What would a fundie wife do ?

[dormouse]

This is a question I asked in the thread about the upcoming "dating seminar" episode of the Duggars, but I thought it could become a thread in itself.

Let's say a fundie girl gets married. And her new husband, out of necessity or not, wants her to go to work or attend college. What would she do? Would she go because she has to be submissive?

I know they would probably "pray about it" and "become more Godly and sweet" until their husband has "a change of heart", but what if he doesn't?

[xDreamerx]

I think she would have to do it. I think the male headship thing overrides all other rules. Unless he is doing something sinful, which I assume means abusive but there are groups who council women to be more submissive even in those cases so who knows.

[doggie]

I remember some fundy wife writing in to one of the fruitcakes about that. She was told to suck it up and do it.

[mythoughtis]

In their philosophy, the wife is supposed to follow the husband... even when she doesn't agree. that is why fundie daughters who get married and then the hubby becomes non-fundie, but still Christian, do not get shunned by their families. They are just obeying their husbands. Now, the husbands will get shunned by their own fundie parents because they are disobeying Daddy.

[Petals]

One of the girls from Maidens of Worth, Anna, didn't want to go to college (she was following the Botkins very closely), but she went anyway because her father wanted her to. Here's a link to her post on that decision process:

maidensofworth.org/2008/04/plans-after-high-school.html

But then she left after a year:

maidensofworth.org/2009/04/going-home.html

I think that in most fundie households, the authority of the men is absolute. In fundie-lite circles, women are supposed to be submissive unless their husband is commanding them to do something ungodly; but in strict fundamentalist circles, it seems like women are supposed to be submissive no matter what. According to Debi Pearl, acting submissive will lead your husband/father to make godly decisions, and if you wait for your husband/father to be godly to act submissive, you'll never get there. Serving your father/husband is serving God, and the woman's only responsibility is to do what he says. Talk about learned helplessness.

[Cassandra]

One of the girls from Maidens of Worth, Anna, didn't want to go to college (she was following the Botkins very closely), but she went anyway because her father wanted her to. Here's a link to her post on that decision process:

A patriarch insisting their woman-child daughter go to college!? :o

[Petals]

A patriarch insisting their woman-child daughter go to college!? :o

Haha, I think that Anna was a good deal more conservative than her parents. She appears to have discovered the super-fundies, like the Botkins, online, and then swallowed it hook, line and sinker. I get the idea that she became less so as the years passed, though.

[Spartan89]

Haha, I think that Anna was a good deal more conservative than her parents. She appears to have discovered the super-fundies, like the Botkins, online, and then swallowed it hook, line and sinker. I get the idea that she became less so as the years passed, though.

I agree, and can I just say that I really, really miss Maidens of Worth? Anna was one of my gateway fundies. There was so much to cringe at on that blog :doh:

[YPestis]

In the very conservative households, they believe female submission paramount amongst all else. If the husband wanted to wife to go to college, get a job, send the kids to public school etc, I've heard pastors encourage wife to "pray" for God to 'change his heart' but to obey him. Of course, people like Steve Maxwell would probably say this can be avoided by being careful about whom you court.....'cause you know, people are immutable and will never change their beliefs once they reach adulthood, just look at the Maxwells...oh wait.

[Chrystal-J]

When I was in the Jehovah Witness', you were supposed to follow what-ever your husband said UNLESS it contradicted the Watch Tower Society. Then you were encouraged to disobey your husband and do what the JW leaders told you. So, in that cult, you were told to follow your husband as long as he was a JW in "good standing" with the group. If your husband quit the JWs, you couldn't divorce him. But you were expected to give him the silent treatment until he came to his senses and re-joined the cult.

[Deleted05]

It's probably the woman's fault. If she was more submissive/ran the home better/was more happy to see her husband when he came home he wouldn't feel the need to ship her off to some court of Satan.

[GenerationCedarchip]

I haven't seen this on the blogs, but in real life, most of the fundies I know in non-ATI circles don't get involved with the college stuff too much because it's still pretty common for women to at least get an associate's or bachelor's degree - especially if it's a degree in nursing, child development, education or anything else that could conceivably help with the quiver filling and homeschooling.

On work, though, it's a different story. If a man told his wife to get a job, she'd be expected to submit. However, you better believe that the pastor and the men in church leadership would be all over that husband like white on rice. If he didn't change his mind, he'd lose face in the church for being a "bad provider" and his wife would be seen as an object of pity.

[bananacat]

If you asked that question of a fundie you would be accused of not having faith. Surely if you just had faith in God, he would make sure your husband wouldn't act that way. So you need to pray harder or else you deserve whatever you get.

But in reality, of the most infamous fundie families, it is usually the wife that convinces the husband to follow that lifestyle. I know that Vyckie from NLQ took the lead and convinced her husband to go along with QF. I think Kelly Bates is the one who brought up the idea with Gil, and Jim Bob claimed in one early special that he always leaves the decision to have more kids up to Michelle. Now, I'm not sure that I believe that he would support her if she chose to have no more kids, but I think she wanted all of them for her own sake, because she's a child collector. So I think a woman in this position would simply quit her job regardless of what her husband wants.

