Raising Godly Tomatoes

[Aisling]

Bloody hell!!

[celestial]

Bloody hell!!

Friends who grew up in southern states (Texas and Mississippi, specifically) described paddling as a daily occurrence in their schools, from elementary right on up through high school. And that wasn't very long ago, and I don't think it's changed much since then.

[Aisling]

Friends who grew up in southern states (Texas and Mississippi, specifically) described paddling as a daily occurrence in their schools, from elementary right on up through high school. And that wasn't very long ago, and I don't think it's changed much since then.

I'm genuinely really shocked at that. Physical punishment in schools is totally illegal over here, and you always hear these stories (gutter papers mostly) about teachers getting sacked because they pulled a kid round by the arm or something.

I just couldn't imagine schools being allowed to whack kids with big fuck off bits of wood. I clutch my pearls as it is, over my dad's stories of having blackboard dusters lobbed at him.

[RosyDaisy]

Until recently corporal punishment was the norm in the schools in my neck of the woods. Now parents have to sign a form declaring if they want their kids paddled or not. I have heard of cases where that agreement was violated. So much for honoring a parent's wishes about discipline :evil: .

[Seven Severn]

At my elementary school there was a paddle in the principal's office. Supposedly it had holes drilled in it (there were a lot of rumors about it). Kids didn't get paddled very often, but when it happened word got around. The mere existence of the paddle was enough to keep most kids in line. If parents didn't want the possibility of their kids getting paddled then they could opt out at the beginning of the school year. This was small-town Kansas in the late '60s and early '70s.

A good friend in grade school was the daughter of the local Southern Baptist minister. He used to routinely beat her across the back of her legs with a razor strap. She tried to commit suicide her freshman year of college.

[shedemei]

Ho. Ly. Shit.

My ex-stepmother didn't like the way I pronounced "yeah" and fined me $1 every time I said it. I thought she was a wacko (for many other reasons as well), but this guy is absolutely insane.

[AddieBelle]

My father's wife liked to hit us with wooden spoons. The last time she did it I got hit in the face with the spoon. I was 17 and flipped the fuck out. She and I ended up in a fist fight and it was the last night I ever spent in my father's house. My sister will not let my nephews stay at his house because of her. There is no o.k. spanking, you should never hit a child.

[RosyDaisy]

AddieBelle, that reminds me of my cousin proudly displaying her "spanking spoon" on a a Christmas elf decoration. Sickening.

[TheSassyOne]

To say this is disturbing is a huge understatement. I'm shocked because until I started reading at FJ I didn't realize there were so many underlying aspects of fundies. I just always thought they were crazy right wing zealots; and yet I'm still shocked (almost daily) of what I read about their doctrine and practices.

When Katrina happened, my school took in over 300 students from various schools in New Orleans. We had a group of young men from St. Augustine High and one day during my lunch duty I learned about the spanking culture there. They told me instead of receiving detentions, suspensions or most other types of discipline, they were spanked. I was appalled, but most assured me that it was just a few smacks with the paddle, so they preferred it over hour long detentions after school. I did have two young men tell me that they had already spoken with their parents and wanted to stay at my school even though they were aware many of the NO schools were reopening. One guy told me that those who administered the paddling would actually come into the classroom, call out a list of names and their offenses and have them stand/bend in front of the entire class to have their discipline administered.

Last year, well in 2011, there was a huge controversy at this same school (St. Aug's). The Archbishop along with the Board had struck down paddling. I was again appalled to read about so many students, alumni, faculty, and parents of present and past students angry with the Archbishop. Ultimately the Archbishop and Board stood up to the controversy and did indeed remove corporal punishment as a tool for discipline in that school.

Here's an article from three months ago that gives some insight into the situation, along with comments from the school's President and Principal.

http://theadvocate.com/news/4126595-123 ... -the-level

[NotALoserLikeYou]

There have been several stories about school paddlings lately. The most recent girl made the rounds on several TV shows. She was paddled by a male principal and her mom was horrified about the bruises. The mom had given her consent and really was just made that a male had done it when the rules dictate that a female should punish females. I think it was on Ricki Lake and of course half the audience was pro spanking, because you know, kids today are brats because they aren't spanked.

The stuff from the tomato lady and her friends is disgusting. Sadly, its not the worst thing I have read. Before I ever joined this forum my fundie friend posted an article by a pastor who broke the will of his, I want to say 13 or 18 month old child who would not accept dinner from him. He wanted his mommy. The man kept him in a crib for like 2 DAYS only changing him and to ask him "are you ready to accept the bread from me now?" leaving the kid to scream all of this time. The baby finally was broken. It was so upsetting, I still think about it. My friend lost friends for even posting it. She said she would not do that, but that it was a BEAUTIFUL example of our sinful natures and how children must be trained. I'll see if I can find it so you all can be traumatized too.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Never mind. I can't keep googling and reading child abuse stories, I do not have the stomach for it. The point was the baby was not allowed out of the crib until he LOVINGLY accepted the bread from his father, and thanked him for it. I swear the baby was 13 months old. These child trainers are DISGUSTING.

