Season 6 of 19 Kids and Counting. God help us all!

[Sola]

I don't think Hannie has ADHD, but I do think that she is displaying some attention problems which I think are related to lack of parental input.

I think it will be interesting to see how the howlers turn out. Many of them are displaying characteristics seen in kids whose parents have poor parenting skills. I suspect that quite a few of them will have issues as they get older. In some ways J'chelle is lucky that her youngest kids are all girls as the manifestation of crappy parenting is slightly less dramatic in girls than it is in boys. Boys tend to get aggressive and it can lead to violent behaviour and risk taking. Girls still engage in those behaviours of course, but in general the results are not as dramatic.

As for Smuggar, he is so over the whole lifestyle. He's well on his way to becoming a fundy lite red neck douchebag. He doesn't buy into Gothardism any more. You look at other young Gothard couples and then look at Smuggar and there is no comparison. Anna still lives it and I suspect she is in denial that Smuggar has left that behind.

[mebeforee]

I agree that I don't think Hannie is necessarily ADD or ADHD. I have ADD, so does my mother, and my older brother has a worse case of it than the both of us. I also lead a group of girlscouts, we started with them at age 5 and 6 and they're now mostly 7 and 8. A few of them have obvious ADHD, and Johanna doesn't remind me of them at all. Hannie CAN focus, and often does, but I feel that her mother isn't providing her with learning that is interesting to her.

The kids I've dealt with who have attention disorders will pay attention for a moment, and then be effortlessly distracted by something else. One girl in particular that has been in our GS troop since the beginning is still so young that, if I were her parent, I wouldn't necessarily want to start medicating her - but something should probably be getting done to help her. She'll raise her hand for every question asked, but rarely do her answers have anything to do with the question. She's obviously very intelligent, but there's a particular quality to her where you can tell she's almost always somewhere else in her head than you are. She distracts the other girls and can't sit still for more than a few moments, and unlike what I've seen from the Duggar kids, when this girl gets up and moves around, it's almost like she doesn't even realize she's doing it. (Of course, these are just my personal experiences, but I don't think Johanna has an attention disorder.)

Hannie strikes me more as someone who understands the concept of what she's doing and is bored with having to continue working on it. If Michelle would brush up on teaching techniques she could really help Hannie. She seems like a more hands-on or active learner, and isolating her from the rest of the house isn't going to make writing lines or reading text more interesting to her.

James, on the other hand, does seem to me like he has ADD or ADHD. His distraction seems much more chronic and disruptive, and there's been a LOT of video that shows him forgetting what he was supposed to be doing halfway through, leaving belongings behind, and going off to do other things instead of school without even a thought to it. The fact that the homeschooling at the Duggar house is so brutally unstructured makes it very easy for him to get away without completing his work at all. If he were in a classroom setting, teachers would have been alerting the parents from day 1 that he might need some extra help in learning how to be a student.

[blatantlyeggplant]

I found it funny how Josh said something like "we have a little library for her here at home" and then it cut to a selection of about 8 books. I recently went home to pack up my own "little library" and it took up 8 boxes. And then there's a whole bookcase worth that the headship and I have acquired in 18 months in our new city. And that many again on our Kindles... I must remember to thank my mother for instilling a love of books and taking us kids for weekly trips to the library two towns over.

I'm still fuming over the way they handled those fish, 8 hours after watching it. A complete lack of respect for "God's creations" and no acknowledgment whatsoever that they were fellow living creatures.

[Deleted03]

I think that was Johanna--I always remember her because I had a friend named that and it was pronounced Yo-hah-na and I desperately wanted to name a daughter that.

She has shown attention issues before and seems to be extremely behind for her age. Michelle calls it "social" but I have a social child who could sit and write a letter at that age--without out it being written out for her ahead of time.

I don't necessarily think it is ADHD or similar, either. She reminds me of my now 10 year old daughter at that age. Some call it willful, I call it opinionated and have great expectations for her in some field involving world domination. :lol: Some children spring from the womb knowing what they need to do in life and all a parent can do is make sure they have the tools and then get the fuck out of their way.

But all Johanna has are roadblocks and expectations that are unrealistic for her personality. That will make a person distracted and twitchy.

that's funny because I was thinking about how many homeschoolers start reading much later than that (kind of the when it comes, there is no rush philosophy) but here she was at 6 writing letter like I was in school... no benefits of teaching at home...

[MrsYoungie]

I found it funny how Josh said something like "we have a little library for her here at home" and then it cut to a selection of about 8 books. I recently went home to pack up my own "little library" and it took up 8 boxes. And then there's a whole bookcase worth that the headship and I have acquired in 18 months in our new city. And that many again on our Kindles... I must remember to thank my mother for instilling a love of books and taking us kids for weekly trips to the library two towns over.

