Pope Francis shaking things up?

[Irishy]

I think it's a really encouraging sign that 10 days into the job, The new pope is making some changes in the Catholic Church like including women in this ceremony.

http://m.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/ ... et-washing

[Lillybee]

He is interesting. I love that he has decided against living in the Papal apartment but instead has chosen to live with some regular priests. I still am conflicted over what he did or did not do in Argentina against the dictatorship that was active there and I worry about the "disappeared".

[Irishy]

They really don't like him over at fisheaters which is a good thing in my book.

From the comments...

http://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/d025_Jorge.htm

‘Call Me Jorge’

Marian T. Horvat, Ph.D.

Among many egalitarian innovations of the new Pope, one that is particularly shocking is his constant disregard for the papal titles. Since the title represents the office, one can only suspect that he holds the traditional idea of the Pope as Supreme Pontiff as superfluous, remnants of a still lingering medieval monarchical mentality that he is trying to eradicate.

Hi buddy, I'm Jorge

One does not win points with Jorge Bergoglio by calling him Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church (Summus Pontifex Ecclesiae Universalis) or just the Sovereign Pontiff (in Latin, Summus Pontifex). He refers to himself as the Bishop of Rome, just the first among equals of the Cardinals.

As for addressing him with the traditional title “Your Holiness,†which seems the bare minimum of respect to show for the Head of the Catholic Church, even that is no longer necessary.

When he is asked what he should be called, he responds quickly, “Just call me Jorge.â€

‘Just call me Jorge’

José María del Corral, director of the ‘School of Neighbors’ educational program in Buenos Aires was one of the Pope’s special guests at his Inaugural Mass.

In passing, let me stress that this school, an initiative supported by Card. Bergoglio, is not to catechize the youth in the Catholic Faith. Rather, it brings together young people of different religions to teach them tolerance and “respect†for their differences. In effect, it promotes religious indifference.

Corral telling his story in St. Peter's Square

When Corral “bumped into†the Pope in the elevator, he asked, “How should I refer to you now?â€

The Pope answered, “Call me Jorge, what else?â€

This egalitarian gesture brought tears of joy to Corral’s eyes. I think it should bring tears of sorrow to the eyes of Catholics who love and revere the See of Peter and all that it represents.

No longer official titles

Then there is the report about how he was calling the Archdiocese of Buenos Aires to check in before celebrating Mass in St. Peter´s Square. This Jesuit, who should love the papacy above all things, instead loves to show the Pope is nothing but one of the people. This is why he makes his own phone calls.

When a nun answered the phone, she asked “Who is calling?†and he said “Father Jorge.†The nun said “Your Holiness?†He responded, “Oh no, it's Father Jorge,†as if to say that this was not a time for official titles.

‘Cardinal Jorge speaking’

There is also the story circulating about how the Pope called the street newsstand in Buenos Aires where he purchased his daily paper for the last years. He wanted to cancel the subscription. Daniel del Regno answered the phone and heard a familiar voice, “Hello Daniel, Cardinal Jorge speaking.â€

The man thought it was one of his friends playing a joke on him, but the Pope insisted, “I’m serious. I’m Jorge Bergoglio. I am calling you from Rome.â€

Luis de Regno, father of Daniel, owner of the newstand

And Daniel, realizing it was the Supreme Pontiff speaking, also broke down in tears.

Later that day “Cardinal Jorge†telephoned his dentist to cancel his May teeth cleaning appointment. Then he made other calls, one to terminate his phone cell service, and another to give his plumber detailed instructions on fixing the showers in the bishop's residence next to the Basilica.

"One thing nice about this job," noted Pope Francis about the Papacy, "is that I have lots of free time. Everything in the Church is running smoothly."

If actually he has lots of free time, it is not difficult to surmise that he is using all of it to destroy the dignity of the Papacy. In the two weeks since he became Pope, he had already destroyed as many symbols of the Papacy as the other five conciliar Popes together before him…

By the way, if the Pope has so much free time, as Francis says, why did Benedict XVI renounce the office alleging he could not handle the overwhelming weight of governing the entire Catholic Church? One of the two Popes seems to not be telling us the truth…

Posted March 27, 2013

[snarktastic]

I'm an atheist, a feminist etc and so not a natural fan of the Catholic church, but I have to admit I'm kind of liking quite a bit about this guy.

