Pope Francis shaking things up?

[Diana]

That said...even my Mom, as fundie as it got, revealed to me that on her wedding day she was stopped by the priest and told that she had to sign a paper saying she promised to have children and raise them Catholic. This was back in the 60s; she went through the "Pre-Cana" rigamarole but for some reason this priest decided to corner my Mom on her wedding day about this.

But your mom was catholic baptized and everything? because i know that according canonical law a not catholic christian can marry whit a catholic in the church if they promisse to raise their children catholic, thought i dont understand why the priest wait to the wedding day for that, because that is something they should talked about in the premarital course, when the priest is supposed to explain what implies the catholic marriage and all of that, maybe this priest was a little crazy or wanted to make sure that the marriage couldnt be annulled in the future or something, but is weird.

[theologygeek]

The problem is though, if they are supporting their church, they are supporting what the Church believes.

People are hypocrites if they single out one organization and belittle others for participating in that organization. Apple outsources 100% of it's manufacturing to China instead of bringing the work to the US. If you have an Apple product, you gave your money to a company that doesn't care about people who are are jobless. If you buy Hershey products, you gave your money to a company that funds a school that denied admission to an HIV positive boy. If LGBT rights are your mission in life, stay away from all the companies on this list. http://blogs.phillymag.com/the_philly_p ... companies/ As the writer said "I wouldn't want anyone to think you're a hypocrite." While you're at it, boycott these companies too. They are trying to kill us with GMO poison. http://www.organicconsumers.org/article ... _26620.cfm Stop supporting Obama. He just signed the Monsanto Protection Act. He's trying to kill us too. The list is endless.

By your own words "If they are supporting xxx, they are supporting what xxx believes."

[fundiefun]

People are hypocrites if they single out one organization and belittle others for participating in that organization. Apple outsources 100% of it's manufacturing to China instead of bringing the work to the US. If you have an Apple product, you gave your money to a company that doesn't care about people who are are jobless. If you buy Hershey products, you gave your money to a company that funds a school that denied admission to an HIV positive boy. If LGBT rights are your mission in life, stay away from all the companies on this list. http://blogs.phillymag.com/the_philly_p ... companies/ As the writer said "I wouldn't want anyone to think you're a hypocrite." While you're at it, boycott these companies too. They are trying to kill us with GMO poison. http://www.organicconsumers.org/article ... _26620.cfm Stop supporting Obama. He just signed the Monsanto Protection Act. He's trying to kill us too. The list is endless.

By your own words "If they are supporting xxx, they are supporting what xxx believes."

I second that and like I posted there Catholic groups on the left side trying to get their message out look up Catholics for Equality who support gay marriage and Catholics for Choice who support contraception and believe every women has a right to contraception and safe abortions. There are those of us who are trying to change things so to lump us all into one category is painting all of us homophobic women haters. I refuse to leave the church, but support organizations like those mentioned above who are trying to change things.

[LadyFriend]

I'm curious about the opinion of the anti-Catholics regarding Catholic churches that actively support the inclusion of glbt members, and promote a philosophy of inclusion ? I found this website on a quick search, which lists some of the parishes in the U.S. that do this ( and I know it isn't a complete list because it missed a local parish which I know is actively inclusive ) newwaysministry.org

I applaud the efforts, but I still find the organization toxic. I find the basic tenants of Christianity to be repugnant though (original sin, substitutional atonement, a psychopath of a deity) so I still see the core teachings as incredibly harmful (psychologically and socially).

I find it really difficult to imagine a version of the Catholic Church that isn't seeped in sexism. (I recognize that it's much easier to say this as an atheist, but...) I cannot imagine any amount of social cohension/comfort/good works being enough to convince me to join or support a group like that.

[theologygeek]

QFT

If one chooses to worship in a Catholic Church, one must also accept that he or she is supporting an organization that makes excuses for child rape. And if one can overlook that, and make excuses for it, "Oh, we're not all like that" or "I'm Catholic but..." well, cognitive dissonance much?

If you pay a cable company, then you do realize that you helped fund the house that the Duggars are living in, don't you? Your money is also helping to feed all those little critters, and allowing them to travel the world. I didn't know you supported the Duggars. You must, since you are helping to pay their salaries. Anyone here who pays a cable bill to have tv is helping the Duggars, since tv stations receive money from cable companies.

[Savoring Samsara]

The institutional inertia of the Roman Catholic Church is such that while celibacy for priests is likely on the way out and there may be female priests in my lifetime, I wouldn't be surprised if gay marriage still isn't allowed by their doctrine even 100 years from now.

For what it's worth: my brother-in-law is a Dominican monk and prior, and therefore he has a certain amount of proximity to a lot of this internal turmoil within the Catholic Church. His professional opinion is that there will be female priests in his lifetime (he's 26, though, so that could still be a long time coming...), but that celibacy will probably continue to be required. The shortage of parish priests is apparently becoming REALLY dire, and he says that expanding the priesthood to all religious poses a lot fewer logistical challenges than asking a parish to provide financial support and housing to a priest, his wife, and the many children that will inevitably result in a presumably-non-birth-control-using Catholic family, instead of just a single priest who has much simpler living requirements. So, make of that what you will, I guess.

[salex]

I think it's a really encouraging sign that 10 days into the job, The new pope is making some changes in the Catholic Church like including women in this ceremony.

http://m.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/ ... et-washing

I am not roman catholic, so what the Pope does or doesn't do means very little to me.. it is of general interest just as what the Dalai Lama might do--no real impact on me.

