Well I see why Catholics are not real christians.

[Witsec7]

About the Crusades, I enthusiastically recommend Amin Maalouf's "Crusades Through Arab Eyes"

http://www.amazon.com/Crusades-Through- ... 0863560237

It's non-fiction but a really easy read, and it's a great eye-opener on how the Arabs saw the events.

(not breaking the link because it's Amazon)

This is a fantastic book. I too endorse it as an easy yet informative read.

[Arete]

^ Seconded. Or thirded (?) This is a great book.

[heinz57]

This is a fantastic book. I too endorse it as an easy yet informative read.

Completely OT, but if you like this I also recommend Maalouf's "Samarkand" if you don't know it yet (this one is fiction). In a way about dealing with fundies (although different flavor and different times) - it's one of my favorite book ever.

[Witsec7]

Completely OT, but if you like this I also recommend Maalouf's "Samarkand" if you don't know it yet (this one is fiction). In a way about dealing with fundies (although different flavor and different times) - it's one of my favorite book ever.

TY I'll put it on my reading list.

[heinz57]

TY I'll put it on my reading list.

I hope you'll like it - let me know when you've read it (warning - it almost always leads to searching for Omar Khayyam's Rubayiat)

[Esther]

Just got back from a trip and caught up on this thread, and dude, I cannot wrap my head around the fact that some people seriously think Catholicism is not a Christian religion. I grew up in a predominantly agnostic, historically Catholic country and through all my years of Catholic-lite religious schooling, I was never quite told that apparently for some reason various Protestants didn't actually consider us Christians. Then I came to the US. Well.

Anyway, as lots of people have stated previously in this thread: of course Catholicism is fucking Christianity. See the whole divinity of Jesus thing. Also Eastern Schism and Protestant Reformation. I think people who claim Catholics aren't Christians should take a refresher course in the history of their own religion - but then I had some Protestant girl tell me once, as I tried to tell her about the Eastern Schism, that "that was what I believed, but her religion believed differently". All right then, snowflake. You just stay in Historical Ignorance Land.

[pixydust]

You misunderstood me. I do not want to "justify" the Inquisition. No matter if we like something or not, we should look at it as unbiased as possible, and if we're looking at historical phenomenons, acknowledging the bad things AND the good things will lead to the most accurate appraisal. Even the worst things in history can lead to positive changes - that does not make the things that happened better, but it doesn't make the positive changes worse, either.

If those changes could have been brought about in another matter is an entirely different question and futile, because they weren't.

Sorry that I had to bail yesterday, it was my daughter's 7th birthday party, and the little nut told me on Thursday that she didn't want toys, just video games and art supplies....so off to the store I went to return some stuff! Not many kids get excited over a ream of copy paper, mine does.

I'm very passionate about history, and that we must understand the mistakes of the past or we will repeat them. I think that we have to remember that real people have been tortured and murdered and treated worse than vermin. Those people have to be thought of first, the advancements 2nd. IMO advancements aren't as important as human lives.

[emmiedahl]

Actually, there were a number of splinter Catholic groups persecuted by the Roman Catholic Church prior to the protestant reformation, such as Cathars and Lollards; not to mention the divide between the churches in Rome and Constantinople which led to a significant amount of bloodshed.

They are not to my knowledge major Christian groups now. Most mainstream Western forms of Christianity hail back to the Catholic Church.

[emmiedahl]

I think people who claim Catholics aren't Christians should take a refresher course in the history of their own religion - but then I had some Protestant girl tell me once, as I tried to tell her about the Eastern Schism, that "that was what I believed, but her religion believed differently". All right then, snowflake. You just stay in Historical Ignorance Land.

It's funny how they turn all relativist when they are confronted by fact. I wish I had a quarter for every time someone told me they just don't believe in evolution so it should not be taught in school. I ask "Do you believe in gravity? What about addition?"

[Esther]

It's funny how they turn all relativist when they are confronted by fact. I wish I had a quarter for every time someone told me they just don't believe in evolution so it should not be taught in school. I ask "Do you believe in gravity? What about addition?"

I know, right? It boggles the mind. :shock:

What got me about this was that it wasn't even anything remotely political, as evolution (sadly and ridiculously) is. I mean, how can you plain NOT BELIEVE IN THE EASTERN SCHISM? But then I suppose there's people who believe the Bible was written in English, so...

[freejoytoo]

Like the whackjobs who say Santa Claus means Satan's Claws because they're too dumb to think that maybe the name came from a DIFFERENT LANGUAGE.

[ShesCrafty]

Like the whackjobs who say Santa Claus means Satan's Claws because they're too dumb to think that maybe the name came from a DIFFERENT LANGUAGE.

Sorry to go OT, but I have never heard this before and find it hilarious! I now have the "Santa Claus is Coming to Town" song stuck in my head but instead I hear "Satan's Claws are coming...to town" :twisted:.

Carry on...

