The Handmaid's Tale

[StarrieEyedKat]

Go ahead and block off about 8 hours or so for the first book. You will not be able to put it down. If you also have a Kindle, the first book is only $4.69!

Seconded. I read the entire trilogy in less than a weekend (a mighty feat for someone with two little ones constantly underfoot) and my slow reader husband read it in less than a week. It's pretty fascinating, and they seem to be putting a lot of money, effort and time into the movies.

[finleeport]

The Handmaid's Tale is not a 'warning' or 'prediction' Margaret Atwood said that she doesn't do prophecies, just blue prints of things that could happen. She explains it very well on a PBS interview on Faith and Reason with Bill Moyers.

Here's the site;

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/faithandreaso ... twood.html

and then click on interview

[browngrl]

for those that liked the Hunger games might I suggest another book

"the knife of never letting go"

It is also a young adult novel. The themes of patriarchy/role of women/power/control are central to this novel

Excellent book

[O Latin]

I don't know, I guess I have a little bit of an issue with dystopian fiction because it's very popular in YA (which is what I write) right now, and it's just not my thing. And the whole "this could really happen" thing doesn't make any sense to me because I just don't see it. I don't think our rights are being slowly whittled away and before we know it we'll be living in some sort of horrible dictatorship. Maybe this is because I'm young or because of where I live, I don't know, but I don't see it.

[emmiedahl]

Anthem by Ayn Rand is a good dystopian novel. It's a lot like The Giver iirc. It's not political; liberals/conservatives/etc will not be offended.

[JesusFightClub]

Eh? Anthem is indeed political and IMO very badly written. Look at the plot line, it's against collectivism (and presents a warped caricature of it) like all of her work.

I actually like Rand's stuff because I like reading propaganda. But that's what it is. Also Anthem is the worst example of her work and reads like she wrote it in her lunch break.

[Pond]

I'm reading it at the moment. Even took it with me on holiday - which was a bad idea btw. From a literary standpoint, I think it's an excellent book which gives a really good insight on how women are treated within the patriarchy movement, down to the last grim details. I know Margaret Atwood is not a fundie, but her portrayal of fundies in the book is true to a large extent totally spot on to some of the families that have been discussed on here.

Plot-wise, however, it's absolutely horrid! Reading it and imagining what the women have to go through, having been subjected to believe that their place is at home submitting themselves completely to the men, is painful IMO. Sadly, I can totally see it happening if some of these wacko hardcore fundies ever got their way, what with their "us against the evil government" attitude and all that. Fundies having total control is frankly a nightmare coming true and this book is the perfect example of it.

Of course, that's just my impression of the book so far, I'm sure I'll be able to come with better analysis once I've finished with it.

[Austin]

I don't think our rights are being slowly whittled away and before we know it we'll be living in some sort of horrible dictatorship. Maybe this is because I'm young or because of where I live, I don't know, but I don't see it.

Really, O Latin? I think what you're really saying is that you don't believe any rights that affect you are being whittled away.

Forget the Patriot Act and all of its disastrous implications for American civil liberties. Let's just talk about my state: within the last six months, our legislature and government have severely weakened the right of Americans to organize and have eliminated it in some ways. Within the last several months, abortion for any reason, has been effectively outlawed with the "heartbeat" legislation that was passed and signed by our governor. FJers post all of the time about civil liberty issues in their own states (Texas comes to mind as a common problem state, not to mention Arizona) - do you not read that stuff?

I get that it doesn't affect you and so therefore you "don't see it". I get that you are young. But seriously?

I'm sorry to come off so sharply here, and I appreciate a lot of what you have to say, but your naivete is stunning to me. We need our young, bright citizens (of which you clearly are one) to understand the implications of what has happened over the last decade and continues to happen. I just hope you are an anomoly in your views.

This is not about a certain genre of literature. It's not a favorite of mine, either. But that has nothing to do with the actual rights are Americans have lost/are losing.

[meda]

Really, O Latin? I think what you're really saying is that you don't believe any rights that affect you are being whittled away.

Forget the Patriot Act and all of its disastrous implications for American civil liberties. Let's just talk about my state: within the last six months, our legislature and government have severely weakened the right of Americans to organize and have eliminated it in some ways. Within the last several months, abortion for any reason, has been effectively outlawed with the "heartbeat" legislation that was passed and signed by our governor. FJers post all of the time about civil liberty issues in their own states (Texas comes to mind as a common problem state, not to mention Arizona) - do you not read that stuff?

