Burden to Burundi, Zealous for Zambia

[formergothardite]

Something must have happened. I do think there is trouble in Team Zambia world.

[SPHASH]

Speaking as a travel agent I have to say travel insurance is the best investment you can make. I'm astonished at how here in the Upper Midwest where winter travel is unpredictable some people will drop 10k on an all-inclusive trip to Jamaica but won't spend $400 for travel insurance.

[Ellimenopy]

Something must have happened. I do think there is trouble in Team Zambia world.

Good. Every month John is struggling here is one month he's not inflicting himself on Zambia or Zambia on his wife and children. Although I do hope it is nothing to do with Esther.

[Trynn]

I'm getting kinda worried that something might be wrong with Esther and the baby.

[Miggy]

Is it possible he was told to remove everything so it didn't interfere with his visas being processed? I know it is standard now before doing job interviews to look up all the candidates Facebook pages. It would make sense to do the same when doing security checks on someone before issuing a visa.

[Palimpsest]

It's still "blank"..... :o What happens to trip his trigger, any ideas??? Do people send him private messages that bruise his fragile ego? I haven't seen anything "negative" posted on his newsfeed. Though, I guess he could delete them.... :think:

I suspect it is any sort of criticism from people he knows IRL (not infidels like us and Sharon Bailgoat) AND a realization that he has made an even bigger fool of himself than usual. The last time he flipped his lid was when a friend or a person he had "friended" on FB (it wasn't clear) criticized him.

Speculation only: he just found out that there's a snowball's chance in hell that the visas are going to come through by June. Buying all those plane tickets was really stupid without the approved visas in hand. So he wipes his page and claims persecution. His public FB seems to be a significant part of his fundraising campaign.

Someone asked above if the family could go into Zambia on Tourist visas to start with. I think it is highly unlikely that they would be allowed in as tourists now because of a) the one-way tickets and b) the pending visa/work permit applications. Although I always want to put quotes around John and the word "work," he could be subject to major fines and possible incarceration if he went in as a tourist and started setting up his mission business without the work permit.

[Palimpsest]

Bumping to say that John Shrader's FB is still blank and now Esther's page has been cleared of all content for the last 3 years. Miggy may well be right about his being advised to take it down because of the pending visas. I don't think Esther and the baby are having issues.

I'm missing keeping tabs on John but I don't think he'll be able to stay silent long. Asking for money and prayer are second nature for him. He's already reactivated his rarely used twitter account.

His latest tweet:

John Shrader â€@missionsmuse · Apr 8

Paperwork 4 visas submitted by a national pastor 2day in Zambia! Getting excited!! Please pray 4 a 3 week approval time instead of 3 months!

Perhaps you should have waited to buy those tickets, John.

[Arete]

Bumping to say that John Shrader's FB is still blank and now Esther's page has been cleared of all content for the last 3 years. Miggy may well be right about his being advised to take it down because of the pending visas. I don't think Esther and the baby are having issues.

I'm missing keeping tabs on John but I don't think he'll be able to stay silent long. Asking for money and prayer are second nature for him. He's already reactivated his rarely used twitter account.

His latest tweet:

Perhaps you should have waited to buy those tickets, John.

The only thing I am willing to pray about for him is that the person processing the visa application in Zambia will consider any "missionary" trying to enter with eight kids under the age of 10 a bad bet.

[uber frau]

Is it legal to enter Zambia with the express purpose of being a missionary? I'm guessing so, since John has no actual skills.

He can't even officially go as an 'English teacher' since Zambia has enough English teachers of its own.

[Trynn]

Well, apparently it's legal in Canada, so it's probably legal in Zambia too.

[Palimpsest]

Is it legal to enter Zambia with the express purpose of being a missionary? I'm guessing so, since John has no actual skills.

He can't even officially go as an 'English teacher' since Zambia has enough English teachers of its own.

Yes. Zambia is apparently fine with missionaries with no skills other than preaching -- so long as they can prove their sending church will be responsible for supporting them financially throughout their stay. Zambia probably likes the money coming in from overseas more than it dislikes the proselytizing.

