Christian MRA apologist-women can't help sleeping with alpha

[lilah]

So Sunshine Mary is my new fundie obession. She is a homeschooling catholic who is deep into the MRA/traditional marriage scene. In fact I'd say her fundamentalism is more about Men's rights than Jesus. Christianity/Catholicism seems to be how she justifies her world view

 

One of her most recent posts was that she believes if a woman comes into contact with an alpha male (ie a guy well versed in the psychological mind games bullshit perpetuated by the pick up artist community) then their panties will drop quick. In fact it's not even their fault that they have no self control or sexual agency around alpha males but isntead should be sequested from society unless they around husbands or fathers to help protect them.

 

 

 

Quote

I suspect that the truth is that around a powerful, dominant masculine presence the part of a woman’s brain which is responsible for logic and reason simply shuts down. Pure biological instinct takes over, leaving the three main drives of a woman: 1) Sex with alpha males, 2) protection, and 3) provision. At this point she starts seeking to fulfill impulse #1, sex with an alpha male. No rational thought is involved. Just pure lust.

 

 

Quote

…Many societies hid away their young women, only allowing them out of the family home when they became married. Feminists decry this as oppression and tyranny, but the truth is that women are vulnerable to the powers of an Alpha.

 

Jesus taught his disciples to remove those things which bring them to temptation. Unfortunately for women, they themselves are the tempting object. Hence, to avoid sexual sins they must avoid situations where they could be subject to the irresistible power of a dominant masculine frame. In our modern world, that is nigh-well impossible.

 

So, whose fault is it when women sleep around if it isn’t their own fault? Women experience a sharp increase in sex drive during the days surrounding ovulation, provided they are not using hormone birth control. If she’s married, no problem; her husband gets to be the beneficiary of her increased interest in sexual activity. If she isn’t married and there is a relatively dominant male in the vicinity, just how much ability and responsibility does she have to regulate her own behavior?

 

It seems pretty pro-rape culture to believe women have no control over their sexuality and men will either exploit it or need to protect it.

 

thewomanandthedragon.wordpress.com/2013/02/05/on-slutty-behavior-and-moral-agency/

[Dysfundamental]

There are no such things as "alpha males". The terminology comes from Rudolph Schenkel's now debunked studies of wolves; turns out that in the wild, wolves hunt in families (male and female mated couples and all their unmated progeny) not in packs. The wolves Schenkel was studying were in captivity, and their family bonds were disrupted, so all the wolves deferred to the one intact mated pair.

Primate-wise, gorillas come closest to the male dominance-and-harem model people are usually blathering about with "alpha" stuff, but we're not all that closely related to gorillas, and one of the other key features of gorilla social organizations is infanticide, so I wouldn't think fundies would want to go there.

Anyway, isn't this all skating on the thin ice of evolution? I thought God created us separately from the animals and gave us dominion over them and wevs.

[lilith]

This woman........

I'd love to see this "alpha male" awesome catch of a husband of hers. I suspect that I would be extremely unimpressed. And I am a sexually submissive woman who is very attracted to confident sexually dominant men. But truly confident, charismatic men who have the ability to be the dominant partner in a relationship, as opposed to an abusive fuckwit, aren't trying to disenfranchise and disempower half the human population based on gender, and they don't need a fucking whiny Men's Rights Movement to complain about why women aren't giving them what they desire - cause the sort of women who like that sort of thing are giving it to them, happily and willingly and without sacrificing their own self worth.

[musicalbookworm]

Yeah, she's nuts! I for one am glad that I am repulsive to alphas being over 25 and not model thin. I just don't understand how anyone can actually think this way.

[crassy]

Well damn. I guess that is why I can't get from the dairy aisle to the bakery in the supermarket without fucking at least 15 men.

[YPestis]

Ok, who are alphas and how do women identify them? We don't live in hunter-gatherer societies anymore. By what do we measure a man's alpha status? His money? Car? Abs? I'm honestly curious.

I assume most male MRA think of themselves as alpha males (do any admit to being a beta male?). I figure most of these MRA females also believe they married an alpha male, right? I mean, most people want to put themselves in choice roles in their fantasies, right?

[CynicMom]

I've read a lot of the pick-up-artist books out of sheer curiosity. Believe it or not, I found much of their writings not to be inherently sexist. For example, want to pick up a woman at a bar and get her to have sex with you? These books recommend:

• 0. Getting in good shape
  1. Being a fascinating conversationalist
  2. Making her and her friends laugh
  3. Inviting her to your place in a smooth and natural way
  4. Getting her comfortable before you make a move (they have a checklist for this)
  5. Not getting upset if she says no at any time

Which really isn't bad advice and I can see it working for any sex/gender combination. The PUA people add a layer of misogynistic shit over this though.

