What's up with Jocelyn??

[Guest Anonymous]

.... in different ways, some not clearly seen yet. But it did hurt our family structure and put down strengths and pressured weaknesses to excel because of gender roles. Pushed us into unnatural moulds as individuals.

By no longer accepting the validity of the Bible...

Yes, I do, but the reason I didn't answer that question 'maturely' on my formspring is because I share important things - such as life goals and dreams - with people who are important to my life.

Lots of people read the Bible and don't think America is Babylon. That's a pretty far out interpretation, to most Christians I have met.

If you're going to hang out here people are going to ask you a lot of questions about all sorts of things. Of course you don't have to answer them but it's pretty silly to post and not expect that to happen. What do you want to major in/do when you grow up/where would you like to work/etc. is not usually considered a terribly personal question, nor an inappropriate one.

If you've left fundamentalism and you don't want to tell others that there is one true way to live, bash LGBTQ people, put down those who are not like you, and all of the other fundie nastiness then I truly have no problem with you and I wish you the best. I hope you heal and have a great life.

[redheadhippy]

Lots of people read the Bible and don't think America is Babylon. That's a pretty far out interpretation, to most Christians I have met.

If you're going to hang out here people are going to ask you a lot of questions about all sorts of things. Of course you don't have to answer them but it's pretty silly to post and not expect that to happen. What do you want to major in/do when you grow up/where would you like to work/etc. is not usually considered a terribly personal question, nor an inappropriate one.

If you've left fundamentalism and you don't want to tell others that there is one true way to live, bash LGBTQ people, put down those who are not like you, and all of the other fundie nastiness then I truly have no problem with you and I wish you the best. I hope you heal and have a great life.

Not sure what kind of answer you were expecting to that question... they don't believe it anymore because of the belief (or lack thereof) in the bible, and yes I realize it's pretty far out for most christians.

Thanks, that's just what I'm doing.

[lilith]

You aren't a child. You seemed to deeply believe your family's religious positions and actively promote them. Did your revelation about the validity of the bible happen simultaneously to theirs? If you had reached that position independent of your family what would you have done about changing your life to reflect it?

How are the younger kids dealing with all the dramatic changes in their lives?

[Soldevi]

If you're going to hang out here people are going to ask you a lot of questions about all sorts of things. Of course you don't have to answer them but it's pretty silly to post and not expect that to happen. What do you want to major in/do when you grow up/where would you like to work/etc. is not usually considered a terribly personal question, nor an inappropriate one.

ITA. These are normal questions people ask. Similar to where are you from, do you have family, where are you working/studying etc. I hear them everytime I meet a new person and I ask them back, too. It is totally ok not to answer or tell those only to closest friends but I don't understand public formspring if its only purpose is to be rude to other people who ask these kind of normal everyday conversation questions. That is what I meant with immaturity.

Considering your extreme judgmental views (in public) earlier, it is not surprising that people are curious. And that does not mean all of them are wishing ill.

Edit: hatehatehate typing with my phone

[Guest Anonymous]

Lots of people will be interested in your story, if that's what you want to share, Jocelyn. f you and Leandro just want an audience for your post-courtship bickering, then you'll both probably get smacked down quite quickly.

[redheadhippy]

Regardless of anything else that has been said when things were brought to my attention concerning questioning the bible I did immediately start studying, and after several months came to some serious conclusions on my own. I didn't really start to see the majority, though, until about March. I shared things with my family as I felt confident in what I was concluding. Regardless of their position, I would have continued to do what I did.

The younger kids are doing well and are happy where we are at.

[redheadhippy]

f you and Leandro just want an audience for your post-courtship bickering, then you'll both probably get smacked down quite quickly.

Nah, thanks. I was just contributing to the conversation.

[lilith]

Regardless of anything else that has been said when things were brought to my attention concerning questioning the bible I did immediately start studying, and after several months came to some serious conclusions on my own. I didn't really start to see the majority, though, until about March. I shared things with my family as I felt confident in what I was concluding. Regardless of their position, I would have continued to do what I did.

