Jinjer 31: Books, Books, and More Books

[AprilQuilt]

8 hours ago, backyard sylph said:

I can't tell you just what she said about Villette, but I find myself recommending it now, and also it forced me to think about why I don't like certain books, and whether they deserve better examination.

You talk a lot of sense. Maybe I should have another crack at it. I admit I read it when I was about 19 - I might find it v different now I'm 30. I regret having lost the ability/opportunity/inclination to inhale books the way I did as a kid/teen (life has got in the way), but on the flipside I might bring greater understanding to them now. I'm glad I put off reading Middlemarch, for example; I'd have got much less from it at 14. And I know people who rate Villette as CB's best book. Maybe with a combination of age and a deeper knowledge of C19th world/CB's context I'll get more from it. Books aren't always for just one reading.

7 hours ago, FleeJanaFree said:

Is it even possible to like em? I feel like I've given them a real fair shake. most are just 'ok' to me

It IS possible, but at the risk of giving an unsatisfactory answer, you'll like what you like. If Moby Dick isn't working for you, try something else and see what sticks. Don't wade through a book like it's a duty, it won't give you pleasure. 

As a practical tip, buy up-to-date editions with good notes. Don't read every single footnote, just see them as a helping hand when you need it. I've got a Penguin Classics 'Evelina' with notes that totally illuminated the story and the period for me. And I, ahem, say this as someone who makes a living knowing about 1780s London. 

It's an unhappy fact that The Past is full of racist misogynist homophobic classist anti-semites, and that's just the authors. It's fvcking awkward. I try not to read them but you can't avoid it sometimes, the best you can do is meet it with sympathy for context and a bit of critical thinking.

Add to this the fact that they wrote for people who had literally naff-all else to do on the long cold winter evenings but read, and they were sometimes paid per word/chapter, and you've got yourself a 300k-word novel. I honestly think that unless you're reading for a university module, it's OK to skip over the bits where Thomas Hardy showboats for 5 pages about church architecture. It was an acceptable part of the novel format then, not so much now. 

With these caveats in mind, you might try a few of these rip-roarers which more or less have their heads screwed on:

- if you want really really old, try something Daniel Defoe, like Moll Flanders, A Journal of the Plague Year, or Robinson Crusoe. Moll is my first recommendation. 

- Cold Comfort Farm

- A High Wind in Jamaica 

- Vanity Fair 

- Far From the Madding Crowd, seconding the other poster who recommended it.

- The Tenant of Wildfell Hall (reiterating from earlier in the thread)

- Some Saki short stories. Edwardian English high society with a really savage, dark twist. 

- Lots of C18th literature is brilliant fun and full of intrigue, but they run LONG. Because VALUE. Something by Henry Fielding is worth a go. The afore-mentioned Evelina. And Tristram Shandy. 

 

[KeshetParparNesicha]

Lemony Snicket's summary of Anna Karenina: "The story of Ms. Karenina, whose boyfriend treats her so poorly that she throws herself under a train." (Hat tip to A Series of Unfortunate Events, which is not a classic, but should be.)

[GoddessOfVictory]

9 minutes ago, AprilQuilt said:

Add to this the fact that they wrote for people who had literally naff-all else to do on the long cold winter evenings but read, and they were sometimes paid per word/chapter, and you've got yourself a 300k-word novel. I honestly think that unless you're reading for a university module, it's OK to skip over the bits where Thomas Hardy showboats for 5 pages about church architecture. It was an acceptable part of the novel format then, not so much now. 

This was Les Miserables for me. I swear Victor Hugo must have been paid by the word as he waxed poetic for entire chapters about the Battle of Waterloo, life in a nunnery, the sewers of Paris, and the argot of the streets, among others. I'm someone who enjoys learning about history and cultures but those chapters were just too much for me and I ended up skipping some of them (something I hate to do, but in this case I don't regret it as I'd probably still be reading that book if I hadn't!)

[Jinder Roles]

Hmm turns out I have read some classics. When I said I haven't I was thinking of Austen, the Bronte sisters, Twain and the like. 

Classics I enjoyed: 

The Secret Garden

Oliver Twist

1984

Animal Farm

To Kill a Mockingbird 

The Pearl 

 

I found The Great Gatsby so annoying. Was waiting for it to get better but it didn't. Moby Dick was boring. I don't mind Lord of the Flies only because we dissected the fuck out of that book in high school. I have 2 exercise books of notes if anyone needs them (no joke). The language of Charlotte's Web was weird to me. And I abhor Romeo and Juliet...so dumb. 

Books I enjoyed:

The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo series 

A Song of Ice and Fire Series 

Giovanni's Room 

The Color Purple. 

