Jahi McMath case in California

[starfish]

Yes, this is what I had read would be happening to her brain. I didn't want to say it without a link to back it up as it's very disturbing. Thank you.

Reading that information again makes me think that the mother really needs someone to stand up to her, for her own good and the good and dignity of Jahi's body, and tell her she cannot continue this. Horrifically painful as it would be, she needs to be stopped. Why everyone around her is insisting on indulging her delusions I don't understand. She believes something that is not true, not something that requires faith or something that might become true, something that is flat out false. Its almost cruel to not disabuse her of that, or if that's not possible take the actions that she cannot.

Speaking of that, what is the law here? Can only Jahi's mother turn off her ventilator at this point? If another relative did it, would Jahi's mother be able to sue them?

I wonder if Jahi has a dad. I've not seen one mention of him, so I guess he's not in her life.

I think the mom's entire family is whack. Her mother (Jahi's grandmother) sits by her in the hourly press conferences.

But you are correct---she needs to be stopped. Everyone around her is enabling this circus.

[Cone]

I wonder if Jahi has a dad. I've not seen one mention of him, so I guess he's not in her life.

I think the mom's entire family is whack. Her mother (Jahi's grandmother) sits by her in the hourly press conferences.

But you are correct---she needs to be stopped. Everyone around her is enabling this circus.

The mother is currently married but I assume it's a stepdad since Jahi has a different last name.

[starfish]

I've heard Mr. Winkfield identified as Jahi's mom's husband and her step-dad.

[bucherwurm]

Thanks for trying to explain things everyone. Science isn't my strong suit. Our bodies work in weird ways.

[starfish]

This. That anyone would encourage her in the delusion is horrible. The hospital was trying to bring her to reality and that should have been encouraged rather than vilified. Anyone who has participated in what has basically been desecrating a corpse should be ashamed.

I read reports that "faith leaders" in the area had rallied around Jahi's mom and were demanding "sensitivity" training for the doctors and staff at the hospital where Jahi was treated. The faith leaders were especially angry that one of the pediatricians had said that Jahi was "dead, dead, dead" in their conversations with the family. Usually I think sensitivity training doesn't really hurt anyone, but in this case it is insulting to the doctors to suggest they use any other words to describe Jahi's condition. Good grief.

[twinmama]

I would guess that doctors probably DID start out by being very sensitive and breaking news gently but when her mother continued to wrongly believe she was alive and could recover the doctors started being more realistic and using harsher terms to get their point across. It's not really insensitive IMO, the most sensitive thing they can do is help her mother to realize that she is gone.

[Coconut Flan]

Perhaps the "faith leaders" need some reality therapy and basic medical information.

[Stephanie66]

Perhaps he should have said, "Dead, deceased, croaked, checked out, ceased to be, expired, faded away, fallen off the perch, kicked the bucket, went to meet Whitney, no longer with us, on a permanent vacation, perished, passed away, entered a better world, God took her, gone home, gone to heaven, is with the angels, is feeling no pain, her hour has come, she has slipped away, she has had a negative patient care outcome." Instead of "Dead Dead Dead."

[happy atheist]

Perhaps he should have said, "Dead, deceased, croaked, checked out, ceased to be, expired, faded away, fallen off the perch, kicked the bucket, went to meet Whitney, no longer with us, on a permanent vacation, perished, passed away, entered a better world, God took her, gone home, gone to heaven, is with the angels, is feeling no pain, her hour has come, she has slipped away, she has had a negative patient care outcome." Instead of "Dead Dead Dead."

She's pining for the fjords.

[sparkles]

She's pining for the fjords.

You beat me to it.

I think one of the reasons this case bothers me so much is because my family went through a somewhat similar, but reversed situation with my grandmother. She had started experiencing pain and eventually went to the doctor for tests. She then asked my father and aunt to accompany her for a follow-up appointment and gave strict instructions to the doctor that if anything major was wrong and couldn't be fixed, under no circumstances was he to let her know. He could talk openly to my father and aunt but not to her. Further, everyone in the family also got the same instructions--whatever was wrong, she was to be kept in the dark. I have no idea why the doctor went along with this, but he did. So instead of telling her that she had pancreatic cancer, he told her she had some kind of infection (I don't remember what), gave her pills (I'm assuming they were painkillers) and that was that. As for the rest of us, we had to play along, pretending that Gran was having a hard time shaking off whatever she was told she had, but she looked GOOD, REALLY GOOD as she continued to wither away. It was excruciating. I'm sure on some level she knew that she was dying, WE knew she was dying, but no one could acknowledge it. When she died (three months to the day the doctors told my dad and aunt that she had a 3-month prognosis), it actually came as a huge shock to us all, since we had to pretend all along that she was okay. It took a long time for me to stop being angry at her--irrational maybe, but there it was. If we had been able to be honest about the situation, it's not like it every visit would have been doom-and-gloom; instead we could have had a chance to share happy times and memories and say a proper goodbye, something all of us, including my grandmother, were denied.

