More doublespeak from Kelly (GC)

[kaetrin]

http://www.generationcedar.com/main/201 ... claus.html

She doesn't think Santa is evil, she just thinks parents who tell their kids about Santa should consider the possibility that they are lying hypocrites and abominations to the Lord.

[mkitten]

http://www.generationcedar.com/main/2012/11/christmas-confessions-should-we-lie-to-our-kids-about-santa-claus.html

She doesn't think Santa is evil, she just thinks parents who tell their kids about Santa should consider the possibility that they are lying hypocrites and abominations to the Lord.

Ummmmm.... There is so much fail in this statement that I can't even... :headdesk:

[ILoveJellybeans]

I see Santa as more as an exercise in critical thinking. It teaches kids logic and not to unquestioningly believe everything that authority figures tell them to. Also its all a bit of fun.

I cant see fundies agreeing with me though.

[kaetrin]

Perhaps my paraphrase was uncharitable. Here's what she actually said:

To me, that’s the crux; not that “Santa is evilâ€, but that “Santa isn’t real†and as a parent who teaches my children that “a lying tongue in an abomination to the Lord†I have to be consistent.

[Arete]

By the same token, the earth being created in 6 days is also not real or the truth, but she doesn't mind teaching her kids THAT garbage. :roll: Where does her lying tongue fit in there?

If Santa is your biggest moral dilemma in how you are raising your kids, you are doing it wrong.

Edited to ask a question.

[mirele]

By the same token, the earth being created in 6 days is also not real or the truth, but she doesn't mind teaching her kids THAT garbage. :roll:

If Santa is your biggest moral dilemma in how you are raising your kids, you are doing it wrong.

This. How are you going to feel, Kelly, when your kids find out you were lying to them about creationism or some other -ism you feel impressed to force upon them in the name of Jeebus (not to be confused with that guy in the Gospels)?

[Effie]

By the same token, the earth being created in 6 days is also not real or the truth, but she doesn't mind teaching her kids THAT garbage. :roll: Where does her lying tongue fit in there?

Hahaha! Yes, I could come up with a long list of Kelly's lies: Socialism is evil! Homosexuals and other such sodomites want to ruin the sanctity of our marriage! The husband must provide(eventhough the wife Kelly is the only one in the family who has a college degree and probably would earn more than her husband who has several different part jobs here and there). Oh and if you wear a dress you will be treated with respect because you have chosen to honour your feminity. By the way, we must set ourselves apart from the world in everything we do. That means no non-godly music from those rebellious and sinful heathens out there! That also means we must limit our children's reading lists even more! No no, I will only let Bria read books from an approved world- view .

[RosyDaisy]

Kelly is just a hateful, self-righteous, judgmental bitch...period.

[Miggy]

What I don't understand with all the anti-Santa fundies is that SANTA WAS REAL! Ok, he wasn't the man in the big red suit we see today but Saint Nicholas is a person from history. He was a Greek who was born around 270 and died in 343.

I understand people wanting to keep Christmas religious and not wanting to do the whole "man comes down the chimney in the middle of the night". Technically, it is a lie. However, telling your kids Santa isn't real is a lie too.

I asked several fundy families last year why they lie to their children and say Santa isn't real. Why do they not teach their children about the real person? Study what he did? Look at the role of Saints in Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism? Funny, but none replied to me. (I worded the letter really carefully so that it wouldn't sound aggressive or offensive. I didn't genuinely want to hear their answers!) Guess I should try again this year and include Kelly on my list of people to email.

[Effie]

Yes Miggy, please do that. Haha that would be awesome. :lol:

[GolightlyGrrl]

Yes Miggy, please do that. Haha that would be awesome. :lol:

I agree. Miggy should leave a comment at Kelly's blog with a notable on-line link on Santa's realness. But Kelly will probably accuse Miggy of being a Communist or some stupid Kelly-like shit.

Edited due to riffle.

[Sobeknofret]

Oh man, Lori Alexander replied,

When my children were young, over 20 years ago, our pastor encouraged us to celebrate Christmas but throw out Santa. Have it revolve around Jesus instead. Our very favorite video of them was when we went home and told them there was no Santa. Priceless!!!

I can't even imagine. :evil: Getting such a thrill from crushing their fantasies is abominable. Absolutely horrendous.

[emmyfair]

Oh man, Lori Alexander replied,

I can't even imagine. :evil: Getting such a thrill from crushing their fantasies is abominable. Absolutely horrendous.

Their favorite video of their kids is crushing their dreams and ruining their hopes?!? :( I really think I'm going to throw up!

[Effie]

Hehe I commented something earlier today and now it's gone... I basically wrote that we shouldn't lie to our children and definitely not about the earth just being 6000 years old. Of course she disliked hearing that... Tell me, has Kelly taught her children something other than lies?

[GolightlyGrrl]

Hehe I commented something earlier today and now it's gone... I basically wrote that we shouldn't lie to our children and definitely not about the earth just being 6000 years old. Of course she disliked hearing that... Tell me, has Kelly taught her children something other than lies?

Yes, I'm sure she's taught them how to grift and take advantage of the generosity of others without ever giving back or paying it forward.

[mockingbird]

I don't see the harm in Santa. Imaginative play is part of childhood development, and I don't think encouraging that is lying. Most kids eventually figure out that Santa isn't real, just like their imaginary friends aren't real and their stuffed animals aren't alive, and come out unharmed or without feeling lied to.