I get that it doesn't affect you and so therefore you "don't see it". I get that you are young. But seriously?

I'm sorry to come off so sharply here, and I appreciate a lot of what you have to say, but your naivete is stunning to me. We need our young, bright citizens (of which you clearly are one) to understand the implications of what has happened over the last decade and continues to happen. I just hope you are an anomoly in your views.

This is not about a certain genre of literature. It's not a favorite of mine, either. But that has nothing to do with the actual rights are Americans have lost/are losing.

:clap:

[Hane]

:clap:

:greetings-clapyellow:

O Latin, I don't want to pull the age card on you, but when you've lived on this earth nearly six decades and can see the differences society and government have gone through within your own lifetime, you'll see what we mean.

[O Latin]

Forget the Patriot Act and all of its disastrous implications for American civil liberties. Let's just talk about my state: within the last six months, our legislature and government have severely weakened the right of Americans to organize and have eliminated it in some ways. Within the last several months, abortion for any reason, has been effectively outlawed with the "heartbeat" legislation that was passed and signed by our governor. FJers post all of the time about civil liberty issues in their own states (Texas comes to mind as a common problem state, not to mention Arizona) - do you not read that stuff?

I do see these things (my state has been trying to get rid of unions and limit abortion, too), I just don't see them as being the first step toward some sort of dystopian-esque totalitarian government. I think they're minor steps backward that will be forgotten in a few years and things will move forward again. You can't reverse history. It just doesn't work that way.

I'm sorry to come off so sharply here, and I appreciate a lot of what you have to say, but your naivete is stunning to me. We need our young, bright citizens (of which you clearly are one) to understand the implications of what has happened over the last decade and continues to happen. I just hope you are an anomoly in your views.

But what am I (or anybody else) supposed to do about it? Being aware of what's going on isn't going to change it.

This is not about a certain genre of literature. It's not a favorite of mine, either. But that has nothing to do with the actual rights are Americans have lost/are losing.

This was the point I was originally trying to make. If people want to try to call attention to the problems they see in society, fine, good for them. But it drives me nuts when people wave their favorite dystopian novel and say, "This is going to happen." That just seems like an attempt to scare other people into thinking the way you (general, not you specifically) do.

Hane, you are probably right, and I would be curious to know what has changed in your lifetime that has led you to think this way. I'm not being snarky at all, here, I really want to know.

[Rosa]

One thing for plausibility (because I think Handmaid's Tale is the one sf-themed book she's done where she actually thought about mechanics instead of just jumping right in to the vision) is that even though the society Offred is living in considers itself "The United States" it may actually not be very big - there are throwaway mentions of rebel areas unconquered still, and "the war" is not going well for the government her Commander is in.

One thing I think we all need to do is not shrug off these kinds of beliefs as harmless eccentricities. History isn't inexorable progress; ideas come in and out of fashion, and a lot of those ideas (like "slavery" and "debtor's prison" and "disease is caused by personal lack of virtue") have very concrete expressions for people. I don't like to get into political or religious arguments with people, but instead of shrugging off that "men are the headship!" and "Kids should be afraid of parents, it's what keeps them in line!" crap when I run into it, I say something. Even if it's as mild as "Even when he's wrong?" or "I want my kid to be good even when I'm not looking."

[Austin]

I do see these things (my state has been trying to get rid of unions and limit abortion, too), I just don't see them as being the first step toward some sort of dystopian-esque totalitarian government. I think they're minor steps backward that will be forgotten in a few years and things will move forward again. You can't reverse history. It just doesn't work that way.

But what am I (or anybody else) supposed to do about it? Being aware of what's going on isn't going to change it.

Latin O, you didn't even sound like you were (or want to be) aware of it. Here's your quote:

Maybe this is because I'm young or because of where I live, I don't know, but I don't see it.

And "Being aware of what's going on isn't going to change it" is about the most frightening thing I've heard out of the mouth (or keyboard) of someone your age lately, and I'm around people your age A LOT. Think about it.

We can do a lot about it. Reverse history? What are you talking about? Bad legislation and legislation that strips citizens of rights guaranteed to us by our Constitution can be and is changed - has happened with frequency throughout our country's history. What about Dred Scott v Sanford or Plessy v Furguson (there are a bazillion, but these should ring a bell)?

