Jahi McMath case in California

[salex]

CNN is saying that Jahi has been moved to an undisclosed location, because the family is receiving death threats. I just saw Terri Schivo's brother being interviewed by Don Lemon, and he claimed that people can sometimes "wake up" from brain death. Actually, they don't, because the part of the body that regulates things like "sleep" and "awake" is gone when you are brain dead. The Schivos need to go away, because they are misleading the public on this issue.

The report I read said likely within driving distance. And that they are giving intravaneous nutrients and vitaamins and minerals which to me sounds like not equpt to insert feeding tubes and can't find doc who will. Said nfp that is not charging so far wont say where because death threats.

[J'ean Skirt]

This is an interesting (and quite true) analysis of the case.

CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin ripped what he described as political exploitation of the family of 13-year-old Jahi McMath on Monday, suggesting anti-abortion forces were pushing her family’s campaign to keep seeking medical care for the girl despite being declared brain-dead last month.

“I don’t want to minimize, to say the least, the heartbreak that’s gone on here,†Toobin told host Brooke Baldwin. “But let’s be clear about one thing: what’s going on here is abortion politics. This is all about opponents of abortion trying to define life in an ever-broader way: A fetus is alive; Terri Schiavo is alive; people whose hearts [are] beating and their brain is dead, they’re alive.â€

www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/01/06/cnns-jeffrey-toobin-compares-abortion-politics-in-jahi-mcmath-case-to-terri-schiavo/

[twinmama]

I had a simple tonsillectomy in 1997, as an adult. I stayed overnight, not in ICU. My ex had one done in 1990 and they released him after a few hours....THAT was ridiculous. I think that was back when they were trying to do everything outpatient. Yes, he was a baby about it, but still...

It was pretty rough as an adult.

What were Jahis other surgeries? They took out everything in her throat with this one, right?

My 32 year old husband had his tonsils and adenoids out a year ago and was released from the surgical center (not a hospital even) once he woke up from anesthesia and was no longer dizzy, a few hours. He was fine. No post-op bleeding or anything. All the anec-data in the world could say that complications are rare, but if there's a .0000008% chance, that means it does happen to someone.

Wouldn't SSI go directly to whatever facility she is in? She isn't living with her parents so I don't think they would receive it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[bionicmlle]

IF she were receiving SSI, it would go to the facility to pay for care. I am HIGHLY doubtful that the State of California & federal government are unaware she is deceased and has been giving payments.

[Coconut Flan]

IF she had ever been receiving SSI, it would cease effective with the date on the death certificate. Should notice not be made to the proper people, whoever receives any will be required to repay any benefits received after the official date of death.

[Ralar]

Look what ad popped up when I was reading this thread.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

In a post waaaaayyyy upthread, a video about "what is brain death" explained how her heart can be beating with no brain, as long as the lungs are (artificially) breathing, the heart gets oxygen and its own independent reflexes take over.

However. That video implied that this automatic functioning of the heart would only last a maximum(?) of some weeks, and that time is now running out quickly. Also, supposedly the other organs aren't so auto-functioning.

Schiavo was not brain-stem dead (she was alive, she could breathe and had the most basic functioning for her body to stay that way if only she got food). So without intervention to explicitly withdraw measures, she could theoretically stay how she was for years and years more.

But my question for some of the more informed people in here is, even if the parents managed to move Jahi to some other facility, how long would her body even stay working? If that video on brain death is right, it sounds like her heart is going to stop fairly soon anyway? And what of her other organs that do need more input from the brain (apparently?) to even just avoid organ-individual death? Her stomach, for instance?

(I'm of the opinion that dead is dead and they need to free up the resources for living people, her parents need to be kindly yet bluntly brought to reality - but it just seems that there is no way this drags on too much longer even if they got their every wish.)

[C Potter-Pirbright]

Its been incredibly slow at work, so I've spent the last day reading most the links I can find on this story.

Regarding Jahi's body according to the lawyer she( Jahi) is already in a pretty bad way,

"She's in very bad shape," Dolan said. "What I can tell you is that those examinations show that her medical condition, separate from the brain issue, is not good."