The younger kids are doing well and are happy where we are at.

But how did you explain to them that the text and culture and belief system that had been central to their whole lives, responsible form their move to another country, for their isolation from mainstream culture, for the rituals practiced within their home and the stories told to them, wasn't real?

How do you explain to a child that the people it trusts most have told them about Jesus and heaven and a strict standard of behavior expected to join Jesus in heaven, and gender roles defined by a book and so on and so on, but now those people have decided it isn't true, so the rules and the reasons change, and we're moving again, and girls and boys are equal, and you aren't sinning, you are just a naughty child, and these things are allowed now when they weren't before, and, and, and......

I just don't see how it could be simple for the younger kids and how they could simply be doing well and happy without a hefty dose of confusion.

I'm not trying to be a bitch or discourage you, but I do think it's a very relevant question.

[Guest stargirl]

She can't do anything right, hm? She stays fundy, y'all bitch. She leaves fundy-ism, y'all bitch. Y'all just like to bitch.

[redheadhippy]

She can't do anything right, hm? She stays fundy, y'all bitch. She leaves fundy-ism, y'all bitch. Y'all just like to bitch.

Seriously. No fcking joke.

[Guest Anonymous]

Asking searching questions does not equal bitching.

And Jocelyn, you are clearly familiar with the way things go down here. You can participate in any way you like (within the rules) or you can leave. But this is not a playground for little girls. No-one here is likely to coo and squee and ask ridiculous questions about your hair colour or your favourite food, as they do on your formspring. Deal with it.

[lilith]

Seriously. No fcking joke.

Um, I'm not bitching.

I ammvery happy for Jocelyn and her entire family that they are in a position to reevaluate and define their own beliefs.

I am just curious how that is going for minor children who have always had their beliefs defined for them, their access to alternative views controlled, and are now being told that reality is very different to everything they have always been taught.

I am curious how that works.

Do the adults say "we were wrong, this is how it actually is?"

Or

" we were wrong, we're not sure how it actually is"?

Or

"we were right about some things but not others"?

Or

" we aren't sure what is true and are trying to work it out, and we'll give you the tools and facilitate you working it out for yourself, even if you reach a different conclusion to us"?

Or does life just change overnight?

Are some of the kids resisting the change and holding onto the beliefs and culture they were raised to revere?

And if so, is that respected, encouraged, discouraged, banned?

It's an extreme change from an extreme belief set, and I am curious.

You came here offering to answer questions. I am not criticizing, just asking.

[redheadhippy]

But how did you explain to them that the text and culture and belief system that had been central to their whole lives, responsible form their move to another country, for their isolation from mainstream culture, for the rituals practiced within their home and the stories told to them, wasn't real?

How do you explain to a child that the people it trusts most have told them about Jesus and heaven and a strict standard of behavior expected to join Jesus in heaven, and gender roles defined by a book and so on and so on, but now those people have decided it isn't true, so the rules and the reasons change, and we're moving again, and girls and boys are equal, and you aren't sinning, you are just a naughty child, and these things are allowed now when they weren't before, and, and, and......

I just don't see how it could be simple for the younger kids and how they could simply be doing well and happy without a hefty dose of confusion.

I'm not trying to be a bitch or discourage you, but I do think it's a very relevant question.

Ya'll don't know anything about how things work around here. You can read whatever you want (written by one of us or not) and still not get what really goes on IRL. Not even this.

How does one explain... they don't live in a bubble. They aren't expected to mindlessly follow whatever they are told. There isn't a dictatorship in my house. We're an open family and everyone gets their own say. They weren't sat down and had a belief system drilled into their heads for 6hours a day. Also, I haven't believed in going to heaven or hell for several years now, and it was never used as a ploy or threat to scare anyone into behaving a certain way in our family. And, my neighbors growing up were gay. We didn't avoid them like the plague, we never gave them the 'you're going to hell' speech - or any speech, or ever refused the gifts they'd bring us from their garden (or hesitated to take them things or help them). They were our neighbors and they were good people.

