Vision Forum Ministries: Family, Church, and State

[Deleted12]

8. Family, church, and state are parallel institutions, each with real but limited authority in its ordained sphere. As the keeper of the keys of Christ’s kingdom, the church is the central and defining institution of history. As the primary social group, the family is the foundational institution of society. (Matt. 16:19; 18:18; Acts 4:19; 5:29; 25:11; Heb. 13:17; 1 Pet. 2:13ff.; Eph. 1:22-23; 1 Tim. 3:15)

9. Every Christian father and family ought to be a submitted and committed part of a local church, subject to the authority and discipline of the church through its elders. (Heb. 10:24-25; 13:17)

10. The church is defined by its orthodox confession and faithful teaching of God’s word; by the presence of the Holy Spirit; by the rule of qualified elders; by the biblical administration of the sacraments of baptism and the Lord’s Supper; by regular meetings for worship, instruction, breaking bread, and fellowship; and by the exercise of discipleship and discipline. (Gal. 1:8; 1 Tim. 3:15; 1 Cor. 12:13; 1 Tim. 3:1ff.; Matt. 28:19; 1 Cor. 11:20ff.; Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 5)

11. Male leadership in the home carries over into the church: only men are permitted to hold the ruling office in the church. A God-honoring society will likewise prefer male leadership in civil and other spheres as an application of and support for God’s order in the formative institutions of family and church.(1 Tim. 3:5)

http://www.visionforumministries.org/ho ... archy.aspx

[debrand]

8. Family, church, and state are parallel institutions, each with real but limited authority in its ordained sphere. As the keeper of the keys of Christ’s kingdom, the church is the central and defining institution of history. As the primary social group, the family is the foundational institution of society. (Matt. 16:19; 18:18; Acts 4:19; 5:29; 25:11; Heb. 13:17; 1 Pet. 2:13ff.; Eph. 1:22-23; 1 Tim. 3:15)

9. Every Christian father and family ought to be a submitted and committed part of a local church, subject to the authority and discipline of the church through its elders. (Heb. 10:24-25; 13:17)

10. The church is defined by its orthodox confession and faithful teaching of God’s word; by the presence of the Holy Spirit; by the rule of qualified elders; by the biblical administration of the sacraments of baptism and the Lord’s Supper; by regular meetings for worship, instruction, breaking bread, and fellowship; and by the exercise of discipleship and discipline. (Gal. 1:8; 1 Tim. 3:15; 1 Cor. 12:13; 1 Tim. 3:1ff.; Matt. 28:19; 1 Cor. 11:20ff.; Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 5)

11. Male leadership in the home carries over into the church: only men are permitted to hold the ruling office in the church. A God-honoring society will likewise prefer male leadership in civil and other spheres as an application of and support for God’s order in the formative institutions of family and church.(1 Tim. 3:5)

http://www.visionforumministries.org/ho ... archy.aspx

I read somewhere that in their churches, the male head of the family always gives out communion. If the father is unavailable, the next male, even if he is younger than his sister, gives out the communion. What a slap in the face that must be to older sisters or mothers.

[finleeport]

When I was growing up in my faith, I was taught that sin came from both Adam and Eve; Eve started it but Adam finished it, and instead of having the guts to admit his own guilt, he behaved immaturely and blamed Eve for it.

That's what I learned that Vision Forum believes; sin came through a woman and probably that's why they don't let them take communion by themselves. I watched Cynthia Kunsman's Patriarchy lecture.

