Vision Forum Now Closing, Doug Phillips Still a Tool-Part 2

[DomWackTroll]

They may seem less fundie on the the surface, but his daughter still thinks she can't be a journalist because she's a woman.

And yet she thinks she can be a ranch hand! I also found it very interesting that she said, "I don't want to be that guy who..." She is clearly rebelling against the ludicrous "gender norms" teachings of VF, and good for her.

[tabitha2]

Obedience to parents then husband, bible literalism and anti abortion. These things make the Coghlans Christian fundamentalists..... most every other matter that the fundies like the Duggers or Bates cling to so dearly: drinking, mainstream culture, clothing, most gender norms, ETC. they embrace with gusto.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Yeah, the Coghlans are becoming a bit less fundie, with them celebrating Halloween, drinking, wearing pants more often, the older kids interest in pop culture (including Harry Potter), blue hair, considering getting a job (and the oldest, who did), and blogs which don't mention God in every post.

They still have the same fundie beliefs though, and want to take away all of our rights.

Its good that they let their kids have more freedom, as if they are allowed access to the real world, they are more likely to be exposed to things outside their cult and be more likely to be able to make their own decisions.

[tabitha2]

Kim actually posted once why the all skirt thing is not applicable to the her family anymore for various reasons.

[mirele]

Kim's post sounds like she knows that it will be over soon, and is thankful for the time she had with her husband working there. Im guessing that's a yes. Hope they and all of the families affected by Doug's toolishness will be okay after the husbands lose their jobs and don't end up having to resort to two chicken breasts to feed the whole family or living like the Shraders.

Hope they can get unemployment, but knowing Doug, VF probably considered itself a ministry and didn't pay into Unemployment Compensation. Oh well, there's always ebil Food Stamps.

[salex]

Hope they can get unemployment, but knowing Doug, VF probably considered itself a ministry and didn't pay into Unemployment Compensation. Oh well, there's always ebil Food Stamps.

If they were employees of the For Profit side of VF, I'm not sure they get to choose to ignore paying into unemployment-- if they break the tax rules of their for profit company, the state can step in.

[SamuraiKatz]

Hope they can get unemployment, but knowing Doug, VF probably considered itself a ministry and didn't pay into Unemployment Compensation. Oh well, there's always ebil Food Stamps.

Ah I was just going to post on the ebil Food Stamps.

Perry and Kim appear to have a huge disconnect where Dougie and VF are concerned. Doug and family lived quite lavishly while the Coghlans were stacking their many daughters on shelving from Costco because they could only afford substandard housing. I think Perry is starting to put things together....Kim....seems to be not as far along in the process.

[marmalade]

I don't have the talent (or LOLDOUG! stash) to do this, but if someone could make a video retrospective of some of the best LOLs set to "The Way We Were" I would be forever grateful. And FJ would have the best memories in one place forever. :lol:

[Marian the Librarian]

There's a new comment and followup post on spiritualsoundingboard.com this morning. Many other very interesting comments as well:

Anonymous

NOVEMBER 16, 2013 @ 9:20 PM [EDIT]

Hi Everyone,

I rarely participate in online forums, so I’m really sure how to suggest something without sounding really harsh or offensive, but some people from our church have been reading around the boards looking for some insight as to how we should feel about DPs resignation. It’s a huge deal for many FICs.

I’ve noticed a lot of people suggesting that somehow the female was a victim and DP was a sex offender. Although this issue is a HUGE scandal for the VF movement and patriarchal circles, I don’t really think many people understand how DP is viewed in his community, especially by women.

MANY women revere(d) him. Many young and even married women revered him. To them he was an idyllic father/husband figure. For some women, it’s even easy to cross the line into sin of the heart.

So, I’m not quite sure where the idea came up that DP was a sex offender or that she is a victim of sexual assault. The female involved was engaged in a consensual affair, and she wasn’t underage. Doug Phillips is offensive in so many ways to normal individuals who exist outside the patriarchal realm, and I have no question after watching him speak many times that he has a deeply evil side, but there are women that look to him like a beacon of hope.

And no, the woman involved was not an employee as someone stated about. She was doing service to one of the biggest and most powerful families in her movement. These people were like her family. Why she chose to go down this road may not be as much a mystery as some believe. He painted himself as the paradigm of strong leadership and, if people can think Hitler’s leadership was worthy of following, it’s not hard to see why DP achieved so much attention.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I guess I can see a lot of women who are in the cult worshipping Doug so much that they would gladly sleep with him if he asked, that is a very unequal pairing still.

