Fundie home-schooler in Washington Post

[YPestis]

I thought this article from the WaPo about homeschooling in Virginia would be of particular interest to FJingerites:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/stu ... story.html

Some snippets:

Josh Powell wanted to go to school so badly that he pleaded with local officials to let him enroll.

By the time he was 16, he had never written an essay. He didn’t know South Africa was a country. He couldn’t solve basic algebra problems.

....

Powell was taught at home, his parents using a religious exemption that allows families to entirely opt out of public education, a Virginia law that is unlike any other in the country. That means that not only are their children excused from attending school — as those educated under the state’s home-school statute are — but they also are exempt from all government oversight.

....

Josh Powell eventually found a way to get several years of remedial classes and other courses at a community college.

Now he’s studying at Georgetown University.

Josh Powell, now 21, wonders how much more he could have accomplished if he hadn’t spent so much time and effort catching up.

....

Even before he was married, Clarence Powell thought he’d like to home-school his children someday.

He was struck by two children at his church who were taught at home. They seemed advanced academically, but he was even more impressed by the life skills they were learning.

“The young woman was doing homemaking, sewing, learning to cook, and the boy was doing farming,†able at 13 to raise and sell a bull calf, he said.

....

Josh Powell thrived under his mother’s instruction early on. At 4, he was already reading chapter books. Andrea Powell, a University of Virginia graduate who has managed most of her children’s education over the years, let her husband speak for the family.

As the family grew, Josh Powell said, things deteriorated. He learned from a mishmash of textbooks his parents assembled, with more and more self-instruction because there were so many other children to raise and teach. As subjects got increasingly complex, he had more trouble figuring them out on his own.

.....

He asked his parents whether he could enroll in school. When they said no, he researched Virginia law. He found that school boards could excuse from compulsory attendance students who, together with their parents, are conscientiously opposed to attendance because of their religious convictions.

The story is pretty long but well worth the read. It highlights the issues that Virginia has with a state law that it provides no oversight or regulations for homeschoolers. It's particularly disheartening to hear that this young man was DENIED a fundamental right to an education because of his parents' objection.

The Powell's family situation pinged my fundie radar. There's the father's talk about educated homeschooled girls were who could cook and clean, the college-educated mother who "let her husband speak" and the struggle to homeschool a growing brood.

Still, the family is better than the Duggars and other fundies we've seen. They, at least, accept and is proud that their son is attending college and credits his achievements to his homeschooling experience----something their son strongly disagrees with. Sadly, it appears the rest of the family don't share this sentiment with Josh, despite acknowledging that they are all behind academically.

Jennifer Powell, 20, is grateful for her home education. She said she had the freedom to pursue the subjects that interested her, taking marine biology and oceanography instead of standard biology and chemistry, which she thought would have too much math, and learning about seeds and botany by spending time with her father when he was doing landscaping jobs. She took a lot of remedial math at community college, but she noted that many of her classmates who had taken math in public high school had to as well.

In the above bolded is one of my biggest problems I see with unstructured and unregulated homeschooling. It can lead to this cherry picking of subjects. I disliked chemistry as well but medical school didn't excuse me from having to learn it. I'm glad I didn't have the "freedom" to pursue only subjects that interested me before I received my M.D.

However, I can't blame the girl completely. Children cannot be expected to make unpleasant choices without adult guidance. Her parents should have understood the importance of basic sciences if one desires to pursues a STEM career. If this girl is interested in marine biology and oceanography, she's going to be doing more than remedial math later. Furthermore, the girl is ignorant of the fact that most public school students do not end up in multiple remedial maths after graduation. I'm not sure one should brag about an education that places you at the bottom of the heap......

Anyway, the article is just chalk full of these SOTDRT stories. The family acknowledges the lack of structure and guidance, but still feel it's important that they educate their children at home. The way they did is a form of child neglect. This is no different than parents who deny children medical treatment. I hope the Virginia law is changed to allow for oversight of homeschooling.

