Jahi McMath case in California

[Alice_Fraggle]

No one who has met the criteria for brain death has ever survived -- no one. It can be difficult to predict a person's outcome after a severe brain injury, but it can be said with certainty that a brain dead individual is dead, the same as if their heart was not beating.

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/02/nobody-declared-brain-dead-ever-wakes-up-feeling-pretty-good/253315/

I know that, you know that, the Mom probably even knows that, but I have a feeling that the "lawyer" only sees $$$ and is blinded by all the rest. I wonder who is feeding the mom the "full recovery" bullshit! Also - I wish someone would correct the media that it WASN'T a "simple tonsillectomy"! That is a blatant lie and needs to stop because that's what is making people blame the hospital. No one at the hospital is to blame for this, but the media keeps making it seem like Jahi was in 100% perfect health and that's just not the case!

[starfish]

Money, money, money. The uncle said something like they are looking for in the neighborhood of $200 M in a lawsuit. It's shameful.

They can ask all they want, but California has caps on at least pain and suffering. That law was signed years ago by a very young Gov. Jerry Brown, who felt that money was a false god, and people should just use drugs to cope with their grief.

I believe the cap is $250,000.

[heidi]

My heart breaks for her mother. She's clearly in denial and needs someone to take her away from the media circus and the lawyers so she can wrap her head around her daughter's death and begin to grieve.

[starfish]

How do we know Jahi got SSI? And yes, she's dead, and there is a death certificate, which will be filed with social security. If they don't already know.

I guess I am wondering who is paying for it? Obviously not MedCal or private insurance because she's dead. Obviously not her mom, if Jahi was poor enough for SSI. So are they seriously going to raise enough funds from the pro- life crowd to keep her on a ventilator and round the clock clean-up of waste for a few weeks until her heart stops?

ETA: it is my understanding that her digestive system will not work, so inserting a feeding tube will only be like a funnel...unless the bowel has already...I don't know how to put that delicately. Inserting a feeding tube is not going to be pretty.

I do not know for sure she received SSI, but I have learned never to doubt money as a money for anything. For anything.

I have heard she had insurance, but I also read it was Medicaid.

As far as the pragmatics go, I know this family is mourning, but they are seriously out of touch with basic reality, not to mention biology. They are, frankly, stupid to a level I'm only used to seeing with fundies. (Jim Bob's defense of the creationism museum comes to mind).

I heard that have raised approximately $50,000 on a fund raising site...pretty sure that money has already been spent. They don't know or care how they will pay for the "treatment" of this body.

That's why I can envision them sitting up Jahi's corpse in a corner, saying how good she looks today, and then cashing her SSI checks assuming they are still getting them, and then calling their local congressman to demand why they haven't been receiving them.

Of course, it's completely possible money pays no motive, and they are just seriously mentally challenged, living in denial, suffering from PTSD, and being indulged along the way by a bunch of charlatans.

[doggie]

This does seem to be a legal move for money but who knows? maybe they are making a new GOP senator.

[gustava]

I do not know for sure she received SSI, but I have learned never to doubt money as a money for anything. For anything.

I have heard she had insurance, but I also read it was Medicaid.

As far as the pragmatics go, I know this family is mourning, but they are seriously out of touch with basic reality, not to mention biology. They are, frankly, stupid to a level I'm only used to seeing with fundies. (Jim Bob's defense of the creationism museum comes to mind).

I heard that have raised approximately $50,000 on a fund raising site...pretty sure that money has already been spent. They don't know or care how they will pay for the "treatment" of this body.

That's why I can envision them sitting up Jahi's corpse in a corner, saying how good she looks today, and then cashing her SSI checks assuming they are still getting them, and then calling their local congressman to demand why they haven't been receiving them.

Of course, it's completely possible money pays no motive, and they are just seriously mentally challenged, living in denial, suffering from PTSD, and being indulged along the way by a bunch of charlatans.

I will refrain from calling you a stupid bitch, as that is probably against TOS, but if you are serious about the bolded, you make JB look intelligent.

