Pastor Refuses to Pay Tip Because She Gives to God

[Miggy]

The thing about this that REALLY gets me?? She signed it "Pastor" :clap: I mean really?!?! Is that little bit of info really necessary?? (Heck, the pastor at my church doesn't even like people to call him "Pastor" because he says he wants us to see him as an equal and not as though he is above us...)

18% is huge?? Really??

I've always been under the impression that an "average" service gets a 15% tip - and I often try to tip 20-25% if the service is good.

That said - you fifteen year old makes $14/hour!??! My husband is 30 and makes "about" that when his salary is broken down - granted he works 70 hours a week...

I was always taught 10% IF you felt the service was exceptional. Hubby learnt the same and it is what we have taught the kids. There is certainly no pressure anywhere I eat to tip at all. We eat out quite a bit and usually just round the bill up to the next "easy" number, rather than bothering to work out a proper amount, and we are always welcomed back. There has been a debate in the newspapers lately as a lot of big restaurants in the cities are starting to add it to the bill and a lot of people are objecting.

Minimum wage in Australia for an adult is $15.96/hour. My son's boss believes all staff should get the same wage regardless of age as they all do the same job. Qualifications do matter so those with Hospitality Certificates from TAFE get higher wages than those don't. So adults with no formal qualifications get minimum wage ($15.96) or higher (not sure how much) if they are trained. Teenagers get $12/hour with no training or $14/hour if they are participating in training.

[treemom]

Because tipping varies in countries I am not shocked that Miggy thought the amount was huge. When we climbed Kilimanjaro this summer the guides, porters, and cooks who helped us mostly survived on tips. Besides the three of us we had an Australian couple John us and they were generally frustrated by the concept of tipping because it just doesn't happen in aus.

My work BFF is from New Zealand and she said she chased an American down one day to return a tip and explain she was paid a decent living wage and there was not a need to tip. When she moved here she was really shocked to discover tipping is common and the general wage for severs is low.

It is just a cultural difference, so until you know the details it probably does seem high.

[salsa]

I'm on my way to work and I just breezed in to see what was going on... I'm not going to add my 2 cents on the pastor, server, large parties, or Applebees, but i wanted to chime in on the giving God 10% (and forgive me if someone has already posted something like this).

No, the money does not go directly to God, but it does go to God's work. It not only keeps the electricity on in the church for the church members, but funds ministries and outreach the church does as a result of their faith in God. The "remainder" does NOT go into a pastor's pocket, but it is true that the pastor's stipend/salary (including mileage and continuing education expenses) is included in the overall church budget. Some pastors do work without a salary, but it is fair to pay a full time pastor a salary - and most salaries are quite modest, even considering that there is often a living space provided. The money to God provides Summer Vacation Bible School for neighborhood children, support for community ministries, sponsoring scout troops, and, depending on a church's size, paying a musician to provide some quality music at worship. Some churches give an informational leaflet about ways newcomers can become involved or learn - and that printing costs something - and you want it to look decent because newcomers may conclude that the church is slap-dash if it's poorly-copied. A lot of people, when they phone a church, need the phone to be answered and it becomes necessary to hire a part-time secretary because sometimes the pastor is in a meeting or on a visit where s/he can't be interrupted. Folks who give to God want to feed hungry people, have something constructive for children to do in the summer, and keep their church bus running and insured so senior citizens can go on day trips. They need to buy cleaning products, light bulbs, paper, and ink for the copier.

That's the way people who give to God think of it. It's not like we think we're giving it to God directly, but combining our resources as a community to live out what we believe to be our calling. I understand that not everyone will see it this way, but this is my way of inviting folks to see it from another point of view.

[valsa]

That's the way people who give to God think of it. It's not like we think we're giving it to God directly, but combining our resources as a community to live out what we believe to be our calling. I understand that not everyone will see it this way, but this is my way of inviting folks to see it from another point of view.

Gee, thanks. People here are too stupid to realize any of this.

The fact is the woman said she gives 10% to God when what she really does, assuming she's telling the truth about the percentage, is give 10% of her money to a private establishment that provides her a service. Which is not any more holy than spending 10% of your income on eating out or music lessons or hookers.

