Sweet Jesus, now they pray extra when walking

[bouncyball]

Two things: Sarah's grammar sounds like an English as a Foreign Language student from the 1800s, and how can praying and getting silence in return be sweet or uplifting? I'm not saying this in a 'fuck you sheeple I'm an atheist!' way, I just genuinely don't understand how pouring out your heart and hearing nothing in return is rewarding. What also freaks me out is 'God putting it on their heart' or 'feeling his comfort' is all the doing of their own minds (or so it seems to me). It's like having an echo chamber with your own self created God.

[thoughtful]

Don't they ever just...run out of stuff to pray about?

Nah -- In fact, the walk itself could supply grist for the mill:

LORD, prevent me from stepping on that crack and breaking my mother's back -- she already has enough back problems.

LORD, prevent the wind from blowing our skirts up.

LORD, make sure that barking dog is behind a fence.

LORD, I'm hot -- don't let Dad drink all of the iced tea before we get home.

LORD, forgive me for making iced tea an idol, and wishing my masterful, wonderful father not have all the iced tea he wants.

LORD, if I am worthy, do not let that spot that's rubbing inside my shoe become a blister.

LORD, if it be Thy will that a blister forms, let me be truly humble in accepting the trial you have put before me - well, on my foot more than before me, but you know what I mean, LORD.

LORD, let me put forth my left foot, then my right, then my left, then my right, then my left . . .

etc. :(

[MamaJunebug]

Nah -- In fact, the walk itself could supply grist for the mill:

LORD, prevent me from stepping on that crack and breaking my mother's back -- she already has enough back problems.

LORD, prevent the wind from blowing our skirts up.

LORD, make sure that barking dog is behind a fence.

LORD, I'm hot -- don't let Dad drink all of the iced tea before we get home.

LORD, forgive me for making iced tea an idol, and wishing my masterful, wonderful father not have all the iced tea he wants.

LORD, if I am worthy, do not let that spot that's rubbing inside my shoe become a blister.

LORD, if it be Thy will that a blister forms, let me be truly humble in accepting the trial you have put before me - well, on my foot more than before me, but you know what I mean, LORD.

LORD, let me put forth my left foot, then my right, then my left, then my right, then my left . . .

etc. :(

I've been chuckling/snickering through this whole thread, but thoughtful's got me cackling!

Funny thing is, I pray a lot - but almost always silently. is Reversal Anna suggesting spoken-word prayers during the walks?? Well, that will at least prove to the girls that they have good oxygen flow. :!: I also don't tell folks that I"m praying - the first line in this paragraph is one of the few times ever.

I'm with the FJs who think Anna has an ulterior motive in this. It's been proposed that she and John are planning a sibilng revolt, or at least removal from the lifestyle. The more she keeps Sarah and Anna talking to God, the more she can have time with her own thoughts on The Plan.

[Witsec7]

The only person I've known to pray while walking is a nun, and in her case it was kind of part of her job description....

I do a walking meditation most days, I think it's pretty common in Buddhism.

[sparkles]

If Sarah posts about praying for a lovely May Day on one of their walks, we'll know it's a message from Gilead.

[NurseNell]

I do a walking meditation most days, I think it's pretty common in Buddhism.

I think it's pretty common in life. I walk a lot and I use it for meditation, praying, and working through things. It's why I prefer to walk alone.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I listen to the NHK news on my iPod while I'm walking (or using my elliptical machine). I'm 100% on board with "might as well not waste that time" but my use case is rather different.

[darkplumaged]

I pray and talk through things in my head while making long drives alone--but I also don't have two Bible times a day and an extended time of "personal prayer." :roll:

Wandering away from the topic, but... the Maxwells are among the few fundies I can think of who seem absolutely incapable of relating to or connecting with non-fundies. I don't call their ministry to the Elderly an attempt to really connect with people--they're just patronizing people who may or may not have the cognizance or mobility to get away from them.

[bionicmlle]

Terrifyingly, based on my (admittedly limited) knowledge of the life of modern nuns, that is true.

Even Maria Von Trapp could go on walks by herself. Her heart was blessed, after all, with the sound of music!

[pixydust]

I don't know how they pray so much! When I was a teen our pastor suggested that everyone strive for 15 minutes of prayer time a day. So I would try, i would pray for everyone that I could think of, including our youth pastor and his wife, our pastor, etc....and it would be, like, 4 minutes! So then my mind would wonder....to the cute boy in youth group (oooh, Jesus please let Sean have a good day at school and not get hurt at football practice) then to the girl in youth group that I didn't like (good one! Jesus, help me like K, even if she is snotty) to how unfair it was that I had to hide my Smiths cds (Yes! Another thing to pray about! Please change my parents heart and let me listen to The Smiths, even if Morrissey is gay).....8 minutes, dammit!

I never made it to 15 minutes, ever. Even praying about music that I wanted to listen to.