I'm still fuming over the way they handled those fish, 8 hours after watching it. A complete lack of respect for "God's creations" and no acknowledgment whatsoever that they were fellow living creatures.

Josh - that is not a little library. That is a bookshelf.

Also, agreeance about the treatment of the poor fishies. We should be grateful that JB lied and that this was their only fishing trip ever. I'm sure the fishies are grateful.

[luckystone]

Allowing Mack to read only opens her up to the ebil sin of imagination! ZOMG she could ask questions! There isnt much depth of literature of the fundie sort, and we all know the classics are out of the question because they may inlude sex or prostitutes or, the sin of all sins: strong women!

So does the bible lol

Argh, they abuse fish too? These people are too much. Why is it that religious people (except for some Hindus, Buddhists, Jians etc) love abusing animals so much more than less religious people? They think animals are created for them? So sick.

[Deleted01]

. Some call it willful, I call it opinionated and have great expectations for her in some field involving world domination. :lol: Some children spring from the womb knowing what they need to do in life and all a parent can do is make sure they have the tools and then get the fuck out of their way.

That's my middle child...and it's an odd personality for a middle child to have. She is the youngest girl and displays more "baby of the family" traits than her brother, who IS the baby, but also the only boy.

[Sola]

I found it funny how Josh said something like "we have a little library for her here at home" and then it cut to a selection of about 8 books. I recently went home to pack up my own "little library" and it took up 8 boxes. And then there's a whole bookcase worth that the headship and I have acquired in 18 months in our new city. And that many again on our Kindles... I must remember to thank my mother for instilling a love of books and taking us kids for weekly trips to the library two towns over.

I'm still fuming over the way they handled those fish, 8 hours after watching it. A complete lack of respect for "God's creations" and no acknowledgment whatsoever that they were fellow living creatures.

I laughed too. That's not a little library Josh, that's a bloody book shelf.

My daughter has a wooden chest in her room that is full of books, a large plastic box - full of books, and two shelves - full of books as well as having various books around the house. She has hundreds of books and could probably open her own library herself. I dread to think what it would be like if we ever moved from here because in books alone, between the 4 of us we must have a thousand or more.

[Markie]

As for Smuggar, he is so over the whole lifestyle. He's well on his way to becoming a fundy lite red neck douchebag. He doesn't buy into Gothardism any more. You look at other young Gothard couples and then look at Smuggar and there is no comparison. Anna still lives it and I suspect she is in denial that Smuggar has left that behind.

Josh would have met a lot of fundy-lites on the Santorrum (sp?) campaign. They seemed to be doing well, were Republicans and Christians. These are all things that Josh and Anna value. Widening his circle of friends has allowed him to become somewhat less fundy and less influenced by Gothard. I cannot see Anna ever getting a job and she will probably homeschool the children, however, she may become involved in a homeschooling co-op for certain subjects. I hope Josh does find his niche. I actually feel sad for his family, because he is not ambitious enough to be a great provider. He will always be compared to JimBob, who was successful in a different time and economy. JimBob also had Michelle working beside him for the first four years of their marriage. Josh and Anna have been married for just four years and have two toddlers and perhaps another one in the oven. Gothard wants to keep his minions dumb and in poverty, so they will blindly follow him and his elite.

[green]

So does the bible lol

Argh, they abuse fish too? These people are too much. Why is it that religious people (except for some Hindus, Buddhists, Jians etc) love abusing animals so much more than less religious people? They think animals are created for them? So sick.

This belief is horrible. I had an awful discussion with a relative, who told me I was not following "God's plan" when I mentioned I'm a vegetarian. Apparently God's plan was to create non-human animals just for the benefit of humans. :roll:

[Hannie]

I'm still fuming over the way they handled those fish, 8 hours after watching it. A complete lack of respect for "God's creations" and no acknowledgment whatsoever that they were fellow living creatures.

I found that very repulsive as well. I think I will never understand what makes fishing a fun activity for kids. :? Especially when you just throw them back in and they are probably injured. The whole thing doesn't make any sense to me.

And about Mack - she seems like a bright child and she could do so many things in life with a good education...I hope it's not the first and last time that she was allowed to go to the library.

[Dollypeeps]

Why have a lot of the episodes been taken down from youtube. I cant find the Jubilee one now or its not there but some of the others are. Did they get taken down out of bad taste I wonder.

Some of them didn't want to be there fishing as you see they thought it icky and revolting.

Why is there this need to take ALL the family on everything by the way I don't get that?

As for Anna and Josh I don't see any kids at all now they will have the 2 they have and say it was gods way. They are only towing the party line on camera and going no fecking way off.

J'chelle you are offensive over comparing JL death to Jubilee's it isn't the same at all.

