More doublespeak from Kelly (GC)

[mockingbird]

I wasn't mad about Santa, but I was mad about something similar. My parents and grandparents would often set up a stuffed animal "eating" next to me when I was a toddler/preschooler and then when I wasn't looking, eat the food the stuffed animal was supposed to be eating and leave crumbs to show that the stuffed animal "ate". When I was probably 8 or 9 someone mentioned how funny it was that I used to believe that and I was really mad that they admitted it wasn't real... I knew it wasn't but I think I just wanted to hold onto the "magic" a little longer. (I'm sure it was funny to see my reactions to it, though!)

[Boogalou]

Another comment from the site:

I despise these people.

So she wants her daughters to be mommies and her sons to be... knights and knot tiers?

[ILoveJellybeans]

I think its sad theyre stifling their children's imagination like that. Yes, kids do like acting out real life scenarios, like having a toy kitchen and dolls and playing house like they see their mommy and daddy do, or dressing up and pretending to do real life jobs, but they also need to be allowed to have other options and play things that are imaginary as well.

[moodygirl86]

Funnily enough, our high school English teacher made us have that "should we lie to children" debate. We all had to weigh up the pros and cons and then each give our own opinions. Most of us had all worked it out for ourselves by about age six or seven anyway, and none of us felt particularly traumatised or lied to...It's just another example of fundies looking for issues where there aren't any, IMO.

[dairyfreelife]

*pleasebetrolling*pleasebetrolling*pleasebetrolling...I hope...

I just noticed the name on the comment and no, she's not a troll. babychaser.com

She's a real gem.

babychaser.com/2012/10/should-women-vote.html

I was listening to an audio of Doug Phillips called, “What’s a Girl to do: How to Wisely Invest Your Daughter’s Time†when he paused to talk about the 19th amendment. He said that it was at that time we stopped being a nation of families and became a nation of individuals (from my notes, so I’m not sure if it’s a direct quote or not). Now, he explained, we simply cancel each other out

Apparently some who believe women should not vote call it Biblical Patriarchy. One says this:

"In regards to a woman’s right to vote; if husband and wife are truly “one flesh†and the husband is doing his duty to represent the family to the wider community, then what PRACTICAL benefit does allowing women to vote provide? If husband and wife agree on an issue, then one has simply doubled the number of votes; but the result is the same. Women voting only makes a difference when the husband and wife disagree; a wife, who does not trust the judgment of her husband, can nullify his vote. Thus, the immediate consequence is to enshrine the will of the individual OVER the good of the family thus creating divisions WITHIN the family."

Our Worldview (what we think is the Biblical Worldview)

[snip]You see, even though I first learned there were those against the women’s right to vote earlier this year, is has been my position, along with my husband, for some time now that women should not have been given this right in the first place.

it is a sin to stand against and hinder my husband. Instead of abstaining, I will go to the polls this November the sixth and vote for whomever my husband tells me to vote for.

All I can say is that if it is right to honor our husbands and to help them, then God is honored by our submission to them. He is in control of all things, elections included, and I believe it is our responsibility, not to ensure an outcome, but to be faithful in which we are called.

[slickcat79]

I just noticed the name on the comment and no, she's not a troll. babychaser.com

She's a real gem.

babychaser.com/2012/10/should-women-vote.html

:doh: Considering the fact that most elections are won based on the number of votes, then doubling the amount of votes actually makes a significant difference. But hey, if they want to encourage the fundie drudges wives to not vote, I'm cool with that. I support their efforts to see that no crazy right-wingers ever make it into office again.

But seriously, why should all women be denied the right to vote because some of them don't want it? Doug Phillips is a tool.

[thekate]

So she wants her daughters to be mommies and her sons to be... knights and knot tiers?

Yeah, WTF does she expect her sons to grow up to be that uses swords? Now if she has said machetes, those would be really helpful for hunting anacondas in the Amazon.

