The Truth About Ruth - Part 4

[GiGi_41]

Actually, my dad did have all of his dental work done in Mexico. My SO and I took a trip to see them so he could get his dental work done. It was cheaper to fly us out to visit and pay for the dental work then for him to go to a dentist here. He was actually referred to an oral surgeon just up the street from the general dentist for a more in depth procedure. Both of them were trained in America and their staff was all bilingual.

A lot of retirees go across the border of Yuma to Mexico for not just their dental care. The local border police keep the crime down.

So yes, just go to Mexico may be a not so funny suggestion.

[wild little fox]

Several years ago there was a plastic surgery package that was available for purchase in Thailand (IIRC). It was less expensive than the US and it included air fare, surgery, and they put the patients up in a swanky hotel/spa along with your traveling companion. It included nurses while in recoperation at the hotel. If I am ever able to lose this weight I'd consider something along those lines (after investigation, of course!) to deal with all the loose skin :/

[Coconut Flan]

A lot of retirees go across the border of Yuma to Mexico for not just their dental care. The local border police keep the crime down.

So yes, just go to Mexico may be a not so funny suggestion.

It's very true. I know many people who have done that and been highly satisfied with the results.

[NurseNell]

You can also get your prescription drugs a lot cheaper in Mexico. Also in Canada. So if you live near either border it can pay to get your meds there. I have a friend whose 1 y.o. lab got blastomycosis, which is thousands of dollar to treat. They took the script to Canada and got a year's worth of treatment for what 1 month would cost here.

[Ruby Slippers]

Actually, my dad did have all of his dental work done in Mexico. My SO and I took a trip to see them so he could get his dental work done. It was cheaper to fly us out to visit and pay for the dental work then for him to go to a dentist here. He was actually referred to an oral surgeon just up the street from the general dentist for a more in depth procedure. Both of them were trained in America and their staff was all bilingual.

A lot of retirees go across the border of Yuma to Mexico for not just their dental care. The local border police keep the crime down.

So yes, just go to Mexico may be a not so funny suggestion.

I am picturing the working poor being told to go to Mexico-- making sure they can research an appropriately licensed dentist, get accomodations, passport, and transportation as well as pay for the dental work itself. I think it's an infeasible suggestion for anyone who is not middle class, and a sad testimony to the inequality and helplessness of American health care.

But what I really care about here is the much-hyped, hinted-at evildoing of possummama.

[DarkAnts]

One of my friends use to go to a dentist in Mexico. The dentist had an office right over the border and provided transportation from a parking lot on the american side to the dentist office on the mexico side. That stopped after the dentist was kidnapped and killed by the drug lords. People need to remember that mexico border towns can be dangerous.

[Curious]

For me to believe in a story in the future, there will have to be transparency. I know that some people feel that they are placing themselves at risk by revealing their identities or providing photos. However, that excuse is also an excellent cover for a scammer.

I think one of the big things is the money aspect. If a person is just telling their story and not making a money grab, I find it a lot more believable.

Even on NLQ, the individual writers make no money, but Vyckie does, so where is her incentive to vet people. If their stories are compelling and will bring her clicks, which equals money. She's made it clear she doesn't care about the truth in her completely over the top reaction to my polite email. She doesn't know me from adam, but just the fact that I am a member her (the owner, trying to be nice and give her a head's up) was enough for her to completely discount me. She clearly does not use good judgment, IMO.

I won't be giving her anymore clicks as a result.

Here we come right out and say we do NOT vet anyone, but when things come to our attention we don't just let them go merrily along (neither did the past administration, btw) as though it's ok. When Alecto was given verifiable evidence that Elle was Aria_Star it was investigated and brought to the forum. When AD was found to have played similar games on other forums, it was brought out. When we had something we could finally actually verify that gave us reasonable proof that RR was not real, we investigated it and brought it out.