I asked my friend on FB if she remembers. But it was like 2 years ago.

I own several paddles. But I believe spanking is for consensual adults only :P

[Dixiebelle]

When I was trying to be a fundie, I was a charter member of Elizabeth's forum. It was called "A trip to the woodshed" back then. She changed it because she was attracting a lot of "satanic attacks" in the form of people who wanted to report her to CPS. It was decided to use the term "godly tomatoes" because of her "tomato staking" technique. At that time she also locked the forum up tight, you had to have a referral to get in. There was also a private forum for the most trusted members, of which I was one. I was banned from the board a few years ago. Members of the private forum were gossiping about a former member and I called them out on it. By that it was assumed that I was telling the former member what was posted in private, even though I was not and did not even know the woman. They were doing the typical fundie hypocritical gossip in the name of "prayer request", I thought it was wrong, and I told them so. So they voted me of the island. :naughty:

I never could get into that mindset although I really, really tried and thought I was a horrible person that God must really hate for not being able to. I can not even believe I really fell for that shit and I actually have apologized to my older kids for it (luckily the younger ones were unaffected). :oops:

They really are disgusting.

[Emme]

There have been several stories about school paddlings lately. The most recent girl made the rounds on several TV shows. She was paddled by a male principal and her mom was horrified about the bruises. The mom had given her consent and really was just made that a male had done it when the rules dictate that a female should punish females. I think it was on Ricki Lake and of course half the audience was pro spanking, because you know, kids today are brats because they aren't spanked.

The stuff from the tomato lady and her friends is disgusting. Sadly, its not the worst thing I have read. Before I ever joined this forum my fundie friend posted an article by a pastor who broke the will of his, I want to say 13 or 18 month old child who would not accept dinner from him. He wanted his mommy. The man kept him in a crib for like 2 DAYS only changing him and to ask him "are you ready to accept the bread from me now?" leaving the kid to scream all of this time. The baby finally was broken. It was so upsetting, I still think about it. My friend lost friends for even posting it. She said she would not do that, but that it was a BEAUTIFUL example of our sinful natures and how children must be trained. I'll see if I can find it so you all can be traumatized too.

This makes me want to go rock back and forth in a corner and sob for that child. W. T. F.

[JesusFightClub]

I don't get that at all. It's disgusting.

Small and Smaller are sometimes having a mood and they say "Noooo, want Daddy!" or "Noooo, want Uncle!" or "Noooo, not you, want Grandma!" or "Want Auntie JFC!" or "Want Papa!" That's not bad, they have a right to choose who they feel comfortable with in that moment. We try to find the adult they are asking for. As in later life we try to model the idea that they should be with people they feel safe and relaxed with and it's OK not to feel comfortable in a situation.

Another thing is kisses. Sometimes they don't want to kiss anyone goodnight, they're tired and fractious and just want to go to bed. In our family we say "OK, no kisses if you don't want to". Very often they change their minds and come through for kisses but it's important THEY decide. It's their bodies and their decision. If they don't feel like it, no punishment, they're saying in childish language that they don't feel happy to do it and we want to emphasise it's always their pick. Nobody should ever have to kiss someone or hug someone if they don't feel good about it.

I can't imagine hitting either of them for that. The thought fills me with horror. We're trying to bring them up to decide their own parameters. Discipline is a different thing, but if you don't want to take food from someone you don't have to, if you don't want to kiss or hug someone you DEFINITELY don't have to, if you want someone to help you to the loo or help you with various things, you can choose.

Fundies are so weird.

[wild little fox]

This kind of parenting is why I'm so fucked up!

[Deleted05]

But when it was her turn, our second oldest child said, "Come" instead of "Coming". Dad explained again that he wanted to hear, "Coming" and had them all try again. They all got it exactly right except again, our four-year-old daughter. This time she said, "I come." Dad explained it again. The next time she said, "I'm coming". She couldn't seem to get it right... So Dad got out the paddle. He did not get angry. He simply determined to correct the problem. He spanked her (one firm swat on the posterior, over her clothes), and then told her to try again. It took her six more tries (and six swats with the paddle) before she finally decided to obey and say, "Coming."

Four years old. I just can't even...

I sat with one of the little four-year-olds on my lap at church a few weeks ago, listening to her tell me about how she wanted a dolly and a hat for Christmas, and about leaving out milk and cookies, and carrots for Santa's reindeer. And maybe I only understood about half of what she said, but to beat her for it?!

Gah. :angry-banghead: I'm going to bed. I can't handle this kind of insane tonight. That poor little baby.

[RosyDaisy]

Is it just me or is it more sinister that the father wasn't angry when he paddled her?

[wild little fox]

Weird! The wee girl was right in saying "I'm coming" not just "Coming". And for correct English she is hit with a stick?