Whatever he does cn be undone by the next guy-- but he was voted on, maybe the cardinals are all suddenly going more egalitarian -- or maybe he'll die early in his reign.

[LilMissMetaphor]

the only solution would be to accept that you're a shitty person.

[LilMissMetaphor]

I second that and like I posted there Catholic groups on the left side trying to get their message out look up Catholics for Equality who support gay marriage and Catholics for Choice who support contraception and believe every women has a right to contraception and safe abortions.

Please translate this into something bearing more than a vague resemblance to English, for those of us who are not garbleophones.

[Renting with Raggles]

I appreciate Catholics who are trying to change the system from within;however, I think this effort is ultimately a forlorn hope. The church hierarchy has made it clear that they will not change, and they don't give a shit about Western Catholics who feel a connection to the pretty ceremony and nostalgia for the traditions of their families. If you don't follow the dogma, they are happy to kick you out. Of course, if they can't hear your criticisms, they're perfectly willing to take your money in the collection plate.

I'm fairly cynical about this new papal pose of "oh we just love the poors soooooo much!" I think they know they're bleeding members in the industrialized West, and even Christmas & Easter Catholics aren't going to give enough to keep the priests fat. So they're deliberately trying to woo the vast populations of the third world, because they know that people who can't read or write are waaaay more likely to tithe as much as they can to secure a seat in heaven and escape their shitty lives in the here-and-now. And those people won't ask awkward questions about where the money goes, or launch lawsuits when the alter boys and orphans are molested, the way the liberal, well-educated Catholics do.

I think they're happy to drag the church back to the Middle Ages: ruling at the top of the feudal food chain, monopolizing the charity business in countries with no government welfare (sweet deal when you only have to give to the "deserving" poor, and hey, if the hospital money runs out you can always tell the kids how holy it is to die while suffering!), and ensuring future generations of serfs parishioners (you're starving? Here, have some more babies!). They had it pretty good a few centuries ago and these guys know exactly how they can have it again.

So I don't condemn liberal Catholics for sticking with the church, but I would warn them that they'll be the first under the bus when the humble pope frank and his buddies launch the counter-reformation part 2.

[fundiefun]

Please translate this into something bearing more than a vague resemblance to English, for those of us who are not garbleophones.

Sorry I posted this in a hurry running out on errands.

I second that and like I posted there Catholic groups on the left side trying to get their message out. There is Catholics for Equality who support gay marriage. There's Catholics for Choice who support contraception and believe every women has a right to contraception and safe abortions. I support these organizations and the number of supporters are starting to grow so I have some hope in that.

[Marilla-Cuthbert2013]

For what it's worth: my brother-in-law is a Dominican monk and prior, and therefore he has a certain amount of proximity to a lot of this internal turmoil within the Catholic Church. His professional opinion is that there will be female priests in his lifetime (he's 26, though, so that could still be a long time coming...), but that celibacy will probably continue to be required. The shortage of parish priests is apparently becoming REALLY dire, and he says that expanding the priesthood to all religious poses a lot fewer logistical challenges than asking a parish to provide financial support and housing to a priest, his wife, and the many children that will inevitably result in a presumably-non-birth-control-using Catholic family, instead of just a single priest who has much simpler living requirements. So, make of that what you will, I guess.

Actually only Catholic Priests who were born Catholic must take the vow of celibacy. I believe if you were an ordained minister in a Protstant Religion like the Episcopal Church, if you convert to Catholocism, you can become a Catholic Priest and still be married with kids. Kind of a bit hypocritical, I know.

[Bethella]

Actually only Catholic Priests who were born Catholic must take the vow of celibacy. I believe if you were an ordained minister in a Protstant Religion like the Episcopal Church, if you convert to Catholocism, you can become a Catholic Priest and still be married with kids. Kind of a bit hypocritical, I know.

But that only applies to Protestant ministers who are already married and then convert to Catholicism. I don't see them allowing someone who is already a Catholic priest get married, or allowing a currently married Catholic to become a priest (although they do currently allow widowers to become priests)

[PennySycamore]

Actually only Catholic Priests who were born Catholic must take the vow of celibacy. I believe if you were an ordained minister in a Protstant Religion like the Episcopal Church, if you convert to Catholocism, you can become a Catholic Priest and still be married with kids. Kind of a bit hypocritical, I know.

And priests in the most churches of the Eastern Rite of the Roman Catholic Church may be married. They must be married prior to ordination. however.

[yewchapel]

Your source was out-dated. The ban was modified in 2011. http://www.catholicculture.org/news/hea ... ryid=12211

A Royal can now marry a Catholic, but a Catholic still can't become the actual Monarch. The Queen (King) is still titular Head of the Church of England. So a Catholic marrying an heir in-line to the throne would have to agree to bring any offspring up C of E, I suppose. Against Vatican rules if you want a dispensation . . .

The monarch is Supreme Governor of the CoE, not Head. There is no Head of the CoE but Christ. The Archbishop of Canterbury has a 'first amongst equals' role and isn't head of the church in the same way that the Pope is head of the RCC.

[Marilla-Cuthbert2013]

But that only applies to Protestant ministers who are already married and then convert to Catholicism. I don't see them allowing someone who is already a Catholic priest get married, or allowing a currently married Catholic to become a priest (although they do currently allow widowers to become priests)

Oops, I left out that part (in my head I didn't, but in my response I did), and I totally forgot about the Eastern Rite.