Burden to Burundi, Zealous for Zambia

[nellautumngirl]

Do you think Esther would say something if one of the children gets seriously ill or, god forbid, dies? Not like leaving him, but convincing him to go back to the US? I know she's the most "faithful" one of the Kellers, but she seems to love her children.

[salex]

If Esther receives vaccinations would her breast milk provide protection to the newborn til he/she is old enough to receive vaccinations?

My ex husband had shingles late in one of my pregnancies and the midwives told me not to worry, my chicken pox immunity would protect the baby. Until I told them that I'd never had chicken pox (they were working on the assumption that almost all Australians my age have). But then I couldn't receive the vaccine whilst pregnant, so it could well be the same with the vaccines Esther needs. I hope they're not going to take an unvaccinated expectant mother into an environment which she has no genetic or immune resistance for the diseases of and have her give birth to a similarly unprotected new born.

I suspect John and possibly Esther believe if she is called, God will protect her.

[anjulibai]

John has a new FB post up, quoting the children.

Agape, who is only 5, has been helping watching babies. Nehemiah wanted to talk about his sisters, but couldn't. His age was also given by John as 6, even though in the quote Nehemiah mentions he just turned 7. Not yet 1 Sophia can say Bible.

[lilith]

Do you think Esther would say something if one of the children gets seriously ill or, god forbid, dies? Not like leaving him, but convincing him to go back to the US? I know she's the most "faithful" one of the Kellers, but she seems to love her children.

She had her daughter perform a piece recently about a 19th century lady who wrote a hymn. The daughter spoke about how the woman's first three children all died within three months. She was very sad, but then realised that was selfish, because the kids were with Jesus, so she should be happy. She put her sorrow into writing the hymn and glorifying god, so all good, and all god's will.

Esther would have chosen that piece for her, and I believe that Esther would try to make herself believe that a "child going home to Jesus" was really a blessing, and that God's will for her husband to save the souls of Africa must not be disrupted by the demons trying to make her sad.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Poor babies :( I hope theyre okay and don't die :( I hope one of their relatives steps in and tells John that his idea is ridiculous, and says they want to take the kids and raise them in America, in a real house that isn't a tent or church basement, where they can have a decent life.

[formergothardite]

This is going to end badly if he gets to Zambia. There is no way that it couldn't.

[Arete]

This is honestly turning into the most frightening and chilling thread I have ever followed on this board. :(

Both Shraeder parents seem to be asking for child martyrs, him directly and her through passive acceptance. They have no business in Zambia, or being parents.

[nellautumngirl]

She had her daughter perform a piece recently about a 19th century lady who wrote a hymn. The daughter spoke about how the woman's first three children all died within three months. She was very sad, but then realised that was selfish, because the kids were with Jesus, so she should be happy. She put her sorrow into writing the hymn and glorifying god, so all good, and all god's will.

Esther would have chosen that piece for her, and I believe that Esther would try to make herself believe that a "child going home to Jesus" was really a blessing, and that God's will for her husband to save the souls of Africa must not be disrupted by the demons trying to make her sad.

You're probably right. I always want to believe that love is stronger than this craziness.

[realist51]

Do you think the Kellers have the decency to sleep poorly at night after marrying their daughter off to this idiot? I can't believe this. Could we hope that the Duggars are less idiotic than this guy and that Anna and Josh might intervene? What about the siblings who left the fold? Could they legally go for custody of these kids?

[scc12]

I'm guessing not,but idk for sure.It's just that it isn't illegal to take your kids out of the country.And so far,they seem healthy and taken care of,just not living in the best of circumstances.

[scc12]

You're probably right. I always want to believe that love is stronger than this craziness.

common sense is stronger than this craziness!

If you're lucky enough to be born in the US,then perhaps God wants you to stay (live) here.

[SPHASH]

As much as I can't stand Smuggar who has had everything handed to him and Davey, at least they are supporting their families and not grifting.

[Trynn]

common sense is stronger than this craziness!

If you're lucky enough to be born in the US,then perhaps God wants you to stay (live) here.

I dunno, I've always wanted to go live in Europe for a while...

[scc12]

I dunno, I've always wanted to go live in Europe for a while...

I mean,as compared to the craziness of living in a third world country.

[Lillybee]

Poor Esther, she must be exhausted. She has 8 children under 12 with probably no one able to be a family slave just yet.

Her last two births were pretty difficult and yet she is pregnant again. She hasn't had a real home for years. Her husband has to be the most selfish man in the world. I would almost prefer to live in Maxhell than live her life. At least the Maxwell men support their wives and families. I think that her life is joyless and poor thing, she is stuck supporting her visionary man. No thanks to Debi Pearl.