How can these children know what is right and what is wrong when they're penalised for doing the right thing and the wrong thing? They will end up with a chaotic mindset where they try to anticipate daddy's wishes, cringing all the while waiting for the next blow. They won't be able to decide correct behaviour for themselves.

I'm one who was smacked as a kid, like Aisling says there was no use of this thing which looks like a cricket bat (horrific). My mum would give me a smack on the (fully clothed) arse. I don't at all feel abused by it but I would not carry it on and smack the weans nowadays. Nowadays we understand better about such things and it's not the best method to use. Small and Smaller can get pretty rambunctious and my brother believes in smacking so he will very occasionally smack them (again fully clothed, on the bum) but I'm not raising a hand. FJ taught me that at least!

Exactly. At the very least they will be broken people with no sense of identity, become people pleasers and end up with partners who are cruel and abuse them because they have little self worth. They might also grow up to be abusers themselves.

[Georgiana]

But when it was her turn, our second oldest child said, "Come" instead of "Coming". Dad explained again that he wanted to hear, "Coming" and had them all try again. They all got it exactly right except again, our four-year-old daughter. This time she said, "I come." Dad explained it again. The next time she said, "I'm coming". She couldn't seem to get it right... So Dad got out the paddle. He did not get angry. He simply determined to correct the problem. He spanked her (one firm swat on the posterior, over her clothes), and then told her to try again. It took her six more tries (and six swats with the paddle) before she finally decided to obey and say, "Coming."

This guy is a fucking moron.

First, speech errors like this are COMMON in small children, and have everything to do with linguistic development and NOT will or intent.

Second, he is making a minute grammatical distinction with little to no logic to back it up. I can guarantee you that child did not understand what he wanted from her. A four year old is far to young to understand this kind of abstract hair splitting, their cognition isn't to that level yet.

Someone should take this guy in a room and expose him to a second language. Then, ask him questions, and every time he makes a minute mistake, punch him in the face.

[RachelB]

I don't get that at all. It's disgusting.

Small and Smaller are sometimes having a mood and they say "Noooo, want Daddy!" or "Noooo, want Uncle!" or "Noooo, not you, want Grandma!" or "Want Auntie JFC!" or "Want Papa!" That's not bad, they have a right to choose who they feel comfortable with in that moment. We try to find the adult they are asking for. As in later life we try to model the idea that they should be with people they feel safe and relaxed with and it's OK not to feel comfortable in a situation.

Another thing is kisses. Sometimes they don't want to kiss anyone goodnight, they're tired and fractious and just want to go to bed. In our family we say "OK, no kisses if you don't want to". Very often they change their minds and come through for kisses but it's important THEY decide. It's their bodies and their decision. If they don't feel like it, no punishment, they're saying in childish language that they don't feel happy to do it and we want to emphasise it's always their pick. Nobody should ever have to kiss someone or hug someone if they don't feel good about it.

I can't imagine hitting either of them for that. The thought fills me with horror. We're trying to bring them up to decide their own parameters. Discipline is a different thing, but if you don't want to take food from someone you don't have to, if you don't want to kiss or hug someone you DEFINITELY don't have to, if you want someone to help you to the loo or help you with various things, you can choose.

Fundies are so weird.

Thank you for that, seriously. Personal boundaries are a big deal, and easier to learn when young.

[CrazySister]

This guy is a fucking moron.

First, speech errors like this are COMMON in small children, and have everything to do with linguistic development and NOT will or intent.

Second, he is making a minute grammatical distinction with little to no logic to back it up. I can guarantee you that child did not understand what he wanted from her. A four year old is far to young to understand this kind of abstract hair splitting, their cognition isn't to that level yet.

Someone should take this guy in a room and expose him to a second language. Then, ask him questions, and every time he makes a minute mistake, punch him in the face.

This is exactly why this kind of "parenting" pisses me off so much! They're treating their kids in a way they themselves would never tolerate from another person. How do these people justify this kind of sick, twisted developmentally INappropriate expectations and sleep at night?! :angry-screaming: :angry-fire:

[clone]

You know, this thread title and its content remind of the Gor Series by John Norman, and the short parody of his books, Houseplants of Gor: http://www.rdrop.com/~wyvern/data/houseplants.html. The methods used in both societies are extremely similar.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

You know, this thread title and its content remind of the Gor Series by John Norman, and the short parody of his books, Houseplants of Gor: http://www.rdrop.com/~wyvern/data/houseplants.html. The methods used in both societies are extremely similar.

:clap: :lol: I loved that. Oh, Goreans.

[GiggleOfGirls]

Is it just me or is it more sinister that the father wasn't angry when he paddled her?

It's definitely not just you. It's horrific either way, but the cold, calculating method seems much more sinister to me too :evil:

[NotALoserLikeYou]

My 5yo keeps saying Oma gangham style, and I keep trying to tell her it's oppa. It's like she's purposely defying me. Should I beat her?