Another QF family

[Witsec7]

but just express disappointment and tell him that his potty urine needs to go in the potty toilet.

I fixed that for ya.

[mnb357]

I win the slacker parent spotty training award. Why? I never trained my kids. My husband housebroke our eldest at the same time as our Labrador. Labrador would only lift his leg outside after hubby whizzed a stream in the weeds first. Dog would run over to mark happily. Pretty soon our little guy joined in. For a while, our guy would only go outside. Eventually, the weather turned, and he preferred a heated bathroom. For our girl, I would just leave the bathroom door open when I would go. Our youngest guy wore diapers until age 4, when he informed us he no longer chose to wear them. Granted, I am a stay at home mom with retired husband, so daycare /preschool was not an issue. But still...ultimately the child decides for himself when he is ready. And no, this is not a new idea....I got it from an older, wiser person, my mother who raised six of us this way back in the sixties. She and Dad simply kept the door open when they went. It was an unintentional benefit....she used to say nothing invades your privacy with six kids faster than a closed door! Appropos of nothing, she also called Dobson a blowhard.

[Witsec7]

I win the slacker parent spotty training award. Why? I never trained my kids. My husband housebroke our eldest at the same time as our Labrador. Labrador would only lift his leg outside after hubby whizzed a stream in the weeds first. Dog would run over to mark happily. Pretty soon our little guy joined in. For a while, our guy would only go outside. Eventually, the weather turned, and he preferred a heated bathroom. For our girl, I would just leave the bathroom door open when I would go. Our youngest guy wore diapers until age 4, when he informed us he no longer chose to wear them. Granted, I am a stay at home mom with retired husband, so daycare /preschool was not an issue. But still...ultimately the child decides for himself when he is ready. And no, this is not a new idea....I got it from an older, wiser person, my mother who raised six of us this way back in the sixties. She and Dad simply kept the door open when they went. It was an unintentional benefit....she used to say nothing invades your privacy with six kids faster than a closed door! Appropos of nothing, she also called Dobson a blowhard.

Eh my DD was trained to use a litter box in our bus at a Grateful Dead concert. She wanted tie dyed panties like the big girls and I said she could have them if she used the box. I always kept the box for myself for when the porta potties got positively medieval by day two.

[mnb357]

Eh my DD was trained to use a litter box in our bus at a Grateful Dead concert. She e one of tie dyed panties like the big girls and I said she could have them if she used the box. I always kept the box for myself for when the porta potties got positively medieval by day two.

I would imagine that a Dead concert might be one time I could possibly experience "penis envy."

[AmyP]

I definately overhydrate during potty training, especially during the phase where I am trying to get the toddler to pee in there the first time. Can't frequently reward them if they don't go frequently.

[pixydust]

I saw that potty training post, and I thought it sounded very unlikely to work. I wouldnt count it as being fully potty trained until your child rarely has accidents. Her five and six year old are still not dry through the night, and one of her other kids wore pull ups at night at age 7, and she says that accidents are normal for days after this potty training day, so its not really a day. I wouldnt officially count potty training being over til the child is completely dry in the day and mostly at night (the odd accident is common in small children).

I really did not need to see pictures of her kid on the toilet.

Um, just an FYI you can't train kids to stay dry at night. All of my kids are deep sleepers, and my 2 oldest wet the bed until 6, my youngest is almost 5 and still wets the bed. That's why they make underjams and goodnights, some kids just don't wake up when they need to go!

[ElphabaGalinda]

Um, just an FYI you can't train kids to stay dry at night. All of my kids are deep sleepers, and my 2 oldest wet the bed until 6, my youngest is almost 5 and still wets the bed. That's why they make underjams and goodnights, some kids just don't wake up when they need to go!

I wet the bed at night until 12 everynight. The only reason I stoped was this device that made a loud beeping noise everytime I wet the bed. I needed it for about a month until I could be dry without it. So there are things that can be done, but the vast majority of kids just grow out of it (though as I was 12 I don't think I was growing out of it), but there's no traditional potty training technique you can use to train kids to stay dry at night...you can't conciously decide to do anything while you're asleep after all. Either your body wakes you up or it doesn't.

[PennySycamore]

I win the slacker parent spotty training award. Why? I never trained my kids. My husband housebroke our eldest at the same time as our Labrador. Labrador would only lift his leg outside after hubby whizzed a stream in the weeds first. Dog would run over to mark happily. Pretty soon our little guy joined in. For a while, our guy would only go outside. Eventually, the weather turned, and he preferred a heated bathroom. For our girl, I would just leave the bathroom door open when I would go. Our youngest guy wore diapers until age 4, when he informed us he no longer chose to wear them. Granted, I am a stay at home mom with retired husband, so daycare /preschool was not an issue. But still...ultimately the child decides for himself when he is ready. And no, this is not a new idea....I got it from an older, wiser person, my mother who raised six of us this way back in the sixties. She and Dad simply kept the door open when they went. It was an unintentional benefit....she used to say nothing invades your privacy with six kids faster than a closed door! Appropos of nothing, she also called Dobson a blowhard.

