The Great Chick-fil-A Snake Oil "Faith" Hustle

[desertvixen]

thoughtful; I wonder if scarygirl realizes that the KJV was written by a gay English king who was forced to hide his being a homosexual in order to produce an heir for the English throne? ;) Whoops; that's the history nerd coming out again... I have been interested in European royalty history lately. *sorry for going a bit off-topic*

And stuff like this is why I can never understand how people can say history is boring... no need to apologize for being a history nerd or getting into European royalty history!

[doggie]

As far as my believing the bible as the unerring word, I base that on faith. I don't need historical data to prove what is I know in my heart to be true.

The difference between me and a lot of the fundamentalists is they compelely twist scripture when it comes to the treatment of women. They add things that just aren't there.

the heart is so easy to fool even a child can do it.

the saying religion was invented by smart people to control slow people and take their money is a very apt saying. it was so easy to control peoples hearts and beliefs if you just know the right words. its much harder if you have facts to back your heart up.

[Guest Anonymous]

BTW, Jocelyn or someone claiming to be her and using her formspring handle just showed up on her thread, in case people are getting bored with fundie_troll_54782.

[scarygirl]

Since you're done discussing gay marriage would you mind answering this question? I know that you don't twist scripture like the heathens here do, so I am really curious how you balance all of this out in your mind.

That verse in itself is simplly saying that if you do not correct your child to teach him right from wrong that when he dies his soul will go to hell, but if you do correct him when he dies his soul will not die with him as he will live forever in heaven.

You can stiil beat, smack, hit a child as a form of correction without beating them within an inch of their life. The punishment shoudl fit the crime. A tail being whipped should be a last resort.

I don't personally even like the sound of a baby crying, because to me it sounds like hurt whether they are just tired cry or I am in serious pain cry. THerefore, I personally would not be one to employ much if any corporal punishment.

And when I say baby, I mean toddler and older, I don't mean baby baby.

And to further clarify, I don't have children of my own. I don't wish to have any because of things I suffered when I was much younger. The sound of a baby crying is very triggering for me.

[CanadianHippie]

Says who? Maybe there's just a heaven...or just a hell. Maybe another religion is right and we'll all end up in their version of hell. :roll:

Question:

Who created hell?

What makes one deserve to be tortured for an eternity?

ASTROPHYSICS: Dr. Jack and Rexella Van Impe of Jack Van Impe Ministries, Rochester Hills, Michigan, for their discovery that black holes fulfill all the technical requirements to be the location of Hell.

[REFERENCE]

http://www.improbable.com/ig/winners/

I don't think anyone has found a place that meets the technical requirements for heaven yet, so we are all going to spend an eternity in black holes.

[Anxious Girl]

BTW, Jocelyn or someone claiming to be her and using her formspring handle just showed up on her thread, in case people are getting bored with fundie_troll_54782.

That's how many have been on here? :shock: * is amazed*

[Guest Anonymous]

That's how many have been on here? :shock: * is amazed*

**Disclaimer: I made that number up. ;)

scarygirl, I'm still waiting for the links to where you answered these questions.

How is it bullying to talk to you in a way that you don't find appealing on a website, but it's not bullying for a corporation to donate money to organizations that actively work to deny people civil rights, and encourage governments to kill their citizens?

Do you truly think that someone talking to you in an unpleasant manner on a forum is worse than not being able to marry the person you love, and fearing for or actually losing your life?

[thoughtful]

I am not sure what verses you mean, as there are several verses in the bible that state to not lie with like (men and men, women and women). There are any verses in the bible that I am aware that supports marriage as other than a husband and a wife.

Did you mean "there aren't any?"

I'm pretty sure the various ways someone could be married mentioned in the Bible have been posted in this thread several times, but I will find another source for you:

Polygynous Marriage

Probably the most common form of marriage in the bible, it is where a man has more than one wife.

Levirate Marriage

When a woman was widowed without a son, it became the responsibility of the brother-in-law or a close male relative to take her in and impregnate her. If the resulting child was a son, he would be considered the heir of her late husband. See Ruth, and the story of Onan (Gen. 38:6-10).

A man, a woman and her property — a female slave

The famous “handmaiden†sketch, as preformed by Abraham (Gen. 16:1-6) and Jacob (Gen. 30:4-5).

A man, one or more wives, and some concubines

The definition of a concubine varies from culture to culture, but they tended to be live-in mistresses. Concubines were tied to their “husband,†but had a lower status than a wife. Their children were not usually heirs, so they were safe outlets for sex without risking the line of succession. To see how badly a concubine could be treated, see the famous story of the Levite and his concubine (Judges 19:1-30).

A male soldier and a female prisoner of war

Women could be taken as booty from a successful campaign and forced to become wives or concubines. Deuteronomy 21:11-14 describes the process.

A male rapist and his victim

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 describes how an unmarried woman who had been raped must marry her attacker.

