Burden to Burundi, Zealous for Zambia

[slickcat79]

I thought that he'd already passed his written (ground school) test. I just read the FAA FAQ's, and it seems that they require a Knowledge Test (aka ground school) and the flight proficiency. Does anyone know why he seems to be taking another written test?

He was also asking for good weather for his written and oral exams, and I can't imagine why that would matter :? Maybe he's so up his own ass with the grifting he can't remember what he already posted about.

[PurpleSheepleEater]

Every time I come to this thread I am amused at the outrage. Not that I think that what the Schraders are doing is good, I am 100% against pretty much all of it. But the truth is that every single missionary family that goes through fundie missions boards does and would do the exact same thing these guys are doing. The fundies don't consider it grifting, going from church to church to get support is what they think the bible says they must do. Living in poverty is also part of missions according to them. I have known many many fundie missions families and they are all just like this. Poor as dirt living in campers and church basements before traveling to whever they are going to "save" these people who they cannot even begin to culturally identify with.

So the fact is that there are hundreds of families just like the Schraders. To them this is not only normal but expected. The fundie culture praises missionaries the highest while expecting them to live as the lowest of the low. I wish some of you could experience being a member of a fundie church just so you could observe the parade of missionaries that come through every few weeks all year long. It's a ragtag sad bunch, forced to give their spiel and kids forced to perform the same thing church after church after church for months on end.

In my experience missionary kids turn their backs on fundamentalism specifically and religion in general in very large amounts. After living that as a child most of them want nothing to do with ever living that way again. The biggest rebels in bible college were missionary kids, most of whom were completely on their own for years as tweens/teens/young adults when they were sent back to the states for school while their parents stayed in the country they were missionaries to. I always felt bad for them, it's a crappy upbringing.

[formergothardite]

John seems to be going above and beyond most missionaries, though. I was raised around IFB missionaries and supporting them and they weren't asking for airplanes and brand new vehicles before they even reached the mission field. IME they didn't start asking for things like that until they had been established on the mission field for several years and could show how they were needed.

I've been in these churches with a revolving door of missionaries begging for money and I'm surprised at how much John is going after. I have been out of the fundie mindset for some bit so maybe the missionaries are greedier now.

[Palimpsest]

Every time I come to this thread I am amused at the outrage. Not that I think that what the Schraders are doing is good, I am 100% against pretty much all of it. But the truth is that every single missionary family that goes through fundie missions boards does and would do the exact same thing these guys are doing. The fundies don't consider it grifting, going from church to church to get support is what they think the bible says they must do. Living in poverty is also part of missions according to them. I have known many many fundie missions families and they are all just like this. Poor as dirt living in campers and church basements before traveling to whever they are going to "save" these people who they cannot even begin to culturally identify with.

So the fact is that there are hundreds of families just like the Schraders. To them this is not only normal but expected. The fundie culture praises missionaries the highest while expecting them to live as the lowest of the low. I wish some of you could experience being a member of a fundie church just so you could observe the parade of missionaries that come through every few weeks all year long. It's a ragtag sad bunch, forced to give their spiel and kids forced to perform the same thing church after church after church for months on end.

In my experience missionary kids turn their backs on fundamentalism specifically and religion in general in very large amounts. After living that as a child most of them want nothing to do with ever living that way again. The biggest rebels in bible college were missionary kids, most of whom were completely on their own for years as tweens/teens/young adults when they were sent back to the states for school while their parents stayed in the country they were missionaries to. I always felt bad for them, it's a crappy upbringing.

Now, now, PurpleSheepleEater, you've been holding out on us. Spill more details, please!

Look, we know that Shrader is not the only IFB missionary out there doing this Deputation thing or Church Planting with no apparent skills to share whatsoever -- other than knowing the only correct path to Jebus. We snark on him more than others probably because of the Keller/Duggar connection. Mind you, the Lockwoods have also come in for a fair share of outrage and criticism.

As Formergothardite says, there are a few things that stand out about Shrader's exceptional irresponsibility and general nuttiness even within this group. Buying a plane before you can fly it and general spendiness on brand new Troupies is just one of them. His mission trip to Burundi was an exercise in disaster. He proudly promised a "Crusade," mass conversions, a meeting with the Head of State -- which all fell through dramatically! And his donors didn't seem to turn a hair as he spun the story.

