Vision Forum Now Closing, Doug Phillips Still a Tool-Part 2

[DomWackTroll]

Does anyone else, like me, still not believe that the primary victim is "the woman," but that she is being used to cover up another relationship?

It makes me feel like a conspiracy nut, but man, I just can't shake that feeling.

[tankgirl]

Does anyone else, like me, still not believe that the primary victim is "the woman," but that she is being used to cover up another relationship?

It makes me feel like a conspiracy nut, but man, I just can't shake that feeling.

Your not alone. I keep wondering if he screwed over some one big time, like one of the money guys. Was involved with someone else, like a man, or is there still money that went missing. If it was just sex with a woman I don't want details or a name, if it's a guy, I don't need a name or details either, but if he did something illegal I want to learn about it as the cops or Feds take him in, and if he can make a big fundie player look bad I want to know everything! But I still want to know whatelse, cause he didn't just get caught with an of age women, there is more.

I say this in case the nanny rumors are wrong and cause I think if they are true, ai think thete is still more. He was doing something shady, or pissed someone off.

[hoipolloi]

Does anyone else, like me, still not believe that the primary victim is "the woman," but that she is being used to cover up another relationship?

It makes me feel like a conspiracy nut, but man, I just can't shake that feeling.

+1.

Almost certainly there's more than one victim of abuse here.

Doug Phillips Is A Tool.

[MysteryHaggis]

Apropos of not much, thanks to this thread I got Quiverfull from the library. Already read Child Catchers, and enjoyed it (as much as you can enjoy the subject :cry:) but man, Quiverfull...I just can't even. It's weird to read it as this is going on,really weird.

[Cleopatra7]

It depends. Fundies and teenagers/unmarried young adults and where they stand are a confusing subject. In some ways, they are not considered a capable adult and are treated like a child until they are married, even if their wedding doesn't happen until they are 25. In other ways, they are expected to act like little adults from an early age and by age 10 have the kind of responsibilities most people don't get until they are in their twenties, and even the littlest girls are made to cover up because they are capable of defrauding a man.

But knowing how fundies think, she has a vagina and Doug doesn't, therefore it is her fault for tempting him into sin.

They would probably say that if she was ten when it started.

I guess my question is whether VFers even believe in the concept of statutory rape. There's a British Muslim cleric who's an apologist for child brides, claiming that ages of consent are secular concepts that have no meaning for an Islamic marriage. I wondered if the tool possibly justified an inappropriate relationship with a minor (assuming the victim is who we believe) by thinking along these lines. However, the fact that this is even a scandal illustrates the weakness of trying to set up a patriarchy in a modern Western society. If this was a traditional patriarchy, the tool's decision to securely exploit a female member of his household would be totally acceptable. That even his fellow patriarchs view thus situation as unacceptable illustrates how even they are not as traditional as they would like to think.

[Bookworm]

It depends. Fundies and teenagers/unmarried young adults and where they stand are a confusing subject. In some ways, they are not considered a capable adult and are treated like a child until they are married, even if their wedding doesn't happen until they are 25. In other ways, they are expected to act like little adults from an early age and by age 10 have the kind of responsibilities most people don't get until they are in their twenties, and even the littlest girls are made to cover up because they are capable of defrauding a man.

But knowing how fundies think, she has a vagina and Doug doesn't, therefore it is her fault for tempting him into sin.

They would probably say that if she was ten when it started.

Does this situation with the victim being, allegedly, the nanny, remind anyone of Voddie Baucham's disgusting bit a few years ago about daughters being there to prevent their dads from being tempted into an affair?

Also, I am quite curious what the interns, current and former, are thinking about all this.

[twin2]

Does this situation with the victim being, allegedly, the nanny, remind anyone of Voddie Baucham's disgusting bit a few years ago about daughters being there to prevent their dads from being tempted into an affair?

Also, I am quite curious what the interns, current and former, are thinking about all this.

Say what now????

I don't get this whole culture. Men are these manly men expected to be leaders of their home, spiritually, finacially, ect. yet they are so effing weak they can't keep it in their pants if a women flashes them her collarbone or shin? Good grief.

[smittykins]

Apropos of not much, thanks to this thread I got Quiverfull from the library. Already read Child Catchers, and enjoyed it (as much as you can enjoy the subject :cry:) but man, Quiverfull...I just can't even. It's weird to read it as this is going on,really weird.