[uber frau]

I don't mean to minimise how hard her life is, but if the five year old is helping with the babies, I'm willing to bet the older girls are doing a fair bit of 'helping' too. The Duggerettes were completely responsible for their buddies well before they hit double digits. I imagine things are similar in the Shrader household.

[Palimpsest]

I mean,as compared to the craziness of living in a third world country.

I think that is way too sweeping. There are ways for families to live in developing countries responsibly and safely (third world is a perjorative phrase that I don't use). Just ask the Military, Foreign Services, UN and international NGO employees, many business people, and "real" religious Missionary Organizations who have had people safely in the field for years. "Real" missionaries have skills to offer in the field and evangelizing takes a distant second place to aid, expertise and education. IMO, of course. :)

The Shrader and Rea little independent "mission" doesn't count as a real missionary organization to this former MK and daughter of second generation missionaries to countries that were far less developed that Zambia is today. I survived, as did my brother and my TCK friends. The vast majority of us actually appreciate our experiences growing up overseas today.

Begin rant/

The Shraders are insults to genuine missionaries. The Poisonwood Bible is an excellent representation of asswipes like John Shrader who put their families at risk for no good reason.

John Shrader is a conceited asshole who is a failure by most standards in the USA. The only things he seems to be successful at doing are impregnating his wife and grifting money to support his family because he can't hold down a real job or start a successful business in the US. Preaching is easier than working and John does seem to have the gift of the gab.

Johnny-Boy wants to be a big man in a small pond in Africa preaching to the unwashed, unsaved, "natives" in the "bush." He also wants to fly a plane and act like a dashing flyboy. If he wants those things then surely God wants him to have them?

So he just says that he is called by God to convert Africans and the money rolls in from people who are ignorant and brainwashed, and have drunk the koolade along with Esther. Don't count on the Duggars or the Kellers to intervene. They probably see John as a "Visionary Man inspired by God" too.

/end rant.

Oh, and did anyone else catch this? John is leaving pregnant Esther alone with all 8 kids under 12 to spend 4 days a week at the airfield learning to fly. He is staying over 3 nights a week at a church near the airfield. Her needs and the well-being of the family are always going to come second to John's selfish pipe dreams.

[Arete]

I doubt that he is of any real use to Esther as a parent even when he is "present". All indicators point to him being one more child she has to clean up after.

I wish that the system that approves VISAs at the Zambian end was able to flag useless, grifting "missionaries", of which I am sure Shraeder is not the first. "You want to bring 7 unvaccinated children and your pregnant wife into the country and have us clean up the mess while you play missionary? You of no practical skills? Oh hell no, stay home." It would just be better if they could keep him away. Those children get sick and they are going to need resources sick Zambian children need and should have priority for. I don't even want to imagine what could happen to those children if Esther is incapacitated for any length of time from the pregnancy.

God have mercy, someone is going to get hurt, and it probably won't be Shraeder.

[Palimpsest]

I looked up the Visa requirements for Zambia while ago. In order for John and family to get visas as missionaries in Zambia they must have proof in advance that all their expenses in country will be covered by the Sending Church. The visas are issued on an annual basis.

Actually, this might explain John's sudden attention to immunizations. He has ignored that pesky little issue before and probably went to Burundi and Zambia before on tourist visas where immunizations are not required for entry. Typical of John's bass-ackward thinking.

It may be that the Zambian residential visas will not be issued without proof of medical insurance, and no insurance company will cover non-immunized folk heading off to Zambia thus the new fundraising. One can but hope.

[formergothardite]

As much as I can't stand Smuggar who has had everything handed to him and Davey, at least they are supporting their families and not grifting.

Josh and David seem like amazing husbands compared to John. They did a bad job with picking out a husband for Esther. At least Josh and David aren't putting the lives of their children in danger.

[Justme]

How long are they planning on staying? Could they use a tourist visa and just "overstay"?

[Trynn]

How long are they planning on staying? Could they use a tourist visa and just "overstay"?

Only of they don't get caught. Then they could be deported, and good luck getting a legit visa after that.

[Coconut Flan]

That works for me. The he can't go back. Perhaps he'd then be forced to find real work and settle down to his responsibilities.

[Justme]

Only of they don't get caught. Then they could be deported, and good luck getting a legit visa after that.

deported hauh.... Then they can't come back.....

[Palimpsest]

deported hauh.... Then they can't come back.....

Deported, steep fines and possible incarceration in Zambia prior to deportation hearings! Additional fines and jail time for conducting business on a tourist visa. travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/country/zambia.html

Only a fool would risk that. Oh, wait ...