Making Great Conversationalists

[johnhugh]

I am very socially awkward, which probably makes me the master of conversation in Maxhell. Bet I can speak more normally than the Maxwell "kids" though.

I can be shy if I don't feel comfortable with people and not too good in large groups. This what some would call a book takes no notice of different peoples personality characteristics. Poor Sarah for example comes come across as shyer than the reversals She's not in the Maxwell Band™ or as far as I know doesn't give lectures at the Dog and Pony show.

Thanks Miggy for the synopsis.

Oh Stevie, by doing a giveaway you've deprived yourself a few sales. :lol:

[Hane]

Gee, I don't know--I am tempted to actually buy this book so I can write things in the margins like "OMFG" and "You're kidding, right? RIGHT? Please tell me you're kidding."

I'm with everybody else here: This crap isn't conversation; it's rattling off a script with an embedded agenda.

True-life anecdote: My (excellent, very honest) plumber is a Jehovah's Witness. His work ethic is impeccable. After a big job he'd done for me, I went for my checkbook, and he told me that his wife (who is bookkeeper for his business) would send me a bill. I made the mistake of quoting the Bible verse, "The laborer is worthy of his hire" (which means you should pay the people who do work for you and not cheat them). He re-quoted me with "The laborer is worthy of his wages," and remarked that I'd made a reference to a scriptural verse most people were unaware of. I think I told him it was cited in the Catholic Catechism in the section about "Thou shalt not steal." So then he launched into a lengthy monologue about the JW view of the afterlife. I responded with "Oh--that's interesting," and then, fortunately, he had to go on to his next job.

Unfortunately, a Maxwell wouldn't have a "next job" to go on to.

[uber frau]

A Maxwell wouldn't be trusted in your house to begin with.

[snarkyjan]

Totally agreed. Not to go off-Maxwell, but wasn't it Voddie Baucham who wanted to spank someone else's kid for not greeting him in a way he deemed proper? That's all I can think of when I read your quote. When an adult is that desperate to protect and enforce their own sense of authority...well, it reflects either major insecurities or narcissism, or both. Ugh.

Yes, it was. IIRC, the little girl was very shy and was slow to acknowledge him. He urged the father to take her outside and spank her. Voddie, if you EVER laid a hand on a child of mine, or even someone else's child that I was responsible for, you would pull back a stump. I really hate this man.

[thoughtful]

Gee, I don't know--I am tempted to actually buy this book so I can write things in the margins like "OMFG" and "You're kidding, right? RIGHT? Please tell me you're kidding."

I'd also want to cross out "conversationalists" (and isn't that a clunky word?) on the cover and write in "Maxhell robots."

BTW, I don't think Steve thought too clearly when he chose the cover image, although it does give a clue about the possible results:

Yes, talk like Steve, and you, too, can clear a park bench in record time!

Squirrels and pigeons everywhere will starve!

[DefraudedByPlaid]

Yes, it was. IIRC, the little girl was very shy and was slow to acknowledge him. He urged the father to take her outside and spank her. Voddie, if you EVER laid a hand on a child of mine, or even someone else's child that I was responsible for, you would pull back a stump. I really hate this man.

Ah, okay - thank you. I would go slightly apeshit if someone ever touched my child with those intentions.

As a person who is naturally shy, oversensitive and too perfectionist (and has spent almost my whole life trying to relax and loosen up more), it hurts me to think of kids with similar personalities who are born into these home environments. Not that I like this lifestyle of fear and repression for ANY kid, but for the more sensitive ones it must be especially crushing.

[kpmom]

Yes, it was. IIRC, the little girl was very shy and was slow to acknowledge him. He urged the father to take her outside and spank her. Voddie, if you EVER laid a hand on a child of mine, or even someone else's child that I was responsible for, you would pull back a stump. I really hate this man.

I'd go crazy on him for even the urging of spanking. Voddie Baucham's a monster.

[Hane]

Yes, it was. IIRC, the little girl was very shy and was slow to acknowledge him. He urged the father to take her outside and spank her. Voddie, if you EVER laid a hand on a child of mine, or even someone else's child that I was responsible for, you would pull back a stump. I really hate this man.

Yeah, because "being polite to grownups" is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING a child should do. :eyeroll:

That said, it IS possible to encourage a child to have enough self-confidence to speak with an adult as long as the child's parent is around--as long as you do it with care and sensitivity.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Not to go off-Maxwell, but wasn't it Voddie Baucham who wanted to spank someone else's kid for not greeting him in a way he deemed proper? That's all I can think of when I read your quote. When an adult is that desperate to protect and enforce their own sense of authority...well, it reflects either major insecurities or narcissism, or both. Ugh.

Wow. That's just crazy.

I'll admit I'm one of those people who thinks it should be okay to talk to kids in public as fellow citizens. If a kid is making excessive noise in the coffeehouse I'll ask him directly (and politely) if he can tone it down a bit just as I'd ask anyone else. I'll ask a kid to pass the sugar when he's done with it there at the counter. If a kid is clearly staring at me I'll wave or just say hello.

