Fundie home-schooler in Washington Post

[gustava]

It bothers me that my nail technician has to be licensed by the State, but any fundy parent in Virginia who wants to keep their kids home, give them a workbook that says "look at the big whale that God created" and pretend its marine biology, is given free rein.

Or to put it another way, it pisses me off that my cuticles have more protections that the brains of homeschooled children.

You should pray that God gives you back control of your nails.

[ThatSnark]

My brother-in-law's family started off homeschooling back in the early 90s. By the time their oldest daughter was 8, she had three younger siblings. My mother-in-law was visiting and helping get the newest baby settled, and made the observation that this 7-year-old child did not know her alphabet, much less how to read or write. Sister-in-law had what the family describes as "a breakdown," and the two eldest were enrolled at the nearby Christian school while the mom was getting treatment. Both parents were/are college educated; it was simply a matter of only having so many hours in the day, and school ended up not being a priority.

This incident helped me realize that there's nothing simple or easy about managing your child's education AND a household AND demanding younger siblings. My sister-in-law was completely overwhelmed. Fortunately all her 6 children have benefited from a mix of private and home education since then; she knows her limits, and I kind of salute her for sending them off to boarding school at age 14. 8-)

Anyway, this happened in Alabama and I was stunned that there was no oversight of any kind into the lack of education these intelligent young people were not getting.

[RachelB]

Yeah, teenagers aren't always known for making the wisest long-term choices. I'm sure that Jennifer was glad to avoid math just as many of us would have been glad to avoid certain subjects. But most students need someone who will force them to be challenged and force them to face things that don't come easy for them. I always hated writing essays and if some teacher hadn't forced me to do it I probably wouldn't have taken it, but in hindsight I'm grateful that I had that experience even if I never use it directly for my job. Jennifer is really missing out on some of the most interesting parts of science if she is avoiding the areas that involve math.

I like the idea of someone explaining, "You might find this part of math boring, but mastering it will make X easier later on." Precalc was really frustrating for me-- a lot of memorize this, and no, I am not going to tell you why, and I probably would have assumed calc would be more so, had my intro chem and physics teacher not said, "Physics is much easier and more fun if you have some knowledge of calculus. Otherwise, you waste a lot of time doing calculations the long and boring way."

I took calc in part because that teacher bothered to persuade me that there was a reason to do so. Not only was she was right, but calc was easier for me than precalc, because so many of the textbook examples came from something I was already motivated to learn (i.e., physics).

I try to remember, in my own classroom, how unmotivating I found "Because I said so."

[julie paradox]

... Precalc was really frustrating for me-- a lot of memorize this, and no, I am not going to tell you why, and I probably would have assumed calc would be more so, had my intro chem and physics teacher not said, "Physics is much easier and more fun if you have some knowledge of calculus. Otherwise, you waste a lot of time doing calculations the long and boring way."

(a) - that's really weird. None of my maths teachers EVER said "because I said so". Seems a bit counterproductive to me.

(b) - what is precalc? Yous all keep talking about it and I have no idea what you mean. (NB I have a maths degree)

[SpeakNow]

(a) - that's really weird. None of my maths teachers EVER said "because I said so". Seems a bit counterproductive to me.

(b) - what is precalc? Yous all keep talking about it and I have no idea what you mean. (NB I have a maths degree)

Precalc=pre-calculus

[August]

(a) - that's really weird. None of my maths teachers EVER said "because I said so". Seems a bit counterproductive to me.

(b) - what is precalc? Yous all keep talking about it and I have no idea what you mean. (NB I have a maths degree)

It's the mathematics before calculus. Ploynomials, matrices, etc. If calculus is grade 12, precalc is grade 11.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precalculus

[FreeJosie]

I took trigonometry/pre-calc as one class in 11th grade, calculus in 12th.

I live in one of the stricter states in terms of homeschooling laws. I think it's a good thing though. Yearly evaluations have to be done and portfolios have to be submitted, so there's a lower likelihood of SOTDRT-learning taking place.

[bananacat]

I like the idea of someone explaining, "You might find this part of math boring, but mastering it will make X easier later on." Precalc was really frustrating for me-- a lot of memorize this, and no, I am not going to tell you why, and I probably would have assumed calc would be more so, had my intro chem and physics teacher not said, "Physics is much easier and more fun if you have some knowledge of calculus. Otherwise, you waste a lot of time doing calculations the long and boring way."