As a former Missionary Kid (parents were Medical Missionaries working with a "real" Missionary Society in Africa back in the Dark Ages) one of the things that fascinates me about John Shrader is that he doesn't seem to be responsible to any Missionary Board. He is just an independent IFB bozo living off others and promising vague things to get money from naïve leg-humpers in the USA.

He also has no apparent accountability to anyone other than his "sending church," no missionary training in cultural sensitivity, and no safety net of an established group behind him. The Poisonwood Bible has come up many times in Shrader threads. "Real Missionaries" (if you will forgive the expression) like my parents held the ignorant assholes of "pretend missionaries" John Shraders of this world in contempt. They got fed up with rescuing them and their families from the dire straits they got into through their ignorance and arrogance.

I remember making the rounds of Churches to increase donations to the Mission when home on leave, but we never slept on the floors of church basements! My parents were salaried and insured. My father was particularly good at inspiring Church youth groups to fund raise for specific items. One of the most popular was buying a mule for a trained health worker to visit places where there were no roads. Churches probably did donate to the mission as a whole, but the "show and tell" was less for the support of the family and more towards specific empowering concrete items for the country where we lived.

One other difference from what you state above, the John Shraders and Lockwoods of this world do not send their children home to boarding schools and Bible College. The kids are home-schooled and college is rarely part of the picture at all. The kids are expected to stay on in the mission field in perpetuity with their parents in several of the IFB families I've looked at recently. I do agree that quite a few Missionary Kids do renounce religion, unless they become missionaries themselves. In my experience -- that was about 50/50 in rejecting the missionary/religious life.

So my outrage at John Shrader is because I fear that there are too many others out there just like him!

[karismanic]

I went to a local Mothers of Preschoolers meeting, and -- lo and behold -- a member's brother was there raising funds for his own trip to Zambia. At least his is affiliated with an actual mission organization that's been in the country a few years, unlike John's.

Maybe he'll get to rescue the poor guy and his family.

[Mama Mia]

I would think the constantly moving around in a pop-up would also put a damper on going to the regular doctor visits where most children get vaccinated. It is possible that the kids are fully vaxed, go to their yearly well check-ups and have great dental care, but this is the guy who dangled a fan from the roof of their van with it hanging directly in front of a child, so I just don't see his children's health and safety being a big priority to him.

I am really curios as to why he is keeping quiet this long. Usually he would go private and then quickly go public after wiping things from his FB. I wonder if he is worried that they aren't going to be allowed into Zambia and he is trying to make his humiliation as private as possible.

When my kids were little ( and even when I was a kid in the late60s-early 70s) the County Health Clinic gave out immunizations a couple of afternoons a month. You could take your kid in just for the vaccinations, without doing a full Doctor appointment. As far as I remember all the school required vaccinations were free. It was pretty convenient, especially for the vaccinations that came in a series spaced a closely together, or a new vaccine was introduced, or if a booster was needed. I don't know if they still offer this though. I imagine the Doctors giving the shots also were on the lookout for any obvious illness or developmental issues as well.

A relative of mine recently had to have the rabies vaccines due to a dog bite. While they are much better than the ordeal they used to be, it was still a huge hassle. They would only do it through the emergency department of the hospital, she had to pay the very high emergency room co-pay every day ($100 each day ) , and had to endure the usual two to four hour emergency room wait every single time.

[PurpleSheepleEater]

Now, now, PurpleSheepleEater, you've been holding out on us. Spill more details, please!

Look, we know that Shrader is not the only IFB missionary out there doing this Deputation thing or Church Planting with no apparent skills to share whatsoever -- other than knowing the only correct path to Jebus. We snark on him more than others probably because of the Keller/Duggar connection. Mind you, the Lockwoods have also come in for a fair share of outrage and criticism.

As Formergothardite says, there are a few things that stand out about Shrader's exceptional irresponsibility and general nuttiness even within this group. Buying a plane before you can fly it and general spendiness on brand new Troupies is just one of them. His mission trip to Burundi was an exercise in disaster. He proudly promised a "Crusade," mass conversions, a meeting with the Head of State -- which all fell through dramatically! And his donors didn't seem to turn a hair as he spun the story.