But who would spank some other customer for failing to be deferential enough?

...I suppose maybe there are some, but any normal place would quickly throw them out! I can't help wondering if there's some age cutoff to the people Voddie thinks should be spanked if they don't address him "correctly"...

[VodouDoll]

OMG, yes. The other day I was grocery shopping with my 17-month-old. She was having a grand time, laughing and squealing and chair-dancing in the cart. She was a bit noisy, but at least she was making happy sounds and not crying, and was buckled into the cart rather than running around.

Anyway, this woman stopped her cart next to mine in the produce section and ordered me, "Give that kid a smack and shut her up. Nobody wants to listen to your brat."

I was dumbfounded. And then I shamed her. I said as loudly as I could without actually shouting, "EXCUSE ME, MA'AM. WHY WOULD YOU TELL ME TO HIT MY BABY? IT'S CRUEL TO HIT BABIES AND VERY INAPPROPRIATE AND STRANGE THAT YOU WOULD SAY THAT TO ME. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?" Everyone nearby turned to look and she scooted away quickly, and for the rest of my shopping trip anytime I passed someone who had witnessed it they told me how cute and happy my daughter is.

Some people, man. My response probably wasn't Miss Manners approved, but it sure felt good, and maybe next time she'll think twice.

[Coconut Flan]

I'd be all over and was all over anyone who told me to spank a child.

As I've said I have some fundie neighbors. Why did the normal people sell their church to some worse than IFB people? It's a large church, too. Anyway, they talk like Steve suggests for good conversation. The first time there was a Bible verse every other paragraph I was thinking what the heck. The same turning almost every conversation into evangelizing and the ridiculous emphasis on trying to make everything positive is there in another neighbor. Oddly she can say negative things, but corrects other people who hint at anything negative. It's kind of like Steve saying other people aren't good conversationalists and then turning around and saying always make a good report (quoting the Duggar way of expressing it).

[Jana814]

Yes, it was. IIRC, the little girl was very shy and was slow to acknowledge him. He urged the father to take her outside and spank her. Voddie, if you EVER laid a hand on a child of mine, or even someone else's child that I was responsible for, you would pull back a stump. I really hate this man.

Can someone tell me who this person is? I have never heard of him before. What kind of greeting did he think he diserved.

[clarinetpower]

Lady: What grade are you in?

Mary: Tenth grade.

Lady: Where are you going to go for college?

Mary: I am not planning to go to college. I would like to be a wife and mother someday. In the meantime, I am studying art so I can illustrate children's books. I can do that at home and save all the money that college costs while not being exposed to the negative influences of college.

Lady: Oh, that's too bad. I was really hoping you'd have some option of escape.

There. Reattached the part he forgot.

[polecat]

OMG, yes. The other day I was grocery shopping with my 17-month-old. She was having a grand time, laughing and squealing and chair-dancing in the cart. She was a bit noisy, but at least she was making happy sounds and not crying, and was buckled into the cart rather than running around.

Anyway, this woman stopped her cart next to mine in the produce section and ordered me, "Give that kid a smack and shut her up. Nobody wants to listen to your brat."

I was dumbfounded. And then I shamed her. I said as loudly as I could without actually shouting, "EXCUSE ME, MA'AM. WHY WOULD YOU TELL ME TO HIT MY BABY? IT'S CRUEL TO HIT BABIES AND VERY INAPPROPRIATE AND STRANGE THAT YOU WOULD SAY THAT TO ME. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?" Everyone nearby turned to look and she scooted away quickly, and for the rest of my shopping trip anytime I passed someone who had witnessed it they told me how cute and happy my daughter is.

Some people, man. My response probably wasn't Miss Manners approved, but it sure felt good, and maybe next time she'll think twice.

1. Why would ANYone in his/her right mind think that smacking a baby would shut her up?! It would change those happy noises into frightened crying, and that's an improvement how again?

2. I don't have any problem whatsoever with publicly shaming someone who promotes child abuse.

3. Yes, I do think that striking a BABY is child abuse, and I am sure that even pro-spankers would agree that smacking a child for no reason whatsoever is child abuse.

[snarkyjan]

Can someone tell me who this person is? I have never heard of him before. What kind of greeting did he think he diserved.

He's a big, burly preacher and I can see why a small child would find him intimidating. He apparently expected the kid to verbally kiss his ass instead of hiding behind her father. And again, if he wanted to put his hands on a child I was with, or suggested that I or my husband do so, we would be audible 6 states over.

[Coconut Flan]

I went to see his picture. He'd intimidate a lot of people not just small children. I'd probably avoid him unless he made a stupid remark to me.

[Miggy]

BTW, I don't think Steve thought too clearly when he chose the cover image, although it does give a clue about the possible results:

Yes, talk like Steve, and you, too, can clear a park bench in record time!

