Razing Ruth posted again!

[Jana814]

Ruth/Mary I am wondering why did your family move onto your fundy brother's property?

[Jezebel]

I am going to start a metal band and name it GODFIBBING. Sounds nasty. What do y'all think?

:banana-rock: :banana-guitar: :character-beavisbutthead:

Personally, I was going to add it to my cache of euphemisms for masturbation. "Flicking the bean" and "petting the kitty" work well enough, but more variety is always welcome. :lol:

[Maude]

Mary, like everyone else, I can only wish you the best of things. I'd definitely buy your book/magazine article.

[LIzzieB]

I've read your blog too and I'm in awe of your strength and resilience. Im glad you're able to have a relationship with Ellie as you will be great role model for her. I wish you all the best for your future and I do hope you'll pop in every now and then to say hi.

[SamuraiKatz]

Dad had a normal education! It's shocking to see how, the older he gets, and the deeper he gets into the QF movement, the worse he gets at communicating effectively. He's never been a strong writer, though. My thought (and one of my sibs agrees) is that that letter was co-written by our brother (who is the WORST educated of all of us, but the most reveered). My parents, and three sibs left at home, moved into a single wide on my fundy brother's property.

Sounds like Gothardism failed your parents miserably...and they continue to allow themselves to be fleeced by the charlatan... I wish nothing but the best for you and your sibs who escaped the cult.

[lilith]

I'm so glad you've got a magazine series coming and a book deal in the works. I've always found your story one of the most intriguing, credible and readable of the leaving fundieville stories (no offence intended to those who have been provided with limited education, but a lot of ex QF blog posts tend towards unreadable). I'm another who will preorder with Amazon if a book is pulled together - it may help you to get the deal if a publisher is aware of how large an audience you have already.

Thankyou for trusting us with your real first name. It must feel good to reclaim ownership of it in all aspects of your life.

I hope Rachel is ok. Do you know the family that she married into? Are they likely to treat her badly cause if her pregnancy?

I'm glad you have contact with Ellie, and wish you all the best in your new relationship. It would be so nice for you both if you remained close to her new family.

[MamaJunebug]

Mary, more congratulations on the magazine article/possible book!

That ruckus you hear is me, pushing my way to the front of the line to buy it!

I do have a question - what proportion of your sibling group has left Gothardism for good? Since you are not desirous of identifying your parents, I don't want numbers that would give away any more info, but is it one out of two, or 33%...?I'm asking because of curiosity about how your father must be regarding his no-longer-full quiver, about now. He's got to be wondering why God would permit it to happen to *him.*

[Jana814]

I do have a question - what proportion of your sibling group has left Gothardism for good? Since you are not desirous of identifying your parents, I don't want numbers that would give away any more info, but is it one out of two, or 33%...?I'm asking because of curiosity about how your father must be regarding his no-longer-full quiver, about now. He's got to be wondering why God would permit it to happen to *him.*

I was wondering the same thing.

[pixydust]

Mary, I'm really glad that you and little Miss Ellie get to have a relationship! I think that it will be good for both of you, in the long run.

And you are dating? Good for you! I hope that he treats you with all of the respect that you deserve!

[MaroonMandy]

Mary, I'm really glad that you and little Miss Ellie get to have a relationship! I think that it will be good for both of you, in the long run.

And you are dating? Good for you! I hope that he treats you with all of the respect that you deserve!

Both of these things. Both of these things so very much!

[Sprocket]

Congratulations Mary/Ruth. You've come such a long way from when I first started reading your blog a few years ago. Like contrary, I found FJ from you via TWOP. I wish only good things for you!

Since you aren't going to talk about Rachel on your blog, can you answer some questions here? (Does Darth Daddy know about FJ?) If you can't answer, that's fine. I was emotionally invested in Rachel's story and I've thought of her/her situation often.

1. Isn't it rather soon for your sister to be married off? She hasn't been back in the fold for long since giving birth + going back home.

2. If you know the man she married, is he okay with her having given a baby up for adoption? Is he the kind who would possibly make her life miserable for her choices before marriage?

3. How did your estranged family handle her marriage? Were they glad to be "rid" of her since she is probably seen by the QF movement as damaged goods and too worldly now?