I, personally, feel that we (the administration) have a responsibility to our membership to do this. If people realize this is the stand we take, maybe they will eventually quit trying to run their schemes here. I'm sure there are much easier places where people just don't care ;)

[Mama Mia]

I am picturing the working poor being told to go to Mexico-- making sure they can research an appropriately licensed dentist, get accomodations, passport, and transportation as well as pay for the dental work itself. I think it's an infeasible suggestion for anyone who is not middle class, and a sad testimony to the inequality and helplessness of American health care.

But what I really care about here is the much-hyped, hinted-at evildoing of possummama.

But for many working poor or middle income people it can be the only option. People always say 'well there are tons of resources' , without always realizing how very, very limited those resources often are with very detailed eligibility requirements and scopes of services and sometimes years long waits.

Obviously if you live in Boston (for example) it will be very expensive to fly to Mexico for dental care, but for many people its less than a days drive. You do need a passport but its often more feasible to save up $1000 over a year and get some major work done than to try to get the equivalent service in the states, especially since dental care has been cut from many health programs over the past few years.

[apple1]

... especially since dental care has been cut from many health programs over the past few years.

The only "dental care" that was ever covered as part of employer-associated health insurance was extractions. That went away about 30 years ago. (This is unfortunate, because dental problems ARE health problems, too, in ways too numerous to mention).

I don't know about dental care with regard to Medicaid, etc., and cannot comment on that.

But anyway - dental work costs a fortune, and even if one works someplace that has a dental plan, those are so limited, have so many exclusions, and their annual max is so low compared to the cost of anything more than a cleaning and a simple filling, that most Americans have to pay out of pocket for dental work or do without. Dental plans are almost a joke.

Yes, this touches a nerve.

No, I never considered begging on the internet, as opposed to sacrificing other things to pay for my (ongoing as well as current) dental work.

[Cran]

As we're totally off topic now... Germany's public health system has made some cuts covering dental care during the last years, but compared to what you get, we live in heaven!

Yearly removal of tartar, fillings with anaesthetic, extraction, root canals.. all done without co-pay.

We have to pay more now for crowns and tooth replacement, health insurance will only pay a fixed amount per crown or tooth to be replaced, and if you want more than this money pays for, it is up to you, and good solutions usually cost much more, but you can reduce your payments if you can prove that you've been to check-ups regularly, and if you're considered a hardship case, you'll get your treatment without additional cost to you. Of course, not the best possible treatment, but you get a functional solution (like, if you lose a tooth, you will not get an implant, but a bridge, which costs less).

But if you belong to the "working poor", good dental care might also be out of reach, because being just above the minimum where you'd be considered a hardship and having to pay up without being able to sucks big time. My crown alone cost 1.300 Euro, and the operation to place my implant another 1.000, and my insurance paid around 250... if my family hadn't covered it, I'd have tooth missing still. That's more thank I make in two months.

Going to Poland or other Eastern European countries has become a viable option for many Germans like going to Mexico for US-Americans, for dental work and plastic surgery.

Ebil socialist healthcare :roll:

[FJismyheadship]

Medicaid: All the extraction you could ever need and up to 500 dollars worth of regular work every six months.

At least here in Arkansas.

[apple1]

My crown alone cost 1.300 Euro, and the operation to place my implant another 1.000, and my insurance paid around 250...

I haven't converted those numbers into US $$, but -

I have an implant in progress right now. The implant itself (done by an oral surgeon) is approximately $3500, then the crown on top of it (from the regular dentist) will be appox. $1250. Dental insurance will pay the oral surgeon $200 for the extraction of the root of the broken off tooth before placing the implant post. It is unlikely that the dental insurance will pay anything at all on the crown. They get by with this by excluding implant-related work as "experimental".

Yes, this kind of cost is definitely a financial hardship.

[DarkAnts]

My dental insurance will only cover 50% of the cost for crowns. They dont cover major dental like implants. They do cover exams and cleanings (copay of $20). Its not top rate coverage, but it helps.