[lilith]

Ya'll don't know anything about how things work around here. You can read whatever you want (written by one of us or not) and still not get what really goes on IRL. Not even this.

How does one explain... they don't live in a bubble. They aren't expected to mindlessly follow whatever they are told. There isn't a dictatorship in my house. We're an open family and everyone gets their own say. They weren't sat down and had a belief system drilled into their heads for 6hours a day. Also, I haven't believed in going to heaven or hell for several years now, and it was never used as a ploy or threat to scare anyone into behaving a certain way in our family. And, my neighbors growing up were gay. We didn't avoid them like the plague, we never gave them the 'you're going to hell' speech - or any speech, or ever refused the gifts they'd bring us from their garden (or hesitated to take them things or help them). They were our neighbors and they were good people.

I'm not questioning that.

But the children of the family were raised to believe, your mother stressed that. Your family was Torah observant and went through the rituals associated with that.

You moved, with small children, to a third world country. Their standard of living and entire life changed dramatically overnight. I can't believe they were totally sheltered from the "end times, USA is the great Babylon" theories.

Then suddenly none of that matters, and they are back to their old life, back in the sinful USA, and the religion that has dominated their lives and they probably gained comfort from, isn't being practiced.

It's a whole heap of massive changes for young kids, and I don't see how "kids are doing fine, we've always been mainstream, look, we even have gay neighbors, and we never even shunned them", explains the impact it must have had on them.

[redheadhippy]

Do the adults say "we were wrong, this is how it actually is?"

Or

" we were wrong, we're not sure how it actually is"?

Or

"we were right about some things but not others"?

Or

" we aren't sure what is true and are trying to work it out, and we'll give you the tools and facilitate you working it out for yourself, even if you reach a different conclusion to us"?

Or does life just change overnight?

Are some of the kids resisting the change and holding onto the beliefs and culture they were raised to revere?

And if so, is that respected, encouraged, discouraged, banned?

It's an extreme change from an extreme belief set, and I am curious.

You came here offering to answer questions. I am not criticizing, just asking.

They say... I'm wrong and I'm not sure how it is supposed to be, but this is what I'm doing right now. I will change if I find out this is wrong. You tell me what you think about y, x or, z and we can exchange ideas and opinions.

No, they aren't resisting. The biggest thing anyone wondered about was a sabbath meal we all had together and we stopped doing that when we stopped keeping the jewish sunset to sunset day. That happened almost a year ago.

[lilith]

They say... I'm wrong and I'm not sure how it is supposed to be, but this is what I'm doing right now. I will change if I find out this is wrong. You tell me what you think about y, x or, z and we can exchange ideas and opinions.

No, they aren't resisting. The biggest thing anyone wondered about was a sabbath meal we all had together and we stopped doing that when we stopped keeping the jewish sunset to sunset day. That happened almost a year ago.

That sounds very healthy, and I'm glad.

I am curious about wether some of the kids want to hang on to the beliefs and rituals and how your parents would feel about that. Familiarity provides so much comfort for kids.

Are they in school? Hope they are enjoying it if they are.

[redheadhippy]

That sounds very healthy, and I'm glad.

I am curious about wether some of the kids want to hang on to the beliefs and rituals and how your parents would feel about that. Familiarity provides so much comfort for kids.

Are they in school? Hope they are enjoying it if they are.

Beyond on the sabbath 'ritual' of a family meal, I have no idea what rituals you mean. Oh we did look for the new moon but after awhile we said to hell with it. HAHA

I really can't think of anything any of the children want to hang on to, and they're all sleeping right now or I'd ask them.

[pomology]

Regardless of anything else that has been said when things were brought to my attention concerning questioning the bible I did immediately start studying, and after several months came to some serious conclusions on my own. I didn't really start to see the majority, though, until about March. I shared things with my family as I felt confident in what I was concluding. Regardless of their position, I would have continued to do what I did.

The younger kids are doing well and are happy where we are at.