That's pretty much what I did. I knew my girls would start going to the bathroom in their own time just like they'd wean at their own pace. One daughter decided to give up diapers just in time for a family vacation. My youngest did need the nudge of Lion King big girl panties. She did not want to get Simba and Nala wet. After she started wearing big girls panties all the time, she rarely had an accident.

[Jezebel]

I wet the bed at night until 12 everynight. The only reason I stoped was this device that made a loud beeping noise everytime I wet the bed. I needed it for about a month until I could be dry without it. So there are things that can be done, but the vast majority of kids just grow out of it (though as I was 12 I don't think I was growing out of it), but there's no traditional potty training technique you can use to train kids to stay dry at night...you can't conciously decide to do anything while you're asleep after all. Either your body wakes you up or it doesn't.

I had insomnia as a kid--I just couldn't get to sleep. But when I did finally sleep? I was OUT. Like a light. Every morning, my mom had a hell of a time waking me up and getting me out of bed because I slept like the dead.

So I was a frequent bed-wetter until I was maybe 11 or 12. My need to pee wasn't enough to wake me up, and sometimes a cold, wet bed wasn't enough, either. From about the age of seven if I woke up after wetting the bed I would just get up, fetch clean bedding from the linen closet, and re-make my bed before going back to sleep, rather than bother my mom with it. I did it at least once a week until I was maybe 9 or 10.

I'm not even sure what stopped it, but I think I was 12 when I one day realized that I hadn't wet the bed in months. I never did again (okay, except when I was passed-out druuuunk, but even then, rarely). I was waking up when I really needed to pee, and I think I had simply gained better bladder control, period.

And I can't recall where I heard it or who said it, but I do remember a doctor saying that many bed-wetting kids have bladders that simply take longer to develop--physiologically, they just aren't able to hold very much, so they don't get strong enough signals to wake up before they pee. And I do recall him saying that around puberty is when it finally resolves itself for most kids and they stop bed-wetting for good. I wish I could remember the source, but I do remember how relieved (no pun intended) I felt hearing that, even as an adult.

[Coconut Flan]

There is also a hormone that the body produces that concentrates urine at night. Most kids won't stay dry at night until that kicks in.

[clarinetpower]

She apparently thinks sugar is a drug and is Satanic:

In other words, "I can't control what I shove down my gullet so I'll pretend I'm addicted."

I doubt very much this lady had dealt with real addiction. I've yet to hear of someone selling family heirlooms because they needed a sugar fix, neglecting their kids because they were too busy eating Snickers bars, or snapping and beating their kids while they were high.

Um, actually, yes. Ever heard of Overeater's Anonymous? Food can be addicting (and sugar can be your trigger), just like booze, drugs, sex, gambling, hoarding, etc. You may not beat people after a bowl of ice cream, but addictive behaviors can be damaging to all who are involved with an addict. She may be ultra-sappy in her description, but she does have a point.

[Witsec7]

that one entire package of Oreo cookies is about equal to two low-grade alcoholic drinks

That is exactly why I prefer martini's to Oreos.

[ilovetchotchkes]

That is exactly why I prefer martini's to Oreos.

You could always have a chocolate martini.... Dammit, now I want a chocolate martini and all we have in the house is shiraz...

[Coconut Flan]

I don't like martininis, but a chocolate one definitely has potential.

[fundiefan]

Ugh, it just reads to me like "we don't have the time or money for activities, so let's find some biblical excuse to deny them to our kids" drives me insane- especially since I was a child that was never allowed to do activities for money reasons :(

I've figured that's the reasoning all along. When you have more kids than you can handle you can't possibly get them all the places they need to be to participate in something that actually interests them. And, it's most likely pretty damn expensive to have 6, 8, 10 kids and more in sports and activities. So, instead of saying you can't afford for your kids to do something (because that would mean your god isn't really planning too well in giving you kids you can't pay for) you create some religious mandate that says it is unbiblical/sinning for kids to do something outside the family that they may actually enjoy and/or be good at.

No sports for you, Johnny, or are you Joey? Whichever one you are it doesn't matter. No sports because god (our family budget) says so!