As a former Missionary Kid (parents were Medical Missionaries working with a "real" Missionary Society in Africa back in the Dark Ages) one of the things that fascinates me about John Shrader is that he doesn't seem to be responsible to any Missionary Board. He is just an independent IFB bozo living off others and promising vague things to get money from naïve leg-humpers in the USA.

He also has no apparent accountability to anyone other than his "sending church," no missionary training in cultural sensitivity, and no safety net of an established group behind him. The Poisonwood Bible has come up many times in Shrader threads. "Real Missionaries" (if you will forgive the expression) like my parents held the ignorant assholes of "pretend missionaries" John Shraders of this world in contempt. They got fed up with rescuing them and their families from the dire straits they got into through their ignorance and arrogance.

I remember making the rounds of Churches to increase donations to the Mission when home on leave, but we never slept on the floors of church basements! My parents were salaried and insured. My father was particularly good at inspiring Church youth groups to fund raise for specific items. One of the most popular was buying a mule for a trained health worker to visit places where there were no roads. Churches probably did donate to the mission as a whole, but the "show and tell" was less for the support of the family and more towards specific empowering concrete items for the country where we lived.

One other difference from what you state above, the John Shraders and Lockwoods of this world do not send their children home to boarding schools and Bible College. The kids are home-schooled and college is rarely part of the picture at all. The kids are expected to stay on in the mission field in perpetuity with their parents in several of the IFB families I've looked at recently. I do agree that quite a few Missionary Kids do renounce religion, unless they become missionaries themselves. In my experience -- that was about 50/50 in rejecting the missionary/religious life.

So my outrage at John Shrader is because I fear that there are too many others out there just like him!

They are with a mission board. Global Independent Baptist Mission. It's linked on their website teamzambia.com/ and if you go to the GIBM site the schraders are listed as missionaries with them.

On the Schraders missionary website about us section he lists many places that are IFB which is what I was so that's why everything he's doing is totally familiar to me. He did graduate from Bible college and I really do expect that they will send their kids, at least the boys, to bible college as well. I don't know what it's like now but when I attended many schools gave much reduced tuition to missionary kids.

I loosely follow a former classmate who is now an IFB missionary. The dramatics and all that are much the same. Also I am generally appalled at the use of photos and names of people when gossiping about them, all in the name of needing prayer of course. It's so exploitative. I don't know that it will ever change though. These people are convinced they are doing God's will and I don't know what would change their minds.

[Palimpsest]

They are with a mission board. Global Independent Baptist Mission. It's linked on their website teamzambia.com/ and if you go to the GIBM site the schraders are listed as missionaries with them.

On the Schraders missionary website about us section he lists many places that are IFB which is what I was so that's why everything he's doing is totally familiar to me. He did graduate from Bible college and I really do expect that they will send their kids, at least the boys, to bible college as well. I don't know what it's like now but when I attended many schools gave much reduced tuition to missionary kids.

I loosely follow a former classmate who is now an IFB missionary. The dramatics and all that are much the same. Also I am generally appalled at the use of photos and names of people when gossiping about them, all in the name of needing prayer of course. It's so exploitative. I don't know that it will ever change though. These people are convinced they are doing God's will and I don't know what would change their minds.

Ah. This may be a matter of semantics. I'm not arguing with you per se, just pointing out how very fishy this looks to outsiders.

Global Independent Baptist Mission is not what I would call a "Board." I see a Mission Board as an entity with authority over individual missionaries, quality assurance provisions, and a consistent mission statement. To say nothing of being a safety net.

I checked out GIBM a while ago and just looked again. To a cynic like me -- it's pretty much a shell organization!

It clearly identifies itself as only a "financial clearing house" and 501© - for tax purposes - for missionaries that are "associated" with it. They very specifically turn all responsibility for managing the "missionary" back on the "sending church."

gibmission.org [my bolding]

The Missions Office sends the missionary a 1099 for their taxes each year and makes available different insurance policies at their request. The Missions Office is registered as a 501C non-profit corporation for tax and exemption purposes.

We are glad to be able to help the sending churches in this way allowing them to maintain all authority over their missionaries in every way.

They advise getting medical insurance but they don't require it, and the Application to join is probably less detailed than an application to work at McDonald's although they do require a reference from a pastor, a letter from the "sending church," and a statement that the candidate will practice their Articles of Faith!

