Burden to Burundi, Zealous for Zambia

[klavierspieler]

The Shrader missionary presentation is now available on Youtube for your viewing pleasure. It is 9 interminable minutes long, and includes voiceovers from Esther and some of the kids. youtube.com/watch?v=43qm8czR3aY

That was quite the blast from the past for me. Not that I've seen that exact video before, but once you've seen one promotional video from missionaries on deputation, you've seen them all. And I saw quite a lot of them growing up.

It seems like I remember there being some discussion (maybe in a previous thread?) about whether or not the Shraders were going to be affiliated with I AM Ministries. I don't know if they will be anymore now that they are apparently switching cities, but based on that video they absolutely had been planning to work with them in Kafulafuta. That was Bobby Bonner himself about 2:25 into the video, and the mission and institute they are talking about are Bonner's mission compound and institute. And I recognize a handful of the local pastors as being converts/associates of Bonner's from his own mission videos. Bobby Bonner is close friends with the pastor at the church I grew up in and he was frequently at our church whenever he was in the US, so I saw a lot of his pictures and videos, especially when he would preach our missions conferences.

[Palimpsest]

You are absolutely correct, that is Bobby Bonner of I AM Ministries. I always want to pronounce it like the dog food.

We did discuss it in a previous thread and I found confirmation a while ago. I may have forgotten to post the link. From the March, 2012 prayer letter.

iamministries.info/bonner-march-prayer-letter

The last 6 months have been a whirlwind. Preaching and Teaching all over. Seeing souls saved and lives surrendered to the Lord is just well, awesome. God is so good, all the time, amen. In just a few weeks I will be headed over to Zambia for our Annual Resurrection Conference in the "bush". Nicolas Russo, David Rae and his wife, John Shrader and his wife will be coming along as well. Please pray for both David and John, as these two men, have resigned their Churches as Pastors and are coming over to Africa to join us in reaching Africa with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Please pray for their wives and children, and that they would get their support ASAP. We need them like yesterday. They are on their survey trip and are looking forward to meeting the people that God has placed in their path. What a Savior!!!

It puzzles me that Shrader and Rea have never openly announced the affiliation with I AM Ministries in their published materials. Is it better to present yourself as an independent mission for fund raising purposes? Or is the link with I AM Ministries very tenuous? It may be that John and Rea have discovered doctrinal differences with Bonner, thus the Lord redirecting them to Kafue. Unless I AM has a branch in Kafue? Do you know?

I'll do a bit more digging. :)

[klavierspieler]

I don't know if I AM has a branch of their own in Kafue, but I know at least one of their local converts-turned-pastor who completed their Bible institute had started a church there as of two or three years ago. I don't know if he's still there, though, I don't get much info on that kind of stuff anymore since I quit going to church.

As for not affiliating themselves with I AM in their materials, in my experience (others MMV, of course) most churches just want to know whose "authority" you are going to the mission field under, and that's your home/local IFB church 99.99% of the time (your "sending church"). Rarely a mission board, but that's more a Southern Baptist thing than IFB. I AM Ministries isn't technically a mission board anyway, something they used to go to a lot of trouble to make sure people knew. Lots of new missionaries will partner with more experienced missionaries when they first go to the field, but while they may say they will be joining established missions/missionaries they don't always name them and it's usually not a big deal. Bobby Bonner is well known in fundie circles, maybe they thought having a clip of him in their video would be enough to tell people who they were working with without having to name him. And a lot of churches do Q&A sessions or have time after services for people to talk to the missionaries and ask questions, so anyone who wanted to ask more explicit questions about who they'd be working with would likely have plenty of time to do it then. I highly doubt that Bonner would mention them in his prayer letter if they were only going to be tenuously associated or if they'd had any kind of theological falling out. My best guess is that they just didn't think it was important enough to mention since I AM has no authority over them.

You are absolutely correct, that is Bobby Bonner of I AM Ministries. I always want to pronounce it like the dog food.

Also, thanks a lot for the bolded. I've never thought of that before, but now I can't think of it any other way. :lol:

[Lillybee]

I always hesitate to click on this thread because I do worry about Esther and the children.

[Palimpsest]

I don't know if I AM has a branch of their own in Kafue, but I know at least one of their local converts-turned-pastor who completed their Bible institute had started a church there as of two or three years ago. I don't know if he's still there, though, I don't get much info on that kind of stuff anymore since I quit going to church.