[charizbarb]

I had insomnia as a kid--I just couldn't get to sleep. But when I did finally sleep? I was OUT. Like a light. Every morning, my mom had a hell of a time waking me up and getting me out of bed because I slept like the dead.

So I was a frequent bed-wetter until I was maybe 11 or 12. My need to pee wasn't enough to wake me up, and sometimes a cold, wet bed wasn't enough, either. From about the age of seven if I woke up after wetting the bed I would just get up, fetch clean bedding from the linen closet, and re-make my bed before going back to sleep, rather than bother my mom with it. I did it at least once a week until I was maybe 9 or 10.

I'm not even sure what stopped it, but I think I was 12 when I one day realized that I hadn't wet the bed in months. I never did again (okay, except when I was passed-out druuuunk, but even then, rarely). I was waking up when I really needed to pee, and I think I had simply gained better bladder control, period.

And I can't recall where I heard it or who said it, but I do remember a doctor saying that many bed-wetting kids have bladders that simply take longer to develop--physiologically, they just aren't able to hold very much, so they don't get strong enough signals to wake up before they pee. And I do recall him saying that around puberty is when it finally resolves itself for most kids and they stop bed-wetting for good. I wish I could remember the source, but I do remember how relieved (no pun intended) I felt hearing that, even as an adult.

I wet the bed until 15ish - turns out it was a pelvic floor issue in addition to me being a super deep sleeper. So yeah, there can be all kinds of reasons.

[chaotic life]

Yes, lots of large families will come up with HUGE philosophical excuses for why kids cannot have activities.

We've been on minimal activities only for the last year while our son was dying. There just wasn't enough of ME. Most fundie moms have always been shocked with our commitment to activities. I cannot do a bunch for each child, but I have always tried to do scouting and at least one activity per child.

I missed the sign-ups for rec league soccer for the littles for this fall. The sign-up deadline was two days after my son died. However, I have discovered that even for a family our size, putting them in school is an EASY way to give them outside activities. My 11 year old who was most upset I missed soccer--they have it at the middle school, as well as track in the spring.

Most activities will provide discounts for lots of kids. By the time I had five signed up for soccer one year, the last child was free and they all cost me $200 flat. It wasn't the cost of the registration, not the cleats, not the balls and not even the skin guards. The BIGGEST challenge to giving that many kids activities is the TIME.

Yet, I don't understand the idea of refusing activities to kids. They didn't ask to be born into a large family. I kinda always figured they deserved to be allowed to DO activities. I did finally ask my high school this spring since he was in TWO sports to get his own rides for one of them, but he did so willingly. It really does upset me when large families don't give their children the chance to do even ONE activity. I KNOW it's hard, I really do. I've always limited the kids to one activity at a time because of that. Howeve, all of my kids have HAD activities. I have no intention of stopping that.

I do need to speak to my sons though. We've always taken the stand that we would be involved with Boy Scouts and try to change things from within. With the new approval of their discriminatory policies against gays, I'm not sure if the boys want to continue or not.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

Um, actually, yes. Ever heard of Overeater's Anonymous? Food can be addicting (and sugar can be your trigger), just like booze, drugs, sex, gambling, hoarding, etc. You may not beat people after a bowl of ice cream, but addictive behaviors can be damaging to all who are involved with an addict. She may be ultra-sappy in her description, but she does have a point.

Read the whole post. She doesn't even get into real food addiction, it's just off-the-cuff, paranoid ramblings about sugar 'addiction.' Not an ounce of real science or data about legit food addiction.

[Coconut Flan]

She sounds like a couple I know who used "addiction" to defend their lazy stopping for fast food every single day on the way home from work habit. It was shocking how they overnight were no longer addicted when he was hospitalized for CHF.

[deelaem]

A person can become addicted to any mood-altering substance or behavior. The key term there is "mood altering". Fanatical religiosity is very addictive. All she did was swap brandy for whiskey, so to speak.

[YPestis]

It's interesting how potty training is treated in different cultures. In China, they have these "split bottom" pants which is exactly what it sounds like, i.e pants with a wide opening. Growing up, no one had washing machines or disposable diapers. Parents had to wash each dirty diaper by hand and hang them to dry in a tiny apartment. My parents spoke of the stink of their tiny apartment once it filled with drying diapers, of how the urine stench would overpower anything else---and that was just one baby's diapers! Having to hang up more than one child's diapers, the smell would have been far worse.

Needless to say, allowing kids to wear diapers until ages 3,4,5 was not an option. Kids were typically semi-potty trained before age 1 through the "whistling method". Parents figure out a feeding schedule and when their kids would pee and then whistle when the kids pee. Eventually, the baby associated parents' whistling with peeing. This was a great way to save on diaper duty.

