Raising Godly Tomatoes

[debrand]

raisinggodlytomatoes.com/ch08.php

I know that we discussed this blog on the old forum but I saw it recommended on Making Home blogspot, so I thought I'd bring it up again.

Beware of the popular definition of spanking as "hitting", deceptively implying child abuse when proper spanking is nothing of the sort.

She does not explain why spanking is not hitting. It surprises me that so many spanking advocates are uncomfortable using the word, hit. Later she writes:

Any child can tell the difference between a just spanking and hitting. The simple, all-essential difference between hitting and spanking is this: Hitting is done in anger and it�s goal is injury and retribution. Spanking should never be done in anger, should never injure, and has the goal of training for the good of the child.

So, basically she gets to make up her own definition of a word.

Meanwhile, as fewer parents dare to be politically incorrect and spank, the rate of violent crime in our country has exploded -- especially the rate of juvenile violence against parents. Could there be a connection?

From what I understand, the opposite has occurred. Crime rates among juveniles has gone down.

The "Ritual Spanking" taught in some Christian parenting circles entails taking the offending child and a Bible to a separate room every time a spanking is needed. The child is given a talk, spanked a specific number of times or until he cries, then required to voice a formal apology. The ritual ends with a religious speech and a prayer.

I'm glad that she doesn't advocate this.

There is no need to exit to a separate room. Spanking young children in front of siblings causes little, if any, embarrassment. Small children are not easily embarrassed. If they are slightly embarrassed, it may deter the misbehavior that led to the spanking. Spanking in front of siblings will also encourage said siblings not to commit the same offense.

Spank without explanatory or apologetic lecture

Um...this attitude might be worse.

[debrand]

raisinggodlytomatoes.com/ch08.php

The Child Who Resists

Betty: My six-year-old son refuses to receive his spankings obediently. He knows that if he does not humbly submit to one swat, he will receive another. Yet he fights me and will not turn around to receive his spanking. I don't want to misdirect the swat because of his twisting, nor do I want to have to pin him to the floor to get the job done. I wind up becoming angry about all of this and that's wrong.

Elizabeth: When he needs a spanking, tell him so. If he protests, tell him to be quiet. If he continues, tell him he will now receive another swat for arguing. Then tell him to bend over, place his hands on a chair, and assume "the position".

If he still refuses, argues, or writhes about, calmly tell him that you will not wrestle with him, but that he will not be going anywhere or doing anything until he submits to the number of swats you decide that he needs. Warn him that the more he rebels, the more he will be asking for discipline. Then pull up a chair and wait. Restrain him only if needed to prevent him from running off. Outlast him as you would for any other misbehavior. Some �corner time� may speed up the process.

Eventually he will weary of crying, whining, and falling on the floor. When you sense this approaching surrender, ask him if he is ready to obey. If he assents, tell him to place his hands on the chair and bend over so you don't miss your target. Be sure he understands that he is not to move or take his hands off the chair until you are finished, and then only when you give him permission. Let him know that if he disobeys, he will receive another swat. If he still moves after the first swat, don't wrestle with him. Go back to square one and start over. Outlast until he submits properly to one or two single swats.

Give one swat at a time with a pause in between. Be patient and don�t rush. A spanking should be a calm, controlled affair, not a wild free-for-all. Usually only a relatively short period of time, and only a total of two or three swats, will be required before a resisting child gives in and obeys. If this is the first time you�ve tried this, it will take longer.

Stop when he is submitting properly. If you give too many swats, or give them too rapidly, he will be far more likely to keep resisting. Don't engage in a wrestling match when spanking

.

[Abi]

Dear God.

Posters like this make me so frigging angry :evil:

[Coconut Flan]

Chilling to think people do this so cold bloodedly and recommend it to others.

Maybe not so stange that my fundie-lite neighbors had the kids that hit each other and other kids the most of any young kids on the street.

[Sobeknofret]

I spanked my son exactly once. I felt so sick over one swat on a jean covered butt, I never did it again. I cannot imagine a carefully planned and executed spanking like this. This is barbaric. :(

[fundielicious]

In my senior year bible class in private school, we had the 'parenting' unit in class, and the lesson on discipline was very much like this. I remember at the time it seemed like a very logical method of doling out a spanking; rules/expectations were set up, multiple verbal warnings were given, then time out, then a spanking if bad behavior continued. As a parent now, the one thing that stands out for me is how patient his whole method was, and it makes me wonder if he was actually able to go through all the steps before striking his kids, or if he took shortcuts and spanked in anger.

[flojo]

I vaguely remember a thread to them before, but I think it was a really, really old one.

I was highly conservative evangelical a few years back. I was reading a few fundie blogs and really lapping it up. I came across RGT and read every article on the site, and it was probably one of the things that caused me to not go down the fundie path - I couldn't bear the constant hitting of infants, nor the total, total isolation that Elizabeth proposes.