As for not affiliating themselves with I AM in their materials, in my experience (others MMV, of course) most churches just want to know whose "authority" you are going to the mission field under, and that's your home/local IFB church 99.99% of the time (your "sending church"). Rarely a mission board, but that's more a Southern Baptist thing than IFB. I AM Ministries isn't technically a mission board anyway, something they used to go to a lot of trouble to make sure people knew. Lots of new missionaries will partner with more experienced missionaries when they first go to the field, but while they may say they will be joining established missions/missionaries they don't always name them and it's usually not a big deal. Bobby Bonner is well known in fundie circles, maybe they thought having a clip of him in their video would be enough to tell people who they were working with without having to name him. And a lot of churches do Q&A sessions or have time after services for people to talk to the missionaries and ask questions, so anyone who wanted to ask more explicit questions about who they'd be working with would likely have plenty of time to do it then. I highly doubt that Bonner would mention them in his prayer letter if they were only going to be tenuously associated or if they'd had any kind of theological falling out. My best guess is that they just didn't think it was important enough to mention since I AM has no authority over them.

Also, thanks a lot for the bolded. I've never thought of that before, but now I can't think of it any other way. :lol:

Glad you liked the dog food concept. :D

That is all very informative, especially about the structure - or lack thereof. Thank you! I'm not going to ask you to join the church again to satisfy my curiousity, although I'm tempted! :cracking-up:

As a former Missionary Kid, I'm used to real missions (CMS, BMS, SIM, and so on). These unaffiliated church planters were always regarded as a total nuisance, perpetually in need of rescuing by long-term medical missionaries like my parents.

I did a bit more digging and the affiliation with I AM is now obvious. This from Anderson's (Bobby's side kick at I AM) news update last March. iamministries.info/andersons-march-2013-update-letter

Please pray for another opportunity that has been given to I AM Ministries in the country of Burundi, Africa. The president of the country invited us last year to come and preach. As a result of this invite, we have one of the national pastors from Zambia by the name of Douglas Sakuwaha, and two pastors who have resigned their churches here to become missionaries in Zambia going to preach in Burundi in July.

Bro. Douglas, John and David! And as we know, the President blew them off! When John wrote about Burundi he made it seem as though getting the President's invitation was all his work. Nope, he was along for the ride and I AM got the invitation.

A couple of things that strike me about I AM Ministries: Bonner and Anderson have been there since 1988 and, although they describe everything they do in glowing terms (Praise the LORD), I wouldn't find their record that impressive as a potential donor. The Bible Institute has trained 150 "nationals" in 25 years. Six a year. How many of those pastors have quit along the way or found to be unworthy? Although they claim to have planted 300 churches in 5 different countries. how many of those churches are still going? I do give them credit for the clinic at Kafulafuta, but what does the clinic actually do? There is precious little documentation online of the clinic or the other churches they claim to have established. A very disorganized and badly documented Ministry. The updates seem to get progressively vaguer as time goes on.

It also seems that Bonner has returned to the US for good although he is still fundraising for I AM. After his eleventieth!!! bout of malaria he may have retired. He seems to live currently in Blue Springs, Missouri and is now listed as the associate pastor and missionary at FBBC (whatever that is). All his references to Zambia have been in the past tense since 2012. Anderson is in his mid-sixties and is in Tanzania at the moment. He may retire soon too.

So the move to Kafue from Kafulafuta seems odd. Why aren't Rea and Shrader taking over there. I did a quick search and could only find one reference to Kafue on the I AM site. A "national" was asked to speak by Save the Children. No reference to an actual church planting, but I may have missed it.

The Kalfulafuta mud hut village footage on John's video is quite picturesque and now a bit misleading. Kafue is a city of 200,000. It is next to a massive Game Reserve frequented by tourists, it has a hospital, and is only 3 hours by car from Lusaka, one of the most "western" and developed cities in Africa. Hardly the "bush," although some culture shock is inevitable for people moving there.

[slickcat79]

The Kalfulafuta mud hut village footage on John's video is quite picturesque and now a bit misleading. Kafue is a city of 200,000. It is next to a massive Game Reserve frequented by tourists, it has a hospital, and is only 3 hours by car from Lusaka, one of the most "western" and developed cities in Africa. Hardly the "bush," although some culture shock is inevitable for people moving there.

Sounds like Dougie's manly romp to the wilds of the Amazon. Which was in fact a guided boat tour based out of a city of nearly half a million, containing tourist attractions and multiple universities :roll:

[Palimpsest]

Indeed!