Missionary Qualifications

Each Candidate must by written statement:

· Give evidence of being Born Again.

· Give evidence of a Call to Missions

· Be a member of an Independent Baptist Church

· Give evidence of being a Soul Winner

· Give evidence of Spiritual Maturity

A candidate shall not be considered who has two living mates.

Candidates shall not be considered who engage in any conduct unbecoming to a Christian.

Candidates shall not be considered who do not completely agree with, teach, and practice the Articles of Faith of the Global Independent Baptist Fellowship.

Oh, so polygamists need not apply! :lol:

GIBM currently channels funds for and gives tax-free status to 32 "missionary families." This includes missionaries to such needy countries as Canada (1), Australia (1), Scotland (1) and the USA (7). They do have a smattering of missionaries to more exotic places. The Zambia (2) contingent is our friend John Shrader and his partner in misguidedness, David Rea. Neither family is in Zambia yet.

On Bible College: John has a "Masters degree" from some unaccredited college in Connecticut, I believe. I looked it up a while ago and got the impression that he did a bit of reading, sent in a couple of sermons as a Thesis, spent a week or two (at most) on campus -- and then got rubber-stamped for a degree that isn't worth the paper it is written on. However, I may be doing him an injustice and mileages may vary on the credibility of degrees from unaccredited Bible Colleges.

As to what will change their minds? I don't know. My feeling (hope) is that John Shrader's mission will be short-lived because his plans are so scattered, he whines so much about minor discomforts, and the reality will be so different from his dreams. I just hope his children survive.

In all fairness, some (a few) of the IFB missionaries whose blogs I've stumbled across do seem to be doing a decent job and actually helping people while they proselytize. There was one family who had renovated an old motel in Zambia and were running an orphanage. Another was teaching farming. I wish I'd bookmarked those links.

John, OTOH, only wants fly around Sub-Saharan Africa handing out tracts, converting people who are already Christian, and "discipling" people in his weird version of Jesus. I really don't have any patience with that!

[Palimpsest]

OMG, GIBM is supporting an IFB "mission" to Easton, MA - Adam and Dianne Riveiro!

From godly Tampa, Florida to convert a fairly affluent town in ebil Massachusetts to the real Jebus.

Forgive me, but I find this exquisitely funny! :cracking-up:

[slickcat79]

OMG, GIBM is supporting an IFB "mission" to Easton, MA - Adam and Dianne Riveiro!

From godly Tampa, Florida to convert a fairly affluent town in ebil Massachusetts to the real Jebus.

Forgive me, but I find this exquisitely funny! :cracking-up:

The LORD has laid it on my heart to join FormerGothardite's mission to Scotland. He has also indicated that, should my mortal flesh fail in this journey, a fall trip to convert the heathens and teh gheys in the SF Bay area would also be acceptable. SEND MONEY.

[PurpleSheepleEater]

Ah. This may be a matter of semantics. I'm not arguing with you per se, just pointing out how very fishy this looks to outsiders.

Global Independent Baptist Mission is not what I would call a "Board." I see a Mission Board as an entity with authority over individual missionaries, quality assurance provisions, and a consistent mission statement. To say nothing of being a safety net.

I checked out GIBM a while ago and just looked again. To a cynic like me -- it's pretty much a shell organization!

It clearly identifies itself as only a "financial clearing house" and 501© - for tax purposes - for missionaries that are "associated" with it. They very specifically turn all responsibility for managing the "missionary" back on the "sending church."

gibmission.org [my bolding]

They advise getting medical insurance but they don't require it, and the Application to join is probably less detailed than an application to work at McDonald's although they do require a reference from a pastor, a letter from the "sending church," and a statement that the candidate will practice their Articles of Faith!

Oh, so polygamists need not apply! :lol:

GIBM currently channels funds for and gives tax-free status to 32 "missionary families." This includes missionaries to such needy countries as Canada (1), Australia (1), Scotland (1) and the USA (7). They do have a smattering of missionaries to more exotic places. The Zambia (2) contingent is our friend John Shrader and his partner in misguidedness, David Rea. Neither family is in Zambia yet.