Their Eyes were Watching God 

Things Fall Apart 

The Hunger Games 

Racism without Racists (very. important) 

A Raisin in The Sun 

 

Plays I enjoyed

A Doll's House 

Ghosts

Machinal 

The Resistible Rise of Arturo Ui

An Octoroon - Brandon Jacob-Jenkins (you have to read The Octoroon first to understand the brilliance) 

Twelfth Night 

Fences 

Pantomime (and basically anything by Derek Walcott) 

The Last Days of Judas Iscariot 

 

So I guess I've read more than I thought? I'm just can't remember because I'm so stressed and depressed all the time (I'm such a mess, y'all) 

One more thing to get off my chest: CHEKHOV IS SO FUCKING OVERRATED. LIKE,  IT'S NOT ANYTHING LIFE-CHANGING. WHY DO DRAMA MAJORS ALWAYS TREAT HIM LIKE HE'S GOD???!!!11!!!1!1!!1

 

[Georgia3112]

3 hours ago, metheglyn said:

she was making it clear to him that she'd been right to be skeptical and he was wrong, and he *seemed* to recognize that.

I thought the same.

And I also thought it was a good sign that Jeremy accepted for this to be in the show. I really don't think they have no control regarding what we see. I suspect this was just a "story" for the show, cause they didn't have something more interesting to do, and it is ok that Jeremy exposed himself like that, knowing for sure he will be criticised for this scene. 

[Marly]

As a research master's student of Comparative Literature, I just want to say that just because they're considered classics doesn't mean they're good, and it definitely doesn't mean you have to like them or have to force yourself to read them. If you happen to like Jane Eyre or Othello, good for you; if you don't happen to like Jane Eyre or Othello, that's absolutely fine too. ( FYI, I don't like either). 
Read what you like, read outside of the established canon(s). The English canon (and the Dutch canon too, for that matter) is very old fashioned and very white male dominated and oriented. In my opinion (and that of a lot of contemporary scholars of literature) there should be more attention for minority voices, and also for contemporary voices. 
Of course this doesn't mean that all classics suck, or that I think all classics suck. There are a lot of good classics. But there are a lot of good works outside of the canon as well. Don't force yourself to like something just because someone 60 or more years ago decided that it should be liked. Build your own canon instead.

[LacyMay]

I've always been a reader but have never found the classics to be appealing. Every so often I shame myself for my love of fiction but it's short lived. I also read a fair bit of Culture and Community stuff so I figure it balances out. 

Books I loved

*Small Great Things 

*The Martian (the only sci fi book I have ever enjoyed)

*Newtown 

*Columbine 

*To Kill a Mockingbird 

*The Hate U Give 

Authors I love (Jodi Picoult, Diane Chamberlain, Chevy Stevens, Amy Hatvany, Lisa Scottoline) 

In currently reading The Child Finder and it's quite good. 

[CarrotCake]

I love reading and I read a lot but I never liked classic literature.

I also never understand why some people feel like they have to struggle through some books they dont enjoy because apparently you 'should have read them'.

Reading should be fun and relaxing.

[Ais]

6 hours ago, Shadoewolf said:

*snipped*

 Trying to find a series our 9 year old son will like.

Have you tried the Percy Jackson series? My eldest struggled in school and despite being surrounded by books and being read too his whole he detested reading until he discovered this series. He is now 18 and reads constantly, he definitely leans towards fantasy and particularly likes graphic novels. His explanation is that they weren't as overwhelming as being confronted with a sea of words so it didn't feel like a chore. 

[SeekingAdventure]

@LacyMay I think we have a similar taste in books. I love Jodie Picoult and Diane Chamberlain. I got into Jodie Picoult while being in Canada and Diane Chamberlain in South America. Very random.. Do the other three authors write in a similar way?

[laPapessaGiovanna]

13 hours ago, FleeJanaFree said:

While we're on my favorite thread drift (and I formally vote book drifts become the new Nail Polish subject changers while we're at it) any suggestions to get me to appreciate the classics? 

Your list of classics seems to be mostly anglo-American literature from the 19th century. Maybe you can try foreign literature and a wider gap of time. One of my favourite ways is to choose from the Nobel laureates list. But also asking for titles to FJ bookworms seems a brilliant idea!

My personal suggestions to you (trying to be concise, I could go on for weeks lol): start from Pennac