I took calc in part because that teacher bothered to persuade me that there was a reason to do so. Not only was she was right, but calc was easier for me than precalc, because so many of the textbook examples came from something I was already motivated to learn (i.e., physics).

I try to remember, in my own classroom, how unmotivating I found "Because I said so."

I completely agree. Differential Equations 2 was the hardest course of college, even harder than the classes that later built on it. I was walking to the final exam so stressed out that I actually wondered what would happen if I just gave up on school and became a hobo and/or trophy wife. It sucked, and I was always good at math before then. But my effort paid off and I got an A in that class. At first I felt like I didn't deserve it, but then when I had other classes that built on it, they were so much easier and I had quite an advantage over others who hadn't done as well in that class. I could have never passed Controls and Processing Modeling without it. Even though I rarely solved a differential equation in those classes, the conceptual stuff was extremely helpful to visualize the problems, and that's really what math is about more than anything.

Also, physics made way more sense after I had calculus and learned where the equations came from. It's hard to adjust the curricula correctly and to post-pone high school physics until after calculus so I don't know that there's an easy solution there, but it's definitely useful to get through the foundation before building the house.

[JesusFightClub]

Totally agree with JingerJar - teaching is a skill. You have it or you don't.

I have an EFL certificate and I haven't taught since getting it because, to put it bluntly, I was great at the theory but hopeless at the practice. Teaching and I just didn't gel. However there was a girl in my class who was one of the best teachers even my tutors had ever seen. She walked into the most difficult classes, fixed all students' attention, got the toughest students to work, seemed to bring out the desire for learning in every single person in the class...I sat in on some of her lessons and I saw she was different from all of us. Even the better teachers had to work for it. She didn't.

Now, someone like that, if they were to homeschool, I could see it being a huge success. They would undoubtedly be able to juggle lesson plans and inspire their kids onwards and upwards. The better teachers could do it too. Me? I'd be absolutely shit.

It's not an automatic thing. It's actually a really difficult thing.

There's a lot more to teaching than what appears on the surface. There's a shitload of planning, research, learning about developmental stages, theory behind learning...you name it, a teacher should be able to do it. Then translate that to the classroom (or dining room table). It's trickier than it looks.

[freedomjesusfootball]

You mean of one or two kids rather than in a whole classroom? Because teaching multiple kids who are at different levels (and no matter how good you are, they WILL be at different levels) is tricky. That's a skill!

As for high school, I was under the impression that most competent homeschoolers start to outsource by then. It's not all or nothing, right? So they teach their kid history, maybe, the kid reads through a book list on their own, they hire a tutor for math, do dual enrollment in college for foreign language, and maybe they share science classes with another few families to spread the cost of hiring another tutor and handling labs.

Absolutely for 1-2 kids. For more than that, hell to the no.

[Scone]

To the people taking his story with a grain of salt just 'cause he's doing well in college... eh. You might be surprised. It's possible the story isn't true, but it rings true to me.

I was unschooled too, in much the same way as Josh--started out good and got worse as there got more kids. I'm about to graduate with a BA and an A- average, and no one believes me when I tell them I had no education because I'm doing pretty okay. What no one seems to really understand is that having no education doesn't mean I know nothing, it just means I have a very limited range of knowledge and it's patchy. I know about English literature, can tell you weird amounts of detail about Greek and Egyptian mythology and can read Latin and Anglo-Saxon, but I probably know less about basic science than the average third-grader and I only understand very basic math. Like Jennifer said in the article, you pick what you want to study. In my case, I learned to read young and spent my childhood hiding in a corner somewhere reading novels. I'm good at that, but I don't know anything else.

Of course, getting into a university is not nearly as competitive in New Zealand as it is in the US, but even so I've found that people are generally impressed more by personal drive than by having the right pieces of paper. It's much harder and involves a lot more paperwork to do it the unconventional way but it is possible. If Josh went to the admissions officer and said "Look, here's my story. I have this shitty background but look, I've done these three years of community college and I'm working hard to catch up and overcome all that. I really want to be here" they would probably give him a chance. He's not exactly going to drop out after all that.

Edited because I actually can write sentences.

[AmyP]

To the people taking his story with a grain of salt just 'cause he's doing well in college... eh. You might be surprised. It's possible the story isn't true, but it rings true to me.