Technically, as a missionary, John could apply for his work permit from within Zambia. I'm guessing that IAM Ministries has learned that it is better to have a "national pastor" file the paperwork for work permits while missionaries are still in the USA.

From what I've gathered just browsing a few blogs of missionaries in Zambia, getting into Zambia isn't the problem -- unless you are arriving on one-way tickets with a pending visa/work permit application, eight minor children and a pregnant wife. Immigration might have a problem with that.

An LDS blog I found a couple of months ago but can't find again for some reason, sorry, was very informative. Staying in Zambia legally as a missionary is an ongoing problem. You have to carry your paperwork (passport, work permit and car authorization) with you at all times and there are frequent road blocks. Extending your permits is onerous and basically a matter of luck in getting an immigration official who likes the looks of you on any given day. Bribery Augmenting the salaries of government officials is a semi-official method of doing business as missionaries in Zambia. I wonder how Shrader will feel about that!

[Ellimenopy]

Yes. Zambia is apparently fine with missionaries with no skills other than preaching -- so long as they can prove their sending church will be responsible for supporting them financially throughout their stay. Zambia probably likes the money coming in from overseas more than it dislikes the proselytizing.

Technically, as a missionary, John could apply for his work permit from within Zambia. I'm guessing that IAM Ministries has learned that it is better to have a "national pastor" file the paperwork for work permits while missionaries are still in the USA.

From what I've gathered just browsing a few blogs of missionaries in Zambia, getting into Zambia isn't the problem -- unless you are arriving on one-way tickets with a pending visa/work permit application, eight minor children and a pregnant wife. Immigration might have a problem with that.

An LDS blog I found a couple of months ago but can't find again for some reason, sorry, was very informative. Staying in Zambia legally as a missionary is an ongoing problem. You have to carry your paperwork (passport, work permit and car authorization) with you at all times and there are frequent road blocks. Extending your permits is onerous and basically a matter of luck in getting an immigration official who likes the looks of you on any given day. Bribery Augmenting the salaries of government officials is a semi-official method of doing business as missionaries in Zambia. I wonder how Shrader will feel about that!

Between the damn plane and John's lack of cultural sensitivity/ aversion to work, I'm pretty sure he's going to get himself killed if ever gets to Zambia.

[Palimpsest]

Between the damn plane and John's lack of cultural sensitivity/ aversion to work, I'm pretty sure he's going to get himself killed if ever gets to Zambia.

Agreed. If it were just John, that is his risk and I'd find it hard to give a flying fuck.

The problem is that he is taking Esther and 8 (probably soon 9 and counting) children along for the ride.

John is an irresponsible selfish asshole.

[SPHASH]

Agreed. If it were just John, that is his risk and I'd find it hard to give a flying fuck.

The problem is that he is taking Esther and 8 (probably soon 9 and counting) children along for the ride.

John is an irresponsible selfish asshole.

My worry is John will either get himself killed or thrown in prison and Esther and the nine kids are stuck there.

[countressrascal]

Here is a web site that gives you the requirements for a business visa- http://zambia.travisa.com

They are usually good for 3 months however can renewed. Plus it only takes 5-10 days for processing.

[Ellimenopy]

:shhh:

My worry is John will either get himself killed or thrown in prison and Esther and the nine kids are stuck there.

Is it wrong that I kind of hope that something happens to him? It's the only way that I see Esther getting any kind of consideration in the near future. If she was a widow, their religion obliges others to step in and stand up for her. She might end up in some kind of a stable situation for her family. As long as she's technically got a headship, however, nobody considers it any of their business.

[ViolaSebastian]

Is it wrong that I kind of hope that something happens to him? It's the only way that I see Esther getting any kind of consideration in the near future. If she was a widow, their religion obliges others to step in and stand up for her. She might end up in some kind of a stable situation for her family. As long as she's technically got a headship, however, nobody considers it any of their business.

Elimenopy, if this is wrong, I don't wanna be right.

I mean, I also hope he comes to his senses, Esther regains her sanity, and they both quit this quiverful b.s., get jobs in the United States, and feed and clothe the 8.5 kids they already have...but...there's hope and then there's reality.

