Another QF family

[Clementine]

Applause for chaotic life!

+1!

[chaotic life]

Sorry to go off topic, but where the hell do these people get these adopted children from?

From Liberia, of course. There were some major loopholes in the laws which allowed any jerk who wanted to set up adoptions to simply make themselves look like a business, tell the Liberian government they were a US adoption agency and get the required agency license in Liberia. My personal favorite was the Liberian whose Daddy was a good friend of Taylor. She had her little mittens in everything Liberian that would allow her to make a profit. I was told by several families that her restaurant in Monrovia was using UN food aid supplies in the kitchen which they then cooked and sold to the public. She happened to discover selling children was WAY more profitable, especially once she realized she could charge a $5K expedite fee for an "expedited adoption" which meant she paid everyone off but mostly she pocketed the "fee" she forced families to use for every child under age 2.

That shiester was actually telling highly punitive families how to fake and lie to pass a homestudy and encouraging them to use independent social workers instead of agencies that would look closer.

Basically, Nancy Campbell put out this mass "calling" for her followers with Above Rubies to adopt Liberian orphans, and they did so by the thousands. They fooled social workers by flat-out LYING about discipline tactics and now those Liberian kids end up dumped into the US fostercare system every year still, and some do indeed end up shipped back to Liberia. The country is closed now, but the impact is still ongoing.

I honestly fear more for the children who have NOT been dumped and what abuse and neglect they endure in homes that are so isolated that no one sees them or stops to realize they need help.

Rabbit trail completed....sorry!

[chaotic life]

On the food thing, I have seen some of the most appalling "tricks" by QF families struggling to feed their kids.

The most common trick is that they are SUPER controlling over food portions. I can't tell you the number of families I have seen who only feed their children portion sizings for a normal toddler (and then drop over in shock when they see how much food my very skinny but very active crew of hooligans consumes). That trick drives me BATTY. I've seen families who actually encourage and strive for what is medically failure to thrive condition in the kids because they think skinny is desirable AND it saves them tons of money that way.

Actually, the WORST family I ever saw with this was a DOCTOR's family. They darn well knew better and they were frustrated that their new adoptees were sneaking food. Hello! You're a doctor. You know better from a medical perspective AND you have no excuse for not being able to afford it. Seriously, every family member from mom and dad on down were permitted one 3oz serviing of meat and 1/4 cup of two side dishes ONLY at every meal and only one bedtime snack was permitted beyond that.

I've seen quite a few families go vegetarian or vegan under the claim it was about health, but they NEVER provided adequate protien and amino acid consumption because it was *really* about saving money.

The most bizarre though was the friend who played the Grocery Game. So, she was driving to six different stores all over town every week to stock up on totally random and bizarre items. Her pantry was overflowing but trying to put together a cohesive and palatable meal was nearly impossible.

Here's a thought. Buy in bulk IF it is cheaper (but actually compare those prices because it is not always cheaper). Make a menu, build your grocery list from your menu. Stick to your grocery list and don't do any trips in-beween those shopping trips. That is the BEST way to save funds, plain and simple. However, at the end of the day, FOOD is not the budget item to scrimp on. If you really and truly cannot afford to feed your family, apply for food stamps and stop having kids! That's the bottom line.

[chaotic life]

Oh, I forgot. I knew a family that served only ONE PIECE OF FRUIT per child for breakfast. They didn't get fruit any other time of the day.

I've also know quite a few families who decide that we are biologically only meant to eat two meals per day and thus cut out the third meal. That one just pisses me off, but you would be surprised how common it is.

Granted, I normally only eat two meals myself, and it's probably pretty common for adults. However CHILDREN need FOOD, plain and simple.

[emesbe]

Erica posted some photos----SOOOO modest! And there's the ubiqitous denim frumper!

https://picasaweb.google.com/1010570494 ... 8567366162

[TMS]

Oh, no. She's been listening to Steve Maxwell. http DOT largefamiliesonpurpose.com/2012/08/organized-sports-and-individual-hobbies.html

[emesbe]

Yep. The Shupes are Maxwell boot-lickers.

:roll:

[quiningseven]

Ugh, it just reads to me like "we don't have the time or money for activities, so let's find some biblical excuse to deny them to our kids" drives me insane- especially since I was a child that was never allowed to do activities for money reasons :(

[AnnieC 305]

I'm sorry. A friend posted this on Facebook and I have to share right here.

