More doublespeak from Kelly (GC)

[Sobeknofret]

Who says you can't still do Santa if they know he is not 'real?' My daughter figured it out last year, and we are still having fun with Santa! The elf even came back last night for another season of hijinks! It can still be a fun game.

Our version of your elf involves Santa's reindeer-- carrot scraps all over the living room, books for the kid with reindeer written inscriptions in the front covers, and I'm hoping to borrow a stencil for a deer hoof to put all over the porch this year. I have so much fun with the reindeer I think we'll keep them around for a few more years regardless :D

What does your elf do?

[lilith]

Haha, I think one year I called Mom's bluff on that. There were still Santa presents for me under the tree that year.

My parents insisted on doing Santa for my sister and me until we had children of our own they could do it for.

Which led to a few strange Christmases where Santa came to my sister's baby/ toddler and twenty something me, until I had a baby and finally got taken off the Santa list.

[Arete]

My dad and my uncle were a budding anarchist and a budding commie and would still scale the balconies of their aunts and uncles to slip into their apartments to deliver the presents for their much younger cousins and eat the sweets left out. They were acting for Greece's version of Santa Claus, Saint Basil. He delivers on New Year's Day. ;) They both shamefacedly admitted they loved doing it, even though they had both left organized religion at that point. The cousins never held it against them, and we didn't either when Dad happily kept up the tradition for us when we were small children. :D

[charmedjenny]

Why does Kelly lie and tell her children that Christmas is the celebration of Christ's birth. She Should be telling them all about how they are celebrating an ancient pagan holiday and that Jesus was born in sometime in the Spring.

[JesusFightClub]

A stupidity in her linked article is that anyone tells children that Santa is "omniscient". Don't use big words if you don't know what they mean.

Is Santa famed for knowing all the future Lottery numbers? Could Santa tell me when the socialist revolution will be? Can Santa inform one of the upcoming result of the Arsenal game?

Nope. Santa is supposed to know three things. What small children want, whether they have been naughty, and whether they've been nice.

This does not equate to omniscience.

[notsocommon]

Our version of your elf involves Santa's reindeer-- carrot scraps all over the living room, books for the kid with reindeer written inscriptions in the front covers, and I'm hoping to borrow a stencil for a deer hoof to put all over the porch this year. I have so much fun with the reindeer I think we'll keep them around for a few more years regardless :D

What does your elf do?

She showed up last night, drinking chocolate syrup straight from the container with a straw. This year the elf has a crush on shadow* I am told, so I am sure they will get into some trouble together!

Last year, she did things like TP'd the tree, dethroned the angel, drew all over a family pic (on the glass with dry erase marker) bungee jumped from the garland, tied herself to the ceiling fan and turned it on, fished in the fish tank, did snow angels in flour, ate my ice cream, and lots of other things. I had a few FB friends who eagerly awaited pics every morning of her naughtiness, lol.

Shadow http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_the_Hedgehog

[Hane]

When we lived in an apartment with a fireplace, after my daughter went to bed on Christmas Eve, we used to push the fireplace grille aside and make boot prints with ashes on the floor, coming out from the direction of the fireplace. We would have a fire earlier in the evening, then make a big deal out of making sure it went out and cooled down so Santa wouldn't get burned.

When I was about 7, I kind of figured out that Santa was "pretend," because my uncle filled the stockings in front of me and actually asked me which of the little toys I preferred. Not long after, a not-awfully-bright older kid arrogantly informed me that Santa wasn't real, but I still figured she was a douche for saying so out loud.

[BlueberryBird]

When I was around 6 or so, I suspected that my parents were the tooth fairy. I put my tooth I. An envelope and taped the bejesus out of it around the bed post to see if the tooth fairy could still magically come get it.

The tooth fairy didn't, so next night, I put the envelope under my pillow and got my $10 the next morning. This was quickly converted into a new Barbie doll that I'd been wanting.

This is a serious question: has anyone, anywhere ever known a kid who was pissed and scarred for life because mom and dad "lied" about Santa Claus? I mean really.. Kids like it when adults enter into their make believe worlds. Kids organically outgrow Santa, tooth fairy, etc, but all the fun memories of them remain.

Sometimes harmless fun really is just harmless fun!

[snarkbillie]

I was pretty upset, but I am not neurotypical. I think it's safe to say most "normal" kids won't care. I never told my kids Santa was real because I was so messed up over it, we do however still "play" Santa. I feel more comfortable with it that way and they seem to be having a grand time.

[emmyfair]

My three kids (6,3,2) are having a wonderful time with the idea of Santa. I haven't said if he is real or not, it's just part of the holiday. I honestly think, today, they are more thrilled with the candy canes I put out on the tree - sugar high at my house! Imho, this holiday is really for the little ones, and I fully intend to show my kids the time of their lives, as well as make charitable donations sans my name on my own. The can join me when they are older, without a change in the usual.