4. Any word from Ellie's father?

[luckylibrarian]

I'm very, very glad you are doing well, Ruth. (Should we call you Ruth, still, or Mary?) I think the name change is a great idea.

I'm sorry about Rachel and her quickie-wedding. She had so much potential. I hope she is truly happy and doesn't think about having a boatload of kids. And I'm so glad that Ellie is away from that cult and growing up in a normal household. That is really sweet of the family to allow you so much involvement in her life.

[Jezebel]

This is the beginning of my "coming out" party. I have working with a publishing company on writing a series of articles to be published in a magazine. If those go well, then we may try to put together a book with others who have left to create a marketable product.

I can't wait to see the articles in print, and when the book comes out, I'm buying.

The letter in my post was sent to my brother. He forwarded a copy to me via email. Fortunately, for me, most of the family's who received it are so up to their eyes in Quiverfull and ATI, they keep my blog on the hush hush. The real harm I pose, in most ways, comes from the general public. If Gothard sees my family as a problem- he will have no problem jettisoning them from his businesses and thereby destroying the income capabilities of my father and one of my brothers and Rachel. The unspoken truce seems to be that as long as I don't cross a line and name names in specific instances, then they will likely overlook it.

Here's the thing: your dad's already a problem for Gothard. As he admitted in the letter, half of his kids have left the fold; he can't even pretend you haven't. He claims you've chosen "sin and vice," putting all the blame for that on you, but I would imagine that most Gothardites will look at him and wonder what he did so wrong that you and your siblings chose to leave. I mean, he's the patriarch, the ruler of his family, who is supposed to raise up his children so they won't stray--and his track record so far, among those who have reached adulthood, is crap. People are going to ask, "Why is that?" They're already asking it, in fact.

So yes, he's already a problem for Gothard. That he's already been reduced to moving his family into a single-wide on his son's property speaks volumes. What kind of self-respecting, self-sufficient, able-bodied patriarch winds up under his own son's "roof"? That ain't good. So whether his final fall from grace will come abruptly due to your public exposure, or slowly, due to other kids leaving as they hit 18, it's going to come. It's on it's way. And you're not to blame for it, but ultimately, you also can't protect your mother and minor siblings from it. At this point, he's the sole architect of his own undoing--and theirs, too.

But here's the thing: the sooner it all blows up, the sooner your mother and siblings can get some kind of help. When they can't turn to the cult any more, they'll finally have to look outward. I don't know if your other "sin and vice"-riddled siblings are in a position to help, or how far they're willing to go, but what looks like a catastrophe could end up saving your youngest siblings a tremendous amount of grief in the long run.

[BravaAmica]

:banana-rock: :banana-guitar: :character-beavisbutthead:

Personally, I was going to add it to my cache of euphemisms for masturbation. "Flicking the bean" and "petting the kitty" work well enough, but more variety is always welcome. :lol:

Awesome. Someone tell Darth Daddy is term godfibbing is not only a metal band, it's a euphamism for female masturbation!

[Jana814]

I'm very, very glad you are doing well, Ruth. (Should we call you Ruth, still, or Mary?) I think the name change is a great idea.

I'm sorry about Rachel and her quickie-wedding. She had so much potential. I hope she is truly happy and doesn't think about having a boatload of kids. And I'm so glad that Ellie is away from that cult and growing up in a normal household. That is really sweet of the family to allow you so much involvement in her life.

I to am sorry about Rachel. I really wished she stayed w/ u probably could have given her a wonderful life.

[MamaJunebug]

D'oh! Mary, it's in your father's own words:

. One half of the children we raised have turned to sin and vice

Yep, he's freakin' now. :roll:

I'm so glad for the half of you who are out, and for the others, I hold out hope.

[razingruth]

Congratulations Mary/Ruth. You've come such a long way from when I first started reading your blog a few years ago. Like contrary, I found FJ from you via TWOP. I wish only good things for you!

Since you aren't going to talk about Rachel on your blog, can you answer some questions here? (Does Darth Daddy know about FJ?) If you can't answer, that's fine. I was emotionally invested in Rachel's story and I've thought of her/her situation often.

1. Isn't it rather soon for your sister to be married off? She hasn't been back in the fold for long since giving birth + going back home.