A male and female slave

A female slave could be married to a male slave without consent, presumably to produce more slaves.

and of course …

Monogamous, heterosexual marriage

What you might think of as the standard form of marriage, provided you think of arranged marriages as the standard. Also remember that inter-faith or cross-ethnic marriage were forbidden for large chunks of biblical history.

The important thing to realize here is that none of these models are described as better than any other. All appear to have been accepted.

So there you go. The next time someone says that we need to stick with biblical marriage in this country, you can ask them which of the eight kinds they would prefer, and why.

From http://www.patheos.com/blogs/unreasonab ... -marriage/

edited to fix quotes

[Koala]

There is a huge difference between a simple smack on the bottom and beating someone. Beating someone is having a parent get so mad and so out of control that you are having to hold the door with your body to stop them from coming at you. I know what this like, been there, done that.

Proverbs 23:13-14

Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

You can stiil beat, smack, hit a child as a form of correction without beating them within an inch of their life.

So which is it? Does the Bible advocate "a simple smack on the bottom" or "beating"? And does beating= having someone get so mad and out of control that you are holding the door to stop them from coming at you, or is it a "form of correction"?

Could it be that perhaps the Bible advocates beating and you actually disagree? Is it possible that no child deserves to have an adult "beat" them ever?

[Anxious Girl]

I'm gonna go read parts of a book and go to bed. 'Night, everyone. *yawns*

[scarygirl]

the heart is so easy to fool even a child can do it.

the saying religion was invented by smart people to control slow people and take their money is a very apt saying. it was so easy to control peoples hearts and beliefs if you just know the right words. its much harder if you have facts to back your heart up.

I don't believe in religion, Religion is having others intepret the bible for you.

I don't need a preacher or anyone else to tell me what I know to be true. I am more than capable of thinking for myself. I am not a slow person. A tired person some days, but not slow.

[doggie]

I don't believe in religion, Religion is having others intepret the bible for you.

I don't need a preacher or anyone else to tell me what I know to be true. I am more than capable of thinking for myself. I am not a slow person. A tired person some days, but not slow.

How do you work that out? Christianity is a religion and the bible is it's book. If you believe in the bible you are a christian and that's a religion.

[thoughtful]

How do you work that out? Christianity is a religion and the bible is it's book. If you believe in the bible you are a christian and that's a religion.

Not to mention, if you are not reading all the parts of the Bible in the original languages in which they were written, you are already letting someone interpret the Bible for you.

[CanadianHippie]

Not to mention, if you are not reading all the parts of the Bible in the original languages in which they were written, you are already letting someone interpret the Bible for you.

Shhhhut uuuup! That's logic. We don't want to frighten her.

[shesinsane]

Shhhhut uuuup! That's logic. We don't want to frighten her.

If the stupid burns smart folk, perhaps the smart burns stupid folk?

[Guest Anonymous]

scarygirl, I'm still waiting for the links to where you answered these questions.

How is it bullying to talk to you in a way that you don't find appealing on a website, but it's not bullying for a corporation to donate money to organizations that actively work to deny people civil rights, and encourage governments to kill their citizens?

Do you truly think that someone talking to you in an unpleasant manner on a forum is worse than not being able to marry the person you love, and fearing for or actually losing your life?

If you already answered these questions as you said you did then it should only take you about 30 seconds to link to where that went down because I surely can't find it. Unless you'd rather admit that you're a liar, a prevaricator, and coward.

[CanadianHippie]

If the stupid burns smart folk, perhaps the smart burns stupid folk?

No it just causes loose bowels and crankiness.

[Koala]

No it just causes loose bowels and crankiness.

I didn't even recognize you with your new avatar! Throws me for a loop every times someone changes :lol:

[scarygirl]

Not to mention, if you are not reading all the parts of the Bible in the original languages in which they were written, you are already letting someone interpret the Bible for you.

Have you ever read all of the parts of the Bible in the language that it was written? I know people are multi-lingual, but unless they have studied or lived that particular lanquage, most people have their trusty King James as their guide.

As to the religion issue, I consider myself a Christian, The different religious sects, Catholic, Prodestant, Baptist etc came much later. They weren't there at the beginning. It was just god and the word.

[thoughtful]

Have you ever read all of the parts of the Bible in the language that it was written? I know people are multi-lingual, but unless they have studied or lived that particular lanquage, most people have their trusty King James as their guide.

As to the religion issue, I consider myself a Christian, The different religious sects, Catholic, Prodestant, Baptist etc came much later. They weren't there at the beginning. It was just god and the word.

But you don't know that. There is lots of history that, if you knew it, might change your assumption that what you read in the KJV reflects the word of God, or that the various religious groups are artificial layers that might keep you from The Truth.

Unbeknown to yourself, you are reacting and responding to many layers of organized religion, and letting it guide you, just by relying on that one bad translation.