Do you still believe in God? Or just a God (or multiple gods)? You don't have to answer this if you don't want to, because it IS kinda a personal, intrusive question. I'm just curious, because it seems like something that might go hand in hand with no longer accepting the validity of the Bible. Then again, there are a lot of people who believe in God who don't believe in religious legalism.

[Deleted05]

Have you seen any backlash regarding this from the other girls who posted on Feelin' Feminine? Do you think many of them know, or even had a suspicion?

[treemom]

She can't do anything right, hm? She stays fundy, y'all bitch. She leaves fundy-ism, y'all bitch. Y'all just like to bitch.

Well unfortunately Jocelyn and her family guided people deeper and deeper into patriarchal fundiesm. So until she or her family goes public with how and why it failed them I think we have a right to bitch. Going public doesn't have to happen here...

This is just like all the failed courtships or divorces that gave pieces of people's hearts away but gets whitewashed or just deleted from existence.

[Guest Anonymous]

Seriously. No fcking joke.

I wasn't aware that asking questions of someone who said she was here to join the conversation, and then wishing that person well, is bitching. Please explain how that works. I haven't seen a single person bitch at Jocelyn since she arrived. Asking questions isn't bitching.

Jocelyn, if you want to join the conversation, by all means do. But right now you've come into someone else's house and acted like a snotty jerk. If you want it to be, then Free Jinger can be a great resource as you work through any issues regarding your former fundamentalism. There are a lot of people here who have walked that road. We even have some ex-Messianic Jews, which is probably the most similar group to your situation that is available.

Not being a fundamentalist is, in my opinion, a move toward a healthy emotional life. It can take time to let go of being judgemental and most of us deal with a lot of anger, either immediately after leaving the system, or even delayed years later. Many people also deal with a sense of sadness and loss. It's a lot to process and I'm purposely taking it easy with you because I get that. There's no expectation of niceness here, though. If you expect to be handled with kid gloves all the time by everyone then this is not going to be a comfortable place for you and maybe your conversations would be better had elsewhere, for your sake.

**ETA: People really have been quite gentle with you. If you don't like/can't take what has happened here so far, I suggest closing the tab and leaving it alone. The rules and the FAQ are pretty clear.

[mrdefrauder]

..........

[Wolfie]

I wasn't aware that asking questions of someone who said she was here to join the conversation, and then wishing that person well, is bitching. Please explain how that works. I haven't seen a single person bitch at Jocelyn since she arrived. Asking questions isn't bitching.

Jocelyn, if you want to join the conversation, by all means do. But right now you've come into someone else's house and acted like a snotty jerk. If you want it to be, then Free Jinger can be a great resource as you work through any issues regarding your former fundamentalism. There are a lot of people here who have walked that road. We even have some ex-Messianic Jews, which is probably the most similar group to your situation that is available.

Not being a fundamentalist is, in my opinion, a move toward a healthy emotional life. It can take time to let go of being judgemental and most of us deal with a lot of anger, either immediately after leaving the system, or even delayed years later. Many people also deal with a sense of sadness and loss. It's a lot to process and I'm purposely taking it easy with you because I get that. There's no expectation of niceness here, though. If you expect to be handled with kid gloves all the time by everyone then this is not going to be a comfortable place for you and maybe your conversations would be better had elsewhere, for your sake.

**ETA: People really have been quite gentle with you. If you don't like/can't take what has happened here so far, I suggest closing the tab and leaving it alone. The rules and the FAQ are pretty clear.

THIS.

Also, it is perfectly okay to not know what you believe and when somebody asks you you can tell them that you are still working things out. You don't have to have the answer to everything.

[mrdefrauder]

..........

[fundiefun]

How come Jacque up and fled to Costa Rica fearing it was "babylon" just from a book she read. Because I don't know anyone who would pack up their kids and leave the country over a book you read. This was Jacque's main reason because she had tried to get me to believe the whole FEMA camp conspiracy and even advertised the book on her blog for awhile.