[louisa05]

My dental insurance will only cover 50% of the cost for crowns. They dont cover major dental like implants. They do cover exams and cleanings (copay of $20). Its not top rate coverage, but it helps.

Our insurance, through an enormous and evil international corporation that we are supposed to hate and probably boycott, covers exams and cleanings twice a year and something like 65% of costs on procedures. It also covers one eye exam at an optometrist each year. At no extra cost to us.

Sometimes we forget to hate on them.

[laura oz]

Our insurance, through an enormous and evil international corporation that we are supposed to hate and probably boycott, covers exams and cleanings twice a year and something like 65% of costs on procedures. It also covers one eye exam at an optometrist each year. At no extra cost to us.

Sometimes we forget to hate on them.

I'll bet we use the same company. I forget to hate on that particular evil corporation too :lol:

[jojo]

I have had so much dental work over the years that my mouth is now worth more than my car. I have dental insurance, but it has a yearly payout limit, so I have timed my dental work to get full benefit.

As an aside, I have questioned the posted dentist website of "Annie" who wanted money for her dental treatments. I looked at the linked website and it seems a bit off. That same dentist office has a whole different website under a different corporate name but with some of the same dentists. I wondered if the one "Annie" posted was made-up. Of course, it could be an older website and that group of dentists changed their group name and hired someone to make a more professional website. But, why wasn't the more professional-looking one the one that Annie linked to? Also, how could we have made a donnation directily to her dentist if we didn't have the patient's real name? Am I missing something? I guess I question anything "Ruth" related.

"its" group name

"donation"

[apple1]

Our insurance, through an enormous and evil international corporation that we are supposed to hate and probably boycott, covers exams and cleanings twice a year and something like 65% of costs on procedures. It also covers one eye exam at an optometrist each year. At no extra cost to us.

Sometimes we forget to hate on them.

Most of us would be able to cover exams and cleanings ourselves - no biggie there.

What is the annual maximum benefit? If it is something like $1000, even with 65% coverage, one tooth with a root canal and a crown will exceed that max.

I hope you are NOT in the same situation as most of the rest of us here; I am happy for you if that is the case. I'm just not yet sure that you are in so much of a better spot than most, because on the whole, employer-associated dental insurance coverage in the US is not that great. Part of the problem is that most of the dental insurance companies really haven't updated their schedule of benefits and maximums in over 20 years, while costs have ballooned during the same period of time.

From my viewpoint, about the best I can say about dental insurance is that it is better than nothing.

[EmmieJ]

The only "dental care" that was ever covered as part of employer-associated health insurance was extractions. That went away about 30 years ago. (This is unfortunate, because dental problems ARE health problems, too, in ways too numerous to mention).

I don't know about dental care with regard to Medicaid, etc., and cannot comment on that.

But anyway - dental work costs a fortune, and even if one works someplace that has a dental plan, those are so limited, have so many exclusions, and their annual max is so low compared to the cost of anything more than a cleaning and a simple filling, that most Americans have to pay out of pocket for dental work or do without. Dental plans are almost a joke.

Yes, this touches a nerve.

No, I never considered begging on the internet, as opposed to sacrificing other things to pay for my (ongoing as well as current) dental work.

I'm not sure if I misunderstood your comment about the only dental care being covered by employer insurance being extractions, but I beg to differ. I worked some years ago for a large insurance company (in one of their small local divisions). My benefits included health insurance and dental insurance. It didn't pay 100% for my visits or treatment, but it did pay a good portion.

After I left that job and went to work for a small independent firm, I got Delta Dental coverage -- that paid far less toward any dental work, but it did pay something.

However, I agree that dental plans are mostly a joke. The amounts they are willing to pay for even standard procedures are always a lot less than the actual dentist's charges. It's ridiculous.

Like you, I've never considered asking strangers on the internet to send me money to cover my expenses, any more than I would consider sitting on a street corner begging for money.

[louisa05]

Most of us would be able to cover exams and cleanings ourselves - no biggie there.

