keilens were at Erin and Chad's wedding, they would know all about that; and at least Becky was.

[boxedin]

BullyJBG,

Brandon escorted Kelly down the aisle at Erin's wedding. Becky was a bridesmaid.

[singsingsing]

She doesn't look uncomfortable at all in these photos to me, which is actually surprising - I'm far less shy than she is supposed to be, but if someone were photographing me right after I'd started dating a guy I was really into, I'd look extremely uncomfortable! If you look at the pictures, she's smiling, she leaning toward him. Even more telling is that the ones in which she looks MOST happy and relaxed are the ones in which she's looking at him, not at the camera.

But basically, it's so difficult to judge crap like this from photos. Especially if the person in question is more reserved in general. How many wedding photo are out there where the bride looks totally laid back, thrilled, overjoyed - and a year later she's divorced? My parents look like that in their wedding photos, and their relationship turned out to be miserable. My grandparents both look less than thrilled in theirs, and they've been happily married for over fifty years and are still in love.

[boxedin]

Ok, I may have a problem.... I just took the "know your Bates" quiz on the United Bates of America web site. And I got about an 80%.

I had to go on Wikipedia as well. They spell her nickname Michaella as well.

Guess who are called Bert and Ernie because of their close relationship.

Guess who are also called Willie and Kenny.

The things I do not know....