I really to believe that once Jahi's mom has a chance to process what's happened, she may feel similar anger that no one forced her to confront the situation earlier so she could say a proper goodbye to her beloved daughter instead of watching her rot from the inside out. Anger that she was taken advantage of. Anger that her child death was turned into a circus. Anger that the vultures started circling her daughter's body as soon as they smelled money.

[Stephanie66]

OMG...a dead little girl has become a Monty Python skit. I almost didn't put that one in but it made me laugh, so...

[Black Aliss]

She's pining for the fjords.

And joined the choir invisible!

[CrazyCatLady]

My husband always lovingly calls death "the big sleep"

[Stephanie66]

Bought the farm, belly up, bought the pine condo, kicked the bucket, worm food, snuffed out, Paid Charon's fare, pushing daisies, checked out, crossed the River Styx.

[keen23]

Shuffled off to Buffalo.

Assumed room temperature.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

One of the more painful things to read in passing in the long long thread of comments on the "Trials and Tribulations" blog linked earlier in this thread (excellent link, btw) was that Jahi has... siblings.

A commenter wondered just how the mother's mental state was and is surely affecting THEM. I just cannot imagine.

[twinmama]

I hope for the siblings sake that Jahi is in a facility someplace and not at home somehow. And I hope that they are going to receive counseling after this is all over. First, they lost a sibling. That alone should receive some counseling. Second, this whole horrible rigmarole. I can't even imagine. They need their MOTHER right now, and father if he is in the picture; but she is busy with all of this.

Do you think her mother has had an actual mental break of some kind? I know that losing a child is a pain beyond anything else (not that I have experienced it thank god), but TONS of people sadly lose their children and 99% of them do not enter this level of denial.

[salex]

I hope for the siblings sake that Jahi is in a facility someplace and not at home somehow. And I hope that they are going to receive counseling after this is all over. First, they lost a sibling. That alone should receive some counseling. Second, this whole horrible rigmarole. I can't even imagine. They need their MOTHER right now, and father if he is in the picture; but she is busy with all of this.

Do you think her mother has had an actual mental break of some kind? I know that losing a child is a pain beyond anything else (not that I have experienced it thank god), but TONS of people sadly lose their children and 99% of them do not enter this level of denial.

I am no longer sure what the mother's motivation is. She has to be seeing that her daughter's condition is not something she will "come back from". I have about written off the Uncle and the attorney as money grubbing users who love the spotlight. But I'm not convinced the family will really get anything out of this beyond whatever donations they are getting (they have multiple sites and methods to donate) because I'm not sure they will win much/any on a malpractice suit, at this point. The attorney wants to change some laws, so he can make more money later, so his motives are prtty clear. Whatever the local support she has (friends, family, ministers) are saying or doing it may be that anyone who has given her an honest opinion has been ignored or rejected. But I just don't get it.

[bionicmlle]

You beat me to it.

I think one of the reasons this case bothers me so much is because my family went through a somewhat similar, but reversed situation with my grandmother. She had started experiencing pain and eventually went to the doctor for tests. She then asked my father and aunt to accompany her for a follow-up appointment and gave strict instructions to the doctor that if anything major was wrong and couldn't be fixed, under no circumstances was he to let her know. He could talk openly to my father and aunt but not to her. Further, everyone in the family also got the same instructions--whatever was wrong, she was to be kept in the dark. I have no idea why the doctor went along with this, but he did. So instead of telling her that she had pancreatic cancer, he told her she had some kind of infection (I don't remember what), gave her pills (I'm assuming they were painkillers) and that was that. As for the rest of us, we had to play along, pretending that Gran was having a hard time shaking off whatever she was told she had, but she looked GOOD, REALLY GOOD as she continued to wither away. It was excruciating. I'm sure on some level she knew that she was dying, WE knew she was dying, but no one could acknowledge it. When she died (three months to the day the doctors told my dad and aunt that she had a 3-month prognosis), it actually came as a huge shock to us all, since we had to pretend all along that she was okay. It took a long time for me to stop being angry at her--irrational maybe, but there it was. If we had been able to be honest about the situation, it's not like it every visit would have been doom-and-gloom; instead we could have had a chance to share happy times and memories and say a proper goodbye, something all of us, including my grandmother, were denied.