2. If you know the man she married, is he okay with her having given a baby up for adoption? Is he the kind who would possibly make her life miserable for her choices before marriage?

3. How did your estranged family handle her marriage? Were they glad to be "rid" of her since she is probably seen by the QF movement as damaged goods and too worldly now?

4. Any word from Ellie's father?

1. Well, this whole relationship she's in was rushed. I think any rational person can see that it is TOO SOON for her to be married- just the emotional trauma of giving birth and going through with an adoption would be enough- but, we're not dealing with rational people.

2. I don't know the guy she's marrying very well. He has some things he can't be proud of in his history (he lost his family because of his fundamentalism) and he's been married previously. From what I've heard, recently, he's no physically abusive- so that's something, at least. He is very, very invested in fundamentalism and I'm sure that it won't be an equal marriage. I really wish I could tell you more about him but I don't know much more. What my brother and I have been able to find out has been filtered through others who are trying to keep his faults minimalized.

3. I'm not sure how to answer this. I don't think it was a "get rid of her" situation for them. You have to try to understand that my parents were worried about her soul and they truly believe- as wrong as it is- that she was on a horrible path. They see this marriage as her salvation and her opportunity to turn her life around. :roll: To them, her marriage is an answer from the Lord and her return to legalism and fundamentalism proves that they're right. :( It's twisted logic. My dad believes that this is part of her repentence (submission to a "godly authority").

4. Ellie's father hasn't put up any further challenge to the adoption process. He signed his rights away after the DNA test proved he *was* the father. I suspect that once that was confirmed, he just wanted Ellie to be out of the way so he could continue his "perfect son" image. Honestly, whatever his reasons, I'm glad he signed his rights away because she's so much better off without his family's influence. He communicated, through an attorney, that he didn't want his name released to her at any time. I'm not sure if there's such a thing as a completely sealed adoption but no one really argued with his request. I know Ellie's parents asked for a medical history if he would provide one and he denied that, too.

I guess I'm glad he was "man enough" to let her go, if that makes sense?

I've been very torn on how I feel about my sistre returning. On one hand, she *was not* handling things well when she lived with me. She seemed constantly torn between two worlds and unable to deal with reality. She was afraid of everything! In that respect, maybe she will be happier where she is. On the other hand, she had great potential that I don't think she could see in herself. It's disappointing that I feel like I failed her.

[razingruth]

But here's the thing: the sooner it all blows up, the sooner your mother and siblings can get some kind of help. When they can't turn to the cult any more, they'll finally have to look outward. I don't know if your other "sin and vice"-riddled siblings are in a position to help, or how far they're willing to go, but what looks like a catastrophe could end up saving your youngest siblings a tremendous amount of grief in the long run.

I see what you are saying. I do wish that it would all blow up in their faces and that my mom and little sisters could be free to move on. I also know that if that were to happen NOW, then they wouldn't come out well. My mom is seriously, seriously deluded about the world at this point. She sees the woman she was before Gothardism as a sinful, wretched portrait of womanhood and even when she doubts the methods (and she does have those times, I'm sure), she RELIES on the routine and the delusion. She's too far to go back and with Blessing's birth, she's just too fragile to do for herself. I want them to escape this religion. But, it has to be on their terms and of their own doing. I've been down this road and if it hadn't have been my own conviction to leave, then I would've failed. Even with the certainty of my decison that leaving was best for me, my heart and soul took a beating. It was hard. It has to be worth it to her to leave.

On that note- that's why I see other QF daughters staying in their situations. It's easier than leaving everything they know and putting their family relationships (which, remember, is ALL they have) in jeopordy for an uncertain future. Until we create better safety nets for them, they'll stay.

[razingruth]

Mary, I'm really glad that you and little Miss Ellie get to have a relationship! I think that it will be good for both of you, in the long run.

And you are dating? Good for you! I hope that he treats you with all of the respect that you deserve!

Yes, I am dating. He's a great guy. :) We're just having fun and getting to know each other better. I don't have a whole lot of free time (still waitressing and applying for jobs). But, he doesn't either.

[pomology]

I'm very, very glad you are doing well, Ruth. (Should we call you Ruth, still, or Mary?) I think the name change is a great idea.