[slickcat79]

If he still refuses, argues, or writhes about, calmly tell him that you will not wrestle with him, but that he will not be going anywhere or doing anything until he submits to the number of swats you decide that he needs. Warn him that the more he rebels, the more he will be asking for discipline. Then pull up a chair and wait. Restrain him only if needed to prevent him from running off. Outlast him as you would for any other misbehavior. Some �corner time� may speed up the process.

If she has to do all of this, why does she need to spank at all? Well, spanking the kid only makes him more disobedient and out of control. Meanwhile, administering warnings, outlasting his bad behavior, and sending him to time-out as needed allows him to calm down enough to understand his discipline. So which of these things would make more sense as a training tool? So freaking stupid :roll:

[latraviata]

I spanked my son exactly once. I felt so sick over one swat on a jean covered butt, I never did it again. I cannot imagine a carefully planned and executed spanking like this. This is barbaric. :(

A planned and executed spanking worries me more than a spontanious outburst because parents are people too.

Not that I approve of any spanking or corporal punishment.

[doggie]

we always see how not to spank in anger but it seems we see so much anger in this.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Just reading through this site...I dont think fundies love their kids at all.

She woke up her four year old up to spank her because she didnt put her shoes or book away properly before she went to bed.

Returning downstairs, I noticed the book, not on the shelf, but on the fireplace hearth next to the shelf. I thought perhaps she just misunderstood or forgot exactly what I'd told her. Then I noticed the shoes, setting neatly outside the closet door, not inside. That�s when it struck me that she had not been obeying me with her whole heart. She had tried to get away with something -- to only partially comply with my requests. She had intentionally misplaced those items in a way that she thought would not get her into trouble. Well �almost� obeying is not obeying at all. I hated to do it, but I woke her up, spanked her, told her flatly that she had disobeyed, and I made her "fix" each one of her little "mistakes."

The dad also gave the kid a spanking for saying "I come" or "Im coming" instead of "coming" when he called her.

But when it was her turn, our second oldest child said, "Come" instead of "Coming". Dad explained again that he wanted to hear, "Coming" and had them all try again. They all got it exactly right except again, our four-year-old daughter. This time she said, "I come." Dad explained it again. The next time she said, "I'm coming". She couldn't seem to get it right... So Dad got out the paddle. He did not get angry. He simply determined to correct the problem. He spanked her (one firm swat on the posterior, over her clothes), and then told her to try again. It took her six more tries (and six swats with the paddle) before she finally decided to obey and say, "Coming."

She is four, it doesnt really matter what they say to show theyre coming when you call them, or even if they say anything at all, as long as they do what you asked them to.

[Zoom]

Just reading through this site...I dont think fundies love their kids at all.

She woke up her four year old up to spank her because she didnt put her shoes or book away properly before she went to bed.

The dad also gave the kid a spanking for saying "I come" or "Im coming" instead of "coming" when he called her.

She is four, it doesnt really matter what they say to show theyre coming when you call them, or even if they say anything at all, as long as they do what you asked them to.

Sounds like The Giver where precision of language is required or you get a swat

[slickcat79]

The dad also gave the kid a spanking for saying "I come" or "Im coming" instead of "coming" when he called her.

She is four, it doesnt really matter what they say to show theyre coming when you call them, or even if they say anything at all, as long as they do what you asked them to.

That's fucking ridiculous. How could it possibly make a difference if the kid said "coming" or "I'm coming". You'd think they'd appreciate her using complete sentences :?

[Muriel]

Those people are child abusers - Plain and simple- They don't deserve to be parents :(

[Aisling]

What a bunch of sick fucks. Who the hell thumps a four year old for not being word perfect?

With a paddle. Wtf. I'm 100% anti-smacking anyway but for some reason I find hitting the kid with an implement more....icky? than using the hand. Apart from the fact it's probably going to hurt more, IMO there's a different thought process between someone giving their kid an occasional swat round the back of the legs because they don't know any better, and someone who very deliberately goes and lifts their specific hitting instrument to whack their kid with on a regular basis.

Also the description of a six year old boy not 'turning around' to 'receive his spanking' is just creepy and ick. It makes me feel uncomfortable tbh.

[chaotic life]

Elizabeth is a vile monstrous excuse of a mother. She's a close personal friend of Michael Pearl who decided that the only real flaw with his system is that a WOMAN should be telling mothers how to properly beat their children, not a man.

She was chased off breastfeeding.com where she was actively recruiting as she was building her book and website for a vile incident where she spent about 36 hours openly debating the spanking issue before using her sick child as an example of why first time obedience, garnered through harsh spanking was so good. She had called her son to her as he began to vomit and managed to keep him from vomiting all over her floor and forcing her to clean it up. And while she had been debating everyone, she had kept him on a towel in the bathroom next to the toilet where he was only permitted to vomit into the toilet or clean it up himself. And he did all of this without complaint, even while sick because she had properly trained him to obey her.....versus being a mother and tending to her sick child instead of treating him like a puppy dog so she could debate and garner an audience to make money off her endeavors.