I really to believe that once Jahi's mom has a chance to process what's happened, she may feel similar anger that no one forced her to confront the situation earlier so she could say a proper goodbye to her beloved daughter instead of watching her rot from the inside out. Anger that she was taken advantage of. Anger that her child death was turned into a circus. Anger that the vultures started circling her daughter's body as soon as they smelled money.

Sparkles, ITA. Someday, this mother is going to be really pissed... And not at the doctors. I can see why her anger was with them, initially. That's a natural reaction even if you just take your loved one to the ER - to have anger at the person who gave you the news - but she will discover that her anger was misdirected, that she frittered away an opportunity to say a quiet goodbye and give her daughter dignity. Although it is painful, I hope she realizes some of this anger lies directly with herself.

[bionicmlle]

Oh and I also read (in SF Chronicle I think) that she is at a "Catholic facility."

[Stephanie66]

I don't know why I thought Jahi was an only child?

If she has a biological father who has not lost custody, this would be the time to show up. Well, a month ago would have been the time, but...now will be good.

[susanread]

I thought she was an only child too. I'm not sure of their ages, but no matter what they are, the siblings must be feeling so confused and devastated. Hopefully they can get the help they need, because I don't see their mother being able to provide it for a while.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I only saw a reference to siblings in a comment, so I'm not sure how accurate it was. But the concept did disturb me, as the comment was asking (and it's a great question) if Mom is (at least temporarily) actually UNABLE to deal with any of this at all rationally right now (as opposed to unwilling), if she's actually incapacitated to that extent, what is it doing to the other kids?

Because yeah. Death of a sibling is horrible enough, but this would be even more on top of that.

[Coconut Flan]

I saw a picture on one of the articles with at least one sister and a step-sister.

[silverspoons]

The longer this drags on if she does have siblings they will not only have lost a sibling but will be missing out on their own lives.

My parents were friends with a very devout large catholic family when I was young. They had a son who tragically as a preschooler fell into a pool (while dressed in church clothes and shoes, I believe it was during the first communion party of his older sister). He was given CPR, but was brain dead. They brought him home with a full time live in medical care. I remember peeking into the room and being scared of all the machines and how sickly the boy looked. 3 years later he passed away. I remember meeting one of his sisters years later and even though she was still a devout catholic, she had a lot of resentment about the 3 years of her life that she felt she lost. During those 3 years the family went on no vacations, the kids didn't play sports, go to dances, all the energy and resources went to keeping the brother alive.

I'm glad my mom had the strength to turn life support off on my dad. For us it was a shock because my parents had just return from their dream vacation so my dad was tan, happy and in great shape. The hospital thought he might have a blood clot because he had a sharp pain in his leg and had just leg on a long flight. They gave him a shot of TPA and that was it. My father had vascular EDS and he had massive irreversible bleeding. Even some of the nurses standing there were shocked that my dad was sitting there telling jokes full of life and then a moment later was gone. After consulting many doctors over a few days, we understood there was no chance at all for any recovery. My father had excellent insurance and resources and my mom was offered a trach and feeding tube but we decided against it. I remember it was about day 6, my dad didn't seem like dad anymore. At first because he was tan from the vacation, he just looked like he was sleeping. The scary part because his brainstem was damaged was his blood pressure would take huge drops and then go high. There were constant buzzers and crisis. He started to get pale and his skin would bruise so easily. I remember the nurse went to bathe my dad and his skin started to bruise and bleed and I left the room crying "don't hurt my daddy". I knew my father could not be kept alive like this. the hospital actually made us wait till day 7(after the had all sorts of documention and tests) to remove life support. It took about 15 for all monitors to go flat. My father was a pretty devout catholic but had made his wishes known. Oddly at the time of his death, one of the LDS quorum of the 12 was with my dad. My father had done some volunteer work with the LDS church(or scouts). I remember this quorum member (which is the LDS equivalent to an apostle) said he was so proud of me for being so brave and letting my father go. It fascinates me how different faiths have such different views on end of life issues.