If what you really want to say is that you just don't care about these issues, then fine. I'd have a lot more respect for that because there are millions of apathetic people in this country and you'd have lots of company.

[VodouDoll]

I do see these things (my state has been trying to get rid of unions and limit abortion, too), I just don't see them as being the first step toward some sort of dystopian-esque totalitarian government. I think they're minor steps backward that will be forgotten in a few years and things will move forward again. You can't reverse history. It just doesn't work that way.

Doesn't it? If you compare Tehran in the 1960s to Tehran after the Ayatollah came to power, you might form a different opinion on whether social progress can be reversed. Even Afghanistan, with all of its problems, at least had legally mandated gender equality before the Taliban took over in the mid-90s. Do you think the plight of women since then, their horrific lives under the Taliban, is just a short blip or a minor step backward? Societies can and do regress all the time, especially when religious fundamentalists come into political power.

[Guest Anonymous]

Doesn't it? If you compare Tehran in the 1960s to Tehran after the Ayatollah came to power, you might form a different opinion on whether social progress can be reversed. Societies can and do regress all the time, especially when religious fundamentalists come into political power.

In many states abortions are more difficult to come by in 2011 than they were in 1974. That looks a lot like reversing history to me. Reproductive rights are being chipped away at and if abortion goes birth control pills will be next on the agenda. I don't make this stuff up, the people pushing for it flat out admit it. If having no control over how many babies one has isn't dystopian and authoritarian, then you can slap an apron on me and call me June Cleaver.

If the current developments are to be forgotten so that we can once again move forward, it will be because those of us who oppose them make that happen - through voting, activisim, being politically aware, and generally not sitting down and shutting up.

Political climate is often viewed as a pendulum that swings from left to right. That happens because when it goes too far one way, people get fed up and mobilize, pushing against the way things are. If no one pushes back, it's entirely possible for the pendulum to stick at one side.

[Patsy]

History is not a linear progression all in one direction. To give one civil rights example: The lot for gay men in cities of the U.S. was far better in the 20s than it was in the 40s. It got worse, and worse, and then around the 70s started to get better, and most people assume that things were always shitty before that. Not so. And what is the stripping of rights if not a "reversal" of history, just on a smaller scale than the revolution of an entire society?

[denimjumper]

I listened to that book as a book on tape from the library years ago as part of a book club! It burned some very disturbing images into my head (people on meat hooks anyone anyone?). The whole thing was bizarre and disturbing and creepy.

[Patsy]

On-topic: I haven't read it, and I don't plan to. It's the sort of thing I'd usually be interested in, but I think I'd only be depressed, and wouldn't find any illumination in it. To me, that isn't worth it. My brother saw the movie of it and asked me if I'd heard of it, when I said it was originally a book that I hadn't read, he told me not to. I'll, er, obey my male relatives as a pattern of headship on this one.

[VodouDoll]

But what am I (or anybody else) supposed to do about it? Being aware of what's going on isn't going to change it.

Where would we be now if the founding fathers or Martin Luther King, Jr., had thought this way? Being aware of what's going on is the first step to changing things. Caring enough to try is the second step.

[desertvixen]

Her post apocalypic books are a warning not an endorsement.

What's scary is some of the people we follow would not get that it's not a how-to book....

As far as history not being reversible, HISTORY may not be reversible, but PROGRESS can be -if for nothing else than because one person's progress is another person's outrage. Simply being aware of it does not make a difference - but it tends to lead to action. The abortion issue is a great example of this - anti-choice people don't need to overturn Roe, not when they can administer the death of a thousand cuts to it, and just make it next to impossible for women to exercise their right.

[Hane]

Political climate is often viewed as a pendulum that swings from left to right. That happens because when it goes too far one way, people get fed up and mobilize, pushing against the way things are. If no one pushes back, it's entirely possible for the pendulum to stick at one side.

C'est vrai. I've seen this happen so many times in my lifetime it's nowhere near funny.

[O Latin]

I am sort of pessimistic about the ability of “the people†to create significant change. To use a slightly less controversial example, the legislature in my state has been cutting education left and right for the last couple of years. Large numbers of people are very aware and very pissed, yet the cuts keep coming. There have been rallies and petitions and even an attempt to recall the state superintendent of education, none of it successful. What more are we supposed to do?