My understanding of the reason it works is that people are more willing to have one-night-stands with people of higher status. The PUA people go into great detail about how to fake higher status. Status here being defined as social class and/or the ability to spend your time doing interesting things of your own choosing. The kicker is that most of them, it seems, don't ultimately want one-night-stands they want girlfriends. It's really hard for them to turn off the I'm-faking-that-I'm-cooler-than-you and a lot of the manipulative extra shit that goes along with the checklist above.

Anyone else have a weird fascination with the PUA community? Not like they'd ever be coming on to me! :)

[Emme]

Isn't there some vampire show, Vampire Diaries that dealt with alpha vamps or something? That's all I can think about, is her swooning over some vamp. Also, many alpha dudes are intimidated by me. I'm smart, self-sufficient, and have no problem disagreeing with guys. They get confused and a little stressed out that I call them out if I disagree. I'm totes cool with that.

[debrand]

I've read a lot of the pick-up-artist books out of sheer curiosity. Believe it or not, I found much of their writings not to be inherently sexist. For example, want to pick up a woman at a bar and get her to have sex with you? These books recommend:

• 0. Getting in good shape
  1. Being a fascinating conversationalist
  2. Making her and her friends laugh
  3. Inviting her to your place in a smooth and natural way
  4. Getting her comfortable before you make a move (they have a checklist for this)
  5. Not getting upset if she says no at any time

Which really isn't bad advice and I can see it working for any sex/gender combination. The PUA people add a layer of misogynistic shit over this though.

My understanding of the reason it works is that people are more willing to have one-night-stands with people of higher status. The PUA people go into great detail about how to fake higher status. Status here being defined as social class and/or the ability to spend your time doing interesting things of your own choosing. The kicker is that most of them, it seems, don't ultimately want one-night-stands they want girlfriends. It's really hard for them to turn off the I'm-faking-that-I'm-cooler-than-you and a lot of the manipulative extra shit that goes along with the checklist above.

Anyone else have a weird fascination with the PUA community? Not like they'd ever be coming on to me! :)

If you only want a superficial relationship, it works with men also. Although my mother could not remain in a long term relationship, men seemed fascinated with her. Her trick was to leave the man off balanced. Up to a point, she would flirt and then she'd be friendly but noncommittal. She told us not to compliment men too much and to only date slightly under-confident people because they were more easily controlled. Her advice was to treat lovers with a mild disregard.

This advice works in the short term. Men loved her. However, she ended up divorced multiple times and all her relationships ended quickly. She hated most women and didn't have many female friends.

I never wanted to control or manipulate another person. My husband and I are equals.

[debrand]

Ok, who are alphas and how do women identify them? We don't live in hunter-gatherer societies anymore. By what do we measure a man's alpha status? His money? Car? Abs? I'm honestly curious.

I assume most male MRA think of themselves as alpha males (do any admit to being a beta male?). I figure most of these MRA females also believe they married an alpha male, right? I mean, most people want to put themselves in choice roles in their fantasies, right?

I wondered this also. What is an alpha male? What are their traits? How do they explain the appeal of artistic types to some women?

Because I just recently read an article on the drug cartel, Los Zetas, I keep picturing criminals as alpha males and I don't believe that any confident, normal woman would naturally be attracted to such a man. I'm sure that there are noncriminal examples of alpha males though.

[Seven Severn]

Well damn. I guess that is why I can't get from the dairy aisle to the bakery in the supermarket without fucking at least 15 men.

15? Amateur. :snooty:

[debrand]

I just started reading some of the comments. Is it my imagination or are they calling for segregation of the sexes? Christian fundamentalism is beginning to look more and more like the Muslim extremism.

Female sexuality really frightens the hell out of these people

okrahead says:

February 5, 2013 at 9:12 am

Fault? I thought we were a no-fault society…. At any rate, let me address a slightly different aspect of the problem. Whether or not the woman is able to resist the temptation, I will agree that under the circumstances described here it would be extremely difficult to do so. Yet what can be done?

The woman’s husband can simply forbid her from interacting with men he knows to be a temptation to her, or, more generally, men he suspects might try to take advantage of her. Yet if and when her husband does this, what is the response from the churchians? ABUSE! HE IS ABUSING HER! All she wants is a perfectly innocent Platonic friendship with this handsome young man, and her jealous, controlling husband is abusing her by forbidding it! How dare he! She needs to get an attorney ASAP!

Mind you, this is the response you will receive FROM THE CHURCH, so you can imagine how the courts and secular society will react. Churchians view mate-guarding by men as abuse, and will actively white-knight and rally to the woman who is so “abused†by her husband. Of course, many of those “white knights†will themselves be pseudo-alphas who are willing to sample the fruits of another man’s garden, but that is a entire post on its own.