[OkToBeTakei]

Like the whackjobs who say Santa Claus means Satan's Claws because they're too dumb to think that maybe the name came from a DIFFERENT LANGUAGE.

Hahaha ..Had never heard that before.

Slightly OT or maybe not. Can somebody tell me or point me in the right direction of where The Baptist church originates? My knowledge is very poor on this.

[heinz57]

I must live under a rock as I have never heard this before, but for some reason I find it hilarious! I now have the "Santa Claus is Coming to Town" song stuck in my head but instead I hear "Satan's Claws are coming...to town" :twisted:. I'm weird, I know.

Oh, that reminded me of the time GW Bush came to France on a state visit and at a meeting he was saying that France doesn't support entrepreneurs. Once he finished the interpreter got to work and he heard her say "La France ne soutient pas les entrepreneurs". On which he interrupted and said "See, this is your problem in France! You don't even have your own word for it" :lol:

[ShesCrafty]

Oh, that reminded me of the time GW Bush came to France on a state visit and at a meeting he was saying that France doesn't support entrepreneurs. Once he finished the interpreter got to work and he heard her say "La France ne soutient pas les entrepreneurs". On which he interrupted and said "See, this is your problem in France! You don't even have your own word for it" :lol:

Oh, crap, you quoted me before my edit and now I really do look weird :D . I just felt bad for inserting a silly comment into a serious thread. Too late now, I guess there's no time like the present for everyone to learn what a dork I am ;)

ETA: GWB is an idiot

[bananacat]

OK, this thread went way off-topic (to another topic that was very interesting), but I would like to comment about the original post. Yes, lots of scientists throughout history were religious or even clergy. And that's because pretty much everyone was religious until fairly recently. I'm not sure what point that picture is trying to make, but it doesn't really mean anything. Gregor Mendel was a monk who discovered how traits are inheritable. It's not surprising that scientists in the past were part of their society.

[desertvixen]

All right then, snowflake. You just stay in Historical Ignorance Land.

Sadly, way too many of them do...

[synchroswimr]

Oh, that reminded me of the time GW Bush came to France on a state visit and at a meeting he was saying that France doesn't support entrepreneurs. Once he finished the interpreter got to work and he heard her say "La France ne soutient pas les entrepreneurs". On which he interrupted and said "See, this is your problem in France! You don't even have your own word for it" :lol:

Pleeeeease tell me that isn't actually true... I weep

[synchroswimr]

Pleeeeease tell me that isn't actually true... I weep

According to Snopes, it is not true. http://www.snopes.com/quotes/bush.asp

[Wolfie]

Like the whackjobs who say Santa Claus means Satan's Claws because they're too dumb to think that maybe the name came from a DIFFERENT LANGUAGE.

Saint Nicholas?

[heinz57]

According to Snopes, it is not true. http://www.snopes.com/quotes/bush.asp

I never heard of the version Snopes mentions - I heard it from an interpreter. It was the same trip that took him to Spain where he expressed his joy for having met Spain's president (this is verifiable), so I saw no reason to doubt it. hmm.

[freejoytoo]

Saint Nicholas?

I assume so. Santa is Spanish for saint.

It makes me want to cry that fundies use anagrams of words to 'prove' they're evil...because Satan and God only speak English :roll:

It also makes me want to cry that a president like Dubya got voted in, for many reasons. The example above is now added to the list. All the moreso that he was not voted in just once but TWICE. He was as dumb as a bag of rocks.

[heinz57]

I assume so. Santa is Spanish for saint.

It makes me want to cry that fundies use anagrams of words to 'prove' they're evil...because Satan and God only speak English :roll:

It also makes me want to cry that a president like Dubya got voted in, for many reasons. The example above is now added to the list. All the moreso that he was not voted in just once but TWICE. He was as dumb as a bag of rocks.

I was always told it comes from Dutch, Sinterklaas, which is a folk name for Sint Nikolaas (originally a 4th century Greek bishop). In anglicized pronunciation it became Sinta Claas and then Santa Claus.

Either way, it definitely comes from Saint Nicholas, and in many languages the guy bringing presents is still simply called St Nicholas.

[Muriel]

I was always told it comes from Dutch, Sinterklaas, which is a folk name for Sint Nikolaas (originally a 4th century Greek bishop). In anglicized pronunciation it became Sinta Claas and then Santa Claus.

Either way, it definitely comes from Saint Nicholas, and in many languages the guy bringing presents is still simply called St Nicholas.

Yes, and Saint Nicolas (in French) brings present to good children on December 6th !

[Wolfie]

I assume so. Santa is Spanish for saint.

It makes me want to cry that fundies use anagrams of words to 'prove' they're evil...because Satan and God only speak English :roll:

It also makes me want to cry that a president like Dubya got voted in, for many reasons. The example above is now added to the list. All the moreso that he was not voted in just once but TWICE. He was as dumb as a bag of rocks.

I always learned that it came from saying Saint Nicholas really quickly in a way that a child would say it. Try it.