Miscarrying woman denied an abortion, dies (Ireland) MERGED

[formergothardite]

I am sure they could, but it was not "life threatening". Until it was. And then it was too late.

Abortion is allowed to save the life of the mother in Ireland, but there was no indication that this was a life-threatening issue until the woman was very ill. This is the America that the GOP wants for us.

This is what jericho doesn't want to accept. He wants to pretend that this would never happen, but it does and did in this case.

A woman's life is not important to people like this.

[PokaDot]

I don't recall that being the law when I lived there. I remember a few cases of ectopic pregnancies allowed to rupture the tube before the mother was allowed to get any kind of surgery, because to do otherwise was an abortion in the eyes of the law.

Situations like the ones listed in the article weighed heavily in my decision to move back to the US. I was getting married and did not want to be pregnant in a country that would let me die if something happened to the fetus. Granted, it's no longer illegal for a woman (from Ireland) to travel abroad for an abortion. But what if I didn't have that kind of time? Pre-eclampsia, placental abruption... anything can happen. Despite that no one attends church anymore, the Catholic church has a huge hold on the psyche and laws of that country. It's heart breaking.

According to this http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/no ... oman-death:

Ireland's Medical Council guidelines state that "abortion is illegal in Ireland except where there is a real and substantial risk to the life (as distinct from the health) of the mother".

So awesome that there is a distinction between life and health....not.

[BoomerLynn]

Unbelievable. Her poor husband. He had to sit there helplessly watching his wife die in agony and no one would help her. I can't imagine what that must be like. I had twins at 21 weeks pregnant (they did not survive). I went into labor due to an infection in my uterus and was told there was no way to save them. It was either they give me meds to stop the labor and they die in my womb, with a very high chance of the infection spreading to me and taking me with them; or they let the labor happen and my babies die in my arms. After the first twin was born, my labor stalled. Not long after I became feverish and shaky. The infection had started spreading to me. The docs immediately gave me pitocin and and antibiotics and within a few hours twin 2 was born. And this was at a Catholic Hospital. The staff there was amazing and gave me wonderful care. That poor woman deserved the same type of care I received and instead died a completely unneccessary (and likely painful) death. Two lives were lost that day when it could have been only one. All in the name of being "pro-life." They should just call it what it is: pro-fetus. After all, women are just the incubators. :angry-cussingblack:

[BravaAmica]

According to this http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/no ... oman-death:

So awesome that there is a distinction between life and health....not.

Ahh, okay, thank you. Still an awful attitude, though, Distinction between health and life of the mother.

[alysee]

As a pregnant woman I can't imagine being treated this way, and then end up dead because of religion/stupidity/ignorance. It makes my heart ache for the husband and the ladies family. Just sad and tragic and needless.

[Tanaqui]

Savita [a Hindu] said: ‘I am neither Irish nor Catholic’ but they said there was nothing they could do.

I can't get this quote out of my head. How terrifying for her, how hideous to be held hostage by a religious belief that you don't even subscribe to. That poor, poor woman and her heart-broken husband. How senseless and cruel.

[MonkeyMomma]

I can't get this quote out of my head. How terrifying for her, how hideous to be held hostage by a religious belief that you don't even subscribe to. That poor, poor woman and her heart-broken husband. How senseless and cruel.

This is what the American Right wants for us over here, too. It's flat out terrifying.

[Tanaqui]

This is what the American Right wants for us over here, too. It's flat out terrifying.

I know, I'm from Texas and I've been a heathen since I was six. I know what they're like over there. I had my absentee ballot in the mail so fast it would make your head spin.

[emmiedahl]

I wonder what the people involved in this travesty have to say about this case. The symposium occurred in the same country so I am sure they are aware of it.

http://www.lifenews.com/2012/09/11/expe ... -a-mother/

[Irishy]

http://www.youthdefence.ie/latest-news/ ... -abortion/

This is a statement released by the hard line pro lifers. The comments hurt my brain like candy floss hurts my teeth.

The problem is, that protection of the unborn is enshrined in our constitution going back to the foundation of the Irish free state in the 1920s. A time when the RCC had enormous influence including censorship and control of 99% of hospitals and schools. There is no legislation on abortion in Ireland, only interpretation of Supreme Court rulings.

Which ever member of medical staff told her this is a catholic country etc is obviously a pro life asshole. It's also a little bit racist to tell the 'different lady' how things are done round these parts. Such fuckery. It's embarrassing.

