Vision Forum Now Closing, Doug Phillips Still a Tool-Part 2

[twin2]

The Doug Phillips Is A Tool Pyramid Scheme. Only the folks at the top enjoy the speed boat, convertible and McMansion (they hypothetical...in reality it was the vacations, costume parties and special events). They depend on the folks the dupe into buying their "vision" to make the guys at the top rich.

Yep, that is pretty much it.

[danvillebelle]

And it all comes a tumblin' dowwwwwn.

Gleeful? Hell yes I'm gleeful. I feel like Jesse in the Breaking Bad episode "The Fly", when he finally kills it - "Oh YEAH! Who just got ZAPPED!"

[jeweles555]

Thanks everyone. I was a little nervous to post because I am a homeschooler and a Christian and have been for many years. But I just couldn't hold it in anymore when I read that Doug said the enemies of Christ are rejoicing. I am not rejoicing at all but that doesn't mean I am not mad, especially because it doesn't seem his apology in sincere for one, because he did not apologize publicly to the girl he hurt. I mean, really? This is his whole "ministry" to be a man and to treat girls with all purity. You are right, most my friends had not idea about Doug and the affair. Most homeschoolers, I know, go to the conferences and do buy books but don't follow what the speakers are doing on a daily basis. I made sure to make a post on my facebook page to tell my friends. The ones that follow the sort of thing Doug is about are not on facebook anyways and seldom use computers, and this is a small amount of people, so I guess they will have to find out another way. I am sure they will be pretty sick about it too.

[Coconut Flan]

Welcome! I hope all of the homeschoolers who have bought from Doug Phillips, who is a tool, will be enlightened shortly.

I went quickly through a few pages on the website and a lot of the discontinued items seem to have been pulled by the authors. I'm guessing a lot of people don't want any association with him now.

I thought Geoff Botkin had pulled his items and then I found a Botkin book still available. Rats.

[jeweles555]

To the bolded, I have very often wondered how people who buy into VF/VFM don't see this, and was interesting to hear your take on that and how you came to your conclusions. Doug and his family take VFM money and co on fancy trips with some elite in the inner circle, play dress-up in fancy costumes (which clearly the average homeschooling family is not going to have the money for), film it all and then go around and sell it as a DVD on VF for the typical homeschooling family to buy. Why more people who buy-in into it and don't see it for what it was has always confused me. Hopefully now that all about VF that is coming to light, people will think more about these types of organizations and really start to see them for what they are, a way for a person to make money.

Twin2: As a homeschool mom of 22 years, I can tell you that most moms, at least the ones I know, are just searching for answers on how to best raise their kids. I guess like any other mom homeschooled or not. People like this have came into the movement and portrayed their "perfect" families and I guess we just wanted that too for our kids. As far as Doug, honestly his messages-at least the ones I bought and that was awhile ago when they were still on tape, seemed to offer some really good advice. But now I see, that a bunch of malarkey!

[jeweles555]

Trying to get to Bathroom Baby here :) I really feel like the Duggars do that too. I can't watch them at all! I am sure they are nice people but it just isn't real life to me. Well, maybe it would be if I had that sort of money pouring in and could hire help and lots of fun things like they have! I think they are doing a disservice to the homeschool community but not showing what life is really like behind closed doors.

[apple1]

Trying to get to Bathroom Baby here :) I really feel like the Duggars do that too. I can't watch them at all! I am sure they are nice people but it just isn't real life to me. Well, maybe it would be if I had that sort of money pouring in and could hire help and lots of fun things like they have! I think they are doing a disservice to the homeschool community but not showing what life is really like behind closed doors.

I can't watch the Duggars, either.

I cannot imagine that anyone still thinks that the Duggars are in any way representative of most US homeschoolers.

[debrand]

QFT.

"Gossip" is something 1950s housewives do over tea while their husbands are at work. It's very private because it only occurs in the private sphere because women aren't allowed in the public sphere, so they open the door to their empty house, move quickly to their friend's house (out in public! out in public!) and then the information that they share... that's called "gossip". What their husbands are sharing at work isn't gossip, you'll note.

"Gossip" is information that isn't confirmed by the *coughMALEcough* authorities. In most spheres that would mean legal authorities or scientific authorities but in this world it's the cult leaders.

Which means that "gossip" may be entirely true, but you're not allowed to hear it because it hasn't been approved by the leaders as part of their almighty plan.