Josh Powell's story is as much about overcoming great hardships as it is about parental neglect. Plus, think about the cost of his remedial education to taxpayers, or the wasted potential of a young man who still struggles to keep up with his fellow students. It's just a sad situation all around, and all because of stupid parents who are just too dumb to teach.

[bookgirl14]

It sounds like these kids are not getting even the minimum education that they need just to survive. I'm sorry but there's a problem when there are kids in middle school that are not able to read. Luckily Josh's younger siblings have him to help guide them to get a better education than they are getting at home. I wonder what happen if Josh didn't have the drive to get an education.

[Stephanie66]

The article said some of the kids just play video games all day, and the dad said that maybe when there were fewer kids in the house, his wife would do a better job teaching them.

Josh and his sister are the oldest, and they got a crappy education after they were toddlers, so good luck with that.

I understand why people homeschool. In my current district, I would probably homeschool. But homeschooling should be supervised by some governing body that makes sure the kids are actually on track with their learning.

And the "neener-neener-boo-boo" excuse of "well, the public schools are failing, too!" just doesn't fly. If the whole point of homeschooling was to do BETTER than the public schools, then why would it matter?

[bananacat]

Yeah, teenagers aren't always known for making the wisest long-term choices. I'm sure that Jennifer was glad to avoid math just as many of us would have been glad to avoid certain subjects. But most students need someone who will force them to be challenged and force them to face things that don't come easy for them. I always hated writing essays and if some teacher hadn't forced me to do it I probably wouldn't have taken it, but in hindsight I'm grateful that I had that experience even if I never use it directly for my job. Jennifer is really missing out on some of the most interesting parts of science if she is avoiding the areas that involve math.

[August]

The thing is, she's not avoiding the areas that involve math and biology, she's just going into them woefully underprepared to understand the math and biology that are in them.

Oceanography is physics and math. It's fucking fluid dynamics!!!! Imagine trying to understand fluid dynamics without algebra.

Marine biology is biology, and biology is chemistry. Take, say, osmotic pressure, which is a huge huge deal for marine animals, that's chemistry and/or physics. All those different reproductive strategies of marine creatures, but having to start from learning what a chromosome us instead of straight into why it's weird for an adult to be n. And her ignorance is on show in claiming that she somehow skipped 'biology' and 'chemistry', because to do more advanced subjects you have to learn all the basic stuff anyway.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Thats sad :( No parent should be allowed to give their child such a terrible education. There should be some government oversight to make sure parents are actually teaching their kids things.

[rward]

The thing is, she's not avoiding the areas that involve math and biology, she's just going into them woefully underprepared to understand the math and biology that are in them.

Oceanography is physics and math. It's fucking fluid dynamics!!!! Imagine trying to understand fluid dynamics without algebra.

Marine biology is biology, and biology is chemistry. Take, say, osmotic pressure, which is a huge huge deal for marine animals, that's chemistry and/or physics. All those different reproductive strategies of marine creatures, but having to start from learning what a chromosome us instead of straight into why it's weird for an adult to be n. And her ignorance is on show in claiming that she somehow skipped 'biology' and 'chemistry', because to do more advanced subjects you have to learn all the basic stuff anyway.

I think her ignorance is showing in claiming she took marine biology. She clearly did not. Instead, she studied cool sea creatures in no real depth, because she couldn't possibly have understood depth without the underpinnings she skipped, and calls that marine biology.

Homeschooling needs a lot more oversight, and if they're not going to provide that oversight, it shouldn't be allowed.

[HereticHick]

So glad someone posted this article because I was getting ready to do it! Article also notes that this is a family of 11 or 12 kids. Father notes that maybe the younger kids will get a better education because there will be fewer of them to deal with. Asshole-- perhaps God is telling you you have too many kids????

And yeah--that daughter isn't studying marine biology any more than my 7 year old nephew is when I take him to the aquarium!!