Whilst I am Dublin born and bred and get a bit itchy when I go rural, it's not really fair to say that ALL the culchies are thick :-) in fact Galway is a very liberal, arty city and many artists and performers consider it a Mecca. UCHG is a modern, teaching hospital attached to a university and not some backward cottage hospital.

ETA the minister for health has ordered full inquiry and opposition are all over it. I'm telling you, this could be the start of moves toward legislation.

[emmiedahl]

Irishy, some of the comments are hurting my brain.

"Stephanie, Abortion never saves a mothers life. That is the view of world class medical specialists in obstetrics and oncology from all over the world who gathered In Dublin in September. Can you not acknowledge that?From what I have read, the situation could been handled differently, medically (antibiotics, pain relief) etc. which would have saved her life, without resorting to abortion. As for you Mike, abortion does not cure Septacaemia. And of course she was refused an abortion as it is illegal in this country. And it sounds like that abortion would would not be the ONLY way to save her life, which is the test laid down in X."

"I am confuse as you quote an Obstetrician: "In such situations, you expedite delivery,†one Obstetrician told the Irish Times. But they didn't expedite delivery as the fetus still had a heart beat and at 17 weeks it would most certainly have died. And fetuses have protection under Irish law."

"We will know in a few months time that something else could have been done to save her life. You feel passionately the an abortion could have saved her life, that is not a fact, There were other interventions that would have saved her life. I dare Matthew because it is true. There are NO circumstances where abortion is the ONLY way a mothers life can be saved."

"Abortion is murder under any circumstances .In this case the hospital is under investigation not the Commandments of God which we are all subject to whether we believe in God or not we are all part of Creation and need to respect Creation .I think far too many have jumped the gun here blaming different parties and especially blaming youth defence who are attempting to protect life of mother and baby REMEMBER that pro life means pro life and if you subscribe to abortion or abortion on demand ,morning after pill ,or any other pill which affects life of a baby and God's Creation is an attempt to interfere with God's creation and killing of any soul is a mortal sin .There is no grey area either you are with God or against God's creation what i would urge is prayer for Savita and her husband and her family Praveen .No amount of insults to anyone will bring back Savita's life but dont let her loss of life and life of her baby in Galway Hospital be used as a beacon to allow abortion into Ireland ."

Someone else called Savita's death a "concerted attack on pro-life policies" like she planned this or something.

These people are completely in denial of how their laws killed this woman.

[mirele]

Great, Ireland, fucking international incident here.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/indi ... 29131.html

The news came out because Savita was an organizer of Galway's Diwali celebration. After her death, it was cancelled.

[Sola]

Sick, sick sick. This is what happens when you limit abortion.

[Aisling]

Absolutely disgusted at this.

As well as tragic cases like this, 1 in 10 medical practitioners in Ireland have dealt with the aftermath of backstreet abortions.

Going over to England costs around two thousand quid.This is because,even if a woman is from the North, which is under UK jurisdiction and therefore has the NHS, she still has to pay for a private clinic.

I have in fact seen what a backstreet abortion can do, to a friend of mine who confided in me afterwards. It was not pretty.

People will still try to justify it of course. Ireland is a lovely country in many ways, but it's so backward it falls off the planet.

Wouldn't be at all surprised if there was an element of racism too.

[Aisling]

Basically, if you live in Ireland, you're twelve, and you get pregnant through rape, you're fucked.

ETA: Or of course, if you have septacaemia and nobody seems to think it's a big deal.

Fucking wankshafts, gahhhh. :evil: :evil: :evil:

[docmom]

This is what happens when you legislate medicine and is exactly what will happen in this country if the anti-choice people get their way. If you tell a doctor, you will be prosecuted and thrown in jail if you perform any abortion on a woman whose life is not actually in imminent danger, then you are going to be pretty damn sure that the woman is at death's door before performing one. The law is just not flexible enough to cover all medical situations and while we all like to believe doctors will do what is right even if it is against the law, I think a fair number would save their own skins first!

P.S. I am not an OB, but I am a doctor, and the commentators arguing that abortion was not necessary in this case are, actually, wrong. Antibiotics are great but if you have a mass of infected tissue in your uterus producing toxins as I suspect was the case here, you have to remove it.

[shesinsane]

This is what jericho doesn't want to accept. He wants to pretend that this would never happen, but it does and did in this case.

A woman's life is not important to people like this.

He's not alone, more than one politician (including Team Rape's own Joe Walsh) has insisted that exceptions in the case of saving the life of the mother aren't needed because the situation never happens.