Squirrels and pigeons everywhere will starve!

Joseph designed the cover. He gets special credit for it and for choosing the fonts throughout the book. I had actually been wondering about the significance of the empty bench but I think you may have found it ... It's a warning.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

1. Why would ANYone in his/her right mind think that smacking a baby would shut her up?! It would change those happy noises into frightened crying, and that's an improvement how again?

Really. If it's a hyper excited but happy kid making noise, maybe just say some "wow, you're happy today" "it's a great day isn't it?" type thing works better IME. With a smile towards Mom, too.

[Miggy]

Chapter 5: Are there conversation dangers and cautions?

"Each of us is accountable to The Lord for our words."

We should eliminate "idle" words from our conversation. According to Steve, we should eliminate every useless words, every word that is not "filled with truth, thanksgiving, praise, graciousness, and good reports." We also have to get rid of foolish words and jesting. There is a two and a half page explanation as to why joking is bad. [The examples given sound like Jim Bob Duggar and should be avoided but that doesn't mean all jokes are bad. How about just avoiding jokes that involve laughing at another person?]

Don't talk about yourself all the time. Remember to listen. Avoid lying and flattery. (It took Steve 2 1/2 pages to say those three sentences due to an excessive use of bible verses and a lot of repetition.) Don't use hurtful words.

Teach our children about the scriptures so they can identify good and bad talk and only listen to the good talk. The bible says we have to ignore hurtful words.

Quote : Our family uses the last Sunday of every month to evangelize downtown. We are confronted with people who refuse our tracts or discussions in an evil way. [i can't even comment - that made me laugh so much.] We respond by not saying anything and moving along. Our facial expressions are ones of love not anger.

Exercises

(1) Take notes for practice and evaluation.

(2) Do you, your spouse or your children talk to much?

(3) Do you use idle words, foolish words, jesting, deceitful words, flattering words, evil words or hurtful words?

(4) As a family memorise verses that have to do with areas of wrong words that family members are struggling with?

(5) At mealtimes have each person evaluate how they are doing and record their personal evaluations. Encourage those struggling and praise those doing well.

(6) Read and discuss the conversations in this chapter.

[kpmom]

Quote : Our family uses the last Sunday of every month to evangelize downtown. We are confronted with people who refuse our tracts or discussions in an evil way. [i can't even comment - that made me laugh so much.] We respond by not saying anything and moving along. Our facial expressions are ones of love not anger.

An evil way? What does that even mean?

Steve, YOU are infringing on people's space when you push your tracts and your "discussions" on them. If they are telling you to get lost, or worse, you deserve it.

I'm generally a pleasant person, but one thing I can't abide is anyone telling me what i should and should not believe. I'd tell you to go to hell, or worse, too.

[Odd1Out]

An evil way? What does that even mean?

I took it as they got flipped off.

[formergothardite]

Refuse their discussions in an evil way? LOL

[uber frau]

Don't talk about yourself all the time. Remember to listen. Avoid lying and flattery. (It took Steve 2 1/2 pages to say those three sentences due to an excessive use of bible verses and a lot of repetition.) Don't use hurtful words.

I'm not sure we can accuse Steve of flattery, but as for the rest?

*He might not talk about himself per se, but considering both his family and his 'God' are extensions of himself I'm pretty sure we can count him as guilty of the first crime.

*I think what he calls listening is what the rest of us call waiting to talk. He is completely closed to other ppl's opinions or experiences and is just waiting for the other person to draw breath so he can hammer home his point.

*Lying? Where do we even start? Dear Steve, being creative with the truth and editing ppl's words without acknowledging the fact is lying. Even my 5 year old has a better grip on the difference between truth and fiction and he has an excuse (not that you would ever excuse such things as age appropriate development to be valid.)

*And as for hurtful words, their whole existence is based around making it known that they are the only True Christians and that everyone else is on a fast course to hell. What is more, even if their central message was true, they don't seem to have ever heard of the concept of constructive criticism. They have no desire to help, they only want to reinforce their own sense of superiority.

Pot, meet kettle. I'm marking Steve as a big, fat FAIL.

[VodouDoll]

They're not allowed to joke around? Saying funny things is a sin?

Holy crap.

[Miggy]

Sorry, I missed a bit in the middle of the quote.

For example, "If you give me that, I'll burn it" Someone else might say "No way".

I imagine they get a lot worse than this but this is what they thought was acceptable for the book.

It reminded me of a documentary I saw on over-enthusiastic Christians. Kids were handing out bible tracts. They handed them to a couple of African-American men and asked if they knew where they were going when they died. The men answered "Yes. We're going to heaven." The kids were stunned - no idea how to answer. Eventually the eldest muttered something about them being Muslims and walking away. I thought it was really sad that someone would send kids out evangelising without preparing them for (1) the fact that some people are already Christian (2) you can't tell who is Christian by their appearance and (3) some people are going to be rude.