Even if the husband or wife knows that their spouse is going to have an affair, they can't force them to not contact the other person. The offended spouse can leave, get angry, or force the other person to leave but you can't control another person's actions.

[debrand]

I have crazy ovaries. Curiosity should put this on a shirt for us to buy

sunshinemary says:

February 5, 2013 at 9:36 am

Noah wrote:

Its hard to cheat on your husband when you are never in private around another man, consequently this is why it is a sin to even put oneself in a situation where you might fall

Exactly. This is why I have recommended in the past that husbands consider not having their wives work outside the home if there is any possiblity to avoid it; male bosses are prime cheating partners.

But cheating is less common than pre-marital promiscuity. Even Christian girls are wandering around with crazed ovaries and no protection by a father or husband against her own inclination to give herself to marauding alphas.

Young women do not have a realistic understanding of how little self-control they will be able to exert under the sway of a dominant man. They do not avoid these situations because it feels oh-so-delightful to talk and flirt with a charming, dominant alpha male, and they do not admit their biologically-based lack of self-control.

[Talitha Cumi]

Jeez, these alphas sound dangerous. I think all these women need protection from them. Let's lock up the alphas so no woman will fall to their lustful ways!

[Buzzard]

I've read a lot of the pick-up-artist books out of sheer curiosity. Believe it or not, I found much of their writings not to be inherently sexist. For example, want to pick up a woman at a bar and get her to have sex with you? These books recommend:

• 0. Getting in good shape
  1. Being a fascinating conversationalist
  2. Making her and her friends laugh
  3. Inviting her to your place in a smooth and natural way
  4. Getting her comfortable before you make a move (they have a checklist for this)
  5. Not getting upset if she says no at any time

Which really isn't bad advice and I can see it working for any sex/gender combination. The PUA people add a layer of misogynistic shit over this though.

My understanding of the reason it works is that people are more willing to have one-night-stands with people of higher status. The PUA people go into great detail about how to fake higher status. Status here being defined as social class and/or the ability to spend your time doing interesting things of your own choosing. The kicker is that most of them, it seems, don't ultimately want one-night-stands they want girlfriends. It's really hard for them to turn off the I'm-faking-that-I'm-cooler-than-you and a lot of the manipulative extra shit that goes along with the checklist above.

Anyone else have a weird fascination with the PUA community? Not like they'd ever be coming on to me! :)

Soooo by her definition is Josh Duggar an "alpha male?" How about "David Waller?" We all know the PP would be since he pisseth against the wall.

[debrand]

Joseph of Jackson is a scary fuck. :o

T says:

February 5, 2013 at 10:53 am

@ Janet Jackson – So exactly which parts of the Bible do you agree with? Which parts do you not agree with?

I agree with all of it. However I would still treat a man who raped someone much more severely than I would a man who stole a goat, and I would also treat a man who refused to share money as an abuser.

Joseph of Jackson says:

February 5, 2013 at 10:57 am

@Mr. T

“I agree with all of it. However I wouldâ€

So you agree that in God’s mind, rape is a property crime, but you also believe that it should not be treated as a property crime?

T says:

February 5, 2013 at 11:04 am

@ Janet Jackson – I have no idea whether or not rape is a property crime in God’s mind. I know that it is written that way in the Bible. I do however know that if someone is raped that they should not expect it to be treated with the same seriousness as a stolen bike by the police. Do you think that rape should be treated as a property crime? If so we can agree to disagree and return the original subject of the blog post.

J

oseph of Jackson says:

February 5, 2013 at 11:12 am

@Mr. T

“I have no idea whether or not rape is a property crime in God’s mind. I know that it is written that way in the Bible. I do however know that if someone is raped that they should not expect it to be treated with the same seriousness as a stolen bike by the police. Do you think that rape should be treated as a property crime? If so we can agree to disagree and return the original subject of the blog post.â€

My point, plain and simple for you, is that you think you know better than God. And this plays in perfectly with what SSM wrote above. Women, especially Christian snowflakes such as yourself, think they are better than other women. That they are due special consideration. In your case, God’s ways aren’t even good enough. You require more. Women, like yourself, aren’t capable of acting like trustworthy adults. God in fact believes that rape is a crime of theft. If it’s good enough for Jesus, then it’s good enough for me. The fact that you don’t “feel†like this is right is you showing you ignorance and, in some ways, mirroring Eve in that you want to be like God (knowing what’s good and what’s evil). I find you offensive in every way that a person can be offensive. You “claim†to be Christian, but show that you don’t even take God’s Word seriously. It isn’t good enough for a special snowflake like yourself.