I suppose they can point out this story takes place in Ireland, and since Leprechauns aren't real Ireland isn't real either. ;)

[OkToBeTakei]

http://www.youthdefence.ie/latest-news/the-tragic-loss-of-savita-halappanavars-life-was-not-caused-by-irelands-ban-on-abortion/

This is a statement released by the hard line pro lifers. The comments hurt my brain like candy floss hurts my teeth.

The problem is, that protection of the unborn is enshrined in our constitution going back to the foundation of the Irish free state in the 1920s. A time when the RCC had enormous influence including censorship and control of 99% of hospitals and schools. There is no legislation on abortion in Ireland, only interpretation of Supreme Court rulings.

Which ever member of medical staff told her this is a catholic country etc is obviously a pro life asshole. It's also a little bit racist to tell the 'different lady' how things are done round these parts. Such fuckery. It's embarrassing.

Whilst I am Dublin born and bred and get a bit itchy when I go rural, it's not really fair to say that ALL the culchies are thick :-) in fact Galway is a very liberal, arty city and many artists and performers consider it a Mecca. UCHG is a modern, teaching hospital attached to a university and not some backward cottage hospital.

ETA the minister for health has ordered full inquiry and opposition are all over it. I'm telling you, this could be the start of moves toward legislation.

I really hope so Irishy.

I think as an OP said the apathy has been caused because the option to travel to the UK has always been an option. Albeit an expensive one. This story makes me heartsick and I sincerely hope this explodes and puts the welfare of Irish females at the top of the agenda.

[Aisling]

I'm pretty sure Amnesty International actually moored their medical boat out in international waters once, and brought women out in a dinghy from Dún Laoghaire to get abortions.

Previously they had taken to abortion boat to Ecuador or somewhere.

It's a bloody joke.

[Irishy]

Now now! Dublin is awesome. Best city ever if you don't mind paying 3.50 euro for a coffee ;-)

There is a protest going on outside the House of Parliament right now in Dublin by the pro choice lobby.

[emmiedahl]

Now now! Dublin is awesome. Best city ever if you don't mind paying 3.50 euro for a coffee ;-)

There is a protest going on outside the House of Parliament right now in Dublin by the pro choice lobby.

I was reading somewhere that 71% of the Irish public is for allowing some abortion in some cases.

I know a lot of women go to Britain for an abortion, but a woman in Savita's situation obviously cannot.

[BravaAmica]

Now now! Dublin is awesome. Best city ever if you don't mind paying 3.50 euro for a coffee ;-)

There is a protest going on outside the House of Parliament right now in Dublin by the pro choice lobby.

It's a shame that it takes a woman losing a wanted pregnancy and dying to potentially change the law.

(And, yes, Dublin is awesome. I miss it every damn day. I miss walking home through St. Stephen's Green and then going to Keogh's for a pint. I miss the Tesco in D2 where I used to grocery shop. I miss Ha'penny Bridge over the Liffey and Anna Livia on O'Connell street.)

[BravaAmica]

I was reading somewhere that 71% of the Irish public is for allowing some abortion in some cases.

I know a lot of women go to Britain for an abortion, but a woman in Savita's situation obviously cannot.

And not all Irish women can afford to go to Britain for an abortion. It's a law that adversely affects lower income women and families.

[NjoyingNsanity]

This makes me wonder what do they do in cases of pre-eclampsia? Are Irish doctors allowed to deliver a baby that hasn't reached viability or where the odds of survival are low due to prematurity? I'm not a doctor, but after having developed pre-eclampsia during one of my pregnancies I was under the impression that if medication and bed rest didn't lower the mothers blood pressure the only option left to save her life was to deliver the baby.

What is maddening about this case is that they totally put the mother's life in a secondary position to that of a dying fetus. That poor baby didn't stand a chance after her water broke, but the mother did. I can't believe they did nothing after she started showing signs of infection even when it should have been clear that the mother's life was now in danger they still waited until they could not find a fetal heartbeat the next day. I really would love to know how often they checked for a fetal heartbeat and how often they checked her vitals there seems to be a malpractice case there.

[Aisling]

And not all Irish women can afford to go to Britain for an abortion. It's a law that adversely affects lower income women and families.

Especially if they are a single mother who already has kids and nobody to mind them while they go across.

Ditto young girls.

Also the amount of women who get into debt through backstreet moneylenders to finance an abortion is ridiculous.

Although a lot of people are catching on to buying pills over the internet now.