What is the annual maximum benefit? If it is something like $1000, even with 65% coverage, one tooth with a root canal and a crown will exceed that max.

I hope you are NOT in the same situation as most of the rest of us here; I am happy for you if that is the case. I'm just not yet sure that you are in so much of a better spot than most, because on the whole, employer-associated dental insurance coverage in the US is not that great. Part of the problem is that most of the dental insurance companies really haven't updated their schedule of benefits and maximums in over 20 years, while costs have ballooned during the same period of time.

From my viewpoint, about the best I can say about dental insurance is that it is better than nothing.

Every insurance plan I had when I was single featured no coverage at all for dental and no coverage at all for vision other than an optional extra-cost supplement that paid nothing for an exam, $100 every two years for glasses (my last pair cost around $500 just for lenses and, trust me, there is no cutting corners on that as I have some rare vision problems that have to be accommodated + severe nearsightedness) and nothing for contacts. The insurance plan we had prior to the huge allegedly evil international corporation buying husband's company was about the same, although it did pay $65 a year toward an eye exam.

Now we don't pay for eye or dental exams. That is around $500 a year. Most months, I don't even make $500 as a substitute teacher (and in the summer I make nothing). So you may feel like that isn't much to you, but it is a lot to us. And our premiums actually went down as well.

Don't judge other people's situations. You have no idea.

And I was also responding to the poster who claimed that no dental plan or employer insurance plan covers anything for dental. Ours covers better than any plan I have previously had. When my husband had two fillings replaced last year, we paid about $35 out of pocket. Again...maybe the whole cost would be nothing in your budget, but it would be in ours.

[girlwind]

Medicaid: All the extraction you could ever need and up to 500 dollars worth of regular work every six months.

At least here in Arkansas.

Sounds great. How you qualify for Medicaid in Arkansas, though? In Georgia you have to meet income requirements *and* be pregnant, blind, under 19, over 65, disabled**, or in need of nursing home care. (By **disabled they mean you have a federally recognized SSDI disability, not just any chronic illness or injury). The assistance pool is very limited.

I have a West Coast friend who ended up on food stamps in Tennessee after a divorce. She told me that prior to that experience, she thought honestly thought any American with missing teeth was just too lazy to get government help. After losing three teeth to childbirth, she was put on a two-year waiting list for dentures. Another friend of mine in Georgia went to the charity hospital with a tooth abscess and was refused treatment because she had to get a separate approval to be put on a three-month wait list to see the one charity dentist. Despite the fact that the abscess was a life-threatening *medical* emergency.

...dragging the conversation back to Ruth, I can see I get hot around the collar at folks who say things like "It's so unbelievable that Ruth couldn't get Medicaid" or "I don't believe any hospital would refuse to put you on a payment plan" because I have known so many people to struggle so hard for exactly that. My friend who took five years to be granted SSDI. Another friend who was lied to by the hospital when she applied for payment assistance - every time she called to ask for that department, they'd put her on hold until she hung up. The friend who moved to Massachusetts because that was the only state where he could qualify for low-income pool insurance - they're fighting Obamacare tooth and nail in my state. Just as Consumer Reports recently showed that hospital costs vary astronomically by city, so does the amount of available government aid.

...which, of course, played into my willingness to believe "Ruth" was really facing these struggles. They seemed believable to me, and in my mind, Ruth became a kind of eternal underdog.

[apple1]

I'm not sure if I misunderstood your comment about the only dental care being covered by employer insurance being extractions, but I beg to differ. I worked some years ago for a large insurance company (in one of their small local divisions). My benefits included health insurance and dental insurance. It didn't pay 100% for my visits or treatment, but it did pay a good portion.

Maybe you misunderstood, or maybe I was unclear.

I was trying to say that only extractions (generally; there may have been exceptions) were covered under HEALTH insurance as a general or common thing, because that I understood the previous poster to be talking about HEALTH insurance. Definitely, a whole list of services has been historically, as well as currently, listed under DENTAL insurance.

