Church Prays for Deceased Baby for 15hrs B4 Calling 911

[byHisgrace58]

Good point. Which of the elders is licensed and how legal are the weddings they perform? Just wondering.

[gulag]

Funny about that. I looked that up at the very beginning, wondering how that works. In Texas, anyone can perform a marriage. It's all sanctioned as legitimate in the eyes of civil government. The only question is whether or not one's church recognizes it as a holy union. In this case, they are their own church, soooo....I guess it's all good?

Jake Gardner, Sean Morris and Cory McLaughlin do all the weddings and ceremonies.

Who amongst the "elders" is actual clergy? Or does it matter? From what I can tell from this Revival Movement/Puritan Reformationist stuff - not to mention the street preaching evangelist thing - it looks like you can just do whatever you want if you have God on your side. Make your own stuff. Call it whatever you want. Practice whatever you want. It seems to be sort of even encouraged and respected as some kind of special prophetic calling.

It's not so different than Joseph Smith. That's how the whole Mormon deal got started. An east coast "Second Great Awakening" multi-denominational Christian influenced by Methodist and Baptist. A sort of unsophisticated churchy family given to lots of praying, visions and folk magic. Revival meetings with healing people and snake oil, I think.

[byHisgrace58]

There is a new baptismal video on the website. The young lady mentions my daughter at the beginning. She just sounds so defeated and discouraged. I could only listen to the first part...never watched the whole thing.

[apple1]

There is a new baptismal video on the website. The young lady mentions my daughter at the beginning. She just sounds so defeated and discouraged. I could only listen to the first part...never watched the whole thing.

I saw the video, could only watch small pieces of it, fast forwarded through most.

I agree that she sounds defeated. It seems that is what the "elders" of this group do: Through isolation, fasting, and "preaching", they get the person to where he/she accepts their view of things. And I suspect it is even worse for the girls and women, because their view apparently includes extreme submission for women.

Where where where are the authorities with regard to dealing with this group?

Still keeping your family in my thoughts and prayers.

[byHisgrace58]

Can just anyone read this board? Or do you have to be a member?

[yewchapel]

Can just anyone read this board? Or do you have to be a member?

At the moment, you have to be a member.

[byHisgrace58]

Ok. Just wondering how freely I could speak...

[gulag]

byHisgrace, everyone signs up through the same process you did. If you Google a post and click on it, it says it doesn't exist, until you log in. Never trust the internet, but you are among like-minded people. And even if not like-minded, the forum exists to snark. To express distaste and voice complaint. Nobody comes here or stays if they're not into it.

[byHisgrace58]

Ok, then. Thanks for the reassurance. A new sermon was posted on the site...meditations on Job. 172 minutes long. The children are made to sit still and quiet during the services. I would have trouble for that amount of time!! Seems pretty harsh to me. Almost abusive.

[gulag]

That's a three-hour session. Yikes.

[apple1]

Ok, then. Thanks for the reassurance. A new sermon was posted on the site...meditations on Job. 172 minutes long. The children are made to sit still and quiet during the services. I would have trouble for that amount of time!! Seems pretty harsh to me. Almost abusive.

And what is done to the children to make them sit still and quiet for that length of time?

There has been a posting on the site for as long as I have been looking at the site that is entitled "Love hard, discipline hard". (I thought I mentioned this earlier in this thread). The "discipline hard" phrase is concerning. What exactly does "discipline hard" mean to these people?

[apple1]

Also recently added to the website: "The Praise-worthy Wife".

(If you can make it through the ridiculous grammar/syntax) Gag. Puke. This comment is in view of the fact that I personally have a 36-year-long marriage and grown kids who are now responsible adults. Like anyone needs an overgrown boy going on and on with his view of what it takes for a woman to be a good wife and mother. Gah.

[byHisgrace58]

That's a three-hour session. Yikes.

Right!?

Also recently added to the website: "The Praise-worthy Wife".

(If you can make it through the ridiculous grammar/syntax) Gag. Puke. This comment is in view of the fact that I personally have a 36-year-long marriage and grown kids who are now responsible adults. Like anyone needs an overgrown boy going on and on with his view of what it takes for a woman to be a good wife and mother. Gah.

After the first time my daughter visited the group, she wanted me to listen to a sermon by Sean about being a biblical wife. When I asked how long he had been married, imagine my surprise when I heard he was single! I assured my daughter that, after almost 30 yrs of marriage at that time, I thought I knew a little more than he did.

I am also concerned about the 'discipline hard' statement.

[apple1]

After the first time my daughter visited the group, she wanted me to listen to a sermon by Sean about being a biblical wife. When I asked how long he had been married, imagine my surprise when I heard he was single! I assured my daughter that, after almost 30 yrs of marriage at that time, I thought I knew a little more than he did.

Yet this person seems to purport to be an authority on marriage and raising children...

I am also concerned about the 'discipline hard' statement.

Yes.