When you're living in a tyrannical regime, gossip is the underground dissemination of inconvenient information, and it's fucking dangerous to their power, and they KNOW it.

Hell yeah to the bolded part. Notice that the powerful in this movements don't get upset when the subject is someone that they dislike but when their minions begin to talk about the leaders suddenly the speech is labeled gossip.

[DarkAnts]

Thanks everyone. I was a little nervous to post because I am a homeschooler and a Christian and have been for many years. But I just couldn't hold it in anymore when I read that Doug said the enemies of Christ are rejoicing. I am not rejoicing at all but that doesn't mean I am not mad, especially because it doesn't seem his apology in sincere for one, because he did not apologize publicly to the girl he hurt. I mean, really? This is his whole "ministry" to be a man and to treat girls with all purity. You are right, most my friends had not idea about Doug and the affair. Most homeschoolers, I know, go to the conferences and do buy books but don't follow what the speakers are doing on a daily basis. I made sure to make a post on my facebook page to tell my friends. The ones that follow the sort of thing Doug is about are not on facebook anyways and seldom use computers, and this is a small amount of people, so I guess they will have to find out another way. I am sure they will be pretty sick about it too.

There is a diverse group here. We have homeschooling christian moms and working single women. Thats part of what makes this board so interesting. You get to hear different perspectives on the same topic. We may not agree with each-other all the time but thats ok.

[TrueRebel1]

I can't watch the Duggars, either.

I cannot imagine that anyone still thinks that the Duggars are in any way representative of most US homeschoolers.

I think the sad thing is that the Duggars make "normal" families think that they can be like them, no problem. That if they have a dozen kids like God wants them to have, that their family will be peaceful and loving and successful home-schoolers. And that if they refuse to take on debt, God will bless them and they will be able to buy a house outright in cash, just like the Duggars. Yep, this is what my friends take away from the Duggar's show, and it's just sad and frustrating to see. :angry-banghead:

[thoughtful]

I was particularly fascinated by the lives of his children (especially his daughters) growing up in this bizarre atmosphere of privilege and repression. I hope that this will open the eyes of the girls to what the system is really like.

The bolded is a great description of their massively screwed-up life.

[twin2]

The bolded is a great description of their massively screwed-up life.

So true. But now the privileged portion of that is gone and all that remains is repression.

[Marian the Librarian]

I have read all the stuff about Doug Phillips and am HORRIFIED! I am a Christian, I am a homescholer and although (thankfully) I read their stuff and fell under the "perfect family" spell for a short time, God brought me to a place years ago to throw his stuff away because I just felt he was living lavishly and always asking for money. I was like, "Hey, most homeschoolers I know are living very simply to homeschool and look at your clothing , vacations and such and you want money from us?" But I would of never, ever thought he would have done this. I had NO IDEA about JenGems (thank you Jen for writing all that stuff) and how he really was. No idea, or I would have never bought one book! I really think most homeschoolers had no idea of what he really believes. His books certainly don't suggest it! They make reference to some of it but it is sugar coated. I really, really think the poor girl that was his nanny is the victim. After I found out I did searches and figured out all the pages on vision forum mentioning her came up as not there except the graduation page. She is missing from the internet, this is before vision forum ministries shut down. And precious lady, If you are reading this, wont mention her name, you are a victim of abuse. Please, please, see that this is NOT what the bible says. It is a hoax! Please know you are precious and a victim! I am so stinking mad at this guy And now I am called an enemy of God for being mad? Doug, if you are reading this, which I think you are as this site shows up first page on google when I searched your name, I have this to say. You have deceived many, but none more than this girl. You should be ashamed and not once, not once, have I heard you apologize to HER? I have heard you speak. I have heard you shame other christians who are not as pure as you..all the while you are shaming this girl? I do judge you. You should be apologizing to her!!!! I do know there is forgiveness in Jesus so apologize to the one you hurt the most! I am not an enemy of Christ. He is my Lord and Savior. Not to follow people like you but Him. His gospel is different than those. He desires mercy not sacrifice. And not that it matters to me or God, but just so you know, my husband agrees 100 percent!

Adding my welcome to FJ, and my thanks for your message to Doug's victim and your perspective on this situation.

Re: the bolded above - the VF blog (formerly "Doug's Blog") archives are still up on VFI's website. There are a number of pictures and accompanying text about the young woman in question scattered throughout the past decade's entries. For whatever it's worth, I'm working on saving said pics and text. (The worst so far: "Twelve-year-old Joshua with his big sister in the Lord." Ick.)