Oh, and I don't know anyone IRL who uses the KJV as their guide -- I only read about such people here on FJ. If you assume that "most people" rely on it, I suspect you live in a very tiny bubble, not knowing much about the greater world.

I am not a language scholar, which is why I asked for help. But I do know some Hebrew, and smatterings of a few other languages.

[Guest Anonymous]

Have you ever read all of the parts of the Bible in the language that it was written? I know people are multi-lingual, but unless they have studied or lived that particular lanquage, most people have their trusty King James as their guide.

As to the religion issue, I consider myself a Christian, The different religious sects, Catholic, Prodestant, Baptist etc came much later. They weren't there at the beginning. It was just god and the word.

Shorter scarygirl - words mean what I say they mean, definitions be damned! If I say something and can't defend it I backpedal and pretend it meant something entirely different! I don't answer questions, either. I prefer to lie and say that I did because I'm a prevaricating troll-coward.

You are very tiresome. It's like the fundie trolls all have the same freaking handbook. I guess there's nothing new under the sun, or on the internet.

**ETA:

Oh, and I don't know anyone IRL who uses the KJV as their guide -- I only read about such people here on FJ. If you assume that "most people" rely on it, I suspect you live in a very tiny bubble, not knowing much about the greater world.

I prefer the NASB for study, myself.

[scarygirl]

But you don't know that. There is lots of history that, if you knew it, might change your assumption that what you read in the KJV reflects the word of God, or that the various religious groups are artificial layers that might keep you from The Truth.

Unbeknown to yourself, you are reacting and responding to many layers of organized religion, and letting it guide you, just by relying on that one bad translation.

Oh, and I don't know anyone IRL who uses the KJV as their guide -- I only read about such people here on FJ. If you assume that "most people" rely on it, I suspect you live in a very tiny bubble, not knowing much about the greater world.

I am not a language scholar, which is why I asked for help. But I do know some Hebrew, and smatterings of a few other languages.

I mention the KJV, that is what I grew up with, but the Bible that I read is the NIV (New International Version).

[scarygirl]

Lissar:

This was my posting to you on page nine, concerning your first question:

I never said you were all terrible. I was reacting to the thread and the very specific comment that was made about bringing up this thread whereever I post. I have said all I am going to say on Chik Fil A and gay marriage. If Chik Fil A wants to support organizations that promote less than ethical behavior, you can do something about that by not eating their product. If enough people stop eating their product they will go out of business, simple as that.

Same way if enough of the other side stops buying Amazon, they will evenually go out of business. I have said it before and I will say it again, you can't legislate morality. That is why when certain legislation comes up, like the definition of marriage act, I don't even bother voting. Unless it has to do with the abuse of a child or animal I am not even there. Pick your causes and go forth.

And this is my add, no I don't think the way I am being talked to here is worse than someone being killed for their beliefs, whether gay or straight.

I don't believe in gay marriage, but I would never personally stand in someone's way if they wanted their loved one by their side when they are ill. I would also not deny someone their biological child simply because they are gay. Some legal protections are warranted. But to go as far as to say that god approves of such marriages, no, I don't think he approves based my understanding of the bible.

[Guest Anonymous]

Lissar:

This was my posting to you on page nine, concerning your first question:

I never said you were all terrible. I was reacting to the thread and the very specific comment that was made about bringing up this thread whereever I post. I have said all I am going to say on Chik Fil A and gay marriage. If Chik Fil A wants to support organizations that promote less than ethical behavior, you can do something about that by not eating their product. If enough people stop eating their product they will go out of business, simple as that.

Same way if enough of the other side stops buying Amazon, they will evenually go out of business. I have said it before and I will say it again, you can't legislate morality. That is why when certain legislation comes up, like the definition of marriage act, I don't even bother voting. Unless it has to do with the abuse of a child or animal I am not even there. Pick your causes and go forth.

And this is my add, no I don't think the way I am being talked to here is worse than someone being killed for their beliefs, whether gay or straight.

I don't believe in gay marriage, but I would never personally stand in someone's way if they wanted their loved one by their side when they are ill. I would also not deny someone their biological child simply because they are gay. Some legal protections are warranted. But to go as far as to say that god approves of such marriages, no, I don't think he approves based my understanding of the bible.

Thank goodness for that one glimmer of sense you've shown. Are you willing to admit that you're not actually being bullied yet? Your posts aren't being censored, edited, or deleted either, which I assure you would not be the case if I posted my opinion on a fundie forum or blog the way you have posted yours here.

I don't actually give a fuck if you think God approves of gay marriage. You can think and believe whatever you want about that. What concerns me is our secular government providing all of its citizens with equality and civil rights.

[CanadianHippie]

I didn't even recognize you with your new avatar! Throws me for a loop every times someone changes :lol:

:lol: Well I don't change often so I'll let you get used to this one.