[OkToBeTakei]

In the US a lower minimum is allowed for servers. It varies by state. This site does a breakdown:

paywizard.org/main/minimum-wage/tipped-workers

The lowest I see is $1.59/hour in Kansas. That's criminal.

That IS criminal :(

Minimum wage here is £6.19 $9.72 US. Which I think is bad enough.

It is less for 18-20 yr olds and less for under 18's.

[libmomj]

This particular "Pastor" leads a 15 member church that rents a storefront. She's essentially paying 10% of her income from her other job to feed her own power trip, not "giving it to God". Sure, she may be very religious and very service oriented, and perhaps her group serves the community from that storefront in ways they couldn't from a living room. Based on her actions regarding this incident, I doubt it.

[SamuraiKatz]

I was always taught 10% IF you felt the service was exceptional. Hubby learnt the same and it is what we have taught the kids. There is certainly no pressure anywhere I eat to tip at all. We eat out quite a bit and usually just round the bill up to the next "easy" number, rather than bothering to work out a proper amount, and we are always welcomed back. There has been a debate in the newspapers lately as a lot of big restaurants in the cities are starting to add it to the bill and a lot of people are objecting.

Minimum wage in Australia for an adult is $15.96/hour. My son's boss believes all staff should get the same wage regardless of age as they all do the same job. Qualifications do matter so those with Hospitality Certificates from TAFE get higher wages than those don't. So adults with no formal qualifications get minimum wage ($15.96) or higher (not sure how much) if they are trained. Teenagers get $12/hour with no training or $14/hour if they are participating in training.

Minimum wage in the United States $7.25 per hour for MOST jobs. Waiter/ress minimum is $2.15 an hour. This amount has been unchanged for thirty years. In the early 1980s, I made $2.15 per hour plus tips for waiting tables. The minimum wage for all other jobs was $3.35.

[GolightlyGrrl]

To me, a true mark of character is how someone who treats people who work in the service industry. If someone treats waitstaff, baristas, cashiers, receptionists, salespeople, etc. like absolute shit, then that person is of very little character.

[AmyP]

Many restaurants add tips to large parties because they are so often terrible tippers. Also, has anyone mentioned tipshare? Tipshare is where a server pays a percentage out of his/her total SALES to the host and the bar. Notice I said SALES not tips. If you get stiffed by a table you actually have to pay out of your other tips to cover the tipshare on that meal. In many restaurants servers also have to pay for walkouts. If someone walks out on their bill, the server has to pay the entire bill. I know Applebees has both of these policies, but they are not the only one.

[cjsmom]

Many restaurants add tips to large parties because they are so often terrible tippers. Also, has anyone mentioned tipshare? Tipshare is where a server pays a percentage out of his/her total SALES to the host and the bar. Notice I said SALES not tips. If you get stiffed by a table you actually have to pay out of your other tips to cover the tipshare on that meal. In many restaurants servers also have to pay for walkouts. If someone walks out on their bill, the server has to pay the entire bill. I know Applebees has both of these policies, but they are not the only one.

One of the reasons I avoid chain restaurants are for the tipsharing and dine and dash policies. That being said, when I was serving, I did share a portion of my tips (but again, tips not sales) with bar staff. There was no host service where I worked. Bar staff made far more in tips than I did, due to their shift being longer than mine, and rich peeps in the bar until 2am when they got spend-happy with the tip line on their cc slip at the end of the night. I still tipped them out.

[Librul]

Servers have to pay income tax on a certain amount of tips based on their hours, whether they receive those tips or not. My son worked at Friday's and that was drilled into them during training. So if you stiff your server you are screwing them twice. The IRA assumes that you DID tip them and they pay taxes accordingly.

I hate people who stiff servers, many of whom are students, people who have been laid off, single parents, young people just starting out and retirees trying to make ends meet. My son said that people in his store, in a very affluent neighborhood, were known for stiffing wait staff. If your service is bad, talk calmly to management, talk to your server, etc.

People who leave tracks, nasty messages, etc. are total losers. I waited at a Pizza Hut in college, and the number of people who left pennies, left change in the bottom of beer pitchers, stiffed me, etc. could fill a notebook. May they spend time in the outer ring of hell. Waiting on others.

[chaotic life]

I find it ironic that the chain restaurant with the WORST discrimination behaviors against nursing mothers has the nerve to say they are concerned with having a customer embarrassed.