[dilannsmom]

I feel for this mother--I can't imagine facing the loss of my daughter. But I would hope that my family loves me so much that they would NOT let me go off the deep end that way.

With that said, I do have a question--yesterday, when Jahi was released to her mother (by the coroner), it was reported by various news outlets that the mother was taking responsibility for what happened to the body (including cardiac arrest during transport). What exactly does this mean? Since she is already dead (and there is a death certificate in place), can her mother be held legally responsible for her "death" due to cardiac arrest? Or is it just the point that the mother would be ethically and morally responsible? Just looking for clarification from someone with more legal understanding than I have.

[J'ean Skirt]

I feel for this mother--I can't imagine facing the loss of my daughter. But I would hope that my family loves me so much that they would NOT let me go off the deep end that way.

With that said, I do have a question--yesterday, when Jahi was released to her mother (by the coroner), it was reported by various news outlets that the mother was taking responsibility for what happened to the body (including cardiac arrest during transport). What exactly does this mean? Since she is already dead (and there is a death certificate in place), can her mother be held legally responsible for her "death" due to cardiac arrest? Or is it just the point that the mother would be ethically and morally responsible? Just looking for clarification from someone with more legal understanding than I have.

It's just removing the legal responsibility from the Hospital and state, as I understand it. Basically, the family can't transport her, have her heart stop during transport and then come back and put the hospital on the hook for it.

[Ralar]

I will refrain from calling you a stupid bitch, as that is probably against TOS, but if you are serious about the bolded, you make JB look intelligent.

I'm not Starfish, but I did post an article a few days ago in which Jahi's mother is quoted as saying:

I'm just so happy that she is kind of a thick girl so she still looks good," Latasha Winkfield said today. "I tell her every day, 'Jahi, you losin' weight girl, but you still look good.'

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/jahi-mcmath-brain-dead-girls-mom-hospitals-feeding/story?id=21381684

Anything is possible with these people.

[Alice_Fraggle]

It's just removing the legal responsibility from the Hospital and state, as I understand it. Basically, the family can't transport her, have her heart stop during transport and then come back and put the hospital on the hook for it.

Exactly this. It's not saying the mom "caused" the brain death, just that the hospital isn't responsible for the "actual" (to her mom) death (when her heart stops).

Are there laws against desecrating a corpse? Would this be considered desecrating a corpse?

[Ralar]

Exactly this. It's not saying the mom "caused" the brain death, just that the hospital isn't responsible for the "actual" (to her mom) death (when her heart stops).

Are there laws against desecrating a corpse? Would this be considered desecrating a corpse?

On the hook for what? Nothing worse than what has already happened, can happen to Jahi. She's dead, dead, dead! It will be a blessing when her heart finally stops. Then, Jahi's mother will be forced to properly deal with her body (which is currently rotting from the inside out).

I think that language was put into the order because Jahi's mother is dumb, dumb, dumb. The Court wanted to make sure she has no option for a frivelous lawsuit resulting from the transfer of the corpse.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I think that language was put into the order because Jahi's mother is dumb, dumb, dumb. The Court wanted to make sure she has no option for a frivelous lawsuit resulting from the transfer of the corpse.

I wondered about this too ("what on earth could mom possibly need to take responsibility for?") but I think you're right - she can't actually die at this point (being already dead) so there can't be any actual charges against the mom for anything, but if the MOM sees it as a death, she might try to blame someone else, so this is CYA language.

I think the insistence on making sure the body was released to the mom via the coroner's office was done for similar reasons.

[sparkles]

Ugh, this whole mess is a real-life "Weekend at Bernie's." Only not funny. Not in the least.

Please, please, please let this poor girl rest in peace.

[Ralar]

Ugh, this whole mess is a real-life "Weekend at Bernie's." Only not funny. Not in the least.

Please, please, please let this poor girl rest in peace.

You're so right. Weekend at Bernie's, only not funny.

Now I'm going to have to see if that movie is available on NetFlix!