I was unschooled too, in much the same way as Josh--started out good and got worse as there got more kids. I'm about to graduate with a BA and an A- average, and no one believes me when I tell them I had no education because I'm doing pretty okay. What no one seems to really understand is that having no education doesn't mean I know nothing, it just means I have a very limited range of knowledge and it's patchy. I know about English literature, can tell you weird amounts of detail about Greek and Egyptian mythology and can read Latin and Anglo-Saxon, but I probably know less about basic science than the average third-grader and I only understand very basic math. Like Jennifer said in the article, you pick what you want to study. In my case, I learned to read young and spent my childhood hiding in a corner somewhere reading novels. I'm good at that, but I don't know anything else.

Of course, getting into a university is not nearly as competitive in New Zealand as it is in the US, but even so I've found that people are generally impressed more by personal drive than by having the right pieces of paper. It's much harder and involves a lot more paperwork to do it the unconventional way but it is possible. If Josh went to the admissions officer and said "Look, here's my story. I have this shitty background but look, I've done these three years of community college and I'm working hard to catch up and overcome all that. I really want to be here" they would probably give him a chance. He's not exactly going to drop out after all that.

Edited because I actually can write sentences.

I think you might misunderstand. It isn't that he is doing well, or that he was admitted to a college, it is that both he and his sister are enrolling at two very prestigious, highly competitive schools. Those schools don't admit just anyone. Kids graduating at the top of their high school classes compete to get into those schools.

[Talitha Cumi]

“The young woman was doing homemaking, sewing, learning to cook, and the boy was doing farming,†able at 13 to raise and sell a bull calf, he said.

....

Josh Powell thrived under his mother’s instruction early on. At 4, he was already reading chapter books. Andrea Powell, a University of Virginia graduate who has managed most of her children’s education over the years, let her husband speak for the family.

Don't kids who do 4-H or FFA routinely raise and sell livestock? While going to public schools? :o

And I was reading chapter books at 4, while going to school. If you're a reading freak, you're a reading freak no matter what you do.

[August]

I think you might misunderstand. It isn't that he is doing well, or that he was admitted to a college, it is that both he and his sister are enrolling at two very prestigious, highly competitive schools. Those schools don't admit just anyone. Kids graduating at the top of their high school classes compete to get into those schools.

I've done some reading around admissions of underpriveledged kids to prestigiour institutions and did you see the quote from the Georgetown admissions person? It was exactly what I've read elsewhere, they look for doing a lot with what you have, so him spending four years at CC doing remedial stuff because his parents never taught him was why Goergetown admitted him. Admissions people try to compensate for the advantages some kids have, and this is one way of doing that.

[Ariel]

You know what the worst thing is? The good elementary school teachers make it look so damned easy. :lol: Students think they're just breezing through the day, and parents, aids, and assorted classroom visitors think it's a piece of cake. I've known number of people over the years who've taught elementary for a year or two and then either fled to higher grade levels or out of the profession altogether. :worship: I am absolutely in awe of veteran elementary school teachers. :worship:

I am a high school teacher specifically because the idea of being in a room with 30 tiny kids terrifies me.

Also, teaching elementary (and home school) requires way more work. I teach two history classes. This means I prepare 2 lessons a day, so 10ish per week. Maybe less if the lessons take more than one period. I have access to a lot of resources like textbooks (free!), copies (free!), and other teachers who have great ideas and who can look at my lessons and critique them

With one kid, if you do all the subjects everyday, you're probably doing 5 lessons-a day. Maybe you do a block schedule, or get creative and make one lesson that covers most subjects (Which won't work after 4th-5th grade) and maybe its 3 lessons everyday. If the kid is little you don't really get breaks unless they're napping.

If you have 5 kids at different levels....that's easily 40+ lessons per week.

Also, you never get a break from your kids. I love my students, but there are days when I am damn happy I only have to spend 50 minutes with some of them. 24 hours a day? I would go nuts (non-parent here).

Edited to Add:

There were a lot of home schoolers where I grew up. They took advantage of a Post-Secondary Option program that exists in Ohio. Essentially, if you have good grades and/or pass a test you can take courses at a local college for free. I always thought this seemed like a good option for parents who can't handle teaching specialized subjects like chemistry.

[FlorenceHamilton]

The thing is, she's not avoiding the areas that involve math and biology, she's just going into them woefully underprepared to understand the math and biology that are in them.

Oceanography is physics and math. It's fucking fluid dynamics!!!! Imagine trying to understand fluid dynamics without algebra.