REALLY??????

It's okay when an innocent baby is minding their own business and you SHAME them and THEIR MOTHER, throw them out of the restaurant and defend that discrimnation despite repeatedly incurring wraths and nurse-ins at your locations for such ignorant beahvior. However, let a so called "Pastor" disgrace her faith, her profession and verbally abuse a server and you will fire the employee who make her face her own behavior, which she well deserved.

[chaotic life]

This is the company that says they take customer privacy seriously and don't want their customers to be offended????

http://doublethink.us.com/paala/2012/09 ... applebees/

Try telling a story that is believable!

[GiggleOfGirls]

To me, a true mark of character is how someone who treats people who work in the service industry. If someone treats waitstaff, baristas, cashiers, receptionists, salespeople, etc. like absolute shit, then that person is of very little character.

I agree with this.

My parents taught me pretty early on that the way a man treats waitresses and his mother is a good indication of how he will treat his future wife. Ignoring the obvious heterosexual bias inherent in anything my parents taught me, I've found that to be pretty much true in my experience, judging by my past boyfriends, current husband, and friends' relationships in general. The partners who treated myself or my friends horribly, also treated waitstaff and their parents horribly. Those who treated/treat waitstaff and their parents well, treated/treat their partners well also.

[valsa]

I agree with this.

My parents taught me pretty early on that the way a man treats waitresses and his mother is a good indication of how he will treat his future wife. Ignoring the obvious heterosexual bias inherent in anything my parents taught me, I've found that to be pretty much true in my experience, judging by my past boyfriends, current husband, and friends' relationships in general. The partners who treated myself or my friends horribly, also treated waitstaff and their parents horribly. Those who treated/treat waitstaff and their parents well, treated/treat their partners well also.

I agree, with one caveat- psychopaths.

My father plays the dutiful son to his mother (his father is not in picture) and is always lovely towards waitstaff. He is also abusive and enjoys it when people fear him. There is a reason "glibness/superficial charm" appears on psychopathic checklists.

[salsa]

Gee, thanks. People here are too stupid to realize any of this.

The fact is the woman said she gives 10% to God when what she really does, assuming she's telling the truth about the percentage, is give 10% of her money to a private establishment that provides her a service. Which is not any more holy than spending 10% of your income on eating out or music lessons or hookers.

fair enough. Obviously I don't see it the same way.

In any case, the pastor's actions and that of the Applebee's franchise owner and Applebee's corporate for standing behind the franchisee beyond reprehensible. Every day it seems that something new about the situation is being told. I sent it in to snopes and I'm hoping they eventually will have sorted out what really happened. The pastor did what she did, though some reports say she left the tip in cash. It doesn't excuse the note - nothing does, but I assumed, like many, that the server had been stiffed. But did she *really* leave a cash tip or is that a rumor? Did the server who waited on the table make the note public or one of her colleagues? I've heard conflicting stories. It's still wrong, but I'd be pissed if a coworker did that without my permission. The pastor is now suing for what - slander?, which is also beyond decency - and the franchise owner fired either the stiffed waitress or her coworker, and Applebee's corporate stands behind the franchisee (which, if they didn't, could put them in legal hot water with the franchisee because franchisees are independent owners and have freedom in disciplinary actions. Not that it's right, but corporate *may* have their hands tied if they're contractually bound to give freedom to independent owners). What infuriates me is that it's the low-level worker that once again gets the brunt of it. They can be spoken rudely to, harassed, and even verbally abused and in return, they have to smile and be polite (though a good manager will not accept that behavior from customers).

As for the pastor, she ruined her own reputation and is digging the hole deeper with this lawsuit. I have no sympathy for her whatsoever. I hate those who are saying things like, "pastors are human beings, too." That may be true, but even on a bad day or in an impulsive moment of pique (and this doesn't seem like it was impulsive, as she thought long enough to try to skirt the rule by asking for separate checks), there is no excuse for that behavior. And if they got individual bills to try to avoid the automatic 18% tip, how is hers $35 for lunch? What the hell did she order? Lunch - $10, Soda - $2, Dessert - $5 ... $17 at most, unless she had an appetizer of $7, making the bill $23.

[Ramona]

In BC, wait staff earn less than minimum wage.