Vile woman. She used to have a habit of wooing young Christian mothers on secular message boards by speaking sweetly about their faith and then snapping like a Venus flytrap at a point where she had torn them down so much they didn't trust their own ability to make decision and still be a "Good Christian" and simply took her assessment as the holy grail. I had at least two personal friends I watched her entrapment on, both were good, gentle mothers before her and became abusers in trying to follow her harsh "right way."

I *think* she no longer trolls because they come to her instead. However, I haven't been in the same message boards as that witch in years and years at this point.

[Conuly]

How could it possibly make a difference if the kid said "coming" or "I'm coming".

But she was deliberately and maliciously acting against the wishes of her control freak parents. Isn't that obvious?

As far as the vomit story goes, that is the most disgusting thing I've read in a while. Instead of keeping the kid in the bathroom, why not keep a bucket with the kid like a normal, loving mother? Poor baby. I just want to take that kid and hug him and love him and let him be a kid instead of a highly trained robot.

[Aisling]

I feel the need to elaborate on the paddle issue. I actually had to google to see what a paddle was.

It's this, right?

I have never seen or heard of this being used in the UK/Ireland. I've heard of the slipper and the belt as handy hitting utensils, but it's usually when my Grandad is telling me all about his nutcase mother.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but people actually make these to hit kids with? They are, so to speak, spanking-specific?

[celestial]

:cry: What horrible people. :evil:

[Aisling]

Elizabeth is a vile monstrous excuse of a mother. She's a close personal friend of Michael Pearl who decided that the only real flaw with his system is that a WOMAN should be telling mothers how to properly beat their children, not a man.

She was chased off breastfeeding.com where she was actively recruiting as she was building her book and website for a vile incident where she spent about 36 hours openly debating the spanking issue before using her sick child as an example of why first time obedience, garnered through harsh spanking was so good. She had called her son to her as he began to vomit and managed to keep him from vomiting all over her floor and forcing her to clean it up. And while she had been debating everyone, she had kept him on a towel in the bathroom next to the toilet where he was only permitted to vomit into the toilet or clean it up himself. And he did all of this without complaint, even while sick because she had properly trained him to obey her.....versus being a mother and tending to her sick child instead of treating him like a puppy dog so she could debate and garner an audience to make money off her endeavors.

Vile woman. She used to have a habit of wooing young Christian mothers on secular message boards by speaking sweetly about their faith and then snapping like a Venus flytrap at a point where she had torn them down so much they didn't trust their own ability to make decision and still be a "Good Christian" and simply took her assessment as the holy grail. I had at least two personal friends I watched her entrapment on, both were good, gentle mothers before her and became abusers in trying to follow her harsh "right way."

I *think* she no longer trolls because they come to her instead. However, I haven't been in the same message boards as that witch in years and years at this point.

That is horrible. Poor kid:(

Just don't understand people at times. There's just something extra sick about them disguising it as love.

[celestial]

I feel the need to elaborate on the paddle issue. I actually had to google to see what a paddle was.

It's this, right?

I have never seen or heard of this being used in the UK/Ireland. I've heard of the slipper and the belt as handy hitting utensils, but it's usually when my Grandad is telling me all about his nutcase mother.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but people actually make these to hit kids with? They are, so to speak, spanking-specific?

Yes, that's a paddle. I've certainly never been hit by one, and know only one friend who was when we were growing up, but apparently they are very common in some parts of the USA.

[Peas n carrots]

So.fucked.up. These people are looking for any excuse to beat their kids. That 4 yo did NOTHING wrong even. Maybe she has some speech issues or learning difficulties.

I place my odds on those kids loathing their parents when they at older.

As to the paddle, I've never seen one myself in person that a parent used on a child. But paddling is a common form of hazing at fraternity houses at American universities.

[Muriel]

Yes, that's a paddle. I've certainly never been hit by one, and know only one friend who was when we were growing up, but apparently they are very common in some parts of the USA.

In France this kind of paddles were used for beating the laundry during the washing process, before the appearance of washing machines... Hitting someone with one is just pure, horrible violence

[Dinorah]

A planned and executed spanking worries me more than a spontanious outburst because parents are people too.

Not that I approve of any spanking or corporal punishment.

Agree. I don't get it when pro-spanking people say "but we don't hit in anger" to justify themselves. I find the idea of a swat given in frustration or because, say, the child has done something dangerous, much less disturbing than the calm spanking where it's all like "mommy/daddy is going to spank you now because you ran in a busy road".

I also don't get the idea that squirming or yelling from the spanking are "rebellion", uh, those are instinctive reactions to pain.

[AddieBelle]

Some needs to call CPS on her. The incident with the four year old is beyond disgusting. I would like to hit her with a paddle.