Which is not to say that living in Kafue will be easy or have most of the mod cons that the Shraders and Reas are accustomed to in the US. I'm just relieved, for Esther and the children's sakes, that based in Kafue they will have better access to medical care than they would in a rural area.

For those who feel anxious when this thread gets bumped:

If Esther starts another baby or the Shraders actually reach Zambia, I propose we start another thread. Possible titles: "Another Blessing to Burden Burundi" and/or "the Zealot Finally Fucks up Zambia."

The mods can always merge the threads if they see fit.

[klavierspieler]

Glad you liked the dog food concept. :D

That is all very informative, especially about the structure - or lack thereof. Thank you! I'm not going to ask you to join the church again to satisfy my curiousity, although I'm tempted! :cracking-up:

I wouldn't be welcome anyway. I'm one of those gays working to destroy America, and none of them speak to me anymore. Also, I'm an ebil librul and have an occasional glass of wine, so I was already going to hell even before I came out of the closet. ;)

As a former Missionary Kid, I'm used to real missions (CMS, BMS, SIM, and so on). These unaffiliated church planters were always regarded as a total nuisance, perpetually in need of rescuing by long-term medical missionaries like my parents.

I did a bit more digging and the affiliation with I AM is now obvious. This from Anderson's (Bobby's side kick at I AM) news update last March. iamministries.info/andersons-march-2013-update-letter

Bro. Douglas, John and David! And as we know, the President blew them off! When John wrote about Burundi he made it seem as though getting the President's invitation was all his work. Nope, he was along for the ride and I AM got the invitation.

A couple of things that strike me about I AM Ministries: Bonner and Anderson have been there since 1988 and, although they describe everything they do in glowing terms (Praise the LORD), I wouldn't find their record that impressive as a potential donor. The Bible Institute has trained 150 "nationals" in 25 years. Six a year. How many of those pastors have quit along the way or found to be unworthy? Although they claim to have planted 300 churches in 5 different countries. how many of those churches are still going? I do give them credit for the clinic at Kafulafuta, but what does the clinic actually do? There is precious little documentation online of the clinic or the other churches they claim to have established. A very disorganized and badly documented Ministry. The updates seem to get progressively vaguer as time goes on.

It also seems that Bonner has returned to the US for good although he is still fundraising for I AM. After his eleventieth!!! bout of malaria he may have retired. He seems to live currently in Blue Springs, Missouri and is now listed as the associate pastor and missionary at FBBC (whatever that is). All his references to Zambia have been in the past tense since 2012. Anderson is in his mid-sixties and is in Tanzania at the moment. He may retire soon too.

So the move to Kafue from Kafulafuta seems odd. Why aren't Rea and Shrader taking over there. I did a quick search and could only find one reference to Kafue on the I AM site. A "national" was asked to speak by Save the Children. No reference to an actual church planting, but I may have missed it.

The Kalfulafuta mud hut village footage on John's video is quite picturesque and now a bit misleading. Kafue is a city of 200,000. It is next to a massive Game Reserve frequented by tourists, it has a hospital, and is only 3 hours by car from Lusaka, one of the most "western" and developed cities in Africa. Hardly the "bush," although some culture shock is inevitable for people moving there.

I guess it just isn't odd to me since the unaffiliated church planters were all I ever knew. I heard a lot about the SBC model (where the SBC convention has a board who approves and funds the missionaries rather than the churches doing it directly), but they were too liberal for the church I grew up in. The notion was that forcing the missionaries to go church to church begging for support made them more accountable to their supporters and allowed each church to ensure they lined up with every single petty doctrinal point. I still get caught up short sometimes at how the rest of the world views the things I grew up seeing as normal, but in hindsight it does seem shoddy and unorganized. The lack of information on I AM's webpage doesn't really surprise me either, since the individual missionaries would be expected to send monthly prayer letters (like, actual physical letters) to every church that supports them reporting on what's going on, and as long as that gets done that's all that needs to be done.

Bobby Bonner has indeed retired now. The last I heard about him before I really fell out of touch with everyone I used to know is that his heart was only operating at about 20% due to the vast number of illnesses he contracted during his time on the field (not sure if that's the correct terminology, I am *not* a medical person) and if he contracted malaria again he would definitely not survive. He felt he could do more for God alive and living in the US raising money for I AM than he could if he were dead in Africa.