Of course her body is in bad condition, she's been brain dead for 3 week now ? Its only natural, there is only so much the doctors can do to slow certain processes down. I just can't with these people, the poor girl is dead, let her have some dignity in death.

http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_24 ... losed-care

[Stephanie66]

How do we know Jahi got SSI? And yes, she's dead, and there is a death certificate, which will be filed with social security. If they don't already know.

I guess I am wondering who is paying for it? Obviously not MedCal or private insurance because she's dead. Obviously not her mom, if Jahi was poor enough for SSI. So are they seriously going to raise enough funds from the pro- life crowd to keep her on a ventilator and round the clock clean-up of waste for a few weeks until her heart stops?

ETA: it is my understanding that her digestive system will not work, so inserting a feeding tube will only be like a funnel...unless the bowel has already...I don't know how to put that delicately. Inserting a feeding tube is not going to be pretty.

[Cleopatra7]

In case anyone needed proof that this poor girl is dead, here is a medical analysis of the body's inevitable decaying state:

http://www.insidebayarea.com/bay-area-n ... source=pkg

(link not broken because it's a news site, note that some of the details are a bit grisly)

Jahi's family needs to understand that this girl is dead, give her a respectful funeral, and end this freak show.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

In case anyone needed proof that this poor girl is dead, here is a medical analysis of the body's inevitable decaying state:

http://www.insidebayarea.com/bay-area-n ... source=pkg

(link not broken because it's a news site, note that some of the details are a bit grisly)

Jahi's family needs to understand that this girl is dead, give her a respectful funeral, and end this freak show.

That is precisely what I was interested to know. Thanks.

...and yeah, 100% agreed, put the body to a funeral already and move on.

[Arete]

In case anyone needed proof that this poor girl is dead, here is a medical analysis of the body's inevitable decaying state:

http://www.insidebayarea.com/bay-area-n ... source=pkg

(link not broken because it's a news site, note that some of the details are a bit grisly)

Jahi's family needs to understand that this girl is dead, give her a respectful funeral, and end this freak show.

That medical analysis of Jahi should be required reading for anyone who has any doubt that what is happening is anything less than the desecration of a dead body.

It should also be submitted in an ethical review that would optimally result in the lawyer being disbarred.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

The various people on the "she's not dead yet!" side of this seem to completely misunderstand the difference between brain dead (=dead!) and Terri Schiavo's condition.

I agreed with the decision to withdraw food and let Schiavo die a "natural" death, but the point is she was ALIVE, such as she was. Pointlessly alive perhaps, definitely no possibly whatsoever of attaining consciousness, thankfully beyond any possible awareness or suffering, but she was biologically alive.

Not so this kid.

I suppose the upshot, horrifying as it is, is that there's no way this drags on much longer. There's just no physical possibility it can ever be "another Terri Schiavo case," regardless of how many profiteering blood-sucking lawyers may attempt to get involved.

[Coconut Flan]

When you read about the state her brain is in now it becomes even more clear, and gorier, than the description of her current condition. All I can hope for is the rapid end of her heart beating since that's all her mother will accept as death. Why did the judge ever rule to allow this farce?

[ILoveJellybeans]

This is horrifying.

Jahi is dead. Let her rest in peace.

To keep her breathing while she is brain dead is pretty much the same thing as them mummifying her and sitting her in her favourite chair for years. Both are desecrating a corpse and refusing to accept the death.

I hope her heart stops beating soon, so they can finally give her a proper funeral and let her rest in peace. How much worse can it get before her heart is to deteriorated to function? Will she start to smell like a corpse?

When are her parents going to realise this is wrong. You cant bring a dead person back to life, and she is dead. She is starting to deteriorate because she is dead. Living people who are just unconscious, or in a coma, or severely brain damaged don't start to deteriorate like Jahi is, because they are alive.