I also find that many people who think they have great dental insurance have not yet reached a place where they need extensive, major and expensive work. An annual max of $1000 - or even $1500 - really doesn't go far. Like I said, one tooth with a root canal and a crown, you're done for the year. (Chemo does a number on one's mouth, in spite of regular dental visits and the best possible personal dental hygiene).

I don't think we are disagreeing; I think we may have been talking past one another.

[EmmieJ]

Maybe you misunderstood, or maybe I was unclear.

I was trying to say that only extractions (generally; there may have been exceptions) were covered under HEALTH insurance as a general or common thing, because that I understood the previous poster to be talking about HEALTH insurance. Definitely, a whole list of services has been historically, as well as currently, listed under DENTAL insurance.

I also find that many people who think they have great dental insurance have not yet reached a place where they need extensive, major and expensive work. An annual max of $1000 - or even $1500 - really doesn't go far. Like I said, one tooth with a root canal and a crown, you're done for the year. (Chemo does a number on one's mouth, in spite of regular dental visits and the best possible personal dental hygiene).

I don't think we are disagreeing; I think we may have been talking past one another.

Ahhh, I see what happened. I did think you were referring to dental insurance. Nope, we're not disagreeing. I think dental insurance is mostly a joke. I pay as I go, and have for the last five years.

However, I know I need some serious dental work, which I've been putting off due to cost. I guess I'll have to find a dentist that will take payments.

[Pathfinder]

I took a second job just for the sole reason of paying my dental expenses. And yes, I have dental insurance, but it is only a drop in a bucket.

Maybe I should go to Mexico... might be easier than working my butt off.

[Cran]

I talked with a friend about dental care today, inspired through this thread. She makes a very meagre salary being a cashier, and needs dental work. She told me she would seriously consider going unemployed for a year or so, because if she received Hartz IV (basically, social welfare) she'd be considered a hardship case and could get her teeth fixed. She said she would never be able to do this on her own without running herself into debt for a decade or so.

[greek_chorus]

Don't even get me started on dentists and dental plans. I have nothing good to say and hope to never buy another vacation home for another dentist ever again!!! :sick: :sick: :sick:

I finally finished reading Vyckie's story on the wayback machine and then read what's left of Angel's blog. In the past I never felt one way or another about Vyckie, but because she "vouched" for Ruth's existence I figured she must be real and that she just embellished her story. Here's the thing, Vyckie's silence is very concerning and if she were smart she would address this sooner rather than later. I don't see how continuing to stay silent on Ruth won't ultimately hurt her brand even if other survivor stories on NLQ are fakes.

Reading Vyckie's account of her Quiverfull life and then Angel's you would think they were strangers and certainly not members of the same family. Angel's blog, what's still public of it, is very damning towards Warren and Vyckie. Hindsight being what it is I can't help but give Vyckie the side-eye in this whole Ruth debacle. At best she's embarrassed and her pride won't let her acknowledge that she made a mistake in how she did or didn't vet Ruth and at worst she's complicit.

If we want to be crazy conspiracy nuts it is interesting the degree to which both Possum Momma and Vyckie are devout, public atheists (versus normal people who just go about their lives whether they believe in god or not) after having previously lived very religious lives. Vyckie's silence on the matter doesn't help especially when viewed in the context of her very public quarrel with Angel and Cailou's (sic) crazy blog post. In her post she says that Vyckie has spoken to Ruth on the phone more than once and Vyckie is convinced that Ruth is who Ruth says Ruth is.... But that's just it, who is Ruth? Either Ruth gave Vyckie her real name in which case Vyckie is complicit or Ruth gave her a fake name. Either way though, it wouldn't take more than five minutes of Vyckie's time to investigate and put the whole matter to rest. Of course RR/PM and Vyckie thrive on drama and victimhood and they would both be lost if we weren't here to talk about them.

edited for riffle