The concept of lying about Santa correlating to lying about religion is interesting. #1. If you are so concerned how impossible your religion is to believe in and is therefore so similar to Santa, does that mean you think your religion is a lie? I definitely see the comparison (especially if you were to take Bible stories literally - and I know seeing religious stories as impossible to believe is why some people convert or become atheists)... but I think if you want to pass down your religion, you just present it as fact and when your kids are older that means you treat it differently than Santa. Surely God would bring your kids to the truth and help them realize it's the truth?

#2. Taking Santa away is not going to stop kids from questioning their beliefs, nor is having Santa going to be the only thing that makes your kids question. Most people are going to question their beliefs at some point in their lives and that is a good thing.

Learning about St. Nicholas was exactly how Santa was treated at my Catholic elementary school. While we were learning about him on St. Nicholas Day, we put our shoes outside the door for Santa to come fill up with candy and then Santa visited the classroom. One of the older kids got to play Santa so it came full circle. Looking back I think that was a great way to balance religion and more secular aspects of Christmas. Of course, saints are ebil Catholics and fundies have no sense of balance.

And Kelly... "Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies!"

[ILoveJellybeans]

Oh man, Lori Alexander replied,

I can't even imagine. :evil: Getting such a thrill from crushing their fantasies is abominable. Absolutely horrendous.

That is evil. Why would someones favourite video be of their toddlers being told there is no Santa?

[dairyfreelife]

That is evil. Why would someones favourite video be of their toddlers being told there is no Santa?

Why would they videotape that? I wonder how the children reacted to the news. My parents did not videotape our discoveries that Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy were not real. I figured out between the ages of 5-7 that they were not real. I had been questioning the idea and then asked my parents straightforward if they were real? My parents told me no. My siblings were a bit older. Once children are old enough to start questioning the existence, most parents will admit it was just all in fun and that they were in fact Santa, the Bunny and Fairy.

It's also why I don't believe in five year olds being able to be "saved" or that they are fully aware of the religion. Five year olds usually still believe that a man who lives in the North Pole with toy-making elves will land on their roof on a sleigh pulled by reindeer, one with a bright red nose, and he will slide down their chimney to give them toys on Christmas Eve. Five year olds believe there are 100s of hours in a day. Five year olds think babies come out of the belly button. Five year olds think a year is "forever". Five year olds believe almost anything you tell them is true. So yeah, saying your five year old is saved because you told him or her they needed to do so to get to the mythical land called Heaven one day and totally understands the concept of "god" and religion and what they are actually doing, sure I believe you. :roll:

[Bloo]

My mom did NOT want to give up doing Santa for my brother and I. When I was ten and he was eight, we basically cornered Mom into admitting the truth. She cried, insisted "he's real in our hearts," and made us all listen to the Polar Express book on tape. This was in August.

I think I've found my mom's polar opposite.

[Sobeknofret]

My 9 year old is still a believer, although he's starting to ask questions. I suspect by next year he'll grow out of it, and I'll miss the fun of doing Sana stockings and reindeer notes with him. :(

[mockingbird]

My mom did NOT want to give up doing Santa for my brother and I. When I was ten and he was eight, we basically cornered Mom into admitting the truth. She cried, insisted "he's real in our hearts," and made us all listen to the Polar Express book on tape. This was in August.

I think I've found my mom's polar opposite.

:lol: I don't think my mom will ever admit that she knows my siblings and I know Santa isn't real. Even though my youngest sibling is 14, and we all wrap Santa presents and fill the stockings and eat the cookies we set out. She used to send me the "Yes Virginia" article when the hometown paper used to reprint it every December. If anyone tries to tell her that Santa isn't real, she says if we don't believe she won't give us the Santa presents. LOL

[Bloo]

:lol: I don't think my mom will ever admit that she knows my siblings and I know Santa isn't real. Even though my youngest sibling is 14, and we all wrap Santa presents and fill the stockings and eat the cookies we set out. She used to send me the "Yes Virginia" article when the hometown paper used to reprint it every December. If anyone tries to tell her that Santa isn't real, she says if we don't believe she won't give us the Santa presents. LOL

Haha, I think one year I called Mom's bluff on that. There were still Santa presents for me under the tree that year.

[Deleted03]

Perhaps my paraphrase was uncharitable. Here's what she actually said:

I can't believe I agree with her, but I do. I think Santa is teaching kids that lying is ok, that parents lie to you. It's just not my thing at all, I think there's a difference between religious beliefs, which are about faith and Santa, which an orchestrated lie.

And then you have those kids who tell other kids, and either as a parent you need to ask your kid to believe in what you say or to ask other kids to not tell those who still believe in it. No really I don't see personally anything good in the Santa thing at all. It might be useful to get kids to behave, but I would not use it.

[loveandwar]

:lol: I don't think my mom will ever admit that she knows my siblings and I know Santa isn't real. Even though my youngest sibling is 14, and we all wrap Santa presents and fill the stockings and eat the cookies we set out. She used to send me the "Yes Virginia" article when the hometown paper used to reprint it every December. If anyone tries to tell her that Santa isn't real, she says if we don't believe she won't give us the Santa presents. LOL

:lol: That's great!

My fundie-lite grandma told me that Santa wasn't real when I was about 4. Boy were my parents pissed!

I think Kelly just might be a younger, crazier version of my grandma. :?

[notsocommon]

My 9 year old is still a believer, although he's starting to ask questions. I suspect by next year he'll grow out of it, and I'll miss the fun of doing Sana stockings and reindeer notes with him. :(

Who says you can't still do Santa if they know he is not 'real?' My daughter figured it out last year, and we are still having fun with Santa! The elf even came back last night for another season of hijinks! It can still be a fun game.