From Liberia, of course. There were some major loopholes in the laws which allowed any jerk who wanted to set up adoptions to simply make themselves look like a business, tell the Liberian government they were a US adoption agency and get the required agency license in Liberia. My personal favorite was the Liberian whose Daddy was a good friend of Taylor. She had her little mittens in everything Liberian that would allow her to make a profit. I was told by several families that her restaurant in Monrovia was using UN food aid supplies in the kitchen which they then cooked and sold to the public. She happened to discover selling children was WAY more profitable, especially once she realized she could charge a $5K expedite fee for an "expedited adoption" which meant she paid everyone off but mostly she pocketed the "fee" she forced families to use for every child under age 2.

That shiester was actually telling highly punitive families how to fake and lie to pass a homestudy and encouraging them to use independent social workers instead of agencies that would look closer.

Basically, Nancy Campbell put out this mass "calling" for her followers with Above Rubies to adopt Liberian orphans, and they did so by the thousands. They fooled social workers by flat-out LYING about discipline tactics and now those Liberian kids end up dumped into the US fostercare system every year still, and some do indeed end up shipped back to Liberia. The country is closed now, but the impact is still ongoing.

I honestly fear more for the children who have NOT been dumped and what abuse and neglect they endure in homes that are so isolated that no one sees them or stops to realize they need help.

Rabbit trail completed....sorry!

OK, going back on topic.....

[Chowder Head]

AnnieC 305 I just cried at that picture.

[Sola]

Does anyone else find it annoying that she inserts *smile* into every other sentence? Lest we think for a moment she isn't keeping sweet and smiling.

I always find that condescending. Whenever I read it on a blog I start grinding my teeth. It makes me want to reach into the interwebs and slap that bloody *smile* off her face. *smile*

[Zoom]

Does anyone else find it annoying that she inserts *smile* into every other sentence? Lest we think for a moment she isn't keeping sweet and smiling.

It is driving me round the bend!!

[Peas n carrots]

Ugh, it just reads to me like "we don't have the time or money for activities, so let's find some biblical excuse to deny them to our kids" drives me insane- especially since I was a child that was never allowed to do activities for money reasons :(

I was thinking the same thing. Also, it is apparently bad to be passionate about hobbies/sports too. She gave the golf example and golf widows etc. I don't get why it's bad to have a few diverging interests. My DH loves soccer, and I love running. We are both supportive of each others passions, and we both know doing what we love keeps us both sane.

I am wondering if I am the only person where who thinks this lady is OTT about keeping her house clean? I know with an army of children you have to be vigilant about organization or else the house goes to hell in hours. But cleaning the cabinet fronts every week? Putting a tea towel over the appliances on top of the refrigerator to keep dust off? Just a few of the things I found to be a little too much.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

She apparently thinks sugar is a drug and is Satanic:

Some sugar addiction origins

For most of my life, since grade school, I experienced an addiction to sugar. A craving, "I have to have it" feeling that controlled me - and which I obeyed. Although I did not recognize it for what it was until just a few years ago. I felt addicted, but I didn't consciously realize that it is a real addiction, and one to find freedom from.

I learned in a class I took a few years ago that when someone has generational addictions to alcohol in their family (their parents or extended family), it's very common that the next generation may instead experience an addiction to sugar.

I also learned in that same class a fact I found very interesting: that one entire package of Oreo cookies is about equal to two low-grade alcoholic drinks in the effect it has on one's body. So I began paying close attention to my own reaction to sugar over the course of the next month. I was surprised to find that when I was experiencing something difficult in life (daily!) my thoughts were, "I need something sweet right now." I have chosen to not drink alcohol at all, but this felt and sounded to me just like an alcoholic saying, "I have to have a drink", and the reasoning and justifications for this thinking that I began to recognize were the same. Desiring an outside comfort (from something other than the Lord), and escape. And I would go out of my way to get some....

After reading the title to this post you may be asking, "Can one really be addicted to sugar??" The answer - Oh yes. I've experienced it. Many people do. And it's actually very, very common, very accepted as "normal", pretty invisible and unrecognized as a problem...and very damaging emotionally, spiritually, and physically. I'm writing about this subject because I believe it is a huge problem for many moms, and therefore one that effects a mom's - and her family's - well being...