[Queen Of Hearts]

There's a new comment and followup post on spiritualsoundingboard.com this morning. Many other very interesting comments as well:

Why did the bolded just make me laugh out loud? "Service" is just another way to say sweet fellowship. ;)

Doug Phillips is a tool.

[DomWackTroll]

"These people were like her family."

Really? The daughter of a Hispanic janitor and a housekeeper felt that a clan that included a Harvard graduate who was a former Nixon administration official and his son the William and Mary law school graduate (oh, and racist POS) was "like family"? Even if she did, the delusions of a naive young woman do not make it so.

[debrand]

And no, the woman involved was not an employee as someone stated about. She was doing service to one of the biggest and most powerful families in her movement.

Somewhere on the site Jen's Gems, she writes that Doug would brag about not employing women even though he obviously had female nannies and housekeepers.

[tabitha2]

Not to mention the LIAS daughters went to work with Dad and got paid for it.

[salex]

There's a new comment and followup post on spiritualsoundingboard.com this morning. Many other very interesting comments as well:

So, she was an unpaid person who worked for the family without pay (you say volunteer, I say slave) so again, the power was uneven. THis sounds like some of the idiot women who said of Bill Clinton "Who wouldn't want to sleep with him, he was so powerful and wonderful"

I do like the comparison of Doug to Hitler, LOL.

[Drunkenbutterfly]

Not to mention the LIAS daughters went to work with Dad and got paid for it.

:naughty: Nahhh, only evil feminists get paid for work:

For over 10 years, our children have been able to go to work with their dad. They have listened to history and worldview lectures, trailed along with their dad throughout his day and watched and learned as he interacted with others. They made friends there, earned books and toys, learned and laughed and spent a significant portion of their lives there. They have grown up with Vision Forum, and that warehouse holds more memories than any of us can count.

For years now, I've wondered why they have so much VF-stuff to sell with so much limited living space and probably a small allowance. But the "thankfullness"- post about Vision Forum made things clearer.

[Marian the Librarian]

"These people were like her family."

Really? The daughter of a Hispanic janitor and a housekeeper felt that a clan that included a Harvard graduate who was a former Nixon administration official and his son the William and Mary law school graduate (oh, and racist POS) was "like family"? Even if she did, the delusions of a naive young woman do not make it so.

Two quotes from Doug's blog regarding the young woman in question:

Photo caption:

Twelve-year-old Joshua with his big sister in the Lord...

Beall and I have known the graduate for more than three years. In fact, we consider her to be a member of the family, and her parents to be the dearest of friends.

And, Esq. on "Sending Daughters Away:"

Thursday, June 19, 2003

I am amazed at how many men today have no sense of their clear duty under biblical law to protect the virginity of their daughters. Once upon a time, it was highly unusual for a woman to travel abroad without the protection of a male guardian, normally her father. Women without male escorts were described as “unprotected ladies.†(Aboard the Titanic, for example, first class passenger Archibald Gracie was personally responsible for the protection of six women, all of whom survived the night because he made sure they made it to safety.) The notion of protecting women at home and abroad stems from the biblically-mandated obligation not only to protect a woman generally from harm, but from the father’s duty to preserve the chastity of his daughters from any who would seek to violate it. It is the unique responsibility of fathers to watch over their daughters. An unwed daughter, be she eighteen or twenty-eight, is under the headship of her father, which means his protection and provision. Protection requires proximity — one of about six reasons why I have concerns about fathers sending their unmarried daughters thousands of miles away from home for extended periods of time to college.

I guess proximity didn't guarantee protection for this "daughter," did it, Dougie?? :evil:

Those who can't or won't acknowledge the incestuous, sexually abusive nature of the relationship between Doug and this young woman are being deliberately dense.

:angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

[apple1]

There's a new comment and followup post on spiritualsoundingboard.com this morning. Many other very interesting comments as well:

OK, I have not gone to SSB and read all the comments following that post. But - responding to the above - victim blaming is alive and well. Not even considering that if the situation lasted as long as has been portrayed, the victim had to be under the age of majority when this started, there are the issues of power, control, spiritual "leadership", pastor/congregant/spiritual abuse, etc. But the biggest thing that jumps out from that statement is "These people were like her family." If that is the tack that is being taken, then that makes the "situation" be analogous to incest.