Kendull is a horrible mother. Thanks to her, her kids are going to hate charity. Good going, ubermom!

[linnea27]

I wouldn't say scarred for life, but I was pretty angry and cried for a while. I did think my parents were big fat hypocrites for getting mad at me for lying.

[Sobeknofret]

She showed up last night, drinking chocolate syrup straight from the container with a straw. This year the elf has a crush on shadow* I am told, so I am sure they will get into some trouble together!

Last year, she did things like TP'd the tree, dethroned the angel, drew all over a family pic (on the glass with dry erase marker) bungee jumped from the garland, tied herself to the ceiling fan and turned it on, fished in the fish tank, did snow angels in flour, ate my ice cream, and lots of other things. I had a few FB friends who eagerly awaited pics every morning of her naughtiness, lol.

Shadow http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_the_Hedgehog

This...is brilliant! I'd have been watching your fb feed for pics every day too! I particularly love the chocolate syrup with a straw-- if I thought I wouldn't get laughed at I might have a go at drinking it through a straw myself some days :oops: And my son is a big fan of Sonic the Hedgehog and his pals as well :)

[notsocommon]

http://pinterest.com/ is full of great elf ideas. We took some from there and came up wit some on our own.

I'd totally drink the syrup with a straw, too....too thick, but a quick squirt straight in the mouth when no one is looking works, too. ;)

[Closed Womb]

When I was around 6 or so, I suspected that my parents were the tooth fairy. I put my tooth I. An envelope and taped the bejesus out of it around the bed post to see if the tooth fairy could still magically come get it.

The tooth fairy didn't, so next night, I put the envelope under my pillow and got my $10 the next morning. This was quickly converted into a new Barbie doll that I'd been wanting.

This is a serious question: has anyone, anywhere ever known a kid who was pissed and scarred for life because mom and dad "lied" about Santa Claus? I mean really.. Kids like it when adults enter into their make believe worlds. Kids organically outgrow Santa, tooth fairy, etc, but all the fun memories of them remain.

Sometimes harmless fun really is just harmless fun!

I second that question. If there is such a person, I submit that it is someone like Abigail that enjoys being hurt and offended by people, especially her parents. I don't know anyone, personally, who was negatively impacted by this vicious, horrible fantasy lie.

I believed in Santa. I faked believing in Santa for a few extra years, because I got the "he won't come if you don't believe" response when I started asking questions. None of this scarred me. I think it provides and interesting insight into your child's development of critical thinking skills. Of course, such skills are unnecessary (and discouraged) in the fundie home.

[jenny_islander]

Perhaps my paraphrase was uncharitable. Here's what she actually said:

So why doesn't she tell them the story of the real St. Nicholas and explain why people give each other gifts in his name around Christmastime?

[J'ean Skirt]

My mom did NOT want to give up doing Santa for my brother and I. When I was ten and he was eight, we basically cornered Mom into admitting the truth. She cried, insisted "he's real in our hearts," and made us all listen to the Polar Express book on tape. This was in August.

I think I've found my mom's polar opposite.

My mom still "does" Santa and I'm 40+ and my brother is 35+. Her point of view is as long as she is celebrating Christmas there will be a Santa.

Of all my mom's quirks and issues, this is one I find charming and loving.

[Black Aliss]

The trouble with fundies is that they don't handle abstract concepts very well. You see, Santa IS real. He's not the guy in the cheap poly velvet suit and fake beard, he's the spirit of giving that is inside all of us. The Santa figure is just a symbol for something that can't be seen or touched. We are all Santa.

[salsa]

I was a little slow to catch on because there were several years a row (I was in 2nd, 3rd, & 4th grades) when we went on a family vacation over Christmas and New Year. When we left, the tree was empty and when we came back, it was FULL under the tree. Even in 4th grade when I was pretty sure it was a myth, I couldn't figure out how all the presents got under the tree when we were away. I asked my mom one time some years later how they did that (my mom wouldn't have asked a friend; that's not like her) and she said that they'd put out most of the presents the night before we left and on the morning of the trip, when the cab came to pick us up, they'd shoo us out whichever door would keep us from seeing the tree (we didn't have the same location for the tree every year). She also said that while my dad was helping the cabbie with our baggage and my sister and I were in the cab, she'd go back to lock the house and threw out some things at that time, too.

