Lori Alexander on the Evils of Sleepovers

[Mama Mia]

In my experience seeing the worst in people is an occupational hazard of being a cop, prosecutor, social worker, e.r. nurse, or any occupation where you see horrible, horrible things on a regular basis. It can be very difficult to have a balanced world view. People tend to either be gripped with paranoia and think evil is lurking everywhere waiting to snatch up your children....or go to the other extreme and not see things that would be considered dysfunctional or unhealthy to most people, simply because what they see at work is so incredibly over the top horrible.

So the yardstick for "normal" tends to be off in one direction or the other. It's really hard to find balance as a parent if you work in those fields imho

[asinglevoice]

Hmmm...sorry Lori, but I was molested in my *own* home. You can't 100% guarantee safety in any circumstance, but living like a recluse is no solution.

[miffy]

I used to have sleepovers with my childhood best friend & then go to Catholic church the next day. So I guess thats evil? :lol:

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I am pretty cautious with my girls but I let them go to parties and sleepovers. Still, I am aware that so many girls and women are sexually assaulted. When I dropped my kids off(11,8,6) at a party (which took place in the backyard) a while back I told my oldest that if the youngest has to go to the bathroom, please take her. I don't want her going in and possibly encountering someone. I have also discussed these things with them. I know and trust the families they sleep over with, but like someone said, you do take these measured risks. You teach them about life and cannot keep them in a bubble.

I am not paranoid, my kids are the kids riding their bikes around the neighborhood (well the older two, together) running all over with the neighborhood kids and some moms don't ever allow this because their thing is kidnapping as opposed to molestation.

I was molested in my own home by my moms boyfriend, but what if I had had a sleepover and he was there? What if his kids had a sleepover at his house? Would he be able to resist? I doubt it.

[Closed Womb]

I went to sleep overs when I was young. I remember doing seances, playing with a Ouija board, playing spin the bottle, eating tons of junk food; nothing that was productive or healthy.

So, you had fun, Lori? Nice of you to make sure your children didn't enjoy the taste of Oreo's and freedom.

[bananacat]

While I'm sure it's true that some children are molested on sleep-overs, the vast majority of molestation occurs within the family. If you allow your child to sleep over at a relative's house you're actually putting them at higher risk than if they sleep over with a friend- especially at a birthday party with lots of other kids. Also, you can teach your children that their bodies belong to them and if any one touches them in a way they don't like, they have the right to tell them to stop and if they don't to scream bloody murder. I know this won't stop all molestors and I don't say it's ever the child's fault for not fighting back, but I have to believe it would work in a party sleep-over situation.

This certainly is true. Obviously adults sometimes molest kids they don't know very well, as indicated by the experiences of people on this very thread. However, it's less common than targeting a child they are closer too, largely because many predators prefer to work up to the molestation, test boundaries, take some time to to try to warp the child's view so they won't tell, etc. All of that takes time and trust with the child.

[Mama Mia]

While I'm sure it's true that some children are molested on sleep-overs, the vast majority of molestation occurs within the family. If you allow your child to sleep over at a relative's house you're actually putting them at higher risk than if they sleep over with a friend- especially at a birthday party with lots of other kids. Also, you can teach your children that their bodies belong to them and if any one touches them in a way they don't like, they have the right to tell them to stop and if they don't to scream bloody murder. I know this won't stop all molestors and I don't say it's ever the child's fault for not fighting back, but I have to believe it would work in a party sleep-over situation.

Not to be picky, but I think you want to be careful with your wording there. I went to a training where they said you should avoid saying to kids that no one should touch them in ways they don't like, and instead should tell them that no one should touch them in ways they don't like AND no one should touch their private parts.

It's an important distinction because kids don't always feel uncomfortable at the time and can feel really guilty if they don't, even though the behavior of the adult was clearly wrong.

Of course you also need to clarify that sometimes a dr. Might need to give them a shot or examine them and that's okay. And that it isn't wrong for adults to change diapers or bathe a small child etc....it's hard with little kids because you have to cover a lot or they get confused on what's okay and what isn't.

[RosyDaisy]

Wow! I went to and had slumber parties all time as a kid. We played all kinds of games, gorged out on junk food, did each other's nails, watched tv, listened and danced to music. It was so fun! When my parents hosted the slumber party, Mama would fix a nice breakfast for everyone before they went home. I was never molested, and Daddy never molested my friends. Locked bedroom and bathroom doors always kept the trouble making little brothers from "sneaking a peek".

[danvillebelle]

This certainly is true. Obviously adults sometimes molest kids they don't know very well, as indicated by the experiences of people on this very thread. However, it's less common than targeting a child they are closer too, largely because many predators prefer to work up to the molestation, test boundaries, take some time to to try to warp the child's view so they won't tell, etc. All of that takes time and trust with the child.

Yes. The man who molested me had been present in the home when I'd slept over countless times (elementary school best friend). I trusted him like a relative. I was so completely dumbfounded and shocked when it happened that I never said a word to anyone. And thank you for the kind words people offered, I appreciate it.

[Florenz]

We watched porn during sleepovers. We were a mixed group of 12-14year olds.

Even weeks after those sleepovers, when one of us said things like: "oooooh walter" or "someone called the plumber", we would break down giggling and laughing. :-D

[Evilbad]

You know what? I kind of get it. It's the same when you're a doctor or social worker or a cop, and you've seen the worst and know that it does happen. I have worked on computer crime investigations involving child pron and its horrifying and sick. My son is 12 and still has no traceable Internet presence because of my experiences. Until he's significantly older, he will only have the access I control because of this kind of thing. I have seen the worst and I need to k ow he's safe from it, you know?

