Church Prays for Deceased Baby for 15hrs B4 Calling 911

[mrs]

I was lurking on the Rick Ross message board this morning and began reading the thread on the YMBBA Ministries/ The Church of Wells. The thread linked to an article(jacksonvilleprogress.com/local/x1561297063/Officials-Mystery-surrounds-baby-s-death) about the death of a three day old baby, Faith Shalom Pursley. The parents of Faith are members of the church. The article reports:

“The department received a call regarding the infant's death at 4 a.m. Sunday, although the death occurred 15 hours earlier at 1 p.m. on Saturday. The caller told officials they had prolonged calling first-aid responders because they were praying over the child.â€

Faith died on May 24, 2012. A memorial service for Faith was held at the church on June 1st. You can listen to the memorial service here: thechurchofwells.com/. Steve Smith from Liberty for Captives blog has a well written summary of the memorial service and death of Faith ( libertyforcaptives.com/2012/06/04/the-death-of-faith/). He writes:

““In his message, Morris addressed concerns from church members who fear that they might be part of a cult and that they should have sought medical treatment for the sick child. “As to the charge that we sinned as elders or as a church,†he said, “when that child died, we believed that it was God’s will to raise her. We don’t think that was a presumptuous thing. We’ve seen many miracles as a church and as individuals: demons cast out, healings. We weren’t just being foolish; we wanted God to be glorified.â€â€

ElderMorris is quoted as saying:

““King Asa sought not the Lord but the physicians, which means he put the physicians in a preeminent place. We are not against hospitals or the medical field. What we’re against is putting any of those things supremely over Christ, not giving him his place as God to heal, or to submit to the leadership of the Holy Ghost. In James 5 and Mark 16, Christ says that it is his will for his people to heal to his glory. Those scriptures have inspired us in the past, and they inspired us in the life of Faith. Sadly, we did not have [enough] faith to see the child healed.â€â€â€

Sean Morris is one of the three founding members of the church. He responds to the Steve’s critical blog post with an “Open Letter†posted to the church’s website(thechurchofwells.com/an-open-response-to-steve-smith.html). The letter is lengthy and full of bible references. Morris dramatically claims,

“Your post toward YMBBA is as the sword of Saul slaying the priest, and Nob, the city of the priest (1 Sam. 22:19-21). You have murdered us with your blogging as blood sport, being in flamed to this hellish game by sin. You are massacring men with eternal consequences.â€

The message board(forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,104016,page=1) at Rick Ross dedicated YMBBA /Church of Well. “KJDean†is the grandmother of the baby that died. In a post she shared:

“When someone wants to join the group, they send members to live with them until they move to join the 'big group'--wherever it is at the time. They say they are "helping" the new recruits...I am convinced they want to make sure they sell everything and give the money to the church.

We were at the memorial service for the grand baby yesterday and noticed how YOUNG some of the girls looked and they had babies. They actually admitted to praying over the lifeless body of the baby trying to resurrect it. We are still trying to wrap our brains around the fact that our daughter stood by and watched her baby die. It made us sick. Praise God, we had put on "the full armor of God" before going inside. The entire service was spent condemning us and basically telling us they weren't a cult, that we are sinners and going to hell and they cannot fellowship with those that do not believe the way they do. They ended the service by saying that some in the room would see Faith again in heaven and then, looking straight at us, some would not because we would not have access to heaven. They truly believe they are the only ones going! It was like being in the twilight zone!â€

A relative/caretaker of a neighbor of the church claims to have seen baby Faith’s mother in labor for an extended period of time. Chris99 posted:

“@ KJDean. I am almost 100% certain that the same lady that was in labor for over a week is the mother of the infant that passed away. A very close relative of mine lives very close to the "headquarters" of this group. One of the ladies told my relative about a lady being in labor for sometime. The lady was doing a lot of walking, but did not give birth for some time. It is hard to believe I know, and I would like to believe in my heart that it wasn't so.