I've got that on my bookshelf--I'll have to go back and re-read it. It's where I first heard about Doug Phillips Is A Tool.

[Marian the Librarian]

Say what now????

I don't get this whole culture. Men are these manly men expected to be leaders of their home, spiritually, finacially, ect. yet they are so effing weak they can't keep it in their pants if a women flashes them her collarbone or shin? Good grief.

It is, unfortunately, all too true:

thatmom.com/2009/11/19/voddie-baucham-explains-the-video-clip-on-older-men-yearning-for-younger-women/

[FloraDoraDolly]

Your not alone. I keep wondering if he screwed over some one big time, like one of the money guys. Was involved with someone else, like a man, or is there still money that went missing. If it was just sex with a woman I don't want details or a name, if it's a guy, I don't need a name or details either, but if he did something illegal I want to learn about it as the cops or Feds take him in, and if he can make a big fundie player look bad I want to know everything! But I still want to know whatelse, cause he didn't just get caught with an of age women, there is more.

I say this in case the nanny rumors are wrong and cause I think if they are true, ai think thete is still more. He was doing something shady, or pissed someone off.

If I had to guess what was going on here-- and this is nothing more than a guess-- I'd say that the inappropriate relationship happened first and that the tool used the ministry's funds to cover his tracks. Or something along those lines. I'm thinking perhaps there's a civil lawsuit or a criminal investigation. The tool confessed because he had to, not because his conscience was bothering him. I wonder if maybe he didn't mention the young lady in his confession because his lawyers advised him not to? Sure, he's callous enough to blame her and throw her under the bus. But an "I'm sorry" could also screw things up for him from a legal standpoint.

[Bookworm]

It is, unfortunately, all too true:

thatmom.com/2009/11/19/voddie-baucham-explains-the-video-clip-on-older-men-yearning-for-younger-women/

Here's an updated link to his just-not-getting it reply: gracefamilybaptist.net/voddie-baucham-ministries/blog/november-question-month-update-edition-2009-11/ :angry-banghead:

[bbfreethinker]

There is a very interesting new rumination about the future (including the desire to get a part time job & possibly attend college) from Kim & Perry's 17 year old daughter on the blog maintained by the 3 oldest (not counting the oldest married one) Life in a Shoe daughters-- One Short, One Fat, One Lean

This part of her post makes me sad for her:

I’m thinking journalism. The only problem with that is- if I was going to be a journalist, I’d want to go places, overseas eventually. But the sort of awesome, adventurous things I’d want to do, the places I’d want to go, aren’t the sort of places women reporters/journalists should be.

She needs to google Christiane Amanpour

[gustava]

This part of her post makes me sad for her:

She needs to google Christiane Amanpour

Unfortunately, her response might be that Amanpour goes to the sort of places women reporters/journalists shouldn't be.

[Peas n carrots]

Unfortunately, her response might be that Amanpour goes to the sort of places women reporters/journalists shouldn't be.

This is good though...she realizes there is a wide world out there. She just needs examples in her life that she doesn't have to be a shrinking violet who lives to please her father and then husband.

Baby steps...

[StacyW]

If I had to guess what was going on here-- and this is nothing more than a guess-- I'd say that the inappropriate relationship happened first and that the tool used the ministry's funds to cover his tracks. Or something along those lines. I'm thinking perhaps there's a civil lawsuit or a criminal investigation. The tool confessed because he had to, not because his conscience was bothering him. I wonder if maybe he didn't mention the young lady in his confession because his lawyers advised him not to? Sure, he's callous enough to blame her and throw her under the bus. But an "I'm sorry" could also screw things up for him from a legal standpoint.

I searched his name, and Vision forum, at https://apps.bexar.org/dklitsearch/search.aspx which is the Civil Litigant search page in his county, and found nothing.

[lemonhead]

This is good though...she realizes there is a wide world out there. She just needs examples in her life that she doesn't have to be a shrinking violet who lives to please her father and then husband. Baby steps...

Yes, baby steps. Too much at once may send her running back to the safety of what she knows. Small examples, here and there, may be easier to digest and internalize.

Source: An introvert who grew up in this crap. Maybe not all girls/females in patriarchy are introverts, but we are taught to act as though we are so, so treating those girls/females that way, at least initially, may be the best approach.

[VVV]

Link to the LiaS daughters' blog, please? It doesn't seem to be linked from Deanna's blog, though I was amused to see that her most recent post features the word "shit."