I have no idea how many churches are still open or what all I AM entails now. As you said, they have the clinic. As of 2006? 2007? (I forget) they have a orphanage/day school for deaf children in Luanshya run by this guy: https://www.facebook.com/dick.jarvis.52?fref=ts (link not broken because it goes to a public Facebook page). There is a church specifically for the deaf in Ndola, and a regular church that I know of staffed by a local pastor in Lusaka. They do a lot of preaching out in the "bush" and revival type meetings as well.

The part in the video about converting the witch doctor amused me. If the missionaries who came through my church growing up were to be believed (Bobby Bonner included), I'm surprised there are any witch doctors left in Africa to be converted. :stir-pot:

[formergothardite]

I dreamed last night that the Shrader family showed up at my door wanting to camp out in my back yard till they leave and I let them. In my dream John was as big of a jerk as he seems to be on FB.

[Palimpsest]

I dreamed last night that the Shrader family showed up at my door wanting to camp out in my back yard till they leave and I let them. In my dream John was as big of a jerk as he seems to be on FB.

Was that a dream or a nightmare? Just in case they do show up on your doorstep, expect them to stay until until March, 2014! I guess this is good news for the safety of the kids.

John's latest FB update:

Prayer Request! Prayer Request!!

Dearest Friends who Pray for us,

I could really use your prayers on a specific need over the next few months! Many of you already know God has provided a plane for our ministry, which is already in Zambia (pictured). I have been counseled by current and former missionary pilots from Zambia to first get my Private Pilot's Certificate here in the US before going to Zambia, for three main reasons. It is much harder to find instructors in Zambia, as well as MUCH more costly as well as additional difficulties, so I am heeding this counsel and God has provided a missionary aviation training opportunity 70 miles from our Sending Church, Valley Baptist church, where we presently are. Please pray that God will help me quickly and effectively grasp the training. We would love to have this training wrapped up and be headed for Zambia by next March if the Lord will. Thank you dear friends, your prayers mean so much to us.

I have no idea how long it takes to get a private pilot's license or what it entails. Anyone?

Even if he is getting free lessons I wonder how much it costs for actual plane rental and flight time for however many hours of solo flight he needs to get the license.

[formergothardite]

I wonder if the family that fixed them the huge Thanksgiving dinner because they would be in Zambia for Thanksgiving is annoyed. By March something else will come up that will delay the trip to Zambia.

[Trynn]

I looked into getting a pilots license once, to see if it would cure my fear of flying. It was TREMENDOUSLY expensive, and I was an adult teenager living with my parents, who were pretty well off and able to afford it (albeit not without some cutbacks). In the end I decided not to go that route, because my phobia of flying is too ridiculous, but that's beside the point.

I can not imagine somebody living in a popup camper would be able to afford any sort of flying lessons, let alone afford the hours of flying time you'd need.

What this man doesn't need is flying lessons, what this man needs is a paying job so he can support his eleventy billion children. If I had kids, I wouldn't even THINK about flying until I could be damn sure I could give them a REAL home, food everyday, and other necessities I Don't feel like listing atm.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I looked into getting a pilots license once, to see if it would cure my fear of flying. It was TREMENDOUSLY expensive, and I was an adult teenager living with my parents, who were pretty well off and able to afford it (albeit not without some cutbacks). In the end I decided not to go that route, because my phobia of flying is too ridiculous, but that's beside the point.

I can not imagine somebody living in a popup camper would be able to afford any sort of flying lessons, let alone afford the hours of flying time you'd need.

What this man doesn't need is flying lessons, what this man needs is a paying job so he can support his eleventy billion children. If I had kids, I wouldn't even THINK about flying until I could be damn sure I could give them a REAL home, food everyday, and other necessities I Don't feel like listing atm.

They live in a pop up camper because selfish John doesn't have a job and uses the money he does get to go towards his dreams of annoying the people of Zambia instead of giving his family a proper home.

Why is this acceptable to do just because theyre attaching God to it. They would look down on someone like Lauren who also is pretty much homeless, has more than the average number of kids, and spent the money she does get on vacation to France and getting her dreads maintained instead of buying a house and feeding the kids.

[StacyW]

A private pilot license requires 40 hours in the air. It took me months to get mine because I only flew once or twice per week, but if that's all you're doing of course it will go much faster.

[formergothardite]

If he is living in a city why does he need a plane and isn't it going to be expensive to keep it up?

[Palimpsest]

John has supposedly been taking free flying lessons from a retired missionary-type and "studying" for his licence since March, 2013. God made it possible for them to buy the expensive plane he doesn't know how to fly in February, 2013.