[ADoyle90815]

You're so right. Weekend at Bernie's, only not funny.

Now I'm going to have to see if that movie is available on NetFlix!

That's true, I thought about that, but there's nothing funny at all about this case. I do hope her heart stops so that the mom will accept that her daughter is dead, and that it's time to let her go. It's just a sad situation, as it's one thing no parent should have to go through.

[Stephanie66]

My husband said something about "Weekend At Bernie's", but then quickly said, "except they weren't trying to actually make him alive, he wasn't a child, and it was funny." Yes, this.

I wonder if Jahi's mother or her mother's mouthpiece will actually say a word when Jahi's heart really does stop?

[starfish]

I will refrain from calling you a stupid bitch, as that is probably against TOS, but if you are serious about the bolded, you make JB look intelligent.

I'm not the one making a complete and total mockery of out this poor girl's life and death. The family is doing that all by themselves. As has been already posted on this forum, the family is making some fairly strange comments. This has gone past Weekend at Bernie's and has now veered off into the Bates Motel.

[starfish]

He is in a position to help them in this terrible time but chose to squander the opportunity. He has made a mockery of the legal profession. It will indeed be interesting to see if he has to face any consequences from the California state bar.

[salex]

He is in a position to help them in this terrible time but chose to squander the opportunity. He has made a mockery of the legal profession. It will indeed be interesting to see if he has to face any consequences from the California state bar.

His website, from what I can tell. .cbdlaw.com/

Chris Dolan is one of the most widely respected trial lawyers in California. He has been selected as the Statewide Trial Lawyer of the Year by the Consumer Attorneys of California, Trial Lawyer of the Year by the San Francisco Trial Lawyers Association, received the prestigious California Lawyer Attorney of the Year (CLAY) award and has been designated as one of the Top 100 lawyers in California by the California Daily Journal and the California Super Lawyers. He was elected by his peers as the President of the Consumer Attorneys of California, the largest statewide association of trial lawyers in the United States and is rated highest in both his ethics and abilities.

Since graduating from Georgetown University Law Center, with high honors, Chris has worked tirelessly, and solely, on behalf of people who have been physically and emotionally injured by the unlawful conduct of others. Having tried over 40 cases to verdict, Chris is known to be one of the most effective and aggressive advocates in California with an outstanding record of success. He has vast experience in representing individuals against insurance companies, fortune 500 companies, governments, hospitals and product manufacturers. He established the Dolan Law Firm in 1995 and has grown the firm to be one of the largest and most successful groups of attorneys who dedicate themselves to seeking justice and fair compensation for Californians. He has achieved over $100,000,000 in verdicts and settlements for his clients. He holds the largest recorded verdict in the history of the United States civil rights movement for individual race discrimination ($61,000,000). cbdlaw.com/Attorneys/Christopher-B-Dolan.shtml

[starfish]

I heard he's a big-time med mal lawyer in the San Fran area, and he has a successful civil rights practice also. These accomplishments are to his credit, and the family obviously trusts him.

He compelled the hospital to get an outside medical expert. But once you've got the head of Stanford pediatrics agreeing

with the hospital, it seems like a good time to have a heart to heart with the family. They might listen to him. But it seems as if

he's more interested in clashing with the doctors at the hospital than seriously trying to act as counselor to the family.

He's probably just this side of the line on any ethics complaint, but what a wasted opportunity to quietly help a grieving family

come to grips with a sad situation instead of this freak show it has descended into.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

My husband said something about "Weekend At Bernie's", but then quickly said, "except they weren't trying to actually make him alive, he wasn't a child, and it was funny." Yes, this.

I wonder if Jahi's mother or her mother's mouthpiece will actually say a word when Jahi's heart really does stop?

100% honest answer, I suspect she will grieve and make some statement about how sad it is that her daughter did "finally die" or similar, implying that she thinks it's the heart stop that means real death (because that's her religious belief) but at least she got to die on her own time, or some sort of similar thing.