Fundies can be funny about these myths. I don't agree with them, but in a way, they have a point: we tell them Santa is real and the Easter bunny is real and now the elf on the shelf is real ... some have "leprechauns" on St. Patrick's day and when they figure out these aren't real then we expect them to continue to believe that God is real. ... In my case, exposure to the Santa-like myths (and Greek and Roman mythology and understanding of gods) made me not very insistent that not everything my parents told me was gospel (learned to think for myself) and made me pretty un-rigid about insisting that everybody believe exactly as I do. If you're a fundie, you've got to keep out any information that might influence any other thoughts from entering your children's heads.

*as an aside, what puzzles me is that fundie kids get into their teens and still don't seem to be thinking for themselves. Can someone be so sheltered and blanket trained as to train their brain not to mull things over?

[phoenissadido]

Another comment from the site:

I despise these people.

[slickcat79]

Another comment from the site:

I despise these people.

*pleasebetrolling*pleasebetrolling*pleasebetrolling...I hope...

[snarkbillie]

I second that question. If there is such a person, I submit that it is someone like Abigail that enjoys being hurt and offended by people, especially her parents. I don't know anyone, personally, who was negatively impacted by this vicious, horrible fantasy lie.

I believed in Santa. I faked believing in Santa for a few extra years, because I got the "he won't come if you don't believe" response when I started asking questions. None of this scarred me. I think it provides and interesting insight into your child's development of critical thinking skills. Of course, such skills are unnecessary (and discouraged) in the fundie home.

I feel like if you would have read the thread you would have seen that at least two people said they were upset when they found out. I don't, personally like being offended. Although I do realize this post probably makes it look like I do. I think it's just a really extreme thing to say "if someone doesn't feel exactly like I do something must be wrong with them!"

[dairyfreelife]

*pleasebetrolling*pleasebetrolling*pleasebetrolling...I hope...

I really hope so too. Otherwise, that makes me :cry: Why destroy your child's imagination and play? Life will destroy some of their dreams anyway, so let them dream. These same people whine about others making girls grow up too fast by clothes and televisions shows, yet they do it just as young by destroying all their children's dreams and play with giving them adult chores as play. Sweeping isn't play unless it's just copying the parent doing it and young children do that all the time. I want to believe it's a troll, but it wouldn't shock me if it wasn't.

[Miggy]

I went to Kelly's site intending to post a comment but, after reading all the comments already there, decided that it was time to apply that Proverb about not arguing with fools.

Renata??? Please tell me she isn't real. Other mothers ask her to tell her children to keep the truth about Santa secret but she won't let her children lie. I knew a fundy who use to do this. When her daughter was 8-9-10, she use to send her along the families lined up for Santa photos and get her to tell all the kids that Santa wasn't real and it was just their parents lying to them. The result: the little girl was hated by all the other kids. The few parents that had let their children play with her stopped it pretty quickly. It didn't help bring anyone to Christ and made Christians seem like a really nasty bunch of people. :(

[Turtle]

I second that question. If there is such a person, I submit that it is someone like Abigail that enjoys being hurt and offended by people, especially her parents. I don't know anyone, personally, who was negatively impacted by this vicious, horrible fantasy lie.

I believed in Santa. I faked believing in Santa for a few extra years, because I got the "he won't come if you don't believe" response when I started asking questions. None of this scarred me. I think it provides and interesting insight into your child's development of critical thinking skills. Of course, such skills are unnecessary (and discouraged) in the fundie home.

My sister was super pissed. I think it was because I knew for a few years before her. She felt lied to and tricked I guess.

My son was terrified of Santa in the mall when he was 3, so my husband told him that he was just a guy in a costume and it was pretend. I think my husband meant that particular guy was pretending but my son took it as the whole deal is pretend. So we have "Santa" but he knows it isn't real. I'm kinda glad it worked out that way because honestly I was a little squeamish about lying. I think it's the "be good because Santa is watching and you won't get presents" message that I don't care for.

[Black Aliss]

The trouble with fundies is that they don't handle abstract concepts very well. You see, Santa IS real. He's not the guy in the cheap poly velvet suit and fake beard, he's the spirit of giving that is inside all of us. The Santa figure is just a symbol for something that can't be seen or touched. We are all Santa.

ETA: This writer says it so much better than I did:

Santa, like all gods, demigods, myths and extra-normal beings, operates on the Gaiman principle. They are defined by the perception of humans to their existence. In short, he is as real as the belief in him is real. At various times in history he has been either a fully corporeal entity capable of magic and wonder in our reality, at others he has merely been a small voice inside our heads urging us to generosity and love in the cold of winter. He has been a saint, a shaman, a god, a cultural icon and a corporate mascot. He is more or less all of these things at once.

You'll never find an element in the periodic table called "hope," or "love," or "charity." Yet those things are as real as hydrogen despite not being measured by any way known to science, and so is Santa Claus.

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/artattack ... ldrens.php