I do not like leaving my relative alone especially @ night. I know this group has told my relative she is not saved, and she is not going to live much longer.â€

But, the grandmother responds with doubt that it could be her daughter, even though she was overdue. The only communication she has with her daughter is via her son in law. I’m not sure the grandmother would be told by her SIL/daughter if she was enduring a prolong labor and it “could†possibly be Faiths mother. It is disturbing to think about any mother being in labor for an extended period of time, and failing to seek medical assistance. Obviously, it has been implied that the group practices home birth.

(On a side note, Chris99, seems to be reliable. He is so close, that he knows the children are allowed to watch animal planet even though some say the group does not permit TV or radio. He even provides updates on the names he has heard and their descriptions. As well as writing down license plates ).

The Church of Wells has embraced legalism. As well as living lives apart from “worldly†society. They also apparently do not participate in public schools, limit media, King James version of the bible, and some women dress like they are in the FLDS. The comments from relatives who have lost their loved ones have reported decreasing communication. Some receive letters, stating “you are not saved†and cease communication all together. From the comments I believe many have joined this church over the past year.

What struck me as odd, is how young the group looks on the church’s website. They are my peers. They are attractive (not that it matters). And I believe the elders are fairly young. Young families and adults are being deceived into joining a isolated Christian sect.

This church group is very scary. This is not a “snark†post this is a “shocked†post. I apologize if this post is a little hard to follow. I am praying/sending good vibes to the family members of those who have joined the group. I hope that the young families and all members of the group can find a healthy form of spirituality in the future. My heart aches for everyone involved with this group.

Further reading on the death of newborn baby, Faith, and the Church of Wells:

ktre.com/story/18698905/memorial-service-audio-sheds-light-on-wells-church-group-beliefs

cbs19.tv/story/18711060/pastors-discuss-wells-religious-group

[doggie]

if god raised the baby from the dead would that not make it Jesus? I mean where in the bible but for jesus was someone raised from the dead? well just checked and about 7

[gulag]

I'm new to the forum. Walking softly and don't want to offend.

The 'Church of Wells' is a very touchy situation and continues to escalate. Pretty much without exception, the entire group of converts has rejected good wholesome family relationships. Even the fundamentalist evangelical pastors who supported them, have been called out as "evil" and "false Christian" and that every church is "deception."

By their doctrine, they are prohibited from "fellowship" outside the group, and have lengthy complicated Biblical justification for publicly renouncing their parents and families.

Women are required to be chaste, modest, submissive and obedient in all ways. To their husbands and the group leaders first, then the other men. They must avoid "gaiety" and "lightness" and work hard to be solemn.

It's tough.

More information here:

http://faith.boardhost.com/

http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,104016,page=1

http://factnet.org/vbforum/showthread.p ... Again-quot

[gulag]

Very good post about the situation and family comments:

http://libertyforcaptives.com/2012/06/0 ... -of-faith/

[gulag]

50-page rant by the dad of the dead baby. He delivered her.

http://www.thechurchofwells.com/his-roa ... hurch.html

[VooDooChild]

I just cannot fathom shit like this. How can parents, who I'm sure, are aware of the existence of doctors not seek out their services when their child is not breathing and has no pulse. I get they are brainwashed, but...fuck!

Edit: because I hadn't meant to quote previous post.

[apple1]

I couldn't read all of it.

I will say this. If it had been my daughter, and my granddaughter, there would not be enough avenues (legal, internet, or other) available to me to exhaust the anger, and the legal and moral pressures I would bring to bear upon that man.

Yet there may not be more than a half dozen out of those 50 pages in which he doesn't condemn his MIL.

This man's obvious delusion fails to excuse him in the death of that child.

Does anyone know if any arrests have been made, or legal charges filed?

[Joan of Snarc]

A 50-page rant against his mother-in-law and one paragraph about his dead baby.

What a jackass.