[NurseNell]

The trouble with fundies is that they don't handle abstract concepts very well. You see, Santa IS real. He's not the guy in the cheap poly velvet suit and fake beard, he's the spirit of giving that is inside all of us. The Santa figure is just a symbol for something that can't be seen or touched. We are all Santa.

QFT

[Hane]

QFT

:clap: :clap: :clap:

So many kids I've known, on learning that Santa wasn't literally real, would do everything in their power to keep the magic going for their little brothers and sisters.

When my daughter was little, she knew darn well that the various stuffed bears in the house didn't literally sit down and write us all letters and attach them to the fridge with magnets, but there was no way in hell she was going to spoil everyone's fun.

[ems]

I don't see the harm in Santa. Imaginative play is part of childhood development, and I don't think encouraging that is lying. Most kids eventually figure out that Santa isn't real, just like their imaginary friends aren't real and their stuffed animals aren't alive, and come out unharmed or without feeling lied to.

The concept of lying about Santa correlating to lying about religion is interesting. #1. If you are so concerned how impossible your religion is to believe in and is therefore so similar to Santa, does that mean you think your religion is a lie? I definitely see the comparison (especially if you were to take Bible stories literally - and I know seeing religious stories as impossible to believe is why some people convert or become atheists)... but I think if you want to pass down your religion, you just present it as fact and when your kids are older that means you treat it differently than Santa. Surely God would bring your kids to the truth and help them realize it's the truth?

#2. Taking Santa away is not going to stop kids from questioning their beliefs, nor is having Santa going to be the only thing that makes your kids question. Most people are going to question their beliefs at some point in their lives and that is a good thing.

Learning about St. Nicholas was exactly how Santa was treated at my Catholic elementary school. While we were learning about him on St. Nicholas Day, we put our shoes outside the door for Santa to come fill up with candy and then Santa visited the classroom. One of the older kids got to play Santa so it came full circle. Looking back I think that was a great way to balance religion and more secular aspects of Christmas. Of course, saints are ebil Catholics and fundies have no sense of balance.

And Kelly... "Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies!"

This entire post.

I never understood the "Santa is a lie!" outrage. No, Santa is a story based on a real person, and as you said, it's a part of normal childhood development to believe in things like Santa, fairies, imaginary friends, etc. And you then you grow up and it's a disappointing part of growing up to find out these things aren't "real," but normally it's not scarring for life.

[ems]

I feel like if you would have read the thread you would have seen that at least two people said they were upset when they found out. I don't, personally like being offended. Although I do realize this post probably makes it look like I do. I think it's just a really extreme thing to say "if someone doesn't feel exactly like I do something must be wrong with them!"

I think there is a difference, though, between being momentarily upset and being scarred for life as the fundies seem to think telling your children about Santa will do. Probably many children are upset/angry/disappointed/insert negative emotions when they find out Santa is not real. Most, though, do not develop lifelong issues trusting their parents because they lied about Santa. If you are actually scarred in the long-term over Santa....yeah..

And again, I would call it more "telling stories" than lying. For those who plan on not teaching your children about the existence of Santa, what will you do if they, being at the appropriate developmental stage, believe anyway? And this is coming from someone who does not have children of my own, but if you read young children fantasy stories, chances are that even if you try to explain that the stories are not real, they will believe some of it. And then eventually grow out of it.

[thekate]

Apparently telling your kids about Santa is a good thing because it helps their cognitive development.

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/ ... _kids.html

[starfish]

Kelly is just a kill-joy who wants to see everyone else miserable like she is.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Apparently telling your kids about Santa is a good thing because it helps their cognitive development.

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/ ... _kids.html

Fantastical stories foster a type of imaginative play that sparks creativity, social understanding and even—strange as it may sound—scientific reasoning.

Thats what I have always suspected :)

Probably why fundies dont like it, if they teach the kids scientific reasoning and logic, and teach them to question things even their parents say, they might realise that creationism is wrong or become atheists.