I don't think John has ever given us a real rationale for the need for a plane. God says he needed it. Or John always wanted to be a flyboy.

And a quick blast from the past lest we forget what a selfish git this man really is. This was the situation in John's own words on March 6th, 2013 while Esther was in labor (and had been for days) with Sophia.

Sorry for the lack of updates. Been hard on daddy cooking, cleaning, babysitting, changing lots of poopy diapers, all while trying to care for my beloved sweetheart. She was on bedrest most of last week. Had a midwife appointment Monday and Sophia is at either a +1 or a 0 position, not sure why she just doesn't come on out! Esther is a little frustrated at times, but handling it like the Godly lady that she is. She amazes me, but this has been trying for her. Baby is fine, recently had a non stress test and continues to move and respond well, heart tones great, responds to daddy's voice. Just waiting. Would appreciate your specific prayers she comes soon! On top of all this our camper is broken, electrical and maybe the fridge down as well. Please pray we can get it fixed soon. It's at the repair facility now, I finally had time to take it yesterday. I have taxes, expense reports, & a newsletter and prayer update to get done. Add trying to continue my studies for pilot training and it's quite the list. To top it all off, my sister has stage 4 pancreatic cancer. My health has been suffering as well. Deputation is physically demanding, & it's hard to eat healthy. I've started gaining even more weight and my back is bothering me more frequently, as well as being very fatigued. It's I made a decision to start a 30 day juice fast. I'll let you know how that goes. I'm sorry for frustrating some with the lack of info, please be patient with me as I care for my wife, children, ministry, and myself. Thanks for caring and praying. - John

Oh, poor, poor John! It was all so hard on Daddy. :roll: :roll: :roll:

[formergothardite]

In march of 2014 how much time will his kids have spent living in a camper? I wonder how long he can be on deputation before people stop supporting him.

[anjulibai]

Esther will be pregnant again, by that point.

[gustava]

A private pilot license requires 40 hours in the air. It took me months to get mine because I only flew once or twice per week, but if that's all you're doing of course it will go much faster.

And ground school for the written test. Wonder if he's actually going to get a license or merely "learn to fly" so he can do so in Zambia. Perhaps the better question is what does Zambia require?

[Palimpsest]

In march of 2014 how much time will his kids have spent living in a camper? I wonder how long he can be on deputation before people stop supporting him.

They got the camper in June 2012 but I'm not sure when they finally sold their house and went on the road permanently. This is the original thread: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10779&start=60

John has always depended on the kindness of others to support his family. See the post on page 4 of the above thread where in 2011 he thanks people for paying off his debts, paying the midwife and giving him a free van. That was when he was starting a church in the Dalles, Oregon. I seem to remember his family, and perhaps also the Kellers, helped buy him the house in the Dalles too. :shrug:

[formergothardite]

Esther will be pregnant again, by that point.

Yep. And I bet they will then say they need to wait till after the baby is born to leave. I will not be surprised if next year at this time they are still living in a pop-up camper because he refuses to get a job.

[anjulibai]

Yep. And I bet they will then say they need to wait till after the baby is born to leave. I will not be surprised if next year at this time they are still living in a pop-up camper because he refuses to get a job.

I really believe John has no desire to go to Zambia. He might like going there for a week or two once a year, but that's it. He'll use Zambia to get people to support him for a few more years and then God will tell him to do something else (i.e. people will catch on to his scam, so he'll have to find another scam).

I really feel for Esther and those kids. They deserve better. I hope Esther sees the light at some point and asks some church they are scamming to help set her up with a job so she can leave John.

[snickerz]

Silly John, who needs a pilot's license? That's just government bureaucracy! All you need to do is trust God! Surely he'll help you figure out all those pesky dials and things when you're airborne. Engine's making weird knocking sounds and sputtering mid-flight? Just send out a prayer request on FB...you'll be fine!

[Patsy]

Silly John, who needs a pilot's license? That's just government bureaucracy! All you need to do is trust God! Surely he'll help you figure out all those pesky dials and things when you're airborne. Engine's making weird knocking sounds and sputtering mid-flight? Just send out a prayer request on FB...you'll be fine!

Hell, who needs a plane? It's called the THEORY of gravity, not the fact!

[socalrules]

Why does he need a pilot's license or a plane anyway? I don't understand how that relates to being a missionary or whatever he intends to do. I assume that he doesn't plan on flying in food for the starving or medicine for the sick.