Oh, did I mention, victim blaming? "She chose..."

Really.

[tabitha2]

:naughty: Nahhh, only evil feminists get paid for work:

For years now, I've wondered why they have so much VF-stuff to sell with so much limited living space and probably a small allowance. But the "thankfullness"- post about Vision Forum made things clearer.

No, they got paid. Deanna used to pay her sisters to do her chores and some of the girl pitched in for a car.

[marmalade]

I guess I can see a lot of women who are in the cult worshipping Doug so much that they would gladly sleep with him if he asked, that is a very unequal pairing still.

I agree. It's still a leader/follower and most importantly in their cult, a dominant male/subservient female "relationship." Nothing consensual about it when put into proper context.

[tabitha2]

Which begs the question....Beall Phillips is no submissive helpmeet, I suspect. What would happen if she saw a Hottie with a naughty body intern or son of a family and she tried to use her influence like her husband is suspect of doing to this lady?

[Palimpsest]

There's a new comment and followup post on spiritualsoundingboard.com this morning. Many other very interesting comments as well:

Luckily, Julie Anne at SpiritualSoundingBoard knew exactly how to respond to this Anonymous comment. Here is part of her answer (bolding by me]:

If you read through the comment, you might be able to sense the confusion, although I do not believe that Anonymous felt he/she was confused. There is waffling, the blame is shifted to the woman (this commenter also rightly acknowledges some blame with Phillips, but it seems to be minimized).

“I don’t really think many people understand how DP is viewed in his community, especially by women.â€

This sentence gives us a picture that says “we really know what is going on within the community, that outsiders aren’t privy to understand.†There is a sense that those of us on the outside and are talking about the scandal just don’t get it. This is part of the spiritually abusive pattern we see so many times. It ties in with the sense of elitism that many experience in spiritually abusive churches.

There are many people reading here looking for answers, looking for how the outside world perceives the situation. They now have a sense that all was not as rosy at it had once appeared. They may still believe the underlying or general messages of Doug Phillips, but the rug has been pulled out from under them. Now what?

Thank you Julie Anne.

I put it less kindly. Anonymous is saying that outsiders don't get how great and powerful the Great and Powerful Tool is to his flock. He is surrounded by groupies and tempted by weak and feeble women all the time. So how can he be blamed for dropping his pants. It's always the fault of women.

The victim blaming is quite blatant. No, dear Anonymous, this was not quite consensual if the victim (and her family) were members of the Tool's church. It is even less consensual if the woman was "doing service" (unpaid labor) with "one of the biggest and most powerful families of her movement." These facts are precisely what makes it spiritually as well as sexually abusive and non-consensual. :angry-banghead:

[DomWackTroll]

Two quotes from Doug's blog regarding the young woman in question:

Photo caption:

And, Esq. on "Sending Daughters Away:"

I guess proximity didn't guarantee protection for this "daughter," did it, Dougie?? :evil:

Those who can't or won't acknowledge the incestuous, sexually abusive nature of the relationship between Doug and this young woman are being deliberately dense.

:angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

Marian, I hope neither you nor anyone else thinks I'm denying it was abusive. The whole point of my post was to highlight the extreme power imbalance. But those in power often manipulate and use their "lessers" by convincing them that they see them as "family" or "dear friends." Does that mean they really do, though? Or are they simply lying to continue the exploitation?

[Clementine]

Two quotes from Doug's blog regarding the young woman in question:

Photo caption:

And, Esq. on "Sending Daughters Away:"

I guess proximity didn't guarantee protection for this "daughter," did it, Dougie?? :evil:

Those who can't or won't acknowledge the incestuous, sexually abusive nature of the relationship between Doug and this young woman are being deliberately dense.

:angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

The fact that Doug calls her "sister" and "family member" and she looks like his daughters, dimples and all, makes this so incredibly creepy and semi-incestuous on top of everything else. If I was married to Doug, I would wonder if he has abused or tried to abuse his own kids. He clearly has no normal boundaries.

[WonderingInWA]

I think Beall will end up taking him to the cleaners when the time is right. For right now, she's probably in hiding and just trying to keep home life sane for her kids. But I think after a bit of time, she'll bail out and move on.