I was experiencing so much physical discouragement and spiritual assault and oppression when I had too much sugar - depression, bondage, exhaustion, physical self-rejection about my weight, lost joy, nightmares. Then I began to see that a sugar addiction really is a trust issue. Do I trust God to meet my needs for comfort instead of relying upon the false antidote of sugar? In honestly searching for truth about this addiction I was bringing myself in to agreement with God's Word and will (for my freedom); and I began rejecting the lies of the adversary and accepting God's promises and evaluation of my situation.

In other words, "I can't control what I shove down my gullet so I'll pretend I'm addicted."

I doubt very much this lady had dealt with real addiction. I've yet to hear of someone selling family heirlooms because they needed a sugar fix, neglecting their kids because they were too busy eating Snickers bars, or snapping and beating their kids while they were high.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

Another post to add, the potty training post is appalling. It's like To Potty Train Up A Child. I'm not going to quote because it's very long, but she makes kids eat a bunch of salty snacks and drink lots of fluid, then locks them in the bathroom and micromanages their bathroom use.

In the same post, she has lots of pictures of them eating in the bathroom, and accumulating a pile of soiled undies. Blech.

She expects her kids to be potty trained in 5-6 hours, but it seems that half of her younger kids really aren't potty trained at all.

http://wwwDOTlargefamiliesonpurpose.com ... .html#more

[snarkbillie]

Another post to add, the potty training post is appalling. It's like To Potty Train Up A Child. I'm not going to quote because it's very long, but she makes kids eat a bunch of salty snacks and drink lots of fluid, then locks them in the bathroom and micromanages their bathroom use.

In the same post, she has lots of pictures of them eating in the bathroom, and accumulating a pile of soiled undies. Blech.

She expects her kids to be potty trained in 5-6 hours, but it seems that half of her younger kids really aren't potty trained at all.

http://wwwDOTlargefamiliesonpurpose.com/2012/06/potty-training-children-in-less-than.html#more

I remember when I was potty training my first and there was some book that Dr. Phil was pimping out which basically said to over-hydrate your kid and then put them on the potty until they peed in it. The book was all "and put the potty in the kitchen so you can still do your chores while making sure they don't get up until they pee". It was disgusting. Three people gave me that book and I threw it away 3 times. It was touted as "potty train your child in one afternoon" or something equally ridiculous. It took us a month or two to get her potty trained MY way but I did it without shame, abuse, guilt or being mean. If she had an accident I just cleaned it up. Obviously it was an accident why would you punish someone over an accident?!

Edit to add broken link for the rest of us: http://www.largefamiliesonpurpose.com/2012/06/potty-training-children-in-less-than.html#more

[Glass Cowcatcher]

I remember when I was potty training my first and there was some book that Dr. Phil was pimping out which basically said to over-hydrate your kid and then put them on the potty until they peed in it. The book was all "and put the potty in the kitchen so you can still do your chores while making sure they don't get up until they pee". It was disgusting. Three people gave me that book and I threw it away 3 times. It was touted as "potty train your child in one afternoon" or something equally ridiculous. It took us a month or two to get her potty trained MY way but I did it without shame, abuse, guilt or being mean. If she had an accident I just cleaned it up. Obviously it was an accident why would you punish someone over an accident?!

Having a portable potty wherever the offspring were really helped to potty train them, but intentionally punishing them doesn't help.

[snarkbillie]

We took the potty seat with us, you know the tiny one so they don't fall in? I also packed up a little step stool. I realized that as long as her feet weren't dangling and her booty was secure she would use any potty there was. After she was pretty stable in going (no accidents) I didn't have to bring the step stool/potty seat anymore.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

It worked well for me to start them on a small plastic potty and setting them on it, then gradually move that closer and closer to the bathroom, and they got the idea of going there when they actually had to go.

At night I started by putting them to bed with undies, then while they were asleep putting a diaper on over that. The diapers went away when they started waking up dry.

Sure, there were more accidents this way and it took longer, but the method was not based on guilt and there was not a back-and-forth progress.

[TMS]

Another post to add, the potty training post is appalling. It's like To Potty Train Up A Child. I'm not going to quote because it's very long, but she makes kids eat a bunch of salty snacks and drink lots of fluid, then locks them in the bathroom and micromanages their bathroom use.

In the same post, she has lots of pictures of them eating in the bathroom, and accumulating a pile of soiled undies. Blech.