When did Josiah get sent to cadets did I miss something there? Poor sod I hope he runs away and soon. When I watch I always see if I can see him now after what his dad did to him when Michelle announced her pregnancy. He seems a forgotten one there along with the younger girls.

Why did they go to Jill over the guns and not mum or dad now that is very very telling there for sure.

Johanna looked like why am I here I dont get schooled I get to play and do what I want normally. Another FU Internet moment and it showed as if we where fooled at all. Michelle you are a lieing git over I teach phonics everyday. I call BS there. Of to force myself to watch the other one as I have caught up on my episodes of the other ones well the ones I didn fast forward a bit as it can get a bit numbing at times.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I think the problem with getting Johannah to pay attention was more through lazy parenting and crappy homeschooling, than her actually having ADHD, I doubt Michelle does daily schooling with the kids or ever expects them to sit still and be quiet for a bit, the kids are practically feral. Or shes clever enough to know SOTDRT is bullshit and far below her level and is bored.

The kids tend to go to their sisters instead of their parents because they see Michelle and JimBob more as "big people who sorta live with us but ignore us and dont do anything" and the Jslaves as "big people who pay attention to us, cook our tater tot casserole and clean the house we live in, they must be our parents"

[mebeforee]

I don't think Josiah was sent away, but it is VERY noticeable that he is now absent from the episodes. You only see him in the background, he hasn't done any interviews in the past season or two. It's a stark contrast when you look at older episodes. From the beginning he's been one of the most articulate and intelligent of the Duggars, and in every season but the last two or three, he's been a strong personality providing commentary to the activities they participate in. He suddenly disappeared from the limelight after several years. It's really strange and I can't imagine that he just decided he didn't want to have the attention anymore. It really seems that his family is suppressing his opinion, quite possibly because he has become disillusioned with the lifestyle after witnessing his mother and Josie's medical conditions.

I don't think they have every episode, but I've been keeping up with the Duggars via delishows.com. I've just gotten settled in my new apartment - I got into a postgrad program overseas - and where I'm living now, I don't have access to my usual TV programs. So far, I've found the internet to be very valuable in keeping up with new episodes, but it looks like they have a fairly good archive of previous episodes, too.

http://delishows.com/show/19-kids-and-counting/

In the past I've also had good luck in finding previous eps on the Duggar fan blog:

http://duggarsblog.blogspot.com/p/watch ... sodes.html

[lilwriter85]

I hate to say this, but I think there will come a time when Boob and Mullet will have to deal with a bigger tragedy than miscarriage. I have noticed that a lot of large families lose a child at some point. In a lot of cases, one of the children dies in adulthood. There were 8 siblings on my mother's side. One of my mom's older siblings(sister) died at age 26 due to a lung illness. Both of my grandparents were alive when that happened. My grandfather died 15 years later and one of my uncles died ten years before my grandma died. I have seen similar things happen in other families.

[mebeforee]

Considering their lack of concern over medical care for their children, it wouldn't surprise me. It would be tragic for the family, but they really haven't made any individual effort to have their kids checked out for potentially dangerous medical conditions, and there are so many that the odds probably aren't in their favor.

[BoomerLynn]

Considering their lack of concern over medical care for their children, it wouldn't surprise me. It would be tragic for the family, but they really haven't made any individual effort to have their kids checked out for potentially dangerous medical conditions, and there are so many that the odds probably aren't in their favor.

Not to mention their complete disregard for safety.

[lilwriter85]

There could be other tragedies in which one of the kids does not die, but is disabled. I can't see Boob and Mullet doing well in a situation, if one of the boys became paralyzed because of an accident on the property or a car wreck.

[snickerz]

I have said this before, but it wouldn't surprise me a bit if one of the kids fell off/got run over by one of those 4 wheeler things they ride around in. Or some other similar, entirely avoidable accident.

[SPHASH]

I hate to say this, but I think there will come a time when Boob and Mullet will have to deal with a bigger tragedy than miscarriage. I have noticed that a lot of large families lose a child at some point. In a lot of cases, one of the children dies in adulthood. There were 8 siblings on my mother's side. One of my mom's older siblings(sister) died at age 26 due to a lung illness. Both of my grandparents were alive when that happened. My grandfather died 15 years later and one of my uncles died ten years before my grandma died. I have seen similar things happen in other families.

I am one of six kids in my family, two half brothers, two full brothers and one full sister. Two of my brothers are gone now, one full brother was stillborn and one half brother committed suicide. Both of them died long before my dad passed away.

[3 is enough]

Anna is a walking contradiction. She is smug yet insecure at the same time. She has 2 children, yet freaks out over getting a library card. I do understand her nervousness about reading to the moms and kids- I am uncomfortable speaking to groups too.