Later on, as the child becomes a toddler, they are taught to pee into a chamberpot, but if they have accidents, it's not as bad since the split bottom pants allows the excretion of material without dirtying the pants. Chinese homes don't have rugs so it was a matter of wiping the cement floors down.

Some Americans were appalled that Chinese kids potty trained at such a young age but my mother dismissed that as a "first world concern". She said if any mother had to hand wash dirty diapers and dry those smelly things in their own bedroom, they wouldn't be up in arms over early potty training. I think she has a point. Certainly, now with the introduction of disposable diapers and washing machines, split bottom pants have disappeared except from the poorest Chinese families. I was semi potty trained by age 2 with occasionally accidents and wore split bottom pants until age 4 for those periodic 'accidents". I don't think I was worse for wear. I'm just glad I don't have to hand wash dirty diapers!

[chaotic life]

Ah yes, you can still find plenty of Fundies, as well as plenty of hippies, practicing Chinese potty training practices now. They call it Elimination Communication.

I prefer my first world problem of diapers though.

[TMS]

However, I have discovered that even for a family our size, putting them in school is an EASY way to give them outside activities. My 11 year old who was most upset I missed soccer--they have it at the middle school, as well as track in the spring

Yes, school sports at public school is great! All 3 of my kids are able to be involved in track, cross country, tennis, swimming, and soccer and it's EASY because they're in public school! If we were homeschooling, we wouldn't have this option, and it would be more expensive plus a lot more driving around. At school, they just stay afterward for practices.

[OkToBeTakei]

It's interesting how potty training is treated in different cultures. In China, they have these "split bottom" pants which is exactly what it sounds like, i.e pants with a wide opening. Growing up, no one had washing machines or disposable diapers. Parents had to wash each dirty diaper by hand and hang them to dry in a tiny apartment. My parents spoke of the stink of their tiny apartment once it filled with drying diapers, of how the urine stench would overpower anything else---and that was just one baby's diapers! Having to hang up more than one child's diapers, the smell would have been far worse.

Needless to say, allowing kids to wear diapers until ages 3,4,5 was not an option. Kids were typically semi-potty trained before age 1 through the "whistling method". Parents figure out a feeding schedule and when their kids would pee and then whistle when the kids pee. Eventually, the baby associated parents' whistling with peeing. This was a great way to save on diaper duty.

Later on, as the child becomes a toddler, they are taught to pee into a chamberpot, but if they have accidents, it's not as bad since the split bottom pants allows the excretion of material without dirtying the pants. Chinese homes don't have rugs so it was a matter of wiping the cement floors down.

Some Americans were appalled that Chinese kids potty trained at such a young age but my mother dismissed that as a "first world concern". She said if any mother had to hand wash dirty diapers and dry those smelly things in their own bedroom, they wouldn't be up in arms over early potty training. I think she has a point. Certainly, now with the introduction of disposable diapers and washing machines, split bottom pants have disappeared except from the poorest Chinese families. I was semi potty trained by age 2 with occasionally accidents and wore split bottom pants until age 4 for those periodic 'accidents". I don't think I was worse for wear. I'm just glad I don't have to hand wash dirty diapers!

This was a really interesting read. Thanks for sharing.

On the extra-curricular activities. My Quiver has alas but one Arrow (Pray for me) After many years of trying various sports, activities, drama, music etc. At 9 she has 4 .

Swimming.

Violin.

Tennis.

Football.

Swimming. Monday. Wednesday. Sunday at 6 am. YES SIX AM! also at 7pm. But that is a fun session she likes. That would be me taking her at 5.30am. :(

Violin..is in school. The evil School. But she got invited to join the District Orchestra. Friday night. 6.30pm until 9.00pm. She just adores this. Last session along with the classics they did Lady Gaga.

Tennis. Her Dad works away all week. This is something he takes her to on a Saturday morning they have brunch after. Not sure which is the favourite..who cares.

Football. The only after school one. By the school. She adores it.

Forgot Bible study...no seriously forgot that. HA

I am run ragged with one child. I have friends who do this with two, three, four, et al. It is time and investment. I think some Fundies are a bit lazy. I would love not to do this some weeks. But you crack on, when your child so obviously gets something from it.

Do not get me wrong. We have tried and ditched many 'interests' But I would not withhold the opportunity. I think this is why I detest them so much at times.

[BiblebeltCath]

I've noticed that Erika Shupe has stepped up her social media use lately, with a Facebook page and Twitter account. She's also improved her writing and is using mostly stock photos on her blog. In the past they've said they will never use the blog as a money maker so I wonder what she's got planned. Maybe she's hoping for a book deal.