[Marian the Librarian]

Just read parts of this article to my spouse, who responded "homeschooling makes about as much sense as home doctoring." When I told him some of our famous fundie families do that, too, he got really quiet. :(

ETA: Someone should forward this link to the Botkins - their latest offering to the masses is a multi-part homeschooling webinar. Maybe the Lord will lay it on their hearts to add marine biology to the mix.

[Knight of Ni]

I think her ignorance is showing in claiming she took marine biology. She clearly did not. Instead, she studied cool sea creatures in no real depth, because she couldn't possibly have understood depth without the underpinnings she skipped, and calls that marine biology.

Homeschooling needs a lot more oversight, and if they're not going to provide that oversight, it shouldn't be allowed.

This. I have a feeling that the depth of her studying of marine biology begins and ends with "Oh! Look at the pretty fish. And the big whale."

[church_of_dog]

This. I have a feeling that the depth of her studying of marine biology begins and ends with "Oh! Look at the pretty fish. And the big whale. Aren't they neat?"

There. I put back that last sentence for ya -- I know you typed it, but it must have accidentally got deleted somehow. :lol:

[Mela99]

My two cents is this - unschooling/homeschooling can be a great asset, but it ain't for everybody. I was unschooled for the last three years of high school because of medical issues that kept me in and out of hospitals. It was easier to homeschool than fail out.

I knew where I was going in life (law school) so yeah, I didn't focus as much on math and sciences. But I inhaled literature, history, art, nature and the like. I read over 1,000 books during those three years and wrote 1,000 book reports. I did research projects once a month - on the death penalty, Nuremberg Tribual, orcas, and operas. I bought language tapes and started studying Italian, which I wound up minoring in in College.

It only works, I think, if you genuinely put the effort into it. I loved every second of it. I forever had my nose in a book or a paper or came home from the library with a stack of National Geographic videos waist high, or found every art museum and history museum that I could beg a trip to.

And I had to present a portfolio at the end of every year on what I studied and what I covered, which had to be approved by the school board for them to consider me "passing" a year.

It's WORK, hard work. The thing that pisses me off about these families, Duggars included, is how damned lackadaisical they are about education.

[danvillebelle]

The person who wrote the article didn't do their homework when it comes to homeschooling laws. Virginia is not the only state where there is no government oversight. CT, NJ, MI, IN, IL, MO, OK, TX, ID, and AK are all like that as well. CA, NV, UT, AZ, NM, MT, WY, NE, KS, WI, KY, MS and AL all only require parental notification.

We have educated our children at home for 15 years, and my views on the matter differ from most here. All I will say is I don't think changing the laws in ALL those states is going to happen in the next 50 years, if ever. Homeschooling has picked up too much speed in the last 20 years. And yes, I fall firmly on the side of the government cleaning up their own house (public education) before they come stick their nose in mine.

Carry on.

[formergothardite]

The person who wrote the article didn't do their homework when it comes to homeschooling laws. Virginia is not the only state where there is no government oversight. CT, NJ, MI, IN, IL, MO, OK, TX, ID, and AK are all like that as well. CA, NV, UT, AZ, NM, MT, WY, NE, KS, WI, KY, MS and AL all only require parental notification.

We have educated our children at home for 15 years, and my views on the matter differ from most here. All I will say is I don't think changing the laws in ALL those states is going to happen in the next 50 years, if ever. Homeschooling has picked up too much speed in the last 20 years. And yes, I fall firmly on the side of the government cleaning up their own house (public education) before they come stick their nose in mine.

Carry on.

They can work on both at the same time, you know.

[freedomjesusfootball]

I would have loved to skip Calculus and organic chemistry ( and molecular biology, tbh) in college/ med school. There are huge swathes of medicine that I find horribly dull. But if I had skipped all of that, I would not be able to understand the body as a system and/or the basic principles of human physiology. I am completely focused on macro-medicine now, but I still need to know how drugs work before prescribing them. And that involves a background in shit I think is boring.

In high school, I had calculus, physics, chemistry, and advanced biology. My parents were business people. There is no f-ing way they would have been able to supervise my education. I am also fluent in a language that neither of them speak. (Partially from school, and partially from working with immigrants). Again, not something one can learn well with just a book.