I don't think I can stand to listen to the dead baby's memorial service.

[NurseNell]

Wow, they sure do all look very young. I don't think anyone in that photo on the porch is over 40, not even close to it. I cannot fathom how people in today's society can take up with such super crazy, conservative groups. As a mother I don't know how I could handle an adult child of mine getting involved in a church like this. I wonder what kind of homes they grew up in.

[NurseNell]

If my daughter, or son, talked about me the way this daughter is talking about her mother I'd be broken hearted. She's another Abigail, judging her mother and the good life she provided her daughter. What an ungrateful beyotch. :shock:

[apple1]

If my daughter, or son, talked about me the way this daughter is talking about her mother I'd be broken hearted. She's another Abigail, judging her mother and the good life she provided her daughter. What an ungrateful beyotch. :shock:

See the bold above - absolutely.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I couldn't read all of it.

I will say this. If it had been my daughter, and my granddaughter, there would not be enough avenues (legal, internet, or other) available to me to exhaust the anger, and the legal and moral pressures I would bring to bear upon that man.

Yet there may not be more than a half dozen out of those 50 pages in which he doesn't condemn his MIL.

This man's obvious delusion fails to excuse him in the death of that child.

Does anyone know if any arrests have been made, or legal charges filed?

The baby had a heart defect, died of natural causes. No charges filed from what I read, not even neglect.

[gulag]

The baby was in distress for three days. An observable, treatable cardiac condition that would likely have been diagnosed, even during pregnancy.

No charges yet, because the Sheriff's department doesn't want to "infringe" on anyone's religious freedoms. Yep, that's what he said.

An adult mad at her mother for letting her watch TV, buying her trendy clothes and taking her to Disneyland. Uh huh. Wish she was my mom!

But I don't believe the woman wrote any of that 50 pages. The husband and the "elders" or one of 'em, did.

[sugarloaf]

It makes me sick that children are allowed to die needlessly without consequence to the caregivers because the caregivers are too stupid to trust modern medicine (or parent in such a way that they don't notice their child is ill). I don't care how much they wrap up their neglect in Jesus (or any other religion)- that's basically what it comes down to, for me.

[gulag]

I know one thing - if I acted this way with babies and children in my care and did not have a religious excuse, authorities would handle it very differently. I would be accountable for the death of a baby, wouldn't I?

Can you imagine what the response would be if I were Muslim and this was an 80-member enclave of young, twenty-something orthodox Shiites from all over the country, all living together in Texas and sharing houses!? Or Buddhists or Star-Children or whatever? With submissive solemn women and children with their heads down, attired in the sect's unique signature old-fashioned garb. Ha!

The test of neglect and poor decisions, being unable to reasonably care for children, is evangelical Christian religion?!

Yeesh, no wonder it's so popular. Apparently it gives you a free pass on everything.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

Wow, they sure do all look very young. I don't think anyone in that photo on the porch is over 40, not even close to it. I cannot fathom how people in today's society can take up with such super crazy, conservative groups. As a mother I don't know how I could handle an adult child of mine getting involved in a church like this. I wonder what kind of homes they grew up in.

Yeah, that is SO not how I pictured the members of that church. WOW. Those are folks of my generation, some younger. How did that happen? :shock:

I think it's pretty telling, though, that most of the children in that photo are not smiling... :?

[gulag]

Of course not. They can't. They're supposed to pray hard for solemness and work at an absence of "gaiety" and "lightness."

Read the testimony of a 10-year-old who was kept awake and up all night and the next day, hammered by the "elders," preached to.