[mlady]

I hope someone, or a watchdog group, is keeping an eye on this crowd. After reading everything I could on them I get a real hinky feeling. HOPEFULLY enough people will tire of the living that way and they will just fade away, but I feel for those who are mentally tied to these guys now, it's a tough bond to break when you think any one person or group holds the key to your eternal fate.

I've been involved in Christian debate for over 30 years and these things still get to me every time. Just when I think everything has been exposed and nobody could possibly fall victim to this stuff again a whole new crop of believers comes along and the crap starts all over again. Very disturbing.

[apple1]

I hope someone, or a watchdog group, is keeping an eye on this crowd. After reading everything I could on them I get a real hinky feeling. HOPEFULLY enough people will tire of the living that way and they will just fade away, but I feel for those who are mentally tied to these guys now, it's a tough bond to break when you think any one person or group holds the key to your eternal fate.

I've been involved in Christian debate for over 30 years and these things still get to me every time. Just when I think everything has been exposed and nobody could possibly fall victim to this stuff again a whole new crop of believers comes along and the crap starts all over again. Very disturbing.

There has already been one known death (of the newborn), and who knows what co-morbidities resulting from lack of professional medical care (obstetric- including among everything else availability of pain relief if desired during labor and delivery; neonatal; or of those who become ill).

That doesn't even touch on mental, emotional, and spiritual harm.

Like you, I am very disturbed.

[Sparkle]

Yet this person seems to purport to be an authority on marriage and raising children.

Hasn't stopped Bill Gothard, right?

[apple1]

Hasn't stopped Bill Gothard, right?

I actually had that same thought, too. I just don't get it. I really don't.

[gulag]

There has been a posting on the site for as long as I have been looking at the site that is entitled "Love hard, discipline hard". The "discipline hard" phrase is concerning. What exactly does "discipline hard" mean to these people?

"Love hard, discipline hard" - three pages of unintelligible scripture-based "parenting" doctrine that says nothing. And how would they know what to address, aside from 'make sure the child learns scripture'? Like the marriage advice, orders and directive from three or four young men who have ZERO parenting experience collectively. All of whom were single street-preaching wandering minstrels and college students living in dorms and with wealthy parents, until setting up shop in Wells.

Not a one amongst them who has raised a child.

Who rapidly married home-schooled homespun daughters of evangelist preacher families after brief courtships of a few weeks. All of 'em. Almost like they were looking for those particular types of women. Agenda, much?

Led by a single, childless 'twenty-something'.

Church of Wells now has a gaggle of babies. In photos and video, there appear to be no school-age boys.

[byHisgrace58]

Don't remember seeing any. Several toddler boys, one of which is my grandson...

[ladyamylynn]

"Love hard, discipline hard" - three pages of unintelligible scripture-based "parenting" doctrine that says nothing. And how would they know what to address, aside from 'make sure the child learns scripture'? Like the marriage advice, orders and directive from three or four young men who have ZERO parenting experience collectively. All of whom were single street-preaching wandering minstrels and college students living in dorms and with wealthy parents, until setting up shop in Wells.

Not a one amongst them who has raised a child.

Who rapidly married home-schooled homespun daughters of evangelist preacher families after brief courtships of a few weeks. All of 'em. Almost like they were looking for those particular types of women. Agenda, much?

Led by a single, childless 'twenty-something'.

Church of Wells now has a gaggle of babies. In photos and video, there appear to be no school-age boys.

I shudder to think what will be wrought by the hand of these sociopaths.

[gulag]

Don't remember seeing any. Several toddler boys, one of which is my grandson...

And I worry about that...

[gulag]

Found an interesting post by Sean Morris, asking for guidance (or maybe just affirmation?) on the 'biblical premise' that women must not wear pants. So, even just three years ago, the Church of Wells senior pastor and leader hadn't yet fully shaped his doctrine on "the sisters" wearing pants in his church.

It's very long, so I excerpted just the primary paragraphs for background to Sean's question.

WHAT IS TRUTH

OPINION BASED UPON THE BIBLE

MONDAY, JUNE 08, 2009

The Issue of Designed Gender Distinction: Answering Comments or Questions

Major Premise: A woman who wears a designated male-only article is an abomination to God,

Minor Premise: Pants or trousers are a designated male-only article.

Conclusion: A woman who wears pants or trousers is an abomination to God.

Again, the point of pants on women was to remove the distinction. This attacked the image of God in men. This attacked God's design. That's why the person who does so is an abomination to God. It is a personal insult to God. This should be a serious issue to Christians. It should be about God and not about fitting in with the world.

Our culture isn't going to decide to replace old distinctions with new ones. For that reason, on this issue, Christians can't follow the culture. We must go back to the distinctions that were removed. Those were pants for men and dresses for women.

Posted by Kent Brandenburg at 12:53 PM

[Trynn]

They don't think women have different looking pants than men? Have they BEEN to a clothing store? No, scrap that: have they ever even walked down the street?

[mlady]

Interesting how the conclusion is that a woman wearing pants is an abomination to god, and why. It really shows how limited this "Christian" world view is. Making things fit their own image/ideas is nothing new. Either is making everything up as you go along, which this young leader seems to be doing. As if there is NOTHING more important???