I think for elementary school, most intelligent adults would make competent teachers, but there is no way my (well-educated, graduate degreed) parents would have adequately prepared me for college. I am not saying it can't be done, but it would take an exceptionally motivated child and strict parents and expensive educational materials. Not just checking out random books with pictures of fish from the library.

[Jinger Jar]

There are very good home schoolers out there, and there are children for whom home schooling is a better fit than traditional school. The ones who do it well are the first to say that it's time- and labor-intensive. A colleague of mine home schooled her two daughters for ten years, and she's told me it was the hardest thing she's ever done. It takes a lot of energy, creativity, time, resources, and wherewithal to home school in a way that prepares a kid to be a functioning adult in society (define that as you will).

What I see in this article, and what I see on too many fundy blogs, are situations in which mom (usually the teacher) is in way over her head. She's trying to develop too many curricula at once; she's got kids who should be tested for learning disabilities, but she doesn't even know enough about child development or how kids learn to know that her kid might need accommodations and what those accommodations should be; she has little formal education herself; and/or she has medical issues that preclude from being able to teach for periods of time. How many blogs has FJ covered in which mom essentially cancels school whenever she's pregnant or she's suffering from low energy levels?

The irony is that they say they don't have the energy for home school, but boy do they have the energy to produce a beautiful blog with daily posts, complete with giveaways and a shop where they plug their soaps and herbal concoctions. :roll:

Too often I see bloggers who've more or less given up teaching their kids much of anything. They've delegated teaching to the oldest sibling(s), their kids make their way through worksheets and/or watch videos all day long. Some worst ones are those who declare themselves unschoolers as an excuse to stop trying to provide any kind of education to their children, which does little more than give unschooling and those to do it well a bad name.

As much as I would like all states to have rigorous home schooling over site, I don't see that happening any time soon in the US, what with the "ebil publik skools" and anti-intellectual memes so prevalent and the near canonization of home schooling families in politically and religiously conservative circles. I suspect poorly done home schooling won't become an issue until a lot more children like the one in this article speak out and get taken seriously by the wider society.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I think her ignorance is showing in claiming she took marine biology. She clearly did not. Instead, she studied cool sea creatures in no real depth, because she couldn't possibly have understood depth without the underpinnings she skipped, and calls that marine biology.

Homeschooling needs a lot more oversight, and if they're not going to provide that oversight, it shouldn't be allowed.

The bad homeschooling examples I'm familiar with (not religious, either!) were exactly like this. Kid is left to "unschool" or "do self-directed learning" in "whatever subjects are of interest" with perhaps some unit studies, but there is no mastery of any of the basics first, or drills, because that's just "rote learning" and "boring."

So the kid picks some niche interest, gets some books on it, gets through the first few chapters of whatever it is, and then just sort of... falls off or hits a plateau and gives it up, because of a complete lack of any basic knowledge you need to really get into the subject beyond those introductory "isn't this cool?" layman-aimed first few chapters.

The kid (and parents!) then feel all superior for studying these niche subjects, without any clue as to how lacking their knowledge is.

Learning is like sports. You have to drill the basic skills before you can start talking deep game strategy or perfecting interesting signature moves.

[Jinger Jar]

I think for elementary school, most intelligent adults would make competent teachers...

I disagree.

When I first started teaching, the district where I was working bumped me from high school to first grade. (This was a long time ago. Today's credentialing requirements would preclude them from making such a move.) I am a reasonably intelligent person who has a decent enough education, and I am here to testify that first grade handed me my ass.

It's not merely knowing subject matter. It's knowing how to present material coherently and in a way that 30 seven-year-old minds can access and make meaning from. Running an elementary school classroom takes an insane amount of organizational skill, pre-planning, and task analysis. There is absolutely no downtime for the adults in the room when children are present, and kids are present 95% of the time. Even when the kids are doing quiet seat work, you're monitoring and answering questions, always with one eye on the clock and part of your mind assessing how productive the activity is and how you're going to transition the class for what's coming next to avoid chaos and confusion. And if that's not enough, you have to always be approachable and giving of yourself, no matter how tired or sick or stressed out about something at home you might be. You rarely sit down, and you're lucky if you get to pee twice before the dismissal bell rings.