I served through college, and while I heard a lot of really fun things from fundie-lites trying to win my soul, never saw anything close to as low as this.

I didn't know that .. I thought minimum wage laws apply to all jobs (aside from things like babysitting, cutting lawns, y'know). [edit]

Did anyone see that the Pastor's website got hacked?

As of right now, it hasn't been fixed tiwdm.webs.com/

[SilverBeach]

Cheap-ass people like this so-called "pastor" should go to a drive-through or stay home. They tend to be the worst customers, no or low tip folks. My daughter served, hostessed, and bartended her way through college, and I have heard it all. I still over-tip because I know how hard restaurant workers hump, they share tips, and make almost no salary. Without tip income no one would ever take these positions. Arrrgh, cheap tippers are a pet peeve of mine.

[Rosa]

Ramona, many classes of jobs in the US are exempt from minimum wage laws - the biggest is that many agricultural workers are exempt, and all seasonal workers (so agricultural workers, groundskeepers, etc) are exempt from overtime rules and rules about what counts as "full time" for benefits.

[Dixiebelle]

The pastor did what she did, though some reports say she left the tip in cash. It doesn't excuse the note - nothing does, but I assumed, like many, that the server had been stiffed. But did she *really* leave a cash tip or is that a rumor?

The pastor paid the 18% automatic tip. The "0" she wrote is for additional tip. The server was not stiffed, whether or not cash was also paid. The only thing the customer did was write the note. She did pay her bill, including the tip. You can see it right there in the picture.

I have to side with Applebee's on this one. The server who posted it should not have included the customer's name. Cheap or not, stiffed or not, the customer does not deserve what she is experiencing now. IMO of course.

Should they have fired the employee - obviously not, seeing all this backlash. However, it was in the employee handbook, the rule was violated. They were within their rights to do so.

Here are applebee's statements from their FB page:

We appreciate the chance to explain our franchisee’s action in this unfortunate situation.

Please let us assure you that Applebee’s and every one of our franchisees values our hard working team members and the amazing job they do serving our guests. We recognize the extraordinary effort required and the tremendous contribution they make, and appreciate your recognition and support of our colleagues.

At the same time, as we know you will agree, the guests who visit Applebee’s -- people like you -- expect and deserve to be treated with professionalism and care in everything we do. That is a universal standard in the hospitality business. That includes respecting and protecting the privacy of every guest, which is why our franchisees who own and operate Applebee’s have strict policies to protect personal information -- even guest’s names.

With that in mind, here is what happened in St. Louis:

- A guest questioned the tip automatically attached to her large party’s bill by writing: "I give God 10%. Why do you get 18?" on the check.

- A different server, who did not even wait on the group, photographed the receipt, posted the photo online and commented about the incident.

- The guest subsequently heard from friends who identified her from the posting, where her name is clearly visible, and the restaurant was notified. There was no further communication with the guest.

- The team member was asked about posting the receipt and admitted she was responsible.

- When she was hired, the team member was provided the franchisee’s employee hand book which includes their social media policy and states:

“Employees must honor the privacy rights of APPLEBEE’s and its employees by seeking permission before writing about or displaying internal APPLEBEE’S happenings that might be

considered to be a breach of privacy and confidentiality. This shall include, but not be limited to, posting of photographs, video, or audio of APPLEBEE’S employees or its customers,

suppliers, agents or competitors, without first obtaining written approval from the Vice President of Operations. The policy goes on to specify: Employees who violate this policy will be subject to disciplinary action, up to and including termination of employment.

- As a result of her admission to violating a clear company policy intended to safeguard guests, the team member is no longer employed by the franchisee.

Our franchisees are committed to acting in the best interests of guests and team members. This is a regrettable situation and we wish it had never happened. However, the disregard for an important policy left the franchisee no choice but to take the action they did.

