The Truth About Ruth - Part 4

[flyawaystray]

Well I don't think how anyone can think you're Ruth since the mods here confirmed via ip that there's only one Ruth, and no sockpuppets.

[DarkAnts]

This may be offensive to some here, lmao, but at a recent point in time I was very stoned and became convinced that I was somehow controlling the contents of my livejournal feed. Everything I saw there seemed directly related to things I had recently posted/read about! I had some profound revelation about the human condition that night but now I don't remember what it was.

This is why you need to write down everything while stoned. Then, you will have a written record to look at later on.

[Mama Mia]

In the Oprah/Sin in the Camp thread the posting was pretty far fetched. I looked back at some of her other posts and there were a few that were......interesting.

Speaking of the Internet vs life sychronicity:

I just had a friend who needed extensive dental work do a ton of real life and on line fundraiser s. The dental schools and subsidized places couldn't take on the extensive work she needed. she's very community involved so was able to raise money through her real life connections, and people who know her spreading the word. I think that's the difference with scammers...no one actually knows them.

[Lainey]

I missed something... :? I hate that when that happens. What did I miss? Somebody please put me back in the loop.

[Muriel Heslop]

I missed something... :? I hate that when that happens. What did I miss? Somebody please put me back in the loop.

Ditto! What just happened there?

[mebeforee]

This is why you need to write down everything while stoned. Then, you will have a written record to look at later on.

I actually have a notebook that I mangled while stoned (stapling together all the pages that I'd already used, I don't even know) and wrote in for a couple hours the last time I smoked. I'm afraid to look at it because what I remember of that experience indicates I was on the border of insanity. (I don't smoke very frequently anymore so when I do it hits me pretty hard, haha)

[Arete]

I missed something... :? I hate that when that happens. What did I miss? Somebody please put me back in the loop.

Odds put up a post on TAR about a young woman doing work with documenting and locating children missing in custodial kidnappings. This woman is out with her real name and can be identified. She also has some dental problems so she was having an online fundraiser to amass funds to get her teeth fixed. Odds posted this as a type of "palate cleanser" to the woman behind the RR scam. Meaning, here was a young woman who was open about her identity and doing some good work who was asking for money to fix a health problem, unlike RR.

A lot of people reacted badly to the post. It was deemed inappropriate by some people to highlight another person asking for money as a RR antidote when so many people had been taken in by an internet scammer. The woman's reasons for not being able to use the services of lower cost dental schools who do work with reduced fees also smelled off to some of us. First Odds took down the specific links to the fundraising, then she decided to make the entry private and take it off what is viewable on the site. She will provide a copy of the entry to people who ask for it. In the end, it was not worth the trust issues being brought up to risk saying that this particular person asking money on the internet was legitimate as opposed to the artist formerly known as RR. A lot of people have been hurt psychologically by the RR scam, and are gun shy about anyone asking for money on the internet. Odds apologized and has gone back to keeping the blog narrowly focused on the scams of RR/PM.

Minor dustup, everything is OK now.

[Muriel Heslop]

Odds put up a post on TAR about a young woman doing work with documenting and locating children missing in custodial kidnappings. This woman is out with her real name and can be identified. She also has some dental problems so she was having an online fundraiser to amass funds to get her teeth fixed. Odds posted this as a type of "palate cleanser" to the woman behind the RR scam. Meaning, here was a young woman who was open about her identity and doing some good work who was asking for money to fix a health problem, unlike RR.

A lot of people reacted badly to the post. It was deemed inappropriate by some people to highlight another person asking for money as a RR antidote when so many people had been taken in by an internet scammer. The woman's reasons for not being able to use the services of lower cost dental schools who do work with reduced fees also smelled off to some of us. First Odds took down the specific links to the fundraising, then she decided to make the entry private and take it off what is viewable on the site. She will provide a copy of the entry to people who ask for it. In the end, it was not worth the trust issues being brought up to risk saying that this particular person asking money on the internet was legitimate as opposed to the artist formerly known as RR. A lot of people have been hurt psychologically by the RR scam, and are gun shy about anyone asking for money on the internet. Odds apologized and has gone back to keeping the blog narrowly focused on the scams of RR/PM.

Minor dustup, everything is OK now.

Thanks for the recap.

[Palimpsest]

It's called Baader-Meinhof. An awkward name for a pretty common (at least I think so) phenomenon: http://www.damninteresting.com/the-baad ... henomenon/

But what just really weirded me out was that the reason I know the name of this phenomenon is because I just looked it up a week or so ago because of some other situation that fit. So now I'm in a vicious spiral of meta-Baader-Meinhoffing! :shifty:

You learn something every day! Strange name for the phenomenon though. Baader-Meinhof = Red Army Faction + German Autumn + Death Night to me. Dang, I'm getting old.

[boxedin]

After reading almost all of the threads and other websites about this, all I can say is...I wish I was here when it all went down!