[JennJenn]

8. Family, church, and state are parallel institutions, each with real but limited authority in its ordained sphere. As the keeper of the keys of Christ’s kingdom, the church is the central and defining institution of history. As the primary social group, the family is the foundational institution of society. (Matt. 16:19; 18:18; Acts 4:19; 5:29; 25:11; Heb. 13:17; 1 Pet. 2:13ff.; Eph. 1:22-23; 1 Tim. 3:15)

9. Every Christian father and family ought to be a submitted and committed part of a local church, subject to the authority and discipline of the church through its elders. (Heb. 10:24-25; 13:17)

10. The church is defined by its orthodox confession and faithful teaching of God’s word; by the presence of the Holy Spirit; by the rule of qualified elders; by the biblical administration of the sacraments of baptism and the Lord’s Supper; by regular meetings for worship, instruction, breaking bread, and fellowship; and by the exercise of discipleship and discipline. (Gal. 1:8; 1 Tim. 3:15; 1 Cor. 12:13; 1 Tim. 3:1ff.; Matt. 28:19; 1 Cor. 11:20ff.; Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 5)

11. Male leadership in the home carries over into the church: only men are permitted to hold the ruling office in the church. A God-honoring society will likewise prefer male leadership in civil and other spheres as an application of and support for God’s order in the formative institutions of family and church.(1 Tim. 3:5)

http://www.visionforumministries.org/ho ... archy.aspx

I assume that the Republican party won't touch these people with a ten foot pole b/c know mainstream politician is going to get elected associating with these people. Please tell me I am correct and they aren't in Rick Perry's back pocket.

[GenerationCedarchip]

I read somewhere that in their churches, the male head of the family always gives out communion. If the father is unavailable, the next male, even if he is younger than his sister, gives out the communion. What a slap in the face that must be to older sisters or mothers.

That sounds like what I saw and wrote about once before - the husband doling out communion to wife and kids. Somehow it doesn't surprise me that VF does that, too.

[Childless]

Oh, yeah. Thanks VF for reminding me why I'd rather sleep in than go to church.

[Brainsample]

Jen Epstein talked about the communion issue on Jen's Gems, and it is practiced in many FICs. One thing for Voddie Baucham, though a woman is not really permitted to discern doctrine on her own apart from her male overseer, he at least does not require that a woman be her own agent without a male covering in order to partake in the Eucharist.

The issue with FICs is that because each man is a household priest, he can believe his own interpretation of doctrine. Some FICs follow this practice, but some find it improper.

[Deleted12]

One thing for Voddie Baucham, though a woman is not really permitted to discern doctrine on her own apart from her male overseer, he at least does not require that a woman be her own agent without a male covering in order to partake in the Eucharist.

I think you mean the exact opposite of what you said here?

[Brainsample]

I think you mean the exact opposite of what you said here?

He lets women in his church take Communion without him judging her worthiness because her "male covering" is responsible for her sin. Phillips (reportedly does) as do others. So Voddie thinks that Doug is "doin' it' wrong." On some doctrinal points, he's not as into the priestcraft as guys like Doug.

But on the other hand, Voddie does not allow women to discern doctrine for themselves at his church. They have to learn silently at home from their teacher husbands who catechize them at home every morning, noon and night. The wife cannot discern or decide for herself. She's easily lead astray and cannot discern deception, needing a man to do that for her.

So Voddie is not as far to the extreme as some of these guys on some doctrines, but that doesn't make him all that much better.

All the FICs are a bit different. What I don't understand is how all of these household priests don't end up having a knock down drag out over which household priest is right and which is wrong. But maybe that explains why Voddie drives off elders all the time, too. Too many chiefs.

[Brainsample]

Then, there is always the issue between what they say they do and what they actually do...

[notsocommon]

But on the other hand, Voddie does not allow women to discern doctrine for themselves at his church. They have to learn silently at home from their teacher husbands who catechize them at home every morning, noon and night. The wife cannot discern or decide for herself. She's easily lead astray and cannot discern deception, needing a man to do that for her.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

This drove me ape shit crazy when I was still FB friends with someone from his 'church.' A question would be brought up, and instead of ofering their own thoughts they ALL said "We have to ask our husbands.

I asked a few very simple questions...things I am sure they never thought of before....like when they were talking about what God wants us to do, I asked "Who is more 'right' with God? The woman who is dressed modestly and steps over a hungry homeless man or the woman who is not-so-modest, but buys the man a hot meal?" Not a single one would answer the question without first asking their husbands. :angry-screaming:

Seriously, my 8 year old can answer that! If something like that isn't a sure sign of a cult, I don't know what is!