We hope this provides you with some additional insight. Thanks for giving us the opportunity to explain the facts involved.

and

As a company that relies on literally hundreds of thousands of incredibly hard working Team Members, we can assure you that we and our franchisees value and support them and their efforts. However this unfortunate situation has nothing to do with work. The Team Member involved did not wait on the guest or party. Regrettably, and without the restaurant's knowledge, she took it upon herself to take a Guest's receipt, with the name clearly visible, and posted it online with her own commentary. That is a clear violation of our Guest's privacy and against the franchisee's company policy that the Team Member was provided when hired. We simply cannot accept behavior that compromises the safety and privacy our Guests have every right to expect and deserve. Please note that we are also not excusing the Guest's behavior in this matter and the unacceptable comment she wrote on the receipt, which is offensive to us and all our hard working team members. To be clear, the 18% gratuity added to large party tickets was paid by the Guest’s party. This is a regrettable situation, and we wish it had never happened. we hope this provides you with some additional insight. Thanks again for the chance to explain.

ETA: What the pastor wrote was stupid, but does she deserve all this hate? I don't think so, and I don't think Applebee's does (and I don't care for Applebee's, their food and service sucks at our local. We call it "Crapplebee's.)

[Guest Anonymous]

ETA: What the pastor wrote was stupid, but does she deserve all this hate? I don't think so, and I don't think Applebee's does (and I don't care for Applebee's, their food and service sucks at our local. We call it "Crapplebee's.)

Outrage isn't the same thing as hate. I think the pastor deserves the outrage because (1) she behaved badly, and (2) when caught out she didn't apologise in any appropriate manner but compounded the problem by her crass statements.

Appropriate New Testament behaviour might include any or all of: asking forgiveness, turning the other cheek, repaying seventy times the debt that she stole "in her heart". Instead she had a temper tantrum and has been publicly shamed for it. Shit happens.

[Buzzard]

Outrage isn't the same thing as hate. I think the pastor deserves the outrage because (1) she behaved badly, and (2) when caught out she didn't apologise in any appropriate manner but compounded the problem by her crass statements.

Appropriate New Testament behaviour might include any or all of: asking forgiveness, turning the other cheek, repaying seventy times the debt that she stole "in her heart". Instead she had a temper tantrum and has been publicly shamed for it. Shit happens.

Exactly. The receipt was one thing, her immature reaction is a whole different ball of wax. The totality is what makes it snark worthy.

[Dixiebelle]

Shit does happen but I think the public reaction is over the top. That's all I'm saying. She should apologize, I have no idea if she has. I think everyone would say she's only doing it because she was caught. It's lose-lose for her now, and she will have to suck it up and deal.

[debrand]

ETA: What the pastor wrote was stupid, but does she deserve all this hate? I don't think so, and I don't think Applebee's does (and I don't care for Applebee's, their food and service sucks at our local. We call it "Crapplebee's.)

I'm not certain why Applebees isn't getting the reaction it deserves?

The corporation could have handle this differently. They could have apologized that the pastor's actual name was used and reprimanded the server without firing her. Perhaps they could have temporarily suspended her. It isn't as though they had to fire her to make their point. They've created their own PR nightmare and it doesn't really matter if they are within their rights or not. Most businesses understand that taking an unpopular stance could hurt their sales. There is no way that Applebees didn't understand this would get a backlash. I'm not certain why they thought firing the server was worth loosing customers.

I'll admit it, I've eaten there and enjoyed the food. The staff have always been polite and considerate. My tastes in food are pretty low class though.

[valsa]

Should they have fired the employee - obviously not, seeing all this backlash. However, it was in the employee handbook, the rule was violated. They were within their rights to do so.

Even if it's within their rights, given that Applebees itself is guilty of posting a positive letter that was sent to them online, with the customer's name visible, it does come across as hypocritical.

ETA: What the pastor wrote was stupid, but does she deserve all this hate? I don't think so, and I don't think Applebee's does (and I don't care for Applebee's, their food and service sucks at our local. We call it "Crapplebee's.)

Yes, she does (to some people, obviously) She used God and her religion to try to shame someone for simply getting paid what she is due. Also, if the waitress provided good service to a large party, 18% is still on the low side of an appropriate tip. That pisses people off for a number of reasons. Christians who aren't such assholes are pissed off because someone is using their religion and God to justify bad behavior. Other people are pissed off because they know how hard waitstaff work and know they don't deserve shit like getting tracts and nasty notes on receipts. Still others are pissed off because it was just a rude thing to do and being complicit in the fact this woman got fired just compounded the bad behavior.

Doing anything less than apologizing when this came to light and, if Applebees had fired the poster anyway, making a public appeal to them to re-hire the waitress, is worthy of contempt.