I started reading and posting on Twop at about the same time as ofduggar appeared. I followed the same path to Free Jinger and NLQ. I knew that ofduggar was RR. I was surprised that RR was so young because I had thought ofduggar was older. ( more my age)

I was in the NLQ chatroom when Vyckie and RR were planning for RR to write her stories for NLQ. To my memory, RR was somewhat reluctant about putting her story on NLQ. They eventually came to the idea that RR would write with the theme of the character traits and relating those to her life. In retrospect nothing in this seemed part of a big scam, even though I had had Ofduggar/RR doubts from twop.

I did not believe all that RR wrote, some could be explained by changing facts to hide identity. I thought the story was 50% fiction and as she told more of her present drama, I believed it less. I stopped my membership to NLQ and Free Jinger at the same time. (I am the original person who asked to be banned from Yuku because I was too invested in drama from the sites.) Now I would read Razing Ruth from time to time and I missed out on the new job in Chicago and beyond.

I did think she was a partial fake from the beginning but it was entertaining. To my memory, the tip jar and swag bucks and ads seemed to be inspired by Emily making $$$ from her site. I may have to go check dates for reference. I had no idea that you could make so much money.

I believe that many of the survivor stories on NLQ are fiction. I think that that is why they are not taking Ruth down or making any reference to it on the NLQ site.

[laura oz]

I believe that many of the survivor stories on NLQ are fiction. I think that that is why they are not taking Ruth down or making any reference to it on the NLQ site.

The bolded: I got the same feeling about a year ago, and quit reading. I don't think Vickie cares if the stories are real or not. To her it's a business, and page clicks pay. I just can't stand her, but I liked her daughter's blog. You know, the one that we here at FJ made her write :roll: Vickie is a money hungry beast with a victim complex.

[Ruby Slippers]

RR scamming again. Who knows! There are better ways to donate than online. I like the idea of using a dental school. And dental schools do NOT charge the same or near the same as dentists as the scammer states. Another option is a reputable dentist in Mexico. I had dental work done in a major city in Mexico following a dental emergency and the care was first rate and was VERY inexpensive.

There are agencies that support people in need and I'm starting to think that it is better to donate to those agencies on behalf of a person or family than to a person directly.

Lol at "just go to Mexico" for medical treatment! (I realize that is not the point of this thread, but this suggestion is some funny shit).

[Whipple]

Lol at "just go to Mexico" for medical treatment! (I realize that is not the point of this thread, but this suggestion is some funny shit).

Kind of sad, isn't it? But really, I'm the kind of person who can't ask anyone for money--not even my closest friends. I would rather do something "creative"--barter or sell off all my stuff on Ebay or Craigslist and then head on down to the dental school. I didn't mean to foist the lame suggestion on others but for Christ's sake what really bothers me about these people is that they ask for money first. I know Mexico is crazy scary right now around the border towns so I guess that wasn't well thought out. It would have been an okay suggestion years ago.

[boxedin]

Razing Ruth blog started in June 2009. Reference to women wanting to help was January 2010. The money making scam snuck up on me. There also interesting entries concerning the NLQ/Angel/Free Jinger fiasco I was referencing. Must go back and read more. Interesting to read how all this overlaps with the scam artist's real life.

[Savoring Samsara]

The state dental school here is about half price of private dentists, but the catch is you have to be there pretty much ALL DAY because groups of students will come and examine you, prepare a scope of work proposal, get it approved, do the work, and then have their work looked over by the attending. Not so easy if you have a job but no benefits, which is probably why you're using the dental school to begin with!

This. Also, state dental schools are popular places. When I attempted to go to one to get some long-delayed treatment during my own period of financial instability, I was told that there was a waiting list of more than a year for any new patients.

[gezykah]

Kind of sad, isn't it? But really, I'm the kind of person who can't ask anyone for money--not even my closest friends. I would rather do something "creative"--barter or sell off all my stuff on Ebay or Craigslist and then head on down to the dental school. I didn't mean to foist the lame suggestion on others but for Christ's sake what really bothers me about these people is that they ask for money first. I know Mexico is crazy scary right now around the border towns so I guess that wasn't well thought out. It would have been an okay suggestion years ago.

I have a friend whose mother is from Costa Rica but has lived in the US for decades. She recently needed some dental work. For half the price it would've cost in the US she was able to travel to Costa Rica, take her daughter with her, spend two weeks there, and get the work done. I've known numerous people in situations like that over the years. Ideally people wouldn't have to think about leaving the country they live in to seek medical treatment but for some it's a viable option and the only one they can afford.

[Whipple]

This. Also, state dental schools are popular places. When I attempted to go to one to get some long-delayed treatment during my own period of financial instability, I was told that there was a waiting list of more than a year for any new patients.

It depends on the work you need. Sometimes they need a certain type of experience. They have to check off all the boxes for every procedure.