[LucySnowe]

I do a walking meditation most days, I think it's pretty common in Buddhism.

Interesting; I didn't know about that. Is it usually done aloud or silently?

[apple1]

I think it's pretty common in life. I walk a lot and I use it for meditation, praying, and working through things. It's why I prefer to walk alone.

That. I need to re-start this, I think.

[heinz57]

Two things: Sarah's grammar sounds like an English as a Foreign Language student from the 1800s, and how can praying and getting silence in return be sweet or uplifting? I'm not saying this in a 'fuck you sheeple I'm an atheist!' way, I just genuinely don't understand how pouring out your heart and hearing nothing in return is rewarding. What also freaks me out is 'God putting it on their heart' or 'feeling his comfort' is all the doing of their own minds (or so it seems to me). It's like having an echo chamber with your own self created God.

I don't think she sees it this way. My guess is that whenever she comes to a decision/conclusion, she attributes it to God. You say "I have to think it through", and she probably does the same thing, but sees it as "God's voice".

The sad thing is, that when you thought something through and present your conclusion, you are ready to present arguments that led you to it, hear counter-arguments and possibly change your mind. Once you attribute your thought process to God, there is no discussion possible. If someone argues differently you just flash the "God told be so" card, and possibly conclude that the different viewpoint is Satan.

It's said and worrying, because it doesn't encourage logical thinking and a healthy discussion. It simultaneously takes away the responsibility for your conclusions, and demonizes any other conclusions.

[margiebargie]

I don't think she sees it this way. My guess is that whenever she comes to a decision/conclusion, she attributes it to God. You say "I have to think it through", and she probably does the same thing, but sees it as "God's voice".

The sad thing is, that when you thought something through and present your conclusion, you are ready to present arguments that led you to it, hear counter-arguments and possibly change your mind. Once you attribute your thought process to God, there is no discussion possible. If someone argues differently you just flash the "God told be so" card, and possibly conclude that the different viewpoint is Satan.

It's said and worrying, because it doesn't encourage logical thinking and a healthy discussion. It simultaneously takes away the responsibility for your conclusions, and demonizes any other conclusions.

Well said. And all the praying is just self-brainwashing.

Plus I agree with whoever said this was an example of religious scrupulosity. It's a compulsive disorder.

[Witsec7]

Interesting; I didn't know about that. Is it usually done aloud or silently?

Mine is done in silence, it's contemplative simply because it is grounded in mindfulness. I silence my mind and thoughts, and am present for the walk. I feel the motion and effort and muscles that make the walking possible, the vision that gives me the ability to see and perceive, I hear and listen for all the different sound levels around me.

The first segment of my walk ends in a wetlands park, where I do a meditation on peace. The return walk is a power walk, where I distance myself from the meditative experience and permit it to become part of my actions. Round trip it's bit over 4 miles.

[heinz57]

I don't think she sees it this way. My guess is that whenever she comes to a decision/conclusion, she attributes it to God. You say "I have to think it through", and she probably does the same thing, but sees it as "God's voice".

The sad thing is, that when you thought something through and present your conclusion, you are ready to present arguments that led you to it, hear counter-arguments and possibly change your mind. Once you attribute your thought process to God, there is no discussion possible. If someone argues differently you just flash the "God told be so" card, and possibly conclude that the different viewpoint is Satan.

It's said and worrying, because it doesn't encourage logical thinking and a healthy discussion. It simultaneously takes away the responsibility for your conclusions, and demonizes any other conclusions.

As an afterthought, the "God told me so" probably isn't the ultimate card - it only is if you are in a position of power.

My guess is that there is no way in hell Sarah can tell Steve that she prayed on moving out and God told her she was right - Steve wil say "God certainly didn't tell you so, because he told me the contrary". You can't question your father's prayers, but he can then tell you that since God doesn't contradict himself, and Steve has a direct line to God, you certainly listened to Satan.

So you don't get to move out, plus you are made to feel guilty that you listened to Satan's whispers. Which, by the way, only confirms that you can't move out on your own because you're weak and don't see the difference between Satan and God. Basically, you can't win.

[SisiL78]

Poor Sarah, if she's praying for anything its for G-d to send her a husband. She's probably not even very picky at this point. I find it so sad that she's spending all this time writing about Joseph and Elizabeth, and even more time renovating their house when all the while she doesn't have a real chance at ever having her own house or even her own life. Its one thing to never have a real house, that's fine. But, this girl won't ever have so much as 100 square feet to call "her own" to do with as she pleases and to come and go from as she wants. I never thought about it but she does have less freedom than a Nun. I see Nuns at the JCC gym all the time. They have really demanding lives, but they are still human beings who do not have a dictator running every second of their lives. Despite a declaration of poverty they still have a few bucks to spend on coffee or a new t-shirt or whatever, no one is watching every penny as it leaves their purses. Does Sarah even have the freedom to buy a new outfit without having Daddy approve the purchase? If she wanted to just go and read a book at a Starbucks would she be allowed to? Has she, since her family went fundy, even been to a library and been allowed to borrow a book without question?