[Extricated]

She would sign up for a correspondance course or start a home business and only do the minimum amount of work required. He gets tired of the fight and the whining that she's trying and gives in. They are very good at finding ways to submit and still get their way. I laugh at the blogs that say "He wanted X and, even though I didn't want to, I submitted. It didn't work out and he decided to try my way instead. God has blessed his decision in amazing ways."

[Cassandra]

She would sign up for a correspondance course or start a home business and only do the minimum amount of work required. He gets tired of the fight and the whining that she's trying and gives in. They are very good at finding ways to submit and still get their way. I laugh at the blogs that say "He wanted X and, even though I didn't want to, I submitted. It didn't work out and he decided to try my way instead. God has blessed his decision in amazing ways."

Haha. Which always translates to "I made sure his way didn't work out passive aggressively and then I talked him into thinking my way was his decision."

I agree that most of these women are the ones who are really in control.

[demgirl]

I think what I find most shocking about the uber-fundies is that submission to your husband is literally put above submission to God. If you try to back them into a corner, they will deny it, but it comes out in a million other ways that they truly believe this. It is the single most unbiblical thing I can think of any Christian religous group espousing.

[Guest Anonymous]

I remember some fundy wife writing in to one of the fruitcakes about that. She was told to suck it up and do it.

I would enroll and get matriculated, quick, before he could change his mind!

[luckystone]

One of the girls from Maidens of Worth, Anna, didn't want to go to college (she was following the Botkins very closely), but she went anyway because her father wanted her to. Here's a link to her post on that decision process:

maidensofworth.org/2008/04/plans-after-high-school.html

But then she left after a year:

maidensofworth.org/2009/04/going-home.html

I think that in most fundie households, the authority of the men is absolute. In fundie-lite circles, women are supposed to be submissive unless their husband is commanding them to do something ungodly; but in strict fundamentalist circles, it seems like women are supposed to be submissive no matter what. According to Debi Pearl, acting submissive will lead your husband/father to make godly decisions, and if you wait for your husband/father to be godly to act submissive, you'll never get there. Serving your father/husband is serving God, and the woman's only responsibility is to do what he says. Talk about learned helplessness.

I know I'm bumping an old thread, but the rules said not to start something new that had already been talked about...

I'm really interested by this. Maidens of Worth was my first fundie blog experience! I was sad it closed. I didn't realise the girl had been in conflict with her parents about college - I thought they were keeping her home! And I was surprised and angry when she made the post about her father being an epidemiologist (I'd rudely assumed they were all uneducated!) yet he wasn't letting his daughters to to college. How funny I got it the other way around and she wanted to screw up her life by herself!

Does anyone know if she finished college? I'm sure the other girl, Miriam, went off to college, and posted some advice pages, whereas Anna was still at home.

Edit: I just found out Anna's sister is an engineer! And in an inter-racial marriage. And wears trousers. And worked even after marriage. notherown.blogspot.com

It's like...normal :shock: I think I've confused myself.

[holysnark]

As far as I know a wife would do whatever her husband wanted unless it contradicted the bible. I know of a blogger who thinks women ONLY belong in the home, and should not have work outside the home, because the bible says so. I assume then if her husband told her to get go to college/get a job, it would be acceptable to not sumbit.

[Soldier of the One]

I second the thoughts of other posters who suggest that in some (or many) instances, it's the woman who seems to be in control. I think fundiedom just creates a very weird dynamic between the spouses, probably with a fair bit of passive-aggressive going on ('I will pray for you'). I think many women 'buy' into the 'romance' of patriarchy and it flatters (naive) men ego's just enough to go along with it.

What is interesting is to see how the next generation is raised and how they inculcate those values.

[Soldier of the One]

I second the thoughts of other posters who suggest that in some (or many) instances, it's the woman who seems to be in control. I think fundiedom just creates a very weird dynamic between the spouses, probably with a fair bit of passive-aggressive going on ('I will pray for you'). I think many women 'buy' into the 'romance' of patriarchy and it flatters (naive) men ego's just enough to go along with it.

What is interesting is to see how the next generation is raised and how they inculcate those values.

[dawbs]

Edit: I just found out Anna's sister is an engineer! And in an inter-racial marriage. And wears trousers. And worked even after marriage. notherown.blogspot.com

It's like...normal :shock: I think I've confused myself.

But it's ONLY a bad inter-racial marriage if he's African American...all of the rest of the races are variation on white.

:puke

(yes, I have heard that argued. Of course, in the same conversation, black man from Africa was OK, an African American was not)

[Mattie Chatham]

Oh wow. I found Anna's current blog, and found this... thekingscourts.blogspot.com/2012/04/dads-and-daughters-dancing.html

Squicked out. Big time.

[fluttershies]

Iirc, Lina's parents (who by all accounts are mainstream conservative Christians) wanted her to go to college. I think she ended up doing some kind of online herbalism course. Of course, she would have rather just spent her time being a ~godly SAHM~ aka sitting at home pondering Yahsome thoughts and not much else.

[JMarie]

I really hope Meredith gets to attend college at some point in her life. Her husband can't really justify women not going to college when half of his classmates are female, as well as a good number of his professors (probably).