[lemonhead]

I believe that many of the survivor stories on NLQ are fiction. I think that that is why they are not taking Ruth down or making any reference to it on the NLQ site.

This is another one of the really unfortunate consequences of the RR fiasco. Her lies have resulted in loss of credibility for those of us who really have lived through the kinds of abuse described in the stories on NLQ (and many other blogs). The fallout is divisiveness and loss of trust within communities; it happened right here, with some people doubting and some believing. There are probably doubters at NLQ who can't speak their minds now that Vyckie has banned RR comments, and they may end up leaving that community. And there are people in the general public who will now doubt every story on NLQ and maybe any story they hear about growing up in and escaping from fundamentalism. There are people who will not share their stories because they're afraid of being disbelieved or accused of attention-seeking. RR took advantage of people's sympathies, and we have all been damaged by her malice and pathology.

(Note: I don't read NLQ anymore because the website is a mess, but I do think there are substantially true stories there. We see some of the more egregious examples of how religious extremism harms women and children in the news everyday.)

[Whipple]

For me to believe in a story in the future, there will have to be transparency. I know that some people feel that they are placing themselves at risk by revealing their identities or providing photos. However, that excuse is also an excellent cover for a scammer.

[nokidsmom]

This is another one of the really unfortunate consequences of the RR fiasco. Her lies have resulted in loss of credibility for those of us who really have lived through the kinds of abuse described in the stories on NLQ (and many other blogs). The fallout is divisiveness and loss of trust within communities; it happened right here, with some people doubting and some believing. There are probably doubters at NLQ who can't speak their minds now that Vyckie has banned RR comments, and they may end up leaving that community. And there are people in the general public who will now doubt every story on NLQ and maybe any story they hear about growing up in and escaping from fundamentalism. There are people who will not share their stories because they're afraid of being disbelieved or accused of attention-seeking. RR took advantage of people's sympathies, and we have all been damaged by her malice and pathology.

(Note: I don't read NLQ anymore because the website is a mess, but I do think there are substantially true stories there. We see some of the more egregious examples of how religious extremism harms women and children in the news everyday.)

That is truly the unfortunate part of this whole RR thing. While I don't read NLQ or any similar blogs, I have no doubt that some of the stories shared are real experiences and what RR has done will now call into question anyone who posts a survivors story. A potential source of support for these individuals is very diminished or gone entirely. And that's truly sad.

Just one more thing that's on RR's soul as far as I am concerned. What a sorry, sorry person.

[NurseNell]

I have a friend whose mother is from Costa Rica but has lived in the US for decades. She recently needed some dental work. For half the price it would've cost in the US she was able to travel to Costa Rica, take her daughter with her, spend two weeks there, and get the work done. I've known numerous people in situations like that over the years. Ideally people wouldn't have to think about leaving the country they live in to seek medical treatment but for some it's a viable option and the only one they can afford.

My landlady goes to Asia every year on a buying trip for her boutique. She gets her eye exam and buys her glasses there. She's never had any trouble with getting the wrong prescription. She can get 2 or 3 pairs of glasses for less than 1 pair here.

I've known several people who get their dental work done in Mexico.

[wild little fox]

The bolded: I got the same feeling about a year ago, and quit reading. I don't think Vickie cares if the stories are real or not. To her it's a business, and page clicks pay. I just can't stand her, but I liked her daughter's blog. You know, the one that we here at FJ made her write :roll: Vickie is a money hungry beast with a victim complex.

I am hurt over Vyckie's action/reactions far more than the whole RR fiasco. I knew there was a chance that RR was a fake or at the least exaggerated.

I belonged to the closed NLQ support group and I was getting a lot out of it. It was so much help talking to people who I didn't have to explain things. I left because I cannot be part of anything that Vyckie runs.

The truth is that Vyckie is hurting people who she says she will help. They just don't realize she is taking them for a ride.

[Dysfundamental]

You learn something every day! Strange name for the phenomenon though. Baader-Meinhof = Red Army Faction + German Autumn + Death Night to me. Dang, I'm getting old.

Us Gen X US types think of that as "Plate o' Shrimp", from the marvelous soliloquy about synchronicity in Repo Man.

[Mama Mia]

Lol at "just go to Mexico" for medical treatment! (I realize that is not the point of this thread, but this suggestion is some funny shit).

Why ? I know lots of people who go to Mexico for medicine or treatments, especially for things like dental work which even if you have insurance in the U.S. it generally doesn't cover much.

[nokidsmom]

Why ? I know lots of people who go to Mexico for medicine or treatments, especially for things like dental work which even if you have insurance in the U.S. it generally doesn't cover much.

Have a friend who regularly travels to Mexico for dental work and eye exams. Not sure he's done medical stuff though.

Also work with a guy who used to live in southern AZ just near the border. He's mentioned that dentists in the Tucson area have a tough time because of competition with the Mexican dentists.