Although you'd think the ventilator alone might make even Mom not think "on her own time" but whatever, some statement that she was allowed to wait for the heart to stop before pulling the ventilator off and "killing" her kid.

[GawkingToo]

I heard he's a big-time med mal lawyer in the San Fran area, and he has a successful civil rights practice also. These accomplishments are to his credit, and the family obviously trusts him.

He compelled the hospital to get an outside medical expert. But once you've got the head of Stanford pediatrics agreeing

with the hospital, it seems like a good time to have a heart to heart with the family. They might listen to him. But it seems as if

he's more interested in clashing with the doctors at the hospital than seriously trying to act as counselor to the family.

He's probably just this side of the line on any ethics complaint, but what a wasted opportunity to quietly help a grieving family

come to grips with a sad situation instead of this freak show it has descended into.

If they won't listen to doctors, including outside doctors, why does everyone think they'd listen to their lawyer, who has absolutely no medical training?

Everyone keeps saying how unethical this is, but distasteful does not equal unethical. Lawyers represent all sorts of unpopular positions; that doesn't make them unethical. Please, someone specify exactly which ethics rule he has violated.

And if you're tempted to say it was by filing a frivolous lawsuit, keep in mind that 2 TROs later, it's a little harder to say that the suit was, without a doubt, completely without merit.

[bionicmlle]

That attorney is such an asshole. He is saying that families, not doctors, should determine death. For families, this is an excruciating time after the injury or illness of their loved one. It can be hell for the family member that finally makes the decision to remove life support - I have seen many people suffer with the weight of this decision for years and years after doing so, not to mention the discord it can cause in families if there is disagreement about what to do in regards to life support (obviously NOT talking about a brain-death case here, but, for instance, the Schaivo case). The concept of brain death absolves the family of decision making -there is no decision to be made! No one has to live with the guilt and family consequences of "pulling the plug." The fact that this attorney wants to submit agonizing families to even MORE guilt and pain is revolting.

[Ralar]

If they won't listen to doctors, including outside doctors, why does everyone think they'd listen to their lawyer, who has absolutely no medical training?

Everyone keeps saying how unethical this is, but distasteful does not equal unethical. Lawyers represent all sorts of unpopular positions; that doesn't make them unethical. Please, someone specify exactly which ethics rule he has violated.

And if you're tempted to say it was by filing a frivolous lawsuit, keep in mind that 2 TROs later, it's a little harder to say that the suit was, without a doubt, completely without merit.

My opinion: The scumbag attorney is doing whatever it takes to keep the family close, so he still represents them when it is time for the malpractice/wrongful death case.

[Arete]

If they won't listen to doctors, including outside doctors, why does everyone think they'd listen to their lawyer, who has absolutely no medical training?

Everyone keeps saying how unethical this is, but distasteful does not equal unethical. Lawyers represent all sorts of unpopular positions; that doesn't make them unethical. Please, someone specify exactly which ethics rule he has violated.

And if you're tempted to say it was by filing a frivolous lawsuit, keep in mind that 2 TROs later, it's a little harder to say that the suit was, without a doubt, completely without merit.

He is not merely representing their interests here. He is facilitating their being able to move a corpse around while it decomposes. This is an uneducated, unconnected mother. $50,000 dollars on CrowdShare isn't maintaining her daughter's body. He is acting as go between between the mother and the money people.

Instead of explaining to her that they did everything they could and that they will file a lawsuit against the hospital for any negligence that lead up to the hemorrhage, he has facilitated a circus and a desecration. Letting a body decompose while allowing your client to maintain her delusion is a lot more than merely advocating an unpopular position. If he could not have convinced her, the ethical action would have been to remove himself from the case before he became a party to moving an unburied corpse around. He probably did not think she would deteriorate so fast and was trying to file a lawsuit based on her being "alive". He would trot out all the "right to life" freaks to argue that brain death is in fact NOT death. There is a bigger malpractice payout in CA if the patient is alive and hurt as opposed to dead.

Greedy, shady, bastard.