lolPersecution part 87

[JesusFightClub]

Communists aren't obliged to be nice, you know. Nor are we obliged to tell workers to take pay cuts because the ruling class screwed up, and put up with complete renegotiation of their contracts without their consent. In fact, we are really supposed to be against that sort of thing.

Every strike causes disruption. This is the point of a strike. Differing levels, but the higher level of disruption the better. If the RMT strike and you can't get from your work in time to see your child's school play, or your 1hr morning commute becomes 2hrs long, your wellbeing is affected. So what communist would counsel the RMT not to strike for their rights in case someone feels upset or annoyed? A shitty one, is what.

It would be ideal if strikes only pissed off the bosses and got them to instantly concede to all our demands but it doesn't work that way.

In re doctors, they get paid far more than I do, but I supported their strike. The reason being, they are workers. They had a contract which gave them a big pension, far bigger again than mine will be, but it was a contract. Contracts can't just be "rethought" and torn up on the whim of management. That's what's happening right across the workforce now in the name of "cuts" and the like and it's not acceptable.

[emmiedahl]

I don't know how much American doctors earn so I can't compare. This is the NHS breakdown of doctors' salaries:

http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/explore-by-career/doctors/pay-for-doctors/

It looks like it is roughly the same for primary care, especially considering the extra pay for hours outside a normal work week. The specialists seem to earn quite a bit less. Is there a shortage of specialists there? I can see why my endocrinologist was against socialized medicine!

edited because I have issues with everyday words apparently

[Sola]

I don't know how much American doctors earn so I can't compare. This is the NHS breakdown of doctors' salaries:

http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/explore-by-career/doctors/pay-for-doctors/

I found a website a few months ago which had a recently made chart showing what doctors made in the US - can I hell as like find it now. But anyway, there wasn't that much difference really. The US doctors did earn more on average but when you factor in the extras that we get which what you have to pay for out of your salaries (health insurance etc), the difference was negligible. Also NHS doctors are covered (I think) by the NHS Indemnity, which pays out in the event of malpractice, therefore malpractice insurance is not as much a necessity over here (although I presume some doctors will still take it out).

[Glass Cowcatcher]

Attempting to rerail the thread from the commies here... :lol:

Nell, what exactly do you think is the difference between the church (presumably) assassinating someone whose beliefs they take issue with, to letting someone die because they need a medical procedure the church takes issue with?

[emmiedahl]

I found a website a few months ago which had a recently made chart showing what doctors made in the US - can I hell as like find it now. But anyway, there wasn't that much difference really. The US doctors did earn more on average but when you factor in the extras that we get which what you have to pay for out of your salaries (health insurance etc), the difference was negligible. Also NHS doctors are covered (I think) by the NHS Indemnity, which pays out in the event of malpractice, therefore malpractice insurance is not as much a necessity over here (although I presume some doctors will still take it out).

This is something I am really interested in. One huge bonus of the jobs my husband and I both chose is that we can take our training anywhere in the world should the proverbial shit hit the fan. But both jobs are in health care. It is not a huge deal to me as long as I can earn a decent enough living because this would be a plan for extreme political situations in which I would be lucky to merely escape.

[Coconut Flan]

With the apparent premise being that nurses are underpaid, how much should they make?

I called a friend and got her current salary so I'm curious if she's "underpaid" or "overpaid."

[desertvixen]

The reason being, they are workers. They had a contract which gave them a big pension, far bigger again than mine will be, but it was a contract. Contracts can't just be "rethought" and torn up on the whim of management. That's what's happening right across the workforce now in the name of "cuts" and the like and it's not acceptable.

This. Part of the reason that these jobs attract people is the benefits. Same sort of issue is going to go down with military retirement benefits - I hit 14 years in Octpber, and I'm watching the idea of screwing with those benefits pretty closely. Plus, military medical costs are going to continue to grow, if only because far more people survived with injuries that likely would have killed them in previous conflicts.

A contract is a contract, and it needs to be honored.

[Sola]

This is something I am really interested in. One huge bonus of the jobs my husband and I both chose is that we can take our training anywhere in the world should the proverbial shit hit the fan. But both jobs are in health care. It is not a huge deal to me as long as I can earn a decent enough living because this would be a plan for extreme political situations in which I would be lucky to merely escape.

Come over here Emmie! You get free healthcare, secular(ish) schooling and we need good people in the NHS! Oh and we have a welfare safety net! (Well we do at the moment, not sure for how much longer as our dear conservative government seems hell bent on destroying it)

[Guest Anonymous]

With the apparent premise being that nurses are underpaid, how much should they make?

I called a friend and got her current salary so I'm curious if she's "underpaid" or "overpaid."

Just to be contentious, I'll say 'From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.'

Edited to add: I am kidding. You get that I'm kidding, right?

[Coconut Flan]

:lol: :lol: Yes, I got you're kidding.

[fundifugee]

I am not sure what things are like in the US, but here with a strike health care workers (RNs, MDs, paramedics) are subject to essential services legislation. Therefore the strike involves elective appointments and procedures, but never extends to emergency services. Lives are not lost due to a healthcare workers strike. Which does not stop Management from trying to malign the strikers by claiming they have no regard for patients, but it isn't true.

[fundifugee]

I'm 67 and I'm with you. John XXIII really did more for social justice than any Pope since. I was so hopeful when John Paul I was elected. I cried when he died. I'm not a conspiracy person but I still have questions about his untimely death. Ratzinger, in my opinion, was the worse possible choice for Pope.

I am with y'all on the Catholic Workers and on the Latin American Liberation Theology. They almost won me over. Could not stomach the hierarchy though and in the end it seemed a case where folks were doing good in spite of, not because of, a religious hierarchy. The only support the Church could take credit for in that work was some of the funding (but pathetically little in the grand scheme of the wealth of the Catholic Church).

I have worked at a Catholic Church clinic in Latin America. I was allowed to hand out birth control (which I always do with morning-after pill instructions as well). When, prior to my signing on, I asked specifically about that policy, the priest smiled and said "don't ask don't tell" and gave me free license to do what I needed to, making it clear that he was not involved in medical care decisions, only in trying to raise funds. Abortion was illegal in the country where I worked. I would have had to do some serious soul searching and probably would have done a medical abortion if asked to within the window of opportunity where those things can happen. However, all the women I saw who requested abortion were way to far along (18+ weeks) for it to be a safe procedure in the rural clinic where I worked; plus surgical abortions are beyond my scope of practice.

[Austin]

Reasoning like this is exactly why nurses aren't paid shit. There's always somebody willing to dole out the emotional blackmail ("Oh but isn't your calling worth more than mere money?", etc.) and there's always somebody willing to eat it up.

QFT. Why is it that people automatically blame frontline emergency services providers instead of the big corporations they work for? They do the same thing with teachers (if teachers really cared about the childrenz, they would never strike :roll: ). Why don't these same people consider for one minute why the kids aren't more important to the school board?

[Minerva]

When the postal workers went on strike last summer, they recognized that they provide an essential service for a lot of people, and therefore went on a rotational strike. The post got delivered, just more slowly. They applied common sense to their disruption, which, contrary to popular belief apparently, unions are capable of doing. I really can't see striking nurses cutting off all hospital services including the life-or-death ones. That's wouldn't make sense ethically or for the success of the strike. Would they still be choosing their right to strike over people's well-being? Yes, but that's not the same as putting people's lives in danger. I'd rather my elective surgery be put off for a few weeks and have the nurses attending be healthy, well rested and well paid. I believe that nurses' quality of life affects the quality of service they can provide, and I believe it has value in and of itself.