Marine biology is biology, and biology is chemistry. Take, say, osmotic pressure, which is a huge huge deal for marine animals, that's chemistry and/or physics. All those different reproductive strategies of marine creatures, but having to start from learning what a chromosome us instead of straight into why it's weird for an adult to be n. And her ignorance is on show in claiming that she somehow skipped 'biology' and 'chemistry', because to do more advanced subjects you have to learn all the basic stuff anyway.

Let's go further...Biology is Chemistry. Chemistry is molecular Physics. Physics is Math in motion. But you see, once you realize this, then you also realize that the form of the universe is necessarily the way it is because...sine wave. And then you must question the god of the bible.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Don't kids who do 4-H or FFA routinely raise and sell livestock? While going to public schools? :o

Yes, and it's competitive even - they show animals at county and state fairs.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Let's go further...Biology is Chemistry. Chemistry is molecular Physics. Physics is Math in motion. But you see, once you realize this, then you also realize that the form of the universe is necessarily the way it is because...sine wave. And then you must question the god of the bible.

I must admit I like those T-shirts that say

"And God said...

[big listing of Maxwell's equations]

...and there was light!" :)

[Scone]

I've done some reading around admissions of underpriveledged kids to prestigiour institutions and did you see the quote from the Georgetown admissions person? It was exactly what I've read elsewhere, they look for doing a lot with what you have, so him spending four years at CC doing remedial stuff because his parents never taught him was why Goergetown admitted him. Admissions people try to compensate for the advantages some kids have, and this is one way of doing that.

^exactly, this is what I mean. If you show clear determination, drive, and ability in the face of a serious setback like this, people pay attention and are impressed. It shows that you haven't just coasted through life being naturally smart and having the best of everything provided for you, but that you understand that getting this degree will be hard work. It means you won't just give up and drop out because you're bored or it gets too hard. By doing those three or four years of community college, Josh proved that he was committed and able. That's worth being given a chance.

[Marian the Librarian]

Bumping to report that this article has become the topic du jour on Isaac Botkin's FB page - methinks it's on his radar in light of the Botkin family's upcoming "Ready For Real Life" homeschooling webinar.

First, Isaac's take:

Critics of home education have always suggested that parents simply aren’t equipped to teach their own children. A recent story in the Washington Post quoted a homeschooled child who actually agrees. Josh Powell of central Virginia felt that his own parents were so unable to prepare him for real life that he fought a legal battle for the right to defy their wishes and attend his local high school. Was Josh really so disadvantaged?

“By the time he was 16,†reported the Post, “he had never written an essay. He didn’t know South Africa was a country. He couldn’t solve basic algebra problems.â€

Josh accuses his parents of gross negligence, but they had taught him to read by age four, and provided him with all the books and internet access that he used to research the Virginia legal code and the government financial aid that he used to escape their home. Is there a reason that he couldn’t have used those same resources to study geography and algebra?

Although reporters are blaming his lack of “fundamental knowledge†on his parents, Josh was given a tremendous freedom to pick his own subjects and the resources to pursue his own interests. All students bear a great responsibility to make the most of their time, and homeschoolers just have more opportunities to do so.

At a time when more than 40% of all college graduates remain unemployed, we should think twice about copying failed school models. In a world where technological advances are creating entire industries faster than universities can add new majors, we should maintain our flexibility and work on building our most useful skills: diligence and discipline.

Next, cousin Katie Botkin's response: :cracking-up:

It sounds like you're making the argument that all that is required for any person's education is being taught to read and pointed at the internet (or any books one happens to have available). I was just talking yesterday to a woman whose homeschooling education basically consisted of her reading whatever she could get her hands on, which wasn't much. When she left home and went to college, it shocked her that there were people who could answer the questions she had. Even in my own education, there were a lot of holes, and my parents between them have a broad and extensive education. Sure, college required some stupid busy work, but it rounded out my education in a way that for me just never would have happened at home. I never would have become fluent in French. I would have had only a vague knowledge of linguistics, editing, biology, statistics, psychology, philosophy, logic and many other subjects without the challenging demands of (good) professors who were experts in their field. It's difficult to even sort through trillions of internet search results and separate hard data and legitimate rhetoric from the dross without learning about those subjects first. Also, it is next to impossible to learn anything like a craft from the internet. That takes hands-on learning from someone who already knows the trade.