I agree. I have a friend who happens to be trans and he's always hated his father. So when he applied to change his first name from his given feminine name he also changed his last name to his mother's maiden name. Why have somebody you hate be part of how other people know you?

[marmalade]

Wow, that "letter" from Darth blew my mind. I still find it hard to believe that your mother (wasn't she college-educated or am I thinking of someone else) could find anything attractive in such an ugly human being.

As for you Ruth, I've followed you since you were posting on TWOP ages ago and always hoped this day of freedom would come for you. Grab it with both hands and NEVER let go.

I hate how Gothard makes it nearly impossible for women to leave the cult unless a brother has gone before her, or, like the case of the Kellers, they married as Gothardites, but had a change of heart. At least in the latter case, believing the husband is the spiritual leader of the family, the daughter can at least have some contact with the family, although I'm sure they really restrict contact to shield their own daughters from lectures on damnation aimed at 6 year olds.

So glad the baby is out and cannot be touched. So sorry your sister was (my interpretation, correct if wrong) intentionally paired with this new guy because he would make sure she wouldn't leave. I guess she could get away before he dies, or if she's lucky, she won't be able to have more children and he'll divorce her. That's probably the only reason this guy agreed to marry her; she's proven she can have babies for the Cause.

As always, best of luck to you Ruth (so hard to call you Mary). You deserve every happiness.

[razingruth]

I'm very, very glad you are doing well, Ruth. (Should we call you Ruth, still, or Mary?) I think the name change is a great idea.

Feel free to use either. It may sound funny; but, "Ruth" is the name that set me free and gave me confidence to be the person I am today. So, I don't mind being called Ruth. But, Mary is my name and I love it, too.

[razingruth]

Wow, that "letter" from Darth blew my mind. I still find it hard to believe that your mother (wasn't she college-educated or am I thinking of someone else) could find anything attractive in such an ugly human being.

Mom is a college grad. She taught math for a few years before we came along. I think to put my mom's attraction to him in perspective, it's important to remember that Dad has changed quite a lot since they met. He is handsome. He was sure in his faith and, when they met, IBLP was still in it's infancy. My mom saw him as a stand-up guy with a calling and a way to provide. Times were different then.

As for you Ruth, I've followed you since you were posting on TWOP ages ago and always hoped this day of freedom would come for you. Grab it with both hands and NEVER let go.

I'm trying. :)

I hate how Gothard makes it nearly impossible for women to leave the cult unless a brother has gone before her, or, like the case of the Kellers, they married as Gothardites, but had a change of heart. At least in the latter case, believing the husband is the spiritual leader of the family, the daughter can at least have some contact with the family, although I'm sure they really restrict contact to shield their own daughters from lectures on damnation aimed at 6 year olds.

You've summed it up well. For a female to leave this, she really has few options. I think my youth was actually a blessing because we're less able to see just how scary a situation can be in our youth- consequences aren't as concrete. If you're someone like Jana Duggar, then what are your choices? Walk out without an education to pursue? Walk out without a solid job future? Be the blacksheep of a family and KNOW that they will always use you as the example of what not to do? Or, hang in there and keep the status quo- where life doesn't get much better, but it doesn't get any worse and you're likely to end up with a sort-of independent guy who takes care of you? It may be a sucky alternative but at least you know what you're in for if you stay in the movement. There aren't many surprises.

So glad the baby is out and cannot be touched. So sorry your sister was (my interpretation, correct if wrong) intentionally paired with this new guy because he would make sure she wouldn't leave. I guess she could get away before he dies, or if she's lucky, she won't be able to have more children and he'll divorce her. That's probably the only reason this guy agreed to marry her; she's proven she can have babies for the Cause.

Sadly, thats' most of it.

As always, best of luck to you Ruth (so hard to call you Mary). You deserve every happiness.

Thank you! I know- it's hard to switch to calling someone a name that you don't associate them with. :)

[JeanneD]

Did I get that right: Rachel's new in-laws exist outside of the movement? So she and her new husband both have experienced life on the outside, so maybe there's hope they can leave it in the future? I'm an optimist !

I am so glad to hear Ellie is out. Good for her !