It's been 4 years. She's a bit less uncomfortable on camera, and she knows it is a necessary evil, but given the choice, she'd probably never want to be filmed again.

But wow, she must be so confused. She has 3 siblings who have left ATI, and her husband is showing signs of wanting to do the same once the show ends. She appears to have drunk a lot of kool-aid, and probably wants to stay, yet she must obey her husband. With 2 children and no skills, she is pretty much stuck.

This sounds terrible, but in Michelle's twisted mind, I bet the loss of Jubilee is way more tragic than the loss of any of her living children would be. The only time she seems to feel a connection to her kids is when she is carrying them. She would probably be more upset if one of the older kids had an untimely death- she does seem to have relationships with them. But she hardly even knows the Howlers and the Lost Girls, with the exception of Josie. She'd probably spout some nonsense about being called home to Jesus, and move on.

[hapamama]

I can't fault Josh and Anna too much for their parenting mistakes, after all, look at who their role models are. It's going to take time for them to learn anything different, although I think they are starting to see the light.

[Buzzard]

Josh would have met a lot of fundy-lites on the Santorrum (sp?) campaign. They seemed to be doing well, were Republicans and Christians. These are all things that Josh and Anna value. Widening his circle of friends has allowed him to become somewhat less fundy and less influenced by Gothard. I cannot see Anna ever getting a job and she will probably homeschool the children, however, she may become involved in a homeschooling co-op for certain subjects. I hope Josh does find his niche. I actually feel sad for his family, because he is not ambitious enough to be a great provider. He will always be compared to JimBob, who was successful in a different time and economy. JimBob also had Michelle working beside him for the first four years of their marriage. Josh and Anna have been married for just four years and have two toddlers and perhaps another one in the oven. Gothard wants to keep his minions dumb and in poverty, so they will blindly follow him and his elite.

Smugly strikes me as someone who will sell out to the highest bidder. When the show ends he needs a job where he will be adored and considered important, pay well, have travel benefits, and require the least amount of work possible. If Gothard or Doug Phillips (who is a tool) wants to hire him on as an advisor so he can speak, write books, go on important manly journeys to the grand canyon, represent "the cause" etc. then he will. If he hooks up with a conservative PAC that offers the same benefits but requires him to be slightly more "mainstream" then he will. Josh is a money whore and will bend his beliefs to whomever pays the most at the time, both in fame and actual dollars.

[mebeforee]

In terms of Josh taking the highest paying job... it's kind of to be expected, though. After linking the sources I use to follow the Duggars, I then decided to watch their first special "14 Children and Pregnant Again!", and it's really a shocking difference to the lifestyle they currently enjoy. When comparing the modern Duggar family, with their money and house and clothes and toys and all the things that TLC has helped to provide for them, it's no shock that any of the members that REMEMBER that portion in their lives would do whatever it took to prevent returning to it. They often strike me as lazy or greedy, but I guess I can't blame them. Not when they're taught from day one that their life's value amounts to how many kids they have. To have that many kids, you need serious money.

In a way, I feel really bad for the kids from Jed/Jer or Jason on down. Once the show ends, and they mature and get married or whatever, they're going to be thrust into a world that is completely different from what they've grown up in. Their parents are not preparing them for that at all.

[xReems]

I don't see Smugs and Smugess following the fundie line much longer. They put on this act that they'll be following the same path they grew up in yet we see "cracks" in their so called beliefs from their defense over having a huge flat screen tv ("educational purposes" my ass) to Smuggar shrugging when asked about more kids. Anna has said she struggles when taking care of the howlers and has made remarks on how she doesn't know how Michelle can handle so many children.

Think about it-When the first show started, all Smuggar and Anna knew were beliefs they grew up believing. After marriage and seeing the world for themselves made them see that there's more than living a fundamentalist lifestyle. I think they're just putting on this "We love Gothard" act for the camera but are secretly shying away from it. I don't think they're going to go mainstream, probably turn fundie-lite, but I don't think they'll be following the IBLP bandwagon much soon. I think Josh seems content with just having 2 kids but I don't Anna would mind welcoming 1 or maybe 2 more. I can see Anna homeschooling her children but I don't think they'll be using ATI resources to give them an education they need.

I'm not defending Smuggar but I definitely think he's getting annoyed with his family bit by bit and it's showing in the show. I think he feels suffocated and the fact that he doesn't own his own home or lot could put a strain between Smuggar and JB. JB controls everything and he's willing to do anything to make sure his children stay put in the AK area even if that means owning his sons' businesses. I highly doubt Smuggar has the power to tell his parents that him and Anna want to get out of Arkansas or move several hours away. JB could easily hold the car lot over his head to make sure Josh stays where he needs to.