[Nothing2CHere]

If actually he has lots of free time, it is not difficult to surmise that he is using all of it to destroy the dignity of the Papacy. In the two weeks since he became Pope, he had already destroyed as many symbols of the Papacy as the other five conciliar Popes together before him…

Or maybe...just possibly...he is trying to actually be a pope that is emulating the Jesus of the gospels? Taking those "What would Jesus do?" bracelets to heart and doing what Jesus would actually do.

I'm with you, Irishy. I'm still holding my breath, but crossing my fingers that things are looking better for the Catholic church.

[Mela99]

I'm not disappointed thus far. But we shall see.

[valsa]

I'm a natural cynic so I can't help but feel he's essentially just doing the same thing "fundie lite" people do- putting an appealing and personable face on the same old dangerous and bigoted belief system.

[OkToBeTakei]

I'm a natural cynic so I can't help but feel he's essentially just doing the same thing "fundie lite" people do- putting an appealing and personable face on the same old dangerous and bigoted belief system.

You're a cynic? I never noticed :P

Kind of agree. But I'm an optimistic cynic if that makes any sense. Time will tell I suppose. Any progression is good. I'll break out the bunting when I see him perform the first gay marriage in the Catholic church.

[freejugar]

I'm an atheist, a feminist etc and so not a natural fan of the Catholic church, but I have to admit I'm kind of liking quite a bit about this guy.

nope

i'm argentinian and if it were up to him, gays wouldn't be able to marry and adopt here and trans people wouldn't be able to legally change their names

[Sky_Diamond]

I'm a natural cynic so I can't help but feel he's essentially just doing the same thing "fundie lite" people do- putting an appealing and personable face on the same old dangerous and bigoted belief system.

Exactly. He can be as personable and down to earth as he wants but in reality, it is just a smokescreen, hiding outdated beliefs.

Until he or the next pope openly admits: that women are equal and deserve to be priests, everyone regardless of orientation should have the same right to express their god given love in a sanctioned way if they desire. Also allowing contraception even for a married couple to prevent the spread of HIV or reduce overpopulation.

It's with sadness that I write this on a day where we mourn a progressive religious leader who died for the love of mankind. Jesus had women followers who played a vital role. I'm pretty sure he would hate all the evil and ignorance that is waged in his name.

[Hane]

They really don't like him over at fisheaters which is a good thing in my book.

Fisheaters: No longer content to try to out-holy the priest--now they want to out-holy the Pope.

[Irishy]

It's very much a story in progress and I suppose we'll end up disappointed but it's very interesting to watch.

[ceg045]

Count me in with the cynics. I think a lot of what he's doing is fluff/window dressing designed to make people more complacent/accepting toward a bigoted system. Sort of akin to an American president's much vaunted "first 100 days" in office, when they press for a lot of token legislation while avoiding the bigger problems at hand.

[Curious]

I'm a....recovering Catholic...who has not practiced in many years, but when I read the bit quoted there, especially the part about making his own phone calls. That doesn't sound to me like someone spitting in the face of the papal office. Rather it sounds like a man, who has built relationships with the folks that were around him, his regular newsstand guy, his plumber, etc and rather than have his new staff make the calls for him, he wanted to "say goodbye" to those people himself because that's the kind of person he is. Religion, Office etc, notwithstanding.

Just because you are now the Pope doesn't mean you are no longer a human. The guy that was 2 weeks ago "just Jorge" is still in there and I think him remembering that might be a good thing, if it continues.

[crazyforkate]

I'm wondering if the Cardinals got more than they bargained for when they chose him!

As for Pope Francis...he seems like a really good guy who subscribes to some pretty rotten beliefs (but come on guys, it's the Pope - he's not going to support same-sex marriage or start passing out condoms). He's doing his best to be humble and to include people, and I really do believe he means well. Time will tell of course - he has years to screw up - but I'm liking his gestures so far. Even gestures can mean something.

[theologygeek]

nope

i'm argentinian and if it were up to him, gays wouldn't be able to marry and adopt here and trans people wouldn't be able to legally change their names

I like this pope a lot, and I may even return to church. I guess everyone has their "thing." Fundies don't vote for Obama because he is pro choice. But they don't look at anything else because abortion is their thing. My "thing" is service to the poor and suffering, and this pope is big on that. He has said mass for prostitutes and drug addicts, and has also washed their feet. He said mass yesterday at a jail and washed the feet of the inmates. I like that he is acting on Jesus' messages and not just preaching them. He's a Jesuit, and the Jesuits are a pretty cool bunch.