[Carla Bruni]

I consider myself an educated person. I have a master's degree. I always did very well in school. I know lots of things outside of my major, like web development and GIS and statistics. In no way am I at all prepared to homeschool a child, because I'm not a teacher. There's no way I could do a better job at teaching math or science than an actual certified education professional. The only thing I could realistically teach a grade-school-aged child is foreign languages, and even then, consistent homework is required to master written language skills (I see heritage speakers of Russian all the time whose spelling makes me cringe), which I am not prepared to provide on a consistent basis because I'm not a teacher and I don't have a curriculum.

Most importantly, there's no way I could provide a child with the daily socialization and horizon broadening that school provides.

The arrogance of these families is just ARRRRGGGGH.

[Effie]

Cousin Botkins seems cool. That's far from what I can say about the other Botkins.

[Alicepooh]

Here are some thoughts on homeschooling from the one and only SAHD Ashley Schnarr...

I graduated from high school in 2009 having been homeschooled all the way through. These school years shaped my life in many ways and greatly contributed in the making of the person I am today.

When I look back though you might be surprised at what really made the most impact on my life. It wasn’t the Algebra book I poured over day in and day out, it wasn’t that Biology course I took (though I did enjoy it) and it wasn’t even the biyearly placement tests we chose to take. In reality I never use any of those in my every day, graduated life.

I realize these things are important. I am thankful that my parents, and mother as my teacher, cared about my scholastic development but I’m even more grateful that she taught me these things:

Your Schooling Comes Second

By far the best thing my parents ever taught me was to recognize that being a faithful Christian is more important than being an A+ student. Their first priority was to equip me spiritually so they could shoot me off in to a dark world as an arrow for Christ. While my parents did teach us that our schooling was a priority they made sure that we understood those things will fade in this world but our relationship with Christ will last an eternity.

Whether it was through our morning Bible session, or our Wednesday night family Bible study, or encouraging personal quiet time through the devotional book my mother created they made sure our spiritual education came first.

Pursue Your Interests

God gives each person particular gifts and skills and these inclinations can begin to be seen even in the childhood years. I love how my parents were in tune to my gifting and provided me with the tools to explore those gifts.

I am an artsy person but as I child I wasn’t sure where that would lead me so my parents gave me the freedom to experiment. They provided me with craft supplies, a few art lessons, a cake decorating course and a book writing class. Little did they know that the writing class would equip me to write 2 book by the age of twenty.

It’s Ok If You aren’t Good At Something

Early on in my homeschool career my parents discovered I have a learning disability. It really had nothing to do with my intelligence but my mind for some reason will switch around my letters making it a struggle to learn to read and very difficult to be able to spell properly.

One of the best things my parents gave me was the freedom to not be good at something, without shame. Yes, we worked hard to overcome my struggles but at the end of the day I knew my worth and ability to succeed wasn’t based on my ability to be a great speller.

They Taught Me How To Learn

Children often have inquisitive minds and my parents encouraged that quality within me. Even to this day I am known for needing to know the “why†behind things. But they didn’t just stop there or just give me the answer to everything. They taught me that I needed to learn and study things out for myself. They taught me I needed to own my beliefs and the best way to do that is by studying things out for myself.

As I look back I see just how much these four mentalities shaped and equip me for life. The core school subjects are important but at the end of the day it’s your core values that will shape your children the most.

As you start up the school year, whether your send your children to class or teach them at home, I would encourage you to expand your educating beyond the text books. From a student who has lived a few years past graduation, I’d say this is the best gift you can give your children.

While I think it's nice for her to recognize that it's ok if you're not an overall A+ student, it is disturbing to see that schooling does come second (and maybe even last) because Christ needs to come first. How is Christ going to help you if you have no job and no formal education? How do you expect to be able to work in a normal environment if you've never been into a classroom in your life?

[Carla Bruni]

The problem I have with this is that her parents completely failed to explain to her HOW her coursework is applicable to real life, which is what made her such a moron. Has she ever calculated a percentage of anything? Built or sewn anything after measuring how much to cut? Put flowers in a vase by a window? Taken any kind of medicine? Driven a car? Yeah, you dimwit, all of those things are based in the natural/hard sciences. UGH.

[amydamy]

This kid is currently attending Georgetown, a really competitive school. His sister is transferring to UVa, which is less competitive, but still really good. I'm taking his complaints with a huge grain of salt here.

The admissions officer from Georgetown said it was his drive and determination that got him in and UVA has a guaranteed admission agreement with the community college mentioned in the article which is where I'm assuming she went. You have to have a good GPA but as long as the requirements are meet you have a place at the school.