However, the rest is whatever. Sleeping over is fun and awesome and we often gain a few extra kids for a weekend or whatever. It's kind of mean to exclude, but at least she said she'll revisit when the kid is older. Of all the the things she writes, I'm not all that offended by this.

[wild little fox]

While I'm sure it's true that some children are molested on sleep-overs, the vast majority of molestation occurs within the family. If you allow your child to sleep over at a relative's house you're actually putting them at higher risk than if they sleep over with a friend- especially at a birthday party with lots of other kids. Also, you can teach your children that their bodies belong to them and if any one touches them in a way they don't like, they have the right to tell them to stop and if they don't to scream bloody murder. I know this won't stop all molestors and I don't say it's ever the child's fault for not fighting back, but I have to believe it would work in a party sleep-over situation.

I think that children who are taught to obey, no matter what and are never permitted to say no have a high rate of being molested. The strict way fundies raise their children and the isolation is setting the kids up to be victimized.

ETA: isolated children do not learn how the world works. As in they do not learn how to listen to their own instincts or to hone them.

[louisa05]

This certainly is true. Obviously adults sometimes molest kids they don't know very well, as indicated by the experiences of people on this very thread. However, it's less common than targeting a child they are closer too, largely because many predators prefer to work up to the molestation, test boundaries, take some time to to try to warp the child's view so they won't tell, etc. All of that takes time and trust with the child.

Exactly this. It is called grooming. A good and well known example is Jerry Sandusky and his mentoring of kids that would include favors, gifts, trips and special treatment. The young men who told their stories all indicated that the molestation began with innocent touch and escalated, as well.

In my Catholic diocese, kids are taught a curriculum called "Circle of Grace" in parish catechism programs that teaches them to set and honor their own personal boundaries and that even with adults they have been taught to respect, they have a right to maintain those boundaries. And if adults want to cross their physical boundaries, they need to tell another trusted adult right away. The level of the discussion is different for each age group, but the teaching starts as young as kindergarten and first grade.

[YPestis]

The world is filled with horrible things, and we have the media reminding us of it daily and in detailed ways. I don't think it's just cops and social workers who are paranoid due to their jobs, I think it's anyone who reads the newspapers or watches the news. Most children will never be molested or kidnapped and when it occurs, it's often at the hands of trusted individuals (family, close friends). However, that doesn't stop parents from wanting to protect children from stranger attacks. Does it make logical sense? Perhaps not. It's an emotional response and one not just isolated to fundies.

I think the 24 news cycle about molestations just feeds into the parental paranoia. Of course, every parent has the right to set boundaries for their children. However, I'm of the belief that life should not be spent in hiding of what could happen. If we ban any activity that may ended horribly, there are no activities truly safe for children.

I had fun with sleepovers as a child. I want my children to as well. However, I also know to be cautious. That means getting to know the parents and the home where the sleepover is to occur and providing my child a way to contact me should they feel like coming home. I think the most important thing is to teach your child to deal with life, not hide from it. After all, at some point, even fundies have to let their daughters leave the house; if not through marriage, then through parental death. At some point in a daughter's life, she will stop sleeping next door to mommy's bedroom and then what? I guess that question could be applied to any child, fundie or otherwise.

[Ms Lucy Fur]

This reminds me of the Mad Men episode when Betty had to pick up Sally early from a sleepover because Sally was caught masturbating. I guess Lori won't have to pick up her kids early.

[curlytoes79]

Fear -- especially fear linked to not having direct supervision of your kids at all times -- is a big part of the fundamentalist mentality. Don't let your kids out of your sight (unless they are in the care of another trusted fundy) or they will slip out of your control and be in the worst possible danger.

[Koala]

I think that given the fact that Lori raised her children to blindly obey and never question adults, this was probably one of the smarter decisions she made as a parent. Matter of fact, if my kids had been raised like Lori raised hers, I'd have been afraid for them to ever leave the house. :?

[dilannsmom]

Why do these people think that every male is a child molester?

Every male but the biological father. From Lori's blog (not bothering quoting as I can NEVER make it work):

"Thankfully, I was never molested but I could see how it could easily happen if there are older brothers in the home, step-fathers, uncles, etc."

So, an only male child married to an only female child (therefore no uncles), both with no living father, who have an only child (therefore no grandfathers or brothers) may be safe...EXCEPT for the fact that if there is only one child in the home there is no way that they can be good Christians as they are therefore not quiverfull...

Yeah, this TOTALLY makes sense! :angry-banghead: :cray-cray: :wtf:

[MsSaylor]

I find it extremely interesting that her post explicitely left out biological fathers as potential molestors. Has someone or could someone ask her about this. I'm very curious what her answer would be.

[AnywhereButHere]

Yeah, I love the fact that to Lori, fathers are exempt from child predator status but step-fathers are suspect. :roll:

The big thing when I was a kid was skinny dipping. Around the ages of 8-11, we thought it was the coolest thing ever. Never mind sleepovers either. Any day party at a house with a pool would do. No boys allowed, but I'm sure that Lori (and Rachel) would find it evil and soul destroying. But hey, it's proof that "unacceptable" (to them) actions can happen way before 9:00 pm...

The worst thing that ever happened to me at one of those parties was getting stung on the ass by a bee. Hurt like hell. :P