So you can see how I would laugh when a woman like you claims that women are fully in control of themselves and should be treated as adults. The Bible doesn’t say it, you claim to believe the Bible, just not the parts you disagree with.

[debrand]

Joseph of Jackson says:

February 5, 2013 at 11:27 am

@Mr. T

“the Bible does treat women as adultsâ€

She was completely under the control of her father or husband her entire life. She was treated as property and this is actually found in the 10 commandments.

Exo 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.

That’s God speaking with his own voice to all the nation of Israel. Women are property the same way a house is according to God’s own words. She is property according to the Bible, not a free person able to do what they want. How do you “feel†about that passage?

[Anxious Girl]

All women have a sex drive when they're on their periods? (Then explain why I'm not sexually aroused when I have my periods.) :shock: I'm not scientifically smart, but even I know she's doing science wrong. I wonder if Sunshine Mary is our sunshine? :think:

[Buzzard]

Joseph of Jackson is a scary fuck. :o

The bible also says slavery is totes kool, that we should stone people for cutting their hair and violating the sabbath, that most of the food we eat today is "unclean"... so if Mr. Jackson "agrees with all of it." I expect him to be a cotton wearing, long hair, bearded, vegan or atleast someone that raises and slaughters his own animals - who does nothing on the sabbath. If not, shut the fuck up.

[debrand]

The bible also says slavery is totes kool, that we should stone people for cutting their hair and violating the sabbath, that most of the food we eat today is "unclean"... so if Mr. Jackson "agrees with all of it." I expect him to be a cotton wearing, long hair, bearded, vegan or atleast someone that raises and slaughters his own animals - who does nothing on the sabbath. If not, shut the fuck up.

Joseph of Jackson's debate with T- and the fact that no one is calling him on his statements- is pretty frightening. Does that mean that he thinks that raping a war captive is a good way to find a bride?

[Phoebe]

The comments are just heaping piles of fail all the way around. :doh: Seriously I bet Joseph of Jackson has some seriously questionable incidents with women in his past -- he's setting off all sorts of predator alarm bells in my head...anyone else think this too?

[dawbs]

15? Amateur. :snooty:

37! My girlfriend sucked 37 dicks!

[debrand]

The comments are just heaping piles of fail all the way around. :doh: Seriously I bet Joseph of Jackson has some seriously questionable incidents with women in his past -- he's setting off all sorts of predator alarm bells in my head...anyone else think this too?

Yes. I don't want to take over the thread with posts of his comments but the man is scary. I wouldn't be surprised to discover that he has a history of abusing women.

What is sad is that only T seems to be calling him out on his beliefs. Everyone else appears to agree with him and that includes the women posting on that site, :cry:

[jenny_islander]

There are no such things as "alpha males". The terminology comes from Rudolph Schenkel's now debunked studies of wolves; turns out that in the wild, wolves hunt in families (male and female mated couples and all their unmated progeny) not in packs. The wolves Schenkel was studying were in captivity, and their family bonds were disrupted, so all the wolves deferred to the one intact mated pair.

Primate-wise, gorillas come closest to the male dominance-and-harem model people are usually blathering about with "alpha" stuff, but we're not all that closely related to gorillas, and one of the other key features of gorilla social organizations is infanticide, so I wouldn't think fundies would want to go there.

Anyway, isn't this all skating on the thin ice of evolution? I thought God created us separately from the animals and gave us dominion over them and wevs.

Yes, this! For people who hate and fear "Godless" science, fundamentalists sure use a lot of it. There's the "alpha male" nonsense, and then there's the wee little fact that a lot of "child training" systems are just Skinnerian operant conditioning with a Jesus fish glued on. But B.F. Skinner was a psychologist. An atheist psychologist. What was that about avoiding all appearance of evil--?

[Three and Done]

I made the mistake of visiting the site, and found this post on "Advice for a former slut": thewomanandthedragon.wordpress.com/2013/01/17/advice-for-a-former-slut-married-to-a-beta-provider-to-whom-she-is-not-sexually-attracted/

Now I am SO.ANGRY. that I want to break things! :angry-cussingwhite: :angry-teeth:

Regarding women who were not virgins at marriage: "...you are a whore and you deserve to be dragged to the city gates, stoned to death, and cast into hell. But Jesus Christ has paid the sin debt that you owe, and now that you are in Him, you are no longer condemned to be cast into hell. Your man was willing to take you into his home and give you his name. You are blessed to have him and you will now set aside your lusting after personal happiness and instead seek to obey the Lord by pleasing your husband."

I believe this creature may even outdo The (Non)Thinking Housewife in hatefulness.