[VooDooChild]

I'm wondering if the Cardinals got more than they bargained for when they chose him!

As for Pope Francis...he seems like a really good guy who subscribes to some pretty rotten beliefs (but come on guys, it's the Pope - he's not going to support same-sex marriage or start passing out condoms). He's doing his best to be humble and to include people, and I really do believe he means well. Time will tell of course - he has years to screw up - but I'm liking his gestures so far. Even gestures can mean something.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on the Pope. Time will tell.

[theologygeek]

I'm wondering if the Cardinals got more than they bargained for when they chose him!

As for Pope Francis...he seems like a really good guy who subscribes to some pretty rotten beliefs (but come on guys, it's the Pope - he's not going to support same-sex marriage or start passing out condoms). .

I agree. It's kinda funny to hear people say "But this pope is against gay marriage." Did anyone think a pope would be for it? lol

[lilwriter85]

They really don't like him over at fisheaters which is a good thing in my book.

From the comments...

I have lurked several times on fisheaters. Those people are pretty extreme. Catholic Answers has some crazy posters too.

[OkToBeTakei]

I agree. It's kinda funny to hear people say "But this pope is against gay marriage." Did anyone think a pope would be for it? lol

:lol: No. It's just an extreme to use. My optimistic cynicism would like to see it eventually. The condoms might just happen. Marriage for priests would be good.

If he makes it past the first month :P

[ceg045]

I agree. It's kinda funny to hear people say "But this pope is against gay marriage." Did anyone think a pope would be for it? lol

No, but I don't give anyone a pass for bigotry. It's obviously not realistic that popes will support women priests and gay marriage in the foreseeable future, so for the foreseeable future I will not be supporting the Vatican.

[theologygeek]

I have lurked several times on fisheaters. Those people are pretty extreme. Catholic Answers has some crazy posters too.

Wow. That really was pretty extreme. Stuff like calling the plumber makes me like him even more.

[rward]

I like this pope a lot, and I may even return to church. I guess everyone has their "thing." Fundies don't vote for Obama because he is pro choice. But they don't look at anything else because abortion is their thing. My "thing" is service to the poor and suffering, and this pope is big on that. He has said mass for prostitutes and drug addicts, and has also washed their feet. He said mass yesterday at a jail and washed the feet of the inmates. I like that he is acting on Jesus' messages and not just preaching them. He's a Jesuit, and the Jesuits are a pretty cool bunch.

Because you can't help the poor and suffering without belonging to the Catholic Church? Because it's somehow okay to toss aside the struggles of gay and trans people because hey, to you, cisgender and hetero you, the poor are so much more important? Okay, then.

[VooDooChild]

Because you can't help the poor and suffering without belonging to the Catholic Church? Because it's somehow okay to toss aside the struggles of gay and trans people because hey, to you, cisgender and hetero you, the poor are so much more important? Okay, then.

Well, when he says mass for and washes the feet of gays and trans-gendered people I might be inclined to be more impressed. Those should be things done for ALL humans.

[valsa]

Because you can't help the poor and suffering without belonging to the Catholic Church? Because it's somehow okay to toss aside the struggles of gay and trans people because hey, to you, cisgender and hetero you, the poor are so much more important? Okay, then.

This. So much this.

I don't give a pass to fundies of any stripe just because they're "nice" because, in the end, their beliefs aren't really nice at all.

We're not talking about someone who is okay with gay people living their lives but just can't officially sanction certain activities. This is someone who called gay marriage a work of Satan and considers gay marriage and gay parenting to be that same as discrimination against children. These are not benign beliefs, nor do they signal that his bigotry against gay people is limited to the technical confines of church teachings.

If some Duggar leg humper came out and said "I like the Duggars even though I know they hate gay people and have messed up views about gender roles. But they're so nice and wholesome. And they help disadvantaged people!*", I can't imagine that sitting well with many people here.

* I think the Duggars' volunteer fire-fighting and trips to overseas orphanages help about as much as an institution that tries to help the poor by denouncing some of the very things that could help them most (study upon study shows that when women have more control over their fertility, their quality of life improves and that when the quality of life for women in a society improves, so does the overall quality of living for that society)