On Bible College: John has a "Masters degree" from some unaccredited college in Connecticut, I believe. I looked it up a while ago and got the impression that he did a bit of reading, sent in a couple of sermons as a Thesis, spent a week or two (at most) on campus -- and then got rubber-stamped for a degree that isn't worth the paper it is written on. However, I may be doing him an injustice and mileages may vary on the credibility of degrees from unaccredited Bible Colleges.

As to what will change their minds? I don't know. My feeling (hope) is that John Shrader's mission will be short-lived because his plans are so scattered, he whines so much about minor discomforts, and the reality will be so different from his dreams. I just hope his children survive.

In all fairness, some (a few) of the IFB missionaries whose blogs I've stumbled across do seem to be doing a decent job and actually helping people while they proselytize. There was one family who had renovated an old motel in Zambia and were running an orphanage. Another was teaching farming. I wish I'd bookmarked those links.

John, OTOH, only wants fly around Sub-Saharan Africa handing out tracts, converting people who are already Christian, and "discipling" people in his weird version of Jesus. I really don't have any patience with that!

You do realize I'm not defending him, right? I think the whole thing is gross. Their mission board is much like many IFB boards, they leave almost everything to the missionary, just like the churches they frequent say they are independent while having a massive network among them. They have to maintain the appearance of independence thing because in their interpretation of the bible Jesus wanted churches independent. I know those unaccredited IFB bible colleges are a sham, I graduated from one. Just saying that IME he's one of hundreds just like him. Your last paragraph. He's absolutely not the only one doing that. The fundies have been converting christians to their version of christianity for a long long time, lol.

[Arete]

The LORD has laid it on my heart to join FormerGothardite's mission to Scotland. He has also indicated that, should my mortal flesh fail in this journey, a fall trip to convert the heathens and teh gheys in the SF Bay area would also be acceptable. SEND MONEY.

With much respect to my sisters in the Northern European field, The Lord has laid it on MY heart to go convert the Mediterranean Papists in Italy to the ONE TRUE Asia Minor Papistry I swing with. You guys can mumble a prayer the haggis will taste better than it looks while I sing Glory to God over Artichokes a la Judia. ;)

[PurpleSheepleEater]

Well talking about this made me have to go do some looking. I have to say that at least the Schraders mission board is upfront about what they do. If you google independent fundamental mission board and read some of those sites most don't say more than that they partner with local churches to plant churches. They are all just slightly different versions of the same thing though. And now I'm going to have flashbacks because between the board members and the actual missionaries I was just reminded of a whole lot of people I'd rather forget. :doh:

[Palimpsest]

You do realize I'm not defending him, right? I think the whole thing is gross. Their mission board is much like many IFB boards, they leave almost everything to the missionary, just like the churches they frequent say they are independent while having a massive network among them. They have to maintain the appearance of independence thing because in their interpretation of the bible Jesus wanted churches independent. I know those unaccredited IFB bible colleges are a sham, I graduated from one. Just saying that IME he's one of hundreds just like him. Your last paragraph. He's absolutely not the only one doing that. The fundies have been converting christians to their version of christianity for a long long time, lol.

Oh, yes, I do know you are not defending him! :D

I am trying to explain, as you didn't seem to understand our outrage in your earlier post, why I find John and this IFB "mission" nonsense so outrageous.

Look, historically, proselytizing Christian "missionaries" are certainly not new. They have got themselves into sticky situations in developing countries for years. This has resulted in many countries banning those who do not belong to known, established, missions, and those who do not have concrete skills to share and plenty of cash from a reputable organization. Mere proselytizing isn't helpful. Zambia does not ban these whacky "independents." Yet.

However, the whole IFB "Fundie" movement is comparatively new. Again, thinking historically, it only gained real ground in the last 30 odd years. The fact that there is a developing IFB infrastructure wanting to burden developing countries with twits like John Shrader is genuinely outrageous!

And, seriously, what does surprise me is the carelessness and gullibility of those in the US who support the "Johns." Apparently IFB church members are separated from their money on a regular basis by scam-artists missionaries like him. All talk and very little action, much risk to their families, could cost their sending church a heck of a lot of cash if they need to be medevaced out due to their irresponsibility... in fact, complete liability issues in the making!

[Palimpsest]

Well talking about this made me have to go do some looking. I have to say that at least the Schraders mission board is upfront about what they do. If you google independent fundamental mission board and read some of those sites most don't say more than that they partner with local churches to plant churches. They are all just slightly different versions of the same thing though. And now I'm going to have flashbacks because between the board members and the actual missionaries I was just reminded of a whole lot of people I'd rather forget. :doh:

Sorry about that!