Just because someone doesn’t agree with your view of a particular issue doesn’t make them ignorant. I might be very aware of the chipping away of abortion rights, but think that’s a good thing (I’m not saying I do, I’m just using this as an example). That wouldn’t necessarily mean I’m opposed to all birth control or women’s rights. The world isn’t divided into pro-choice and dominionist fundies.

No, I don’t care about every issue, obviously. I don’t even know about every issue. That doesn’t mean I don’t know or care about anything.

What I was originally trying to say was just that I don’t perceive the U.S. as heading down the road to dystopia. That’s what I meant when I said “I don’t see it.†I see problems. I see some groups trying to take away what others consider to be fundamental rights. But I think we’ll be okay. Obviously I can’t predict the future any more than anyone else can. That’s just my opinion.

[emmiedahl]

Eh? Anthem is indeed political and IMO very badly written. Look at the plot line, it's against collectivism (and presents a warped caricature of it) like all of her work.

I actually like Rand's stuff because I like reading propaganda. But that's what it is. Also Anthem is the worst example of her work and reads like she wrote it in her lunch break.

Eh. I didn't think it was political as in left vs. right. Almost all dystopian novels focus on collectivism because it is almost an essential part of either a utopia OR a dystopia.

It is not her best work; in my opinion, We the Living is the only really good thing that Rand wrote and it is one of my favorite novels also. That's because it is NOT propaganda, unlike The Fountainhead, but a semi-autobiographical account of her experiences after the revolution in Russia.

[browngrl]

I am sort of pessimistic about the ability of “the people†to create significant change. To use a slightly less controversial example, the legislature in my state has been cutting education left and right for the last couple of years. Large numbers of people are very aware and very pissed, yet the cuts keep coming. There have been rallies and petitions and even an attempt to recall the state superintendent of education, none of it successful. What more are we supposed to do?

Just because someone doesn’t agree with your view of a particular issue doesn’t make them ignorant. I might be very aware of the chipping away of abortion rights, but think that’s a good thing (I’m not saying I do, I’m just using this as an example). That wouldn’t necessarily mean I’m opposed to all birth control or women’s rights. The world isn’t divided into pro-choice and dominionist fundies.

No, I don’t care about every issue, obviously. I don’t even know about every issue. That doesn’t mean I don’t know or care about anything.

What I was originally trying to say was just that I don’t perceive the U.S. as heading down the road to dystopia. That’s what I meant when I said “I don’t see it.†I see problems. I see some groups trying to take away what others consider to be fundamental rights. But I think we’ll be okay. Obviously I can’t predict the future any more than anyone else can. That’s just my opinion.

I'm a lot older than you - which may account for my opinion. However I have seen an escalation in the erosion of many of the fundamental rights that generations prior to us have fought so hard for. This is particularly true for women. One need only look at Iran over the course of that last few decades. One day women could go to school/work/have choice and in the a very short period they were covered up and shut up. Things went very quickly from not that bad to horrible (and truly dystopian) for women. Fundamentalism seems ever so benign when woman bloggers talk about how much they love being at home with their dear children and submitting to wise and kind husbands but behind that pleasant facade is a cold hard truth: it is the way of the fundamentalists or no way. I fear the problem of eroding rights/choices is going to get much worse in the future because so many people seem apathetic - "I don't see a problem", "it doesn't affect me" "the problem is too big" "the system will just correct itself" are common excuses I have heard. I fear that we could well be heading into a future where more and more of our choices are taken away and in my own life I try and volunteer/donate to causes that I hope will help stem this tide. I have no advice for you on what to do except a quote from Mother Teresa who said "“We cannot do great things on this Earth, only small things with great love.â€

[emmiedahl]

I think that one of the best things we can do is to speak out against some of the trends that we see. Many people don't understand how bad a traditional society can get, or why a certain law sets us on a slippery slope to less freedom and autonomy. If someone brings up how awesome the Duggars are, then call them on it. If someone is against gay marriage, ask them why and then politely tell them why you feel differently. Be a walking PSA; if you are polite and respectful about it, many people will consider your POV.

Also, one person's utopia is another's dystopia. I read Walden Two and shudder; I would be so unhappy in that "utopia" but at least I would have the option to leave. Whenever someone wants to take away your free will to make your life better, RUN.