[Alice_Fraggle]

I read this morning that her mom is moving her so that she can ... let me find the exact wording ... "make a full recovery". Someone needs to tell this woman that that is NOT possible - she's brain dead she CANNOT COME BACK!

ETA: Thank you for the link to the details of what is happening in Jahi's body. This is a sad situation, and I wonder how her family will feel years from now looking back on their actions now.

[Evilbad]

I am pretty sure that she has been told this, over and over again. At this point, she's beyond reasoning. I can't even imagine the kind of mental break she has had, to take things this far.

[AKay]

The document describing her ongoing decay is just ghoulish. I cannot believe that the family is so out of touch with reality that they cannot see this. Shame on the judge that allowed this to go on. What a disservice to that poor little girl.

[formergothardite]

I can't imagine what this mom is going to do when her body finally decomposes to the point where the heart stops. She is really delusional right now and seems convinced that there will be a full recovery. This is tragic.

[sparkles]

I think the mother, aided and abetted by her lawyer and all the other "right to life" leeches that have joined in this circus, will blame the hospital for Jahi's eventual "death" due to the breakdown of her body. As in "it's their fault for not putting in the feeding tube, etc., she could have been saved, blah blah blah." Regardless of the initial cause of this poor child's demise--hospital and/or doctor negligence (all still speculation at this point)--even greater damage has been done in the aftermath. The mother might get a pass if her grief has truly blinded her to the realities, but for the rest of them, there's no excuse. They should be ashamed.

[Becket70]

I read this morning that her mom is moving her so that she can ... let me find the exact wording ... "make a full recovery". Someone needs to tell this woman that that is NOT possible - she's brain dead she CANNOT COME BACK!

ETA: Thank you for the link to the details of what is happening in Jahi's body. This is a sad situation, and I wonder how her family will feel years from now looking back on their actions now.

I asked my DH, who is in the medical field, exactly how is it that she is moving. His response was that it is a primitive nervous system reaction that does not rely on the brain. He likened it to a newborn grabbing hold of the finger when you touch its hand, which as cute as it is, it not a purposeful reaction. Same goes for touching a newborn's cheek. It will grimace and turn towards the source of the stimulation looking for the breast. Again, a primitive response. So, if they are touching her hand, her hand would move in a reflexive manner into a fist. If they touch her face, her head would move in a primitive response. I was very supportive of this mom in the beginning but now I am getting pretty angry...not at her...but at her attorney. He is implying way too much that the hospital is responsible for the current condition of her body. Yet, we are hearing only one side of this story. One of these days, the hospital's side will be made public. There is a lot more to this story than what we are hearing from the attorney.

[lilwriter85]

I think the mother, aided and abetted by her lawyer and all the other "right to life" leeches that have joined in this circus, will blame the hospital for Jahi's eventual "death" due to the breakdown of her body. As in "it's their fault for not putting in the feeding tube, etc., she could have been saved, blah blah blah." Regardless of the initial cause of this poor child's demise--hospital and/or doctor negligence (all still speculation at this point)--even greater damage has been done in the aftermath. The mother might get a pass if her grief has truly blinded her to the realities, but for the rest of them, there's no excuse. They should be ashamed.

I totally see this happening.

[Coconut Flan]

Money, money, money. The uncle said something like they are looking for in the neighborhood of $200 M in a lawsuit. It's shameful.

[Ralar]

I read this morning that her mom is moving her so that she can ... let me find the exact wording ... "make a full recovery". Someone needs to tell this woman that that is NOT possible - she's brain dead she CANNOT COME BACK!

ETA: Thank you for the link to the details of what is happening in Jahi's body. This is a sad situation, and I wonder how her family will feel years from now looking back on their actions now.

No one who has met the criteria for brain death has ever survived -- no one. It can be difficult to predict a person's outcome after a severe brain injury, but it can be said with certainty that a brain dead individual is dead, the same as if their heart was not beating.

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/02/nobody-declared-brain-dead-ever-wakes-up-feeling-pretty-good/253315/

[moodygirl86]

I do feel sorry for the mum, but frankly I think she needs to be sectioned.