You know what the worst thing is? The good elementary school teachers make it look so damned easy. :lol: Students think they're just breezing through the day, and parents, aids, and assorted classroom visitors think it's a piece of cake. I've known number of people over the years who've taught elementary for a year or two and then either fled to higher grade levels or out of the profession altogether. :worship: I am absolutely in awe of veteran elementary school teachers. :worship:

[HereticHick]

It bothers me that my nail technician has to be licensed by the State, but any fundy parent in Virginia who wants to keep their kids home, give them a workbook that says "look at the big whale that God created" and pretend its marine biology, is given free rein.

Or to put it another way, it pisses me off that my cuticles have more protections that the brains of homeschooled children.

[Conuly]

I think for elementary school, most intelligent adults would make competent teachers, but there is no way my (well-educated, graduate degreed) parents would have adequately prepared me for college.

You mean of one or two kids rather than in a whole classroom? Because teaching multiple kids who are at different levels (and no matter how good you are, they WILL be at different levels) is tricky. That's a skill!

As for high school, I was under the impression that most competent homeschoolers start to outsource by then. It's not all or nothing, right? So they teach their kid history, maybe, the kid reads through a book list on their own, they hire a tutor for math, do dual enrollment in college for foreign language, and maybe they share science classes with another few families to spread the cost of hiring another tutor and handling labs.

[KitCatCadillac]

I went to an alternative school for a couple years in high-school, after trying an online program for a while. I was way ahead of my peers intellectually, but also lazy, unmotivated, and with extremely poor study skills. The online school was a complete failure for me, because "learning at my own pace" meant reading a lot, and avoiding written work by any means possible. I got ridiculously far behind. Luckily my mom is a teacher, and has common sense, so I got sent to a school where they wouldn't put up with my shenanigans, and I got diagnosed with and treated for ADD. If I had been a homeschool, who knows where I'd be.

[Sobeknofret]

This kid is currently attending Georgetown, a really competitive school. His sister is transferring to UVa, which is less competitive, but still really good. I'm taking his complaints with a huge grain of salt here.

[GenerationCedarchip]

I have to admit feeling some ambivalence when I read this. I don't want to give away too much or repeat things I shouldn't because even though Josh Powell is 21, some of his siblings are still minors. However, I will say that while I am not personally acquainted with the players in this story, I do have some knowledge of this family via various homeschoolers I know and there appears to be much more going on than what is in the Post. For that reason, I have a little trouble accepting everything being said in the report at face value.

On the other hand, while I do think parents should be able to homeschool, having absolutely no government oversight is dangerous for the children. I've known homeschoolers in VA who got top notch educations(usually via co-ops or hiring of tutors for certain subjects) but I've also worked with kids who were functionally illiterate at 18. The oversight requirement in this state isn't all that burdensome but it does weed out some of the abuses, and I don't see anything even remotely unreasonable about making it an across the board rule for everyone.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

The main problem I have with the story is that (if the story is to be believed) when the kid went to the high school asking to be admitted they wouldn't let him in.

I think by high school if a kid wants to attend public school, his parents should have to let him. If the kid ALSO wanted to stay homeschooling that would be different.

[GenerationCedarchip]

The main problem I have with the story is that (if the story is to be believed) when the kid went to the high school asking to be admitted they wouldn't let him in.

I think by high school if a kid wants to attend public school, his parents should have to let him. If the kid ALSO wanted to stay homeschooling that would be different.

One other thing I noticed after I posted on here earlier is that while in the article, Josh Powell claims everyone was denied by the school board when they begged to attend Buckingham H.S., at least one of the Powell siblings on FB claims to have graduated from that same local high school.