Forget nuns, I know 5 year olds who have more freedom and independence than Sarah. Its so friggin' sad but so true at the same time.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

And yeah, in this courtship system there's nowhere for Sarah to mail off her OWN resume and ask for it to be shopped around, is there? Nor can she go ask for resumes to be mailed TO her. She can't initiate anything at all and that's the really effed up part of it all.

If you can't meet eligible partners "in the wild," in places with a matchmaker system you can go request some! But these fundies, no, they don't even have that.

[MonkeyMomma]

Terrifyingly, based on my (admittedly limited) knowledge of the life of modern nuns, that is true.

Absolutely. They could likely go to college, get a job, wear pants ... the whole shebang, really.

[Justme]

Poor Sarah, if she's praying for anything its for G-d to send her a husband. She's probably not even very picky at this point. I find it so sad that she's spending all this time writing about Joseph and Elizabeth, and even more time renovating their house when all the while she doesn't have a real chance at ever having her own house or even her own life. Its one thing to never have a real house, that's fine. But, this girl won't ever have so much as 100 square feet to call "her own" to do with as she pleases and to come and go from as she wants. I never thought about it but she does have less freedom than a Nun. I see Nuns at the JCC gym all the time. They have really demanding lives, but they are still human beings who do not have a dictator running every second of their lives. Despite a declaration of poverty they still have a few bucks to spend on coffee or a new t-shirt or whatever, no one is watching every penny as it leaves their purses. Does Sarah even have the freedom to buy a new outfit without having Daddy approve the purchase? If she wanted to just go and read a book at a Starbucks would she be allowed to? Has she, since her family went fundy, even been to a library and been allowed to borrow a book without question?

Forget nuns, I know 5 year olds who have more freedom and independence than Sarah. Its so friggin' sad but so true at the same time.

The picture of Sarah down on her hands and knees cleaning Joe's tiled floor was incredibly sad. She had that smile-that-never-reaches-her-eyes...... :( She should be cleaning her own home (even as a single WOMAN), not serving her brothers.....

[emilymea]

Absolutely. They could likely go to college, get a job, wear pants ... the whole shebang, really.

I have a high school friend who is entering a convent in less than a month and I think she will have more freedom than the Maxwell girls. A is entering a cloistered community, but the women of her order still go to college, get masters degrees, and teach school. (She'll eventually get her masters in teaching while she's in the convent.) Sure, she will wear a habit and veil in about a year, so no pants for her, but she seems really happy with her decision. It's her decision to live a life of prayer and Mariam devotion - no one else made the decision for her.

[Hane]

...Sarah's grammar sounds like an English as a Foreign Language student from the 1800s....What also freaks me out is 'God putting it on their heart' or 'feeling his comfort'...

The stilted, consistent use of these religious terms amounts to a series of shibboleths--codespeak that identifies the writer/speaker as "one of US!!!" I often wonder exactly how meaningful--or empty--these words are to the folks who use them. I'm tempted to put them in the same category as my sisters' greeting me by saying, "Jane, you ignorant slut," or "Thag you, Hane," or my brother-in-law addressing me as "Hane of Hanover." Family stuff we say to each other because we're, well, family--but we really don't care if other people "get it" or not.

The Maxwells are using the "God putting it on my heart"-type stuff to stamp themselves with a name brand that will earn them approval with a certain group of people.

[contrary]

omg, "Jane, you ignorant slut!".

I love it.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

Actually "Prayer Walking" is often a nice thing--soothing music in the ipad and thinking your prayers as you walk or just enjoying God's Creation. It's very common women's activity in many very mainline churches. It doesn't have to be anything fanatical. Many people believe that a God wants use to bring ALL our concerns to him. Many people use this prayer time as a time to just be conscious of God's presence--no words, just consciousness. It doesn't have to mean praying for a new washer or for their heathen neighbors to come to God. It can just be for renewal and refreshing. I'm don't know that this is what THIS woman means, I just want to show another side of it all.

[SisiL78]

Actually "Prayer Walking" is often a nice thing--soothing music in the ipad and thinking your prayers as you walk or just enjoying God's Creation. It's very common women's activity in many very mainline churches. It doesn't have to be anything fanatical. Many people believe that a God wants use to bring ALL our concerns to him. Many people use this prayer time as a time to just be conscious of God's presence--no words, just consciousness. It doesn't have to mean praying for a new washer or for their heathen neighbors to come to God. It can just be for renewal and refreshing. I'm don't know that this is what THIS woman means, I just want to show another side of it all.

I honestly can't see any of the Maxwells owning an iPod or Sarah having the ability to pray as she would like. I suspect its group prayer as prescribed by Daddy Maxwell.