[Chicken bones]

Trying to get to Bathroom Baby here :) I really feel like the Duggars do that too. I can't watch them at all! I am sure they are nice people but it just isn't real life to me. Well, maybe it would be if I had that sort of money pouring in and could hire help and lots of fun things like they have! I think they are doing a disservice to the homeschool community but not showing what life is really like behind closed doors.

Off topic, but I feel the same way about Botox and fillers! The unreality of them makes the reality look worse.

[hoipolloi]

Welcome, jeweles555.

Regarding your excellent statement on VF & how you've come to see the reality, I hope you'll accept my citation of John 8:32 here, not withstanding that I am a middle-aged feminist, raised as a Unitarian-Universalist, and probably the opposite of you in many, many things :)

And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

[FlorenceHamilton]

For a whole list of reasons, I have always found Doug Phillips extraordinarily offensive. He gloated over his superiority in a way that makes the schadenfreud of this situation particularly irresistible. At the end of the day, the tragedy overrides everything. Not only is it tragic for this young lady, but for all of the women he has encouraged to place themselves in a position so vulnerable in a system that is intrinscially dangerous for them.

[jeweles555]

Thank you all for the warm welcome and helping me understand the board better! I agree Florence, hopefully this "idol" coming down will make many up from this dangerous position. I am glad I have a husband that never bought into this stuff. It was me that bought it and conferences. He said that Doug was trying to tell Dads how they should run their families and he didn't see how patriarchy, as Doug, was making it about to be as biblical at all! He certainly didn't want a mouse for a wife, sitting around knitting all day. He likes that I have a little at home business (gasp, I even talk to men on the same level) and wear pants and nice outfits, and even a bathing suit to the beach. It is all so messed up and wrong what they are trying to portray. A real homeschool family has arguments, does stupid things sometimes, feels regret, has bad days. We, as homeschoolers need to present the world the truth and not put ourselves on a pedestal.

[jeweles555]

Re: the bolded above - the VF blog (formerly "Doug's Blog") archives are still up on VFI's website. There are a number of pictures and accompanying text about the young woman in question scattered throughout the past decade's entries. For whatever it's worth, I'm working on saving said pics and text. (The worst so far: "Twelve-year-old Joshua with his big sister in the Lord." Ick.)

Marian: I see them now. Wow that is quite a collection. Wonder if he has anything about adultery in there. I don't have the time or the patience to go through them all but would like to see what you find out, if possible. Here is my take on it. I think Doug might have got her pregnant and she is going to have a baby. But he shamed her and blamed it on her and paid her to keep quiet and get lost. Probably the whole family. He is a lawyer, so I think he probably had them sign a non-disclosure. Why else have we heard nothing from them defending her name all over the internet. I hope I am wrong but I can't see why else Doug would actually confess. He had to. The others in the church must have known and wouldn't let him go on in the facade. I don't know. Maybe I am wrong to think this but considering he has done this for years apparently, I don't see any reason for him to change except someone was going to rat him out. Maybe her dad?

[hoipolloi]

The thing is Doug Phillips Is A Tool, VF, NCIFC, Scott Brown, Voddie Baucham, Michael & Debi Pearl, Geoffrey Botkin, Ted Tripp -- the whole lot of them -- base their ministries businesses on selling a promised outcome to their followers, particularly when it comes to raising children. I don't blame people for getting sucked into them since the primary selling points of these scams zero in on a family's greatest vulnerabilities.

There isn't a parent alive -- homeschooling, conservative, liberal, radical -- who probably wouldn't do anything to ensure their children (especially teenagers) grow up to be healthy, happy, productive, and in harmony with the parents. I didn't understand this impulse until our kid was a teenager. Although the teenage rebellion we experienced was relatively minor & all ended well, the frightening sensation of not being in control, particularly in control of how things would turn out for the kid, is still with me.

I totally understand why people buy into these things especially when the hucksters only present a false picture of how things "worked" in their own families. Then, when the followers' lives don't turn out as well, the hucksters stuff the money into their bulging pockets and walk away, saying "You're not doing it right."