[DomWackTroll]

David Wegener is throwing a hissy fit on the Bayly Blog because the Aquila Report was supposedly "squealing with delight" at Dougie’s fall: "All that was missing were emoticons of shaking heads, clucking sounds, and 'meows'… Why are links like this being posted on the Aquila Report? Why are so many of the articles by women?"

baylyblog.com/blog/2013/11/whats-aquila-report

I'm all but drooling in anticipation of more comments.

[Want More Babies]

I searched his name, and Vision forum, at https://apps.bexar.org/dklitsearch/search.aspx which is the Civil Litigant search page in his county, and found nothing

Boerne is in Kendall County. Maybe something in that County will turn up.

[silvia]

It bears mentioning that the young target of Phillips' "inappropriate attentions," fed up with his hypocrisy, may have threatened Phillips that she would reveal the whole story if he did not confess -- that is, if you believe one commenter at Spiritual Sounding Board. If what that person said is true, I think it bodes well for the victim's potential to forge a meaningful, self-determined life for herself out of the wreckage Phillips created.

Another commenter on SSB said it well (and I'm no Christian): "The courage it takes for a woman who grew up in that system to do what is right and stand up to power she was taught never to speak back to…. That courage is so great, it can only come from God."

[mnwnwmwmn]

Prepare for an announcement that VFI is shutting down. If you go to their website and click around on products, about 90% of them say "Discontinued". There may be a chance that they go to a download only model, as those seem to be the few products still available.

[WonderingInWA]

Prepare for an announcement that VFI is shutting down. If you go to their website and click around on products, about 90% of them say "Discontinued". There may be a chance that they go to a download only model, as those seem to be the few products still available.

Scratch and Dent Sale! Anything to raise some cash. They must be in some serious trouble. Brings to mind a Gary Larson cartoon of a crisis clinic on fire about to go over a waterfall.

[ottergirl]

Doug was what led me to FJ. I don't know how I first stumbled across Jens Gems but I was amazed and horrified at the same time that in this day and age anyone could treat women the way they were described as being treated in her story. And it didn't seem to match with the beautiful image he presented on his blog. I was particularly fascinated by the lives of his children (especially his daughters) growing up in this bizarre atmosphere of privilege and repression. I hope that this will open the eyes of the girls to what the system is really like.

From Doug I spread out to some other fundies. I found it interesting to see this morning that Melissa Niednagel has pinned to a "To Listen" board Scott Brown's sermon "The Smell of Apostasy".

[church_of_dog]

Brings to mind a Gary Larson cartoon of a crisis clinic on fire about to go over a waterfall.

I have that card! :lol:

[jeweles555]

I have read all the stuff about Doug Phillips and am HORRIFIED! I am a Christian, I am a homescholer and although (thankfully) I read their stuff and fell under the "perfect family" spell for a short time, God brought me to a place years ago to throw his stuff away because I just felt he was living lavishly and always asking for money. I was like, "Hey, most homeschoolers I know are living very simply to homeschool and look at your clothing , vacations and such and you want money from us?" But I would of never, ever thought he would have done this. I had NO IDEA about JenGems (thank you Jen for writing all that stuff) and how he really was. No idea, or I would have never bought one book! I really think most homeschoolers had no idea of what he really believes. His books certainly don't suggest it! They make reference to some of it but it is sugar coated. I really, really think the poor girl that was his nanny is the victim. After I found out I did searches and figured out all the pages on vision forum mentioning her came up as not there except the graduation page. She is missing from the internet, this is before vision forum ministries shut down. And precious lady, If you are reading this, wont mention her name, you are a victim of abuse. Please, please, see that this is NOT what the bible says. It is a hoax! Please know you are precious and a victim! I am so stinking mad at this guy And now I am called an enemy of God for being mad? Doug, if you are reading this, which I think you are as this site shows up first page on google when I searched your name, I have this to say. You have deceived many, but none more than this girl. You should be ashamed and not once, not once, have I heard you apologize to HER? I have heard you speak. I have heard you shame other christians who are not as pure as you..all the while you are shaming this girl? I do judge you. You should be apologizing to her!!!! I do know there is forgiveness in Jesus so apologize to the one you hurt the most! I am not an enemy of Christ. He is my Lord and Savior. Not to follow people like you but Him. His gospel is different than those. He desires mercy not sacrifice. And not that it matters to me or God, but just so you know, my husband agrees 100 percent!