[Palimpsest]

Here is a web site that gives you the requirements for a business visa- http://zambia.travisa.com

They are usually good for 3 months however can renewed. Plus it only takes 5-10 days for processing.

Yes, that is a temporary business visa. Unfortunately for John that won't work. It's very complicated.

John needs a long-term visa, work permit, and a residency permit too, and also separate visas for the 9 dependents he's bringing along with him. Esther needs a "spousal" visa and the 8 kids all need kiddie visas. ( I don't think the + 1 in the womb counts yet and s/he may be eligible for dual citizenship if born there.)

John also needs the residency permit to bring in his expensive brand new "Troupie" duty-free, and his freight container full of water purifiers, used mattresses, diapers and canning jars!

[Justme]

teehee, Maybe JohnEsther will get his Visa and Esther and the kids won't. What will he do then??? Will he take it as God's "way" of telling him he should go alone?? ;)

[Meeka]

It seems like John, Esther and their children have spent time living in the basement of a church. Is that even legal? Doesn't there have a be an occupancy permit in place for a person to actually in a building. I wouldn't expect a church to have one but maybe some churches do.

[mockingbird]

I found this on the US Department of State website:

According to the World Health Organization (WHO), Zambia is at “low risk†for yellow fever. The risk areas are primarily along the border with the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC). To date, there have been no reported cases of yellow fever in Zambia, although the Zambian government requires proof of yellow fever vaccination or a valid waiver certificate for all visitors.

http://travel.state.gov/content/passpor ... ambia.html

Sorry if this has been brought up before, I was just looking up something else on that website and thought to check out the Zambia page. Does he know about this requirement? And is he trying to get the waiver certificates or does he think he can just wing it? FWIW it sounds like the only exceptions you can make are medical - and people who would need these exceptions would be advised not to travel to endemic areas unless absolutely necessary. http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/yellowbook/ ... llow-fever

[Palimpsest]

It seems like John, Esther and their children have spent time living in the basement of a church. Is that even legal? Doesn't there have a be an occupancy permit in place for a person to actually in a building. I wouldn't expect a church to have one but maybe some churches do.

As I said on the other thread, I have no idea! From photos, Valley Baptist Church is largish in terms of sq. feet. Whether the basement is adequate housing for 20 odd people and has an occupancy permit -- your guess is as good as mine.

[Palimpsest]

I found this on the US Department of State website:

http://travel.state.gov/content/passpor ... ambia.html

Sorry if this has been brought up before, I was just looking up something else on that website and thought to check out the Zambia page. Does he know about this requirement? And is he trying to get the waiver certificates or does he think he can just wing it? FWIW it sounds like the only exceptions you can make are medical - and people who would need these exceptions would be advised not to travel to endemic areas unless absolutely necessary. http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/yellowbook/ ... llow-fever

As John was trying to drum up the cash to get immunizations (including rabies) for the whole family a month or so ago, I think he realizes that he can't wing it -- or get medical insurance or a residency permit without them.

Traveling as a tourist is at your own risk. Getting medical insurance for Sub-Saharan Africa without immunizations is impossible. Getting a Zambian residency permit without proof of medical insurance and vaccinations is extremely unlikely. However many objections you might have to vax, Zambia doesn't want foreigners getting sick and draining it's limited medical resources.

Disclaimer: I'm no expert. This is just what I've learned from watching Shrader twist in the wind and change his mind re. immunizations, some perusal of other Zambian missionary blogs, reading the website of the (quasi-legit?) outfit John is channeling his funding through, and scanning numerous and often confusing Zambia.gov sites. :)

[Justme]

Do they sleep in the basement? If they sleep in the pop-up, then they can probably get around any occupancy....

[Arete]

Even if it is an illegal occupancy, someone would have to report it for anything to be done. Church communities are usually not keen to have any level of government oversight, so it is unlikely anyone would report it.

If my guess is correct and at least some of the Shrader kids have never had a vaccination, they mercifully may be SOL. Some vaccinations are not a single shot but a series that must be spaced out. He isn't going to be able to catch them up in 8 weeks.