[formergothardite]

The LORD has laid it on my heart to join FormerGothardite's mission to Scotland. He has also indicated that, should my mortal flesh fail in this journey, a fall trip to convert the heathens and teh gheys in the SF Bay area would also be acceptable. SEND MONEY.

Welcome to the mission field. Few are called, even fewer get brand new Troupies. Maybe you will have better luck grifting an accordion.

[Palimpsest]

Welcome to the mission field. Few are called, even fewer get brand new Troupies. Maybe you will have better luck grifting an accordion.

Yes, concrete evidence of a grifted magical accordion is absolutely required before I pray for any of you lot! :naughty:

[Meeka]

Tomorrow is his flying test that will cost $850. He wants prayers because we wants to pass it the first time as he has already spent $8000 on his training. Imagine how much real help that could do to a village in Zambia!

[formergothardite]

Tomorrow is his flying test that will cost $850. He wants prayers because we wants to pass it the first time as he has already spent $8000 on his training. Imagine how much real help that could do to a village in Zambia!

Well, as he has pointed out before, thousands of dollars will buy them food and clean water but sending him will help get them eternal life. :roll:

[ThisOlGirl]

I trust that Formergothardite & Aretejo will do The Lord proud in converting the heathen Europeans in Scotland & Italy. I however, feel called to minister to the lost souls here in my own country, specifically Key West, Florida. I shall go during Fantasyfest, and minister to the brazen immodest Jezebels wearing nothing but body paint, the sailors, the hippies, the bikers, the drag queens. Indeed it will be a treacherous time, and if The Lord sees fit to send me back every year, I will make that sacrifice. Please keep me in your prayers. And SEND MONAAaY!!!

[Trynn]

I've done domestic mission trips before.... Florida and southern Texas.... Best. Mission trips. Ever.

Even if I didn't manage to sneak away to sea world :(

[gustava]

SOURCE: http://www.pilotcareer.info/Private_Pilot_Costs.html

Taking all these expenses into account, a student that finishes their training in the FAA minimum of 40 flight hours will pay approximately $5,800.

This includes:

Third Class Medical $100

40 hours C172 rental @ $95/hr (averaged) = $3,800

30 hours Flight Instruction @ $40/hr (averaged) = $1,200

Misc pilot supplies $300

FAA Computerized Written Exam Fee $100

Examiner fee $300

Johnny Boy seems to be a tad forgetful. He told us that he took and passed his written exam. So why is he taking it again. :naughty: And if his flight check ride (Examiner fee) is $850, then I think the Lord must be pissed off with him.

[Howl]

Hopefully this is a small enough plane that only a few family members can fly together at one time.

[RachelB]

The LORD has laid it on my heart to join FormerGothardite's mission to Scotland. He has also indicated that, should my mortal flesh fail in this journey, a fall trip to convert the heathens and teh gheys in the SF Bay area would also be acceptable. SEND MONEY.

Heh, if you fail in your Scottish mission and come to the Bay Area, come try to convert me and I'll buy you a pint and laugh at your jokes. Unless you're from one of those teetotaling sects, and then I wouldn't dream of tempting you.

[Palimpsest]

SOURCE: http://www.pilotcareer.info/Private_Pilot_Costs.html

Johnny Boy seems to be a tad forgetful. He told us that he took and passed his written exam. So why is he taking it again. :naughty: And if his flight check ride (Examiner fee) is $850, then I think the Lord must be pissed off with him.

Something else is wrong here. Per Meeka: "Tomorrow is his flying test that will cost $850. He wants prayers because we wants to pass it the first time as he has already spent $8000 on his training. Imagine how much real help that could do to a village in Zambia!" Was that a typo, Meeka?

Didn't he claim to be getting the tuition free from some retired missionary pilot? It was sent by God. If you take off tuition, that brings Gustava's total down to a mere $4,400. Where is he pissing away other peoples' money? Extra flight time because he is not very good?

I wouldn't be at all surprised if he had to retake a couple of tests. John says he is not academic. However, I'm getting the impression that he might not have been, um, exactly honest about his tests and the cost of his training -- but doesn't expect people to question him!