She expects her kids to be potty trained in 5-6 hours, but it seems that half of her younger kids really aren't potty trained at all.

http://wwwDOTlargefamiliesonpurpose.com ... .html#more

OK, I did not read her article about that, but I am familiar with that book. As dubious as the title sounds, I read it and followed it for two of my children - and it worked. The kids have to have signs that they are actually ready before you begin. My husband took the other kids out for the day, and we completely focused on potty training and nothing else. It was fun, there was no punishment involved, and yes I gave my my "trainees" salty snacks and diluted juice to help them go often, but it was only a one-day thing. They really were potty-trained after that one day.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

OK, I did not read her article about that, but I am familiar with that book. As dubious as the title sounds, I read it and followed it for two of my children - and it worked. The kids have to have signs that they are actually ready before you begin. My husband took the other kids out for the day, and we completely focused on potty training and nothing else. It was fun, there was no punishment involved, and yes I gave my my "trainees" salty snacks and diluted juice to help them go often, but it was only a one-day thing. They really were potty-trained after that one day.

So did you give them food and drinks in the bathroom? That's just nasty, if you did.

Did you tell them other family members will be disappointed if they do not use the potty? That is manipulative.

Did you make them walk back and forth from the toilet, repeatedly, in soiled underwear? That's borderline abusive.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I saw that potty training post, and I thought it sounded very unlikely to work. I wouldnt count it as being fully potty trained until your child rarely has accidents. Her five and six year old are still not dry through the night, and one of her other kids wore pull ups at night at age 7, and she says that accidents are normal for days after this potty training day, so its not really a day. I wouldnt officially count potty training being over til the child is completely dry in the day and mostly at night (the odd accident is common in small children).

I really did not need to see pictures of her kid on the toilet.

[snarkbillie]

It worked well for me to start them on a small plastic potty and setting them on it, then gradually move that closer and closer to the bathroom, and they got the idea of going there when they actually had to go.

At night I started by putting them to bed with undies, then while they were asleep putting a diaper on over that. The diapers went away when they started waking up dry.

Sure, there were more accidents this way and it took longer, but the method was not based on guilt and there was not a back-and-forth progress.

I had two sets of "big girl undies" one was pretty colors and the other had some character on it (whatever she wanted I don't remember) and I let her pick in the morning which ones she wore. There was no point to it other than showing her that she was a 'big girl' now and could pick her own 'big girl undies'. My mom would ask if I tried to incentivise her to end the day in the same pair but I thought that was too close to guilt, so I didn't.

[ilovetchotchkes]

Having a portable potty wherever the offspring were really helped to potty train them, but intentionally punishing them doesn't help.

This! Before we "took a break" from training (Toddler isn't ready) if he went in his pants, we'd strip em off, RUN to the bathroom bare bottomed before anything else was produced (we keep the "big boy pants" in the bathroom because the big boy pants are a reward in themselves for going on the potty), have him throw em in the hamper himself, clean him up and say to him "uh oh! accidents happen! want to try to sit on the potty?" even though it was too late. Him putting them in the hamper himself isn't a punishment- we use almost verbatim word for word "ok, you had an accident, can you be a big boy and help mama clean it up? "

He's showing signs that he's ready, but the few times we've actively tried to potty train him, he's resisted because he's a stubborn little booger. And that's his personality- its not like he's gonna go off to college in pull ups and his preschool does not require potty training so I'm not concerned. He'll figure it out eventually and in the mean time, i have an excuse to keep buying adorable cloth diapers. Win/win! I really don't get this fundy mentality of "break the kids' spirit in EVERYTHING. EVERYTHING MUST BE CONTROLLED". I seriously don't get it.

Potty training is one of the big reasons why we're pretty sure we're done at 2 kids.

[TMS]

So did you give them food and drinks in the bathroom? That's just nasty, if you did.

Nope, and I agree. We don't have food and drink in the bathroom (except wine/champagne while taking a bubble bath).

Did you tell them other family members will be disappointed if they do not use the potty? That is manipulative.

Absolutely not. She did this with her kids? The book does NOT say to do that. I didn't read her article, just the book. The whole experience was very positive and fun.

Did you make them walk back and forth from the toilet, repeatedly, in soiled underwear? That's borderline abusive.

No, that's gross. After cleaning up, we did run around the house to all the bathrooms yelling, "practice, practice, practice!", the child being trained laughing and having a ball and thinking it hilarious that Mom let him/her run in the house just this time.