Let's see - You're ten years old. A storm happens. You're scared. You spend a night in a tornado shelter underneath the house with your younger siblings. The next day, 5 or 6 adults, most of them unrelated and new to you, gather 'round talking to you in a confined space, keep you awake, withhold food and water, tell you you're going to die in a fiery hell and suffer for all eternity. You fall asleep on the couch (which you feel remorseful and guilty about), and it starts all over again. Then you're ordered into a closet to pray and contemplate:

a. a horrible painful death in Hell for all Eternity, and dooming your siblings to the same fate,

or

b. accepting God and saving yourself and your siblings.

thechurchofwells.com/carolyn-weigand.html

[apple1]

The baby had a heart defect, died of natural causes. No charges filed from what I read, not even neglect.

A very TREATABLE, even FIXABLE heart defect. My employer hospital saves babies with heart defects every day.

[apple1]

gulag, It sounds like you may be a close relative of some who have been taken in by this cult. Are you able to acknowledge this or say what the relationship is? (I understand if you can't answer this).

[apple1]

No charges yet, because the Sheriff's department doesn't want to "infringe" on anyone's religious freedoms. Yep, that's what he said.

Generally, the district attorney is responsible for the filing of charges. (This has usually, but not always, been preceded by an arrest by law enforcement). If the district attorney files charges first, an arrest warrant would be issued, and law enforcement would have to act.

Sometimes the findings of the medical examiner are the precipitating factor to initiate filing charges.

Where is the district attorney in this case? Why no action?

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

Of course not. They can't. They're supposed to pray hard for solemness and work at an absence of "gaiety" and "lightness."

Read the testimony of a 10-year-old who was kept awake and up all night and the next day, hammered by the "elders," preached to.

Let's see - You're ten years old. A storm happens. You're scared. You spend a night in a tornado shelter underneath the house with your younger siblings. The next day, 5 or 6 adults, most of them unrelated and new to you, gather 'round talking to you in a confined space, keep you awake, withhold food and water, tell you you're going to die in a fiery hell and suffer for all eternity. You fall asleep on the couch (which you feel remorseful and guilty about), and it starts all over again. Then you're ordered into a closet to pray and contemplate:

a. a horrible painful death in Hell for all Eternity, and dooming your siblings to the same fate,

or

b. accepting God and saving yourself and your siblings.

thechurchofwells.com/carolyn-weigand.html

That was one of the most disturbing things I've read in a long time. I would say that even the Maxwells are not at this level of crazy.

[Wolfie]

50-page rant by the dad of the dead baby. He delivered her.

thechurchofwells.com/his-road-is-strait-and-narrow-the-testimony-of-daniel-pursley-concerning-his-dealings-with-the-deans-and-his-exodus-from-the-modern-mega-church.html

His Road is Strait and Narrow. Seems to be not well educated, if you want people to listen to you at least use the correct form of the words.

[AVENues]

Doctors, healers, medicine are the answer to their forking prayers. There are plenty of ways available to cure illness, plenty of different remedies. Those are the answer to their prayers.

[apple1]

His Road is Strait and Narrow. Seems to be not well educated, if you want people to listen to you at least use the correct form of the words.

I suspect they are using it as an archaic (think old English, as in King James' time) spelling rather than blatant misspelling. Everything they have on that site seems to be overblown and/or archaic, presenting themselves as more educated and elite than most. If something can be said in 5 words, they use 10. Very awkward and not very readable. But I think this is part of the intimidation factor.

[Joan of Snarc]

I suspect they are using it as an archaic (think old English, as in King James' time) spelling rather than blatant misspelling. Everything they have on that site seems to be overblown and/or archaic, presenting themselves as more educated and elite than most. If something can be said in 5 words, they use 10. Very awkward and not very readable. But I think this is part of the intimidation factor.

I agree. While that diatribe reads better than most fundie-written propaganda, it's obvious they were trying so very hard. In the beginning, he mentions having several editors. I think several people slaved over that mess to make it as impressive as possible. They throw in several archaic spellings, like heretick, just to spice it up and make themselves appear educated. Overall, it reminds me of a debate resolution. Resolved: My mother-in-law pissed me off by airing my dirty laundry on message boards so she deserves this 50-page bashing, complete with Bible quotes.