[jeweles555]

And I don't blame her at all if that happened. What else could she do? He probably made her feel guilty for causing the problem because after all, isn't is always the girl/womens fault. I also feel sorry for his wife. Obviously she has underwent a transformation. He probably made her feel it was her fault for not being as beautiful and desirable as she used to be (like having that many kids doesn't change your figure)

[meda]

visionforum.com/browse/product/history-of-america-study-course/default.aspx?a=601114

Interesting, they are now discontinuing the video they put together from this summer's History of America Mega Conference......

I suspect "home schooling tools" that came from the VFM trips/conferences will soon be discontinued as well.

I am wondering if this is because of an internal or external audit. I question the legality of selling materials by the for profit wing of VF that were created by a not for profit organization using tax free donations.

[debrand]

I have been thinking about the crazy lovefest that Phillips had for the Titanic and how he used that tragedy to convince his female followers that it is in their best interest to submit their needs for his(and other men like him) so that during an unlikely emergency the men will put the women and children first. However, men don't have to show daily respect for their partners by doing thankless things like changing diapers or listening to their wives's needs. Of course, some of the Vision Forum guys probably do things like help around the house or take care of kids but these are considered 'extra' things not simply part of being a good partner and dad. Doug Phillips is a good example why this type of system doesn't work. He did NOT put the victim first by refusing to take advantage of someone in a vulnerable situation. The ideology ends up creating gods out of the men who follow this ideology.

It is so damned arrogant that the guys of Vision Forum pat themselves on the back because some men unrelated to them or their organization were onboard the Titanic.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I think the sad thing is that the Duggars make "normal" families think that they can be like them, no problem. That if they have a dozen kids like God wants them to have, that their family will be peaceful and loving and successful home-schoolers. And that if they refuse to take on debt, God will bless them and they will be able to buy a house outright in cash, just like the Duggars. Yep, this is what my friends take away from the Duggar's show, and it's just sad and frustrating to see. :angry-banghead:

What annoys me, even just as a secular person on the heathen parts of the internet, is how many people who routinely talk very hateful talk at even much smaller families on hard times (particularly if it's non-white families - yeah, I'll go there) seem to fall for the "oh the Duggars are okay to have 19 kids and it's a great inspiring thing because they earn their own way" as if they are at this point in ANY way remotely mainstream or "earning their way" in the normal world.

They've been on TV for years now, and have oodles of money coming in from that. As such, yeah, they're not in debt right now, but to pretend that this means any family can surely have 19 kids and "make it" similarly is just craziness. They are not living in the normal world.

The Duggars have been featured on Japanese TV a few times also, and those shows too just buy up and echo the fawning "and they earn their own way!" line. It's crazy. The variety show people in particular surely must realize that the Duggars, like them, are firmly making their way in the "entertainment world" as it's known, in the industry, and that's a category different from "normal people."

[jojo]

This whole movement just breeds contempt for women and, somehow a belief in women that they should be grateful for it. The same rumors that are flying around here are certainly flying around in the VF circles (and probably with double the venom - don't tell me Christians don't gossip or enjoy a good downfall), so they've heard that people think Doug might be accosting his own kids or the nanny. They're not just gossiping about Doug, they're giving the side eye to all of the women possibly involved. This leaking of information in dribbles just serves to keep the attention on who the woman/girl is and giving all of his frenemies a chance to play "guess who" with people's lives and give Doug a chance to "show his repentence" while subtly pinning the blame on the woman/girl involved. Doug needs to shut up and sit down and let the attention die down on his poor kids and ex-nanny.

And yeah, James McDonald could probably give some scrubbing lessons to Doug the Tool, considering he made his first wife disappear so completely. Even her kids don't seem to acknowledge her. I just don't get it.

And just as an aside - every time I see the title of this thread, I want to start it with "Attention Walmart shoppers..."

When I went to a blog (James and Stacy McDonald:The Real Story, which linked to an older version of "Your Sacred Calling") to search for info about the disappearing wife, I saw that the post about divorce and remarriage have been removed......Sorry, the page you were looking for in this blog does not exist. Is there another place where I can read about it? Thanks.

[WonderingInWA]

When I went to a blog (James and Stacy McDonald:The Real Story, which linked to an older version of "Your Sacred Calling") to search for info about the disappearing wife, I saw that the post about divorce and remarriage have been removed......Sorry, the page you were looking for in this blog does not exist. Is there another place where I can read about it? Thanks.

Ha ha ha -- there's an awful lot of blog scrubbing going on out there, isn't there? So much triage to be done. It's no wonder former followers of Doug Phillips Who is a Tool are mad at him. He's made a lot of work for them.