Quote

Reader's Bill of Rights

1. The right to not read 

2. The right to skip pages 

3. The right to not finish 

4. The right to reread 

5. The right to read anything 

6. The right to escapism 

7. The right to read anywhere 

8. The right to browse 

9. The right to read out loud 

10. The right to not defend your tastes

He is so fucking right! And also a great writer I highly recommend his Malaussene saga (iirc @Palimpsest is a fellow fan). He's a contemporary writer though so back to the classics. Bulgakov's The Master and Margarita, Heart of Dog. Pirandello, maybe better start with the short stories and theatrical pieces, all his novels are wonderful imho, except his most famous The late Mattia Pascal, I tried but I couldn't read it all. Italo Svevo's Zeno's Conscience. Anything by Italo Calvino, D'Annunzio (I don't like him cos asshole but good writer), Grazia Deledda andI Elsa Morante. If you liked Dante's Inferno you'll probably adore Boccaccio's Decameron. If you're into Italian comedic poets try Cecco Angiolieri and Gioacchino Belli.  If you like theatre Goldoni and Moliere, Wild and Ibsen. Try Don Quixote with good commentaries, Rabelais and Gautier's Captain Fracass. Try Zola and Verga even if you may not like them but can't know without trying. Try Dacia Maraini, Isabel Allende and Enchi Fumiko, you may love love love them. Anatole France, Albert Camus, Simone De Beauvoir and Jean Paul Sartre. Please try Gabriel Garcia Marquez, better if you start easy with Chronicle of an Announced Death cos he can be quite a shock. Steinbeck and Hemingway of course and EA Poe and George Orwell. Solzhenitsyn! Hermann Hesse (better start with Narcissus and Goldmund or Siddhartha), Rainer Maria Rilke, Thomas Mann, JJ Cronin. If you like poetry you can't miss Goethe. 

Well I think I just did a crazy potpourri of genres nationalities and time periods . I tried to be orderly but I just can't.

[victoriasponge]

18 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

On the other lesser known novels, I still like Shirley (by Charlotte) and think it gives an insight into Emily's personality. There's something almost feral about Emily.  Villette (also by Charlotte) I ploughed through without much enjoyment.  It was well ahead of its time with Lucy's rathery sexy thoughts though.

 

I love Jane Eyre (was my favourite book from my first full read through at 13 until I started uni) but hated Shirley and it's put me off reading any more Bronte works. I never got into Wuthering Heights before but maybe I should try Villette to try and get back into them?

At any rate, I need to read Pride and Prejudice first. I promised my mother I'd do it, no matter how much I hate Austen's writing. (Again, I'm a terrible English student) It'll just happen after my dissertation on the representation of male life, headship and repression in The Handmaid's Tale and The Wanting Seed - if I ever manage to research that and finish my degree.

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

He is so fucking right! And also a great writer I highly recommend his Malaussene saga (iirc @Palimpsest is a fellow fan).

Yes, I'm a very big fan.  You must have an incredible memory because I have no recollection of mentioning it!

 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

12 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Yes, I'm a very big fan.  You must have an incredible memory because I have no recollection of mentioning it!

 

It's not the sort of thing I forget 

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, victoriasponge said:

maybe I should try Villette to try and get back into them?

Nah.  Try Anne Bronte's The Tenant of Wildfell Hall instead.  It is a much better book. 

And I second all of @laPapessaGiovanna's book recommendations.

[SapphireSlytherin]

@metheglyn - you wrote it exactly as I saw it (I skim-watched the episode last night until I got to this part, just to see what actually happened). From reading here, I had assumed Jeremy was criticizing Jinger for the "lava" instead of coffee. From reading here, I had assumed the entire cup had poured into Jinger's lap. Glad I watched it for myself. I saw no animosity between them at all.

Oh - more books:  Has anyone read the Bobbsey Twins series? My mother had them as a child, and I read them as a child, then sold the collection to a guy in Germany. lol

[BlessaYourHeart]

Ohhh I love the book talk! I have a strange taste in books, I don't have one genre that I love, I'll read from any genre as long as the book is good. I have read some classics that I've enjoyed but also some that I could never get into or finish. 

Classics I liked/loved: 

To Kill a Mockingbird 

Pride and Prejudice 

Wuthering Heights 

Great Expectations 

The Great Gatsby 

Of Mice and Men 

The Secret Garden 

 

Classics I couldn't get into: 

A Tale of Two Cities 

The Beautiful and The Damned 

Moby Dick 

 

General books I liked/loved/would recommend: 

The Secret Scripture by Sebastian Barry 

The Flowers in the Attic series 

Me Before you 

After you 

13 Reasons Why

A Song of Ice and Fire Series 

Atonement 

The Butcher Boy 

The Healing 

 

 

[Palimpsest]

9 hours ago, LuckyShot said:

My favorite authors are Bill Bryson and Will Ferguson. I'm reading John Cleese's autobiography right now and really enjoying it.

I'll have to look up Will Ferguson, but Bill Bryson and John Cleese's autobiography. Yes!

[Mrs. Figg]

Ooh books! 

I heart the...

Outlander series

A Song of Ice and Fire series

beloved Harry Potter

smut novels in general

Much Ado About Nothing

The Hunger Games

Philippa Gregory as an author in general except the White Queen which I could NOT finish

In school I liked:

Of Mice and Men

1984

To Kill a Mockingbird

Anna Karenina

Little Women

Jane Eyre

My favorite book as a child was A Castle in the Attic.  Need to find a copy for my kids before they're too OLD.  

[Markie]

Classics I Liked/Loved

Pride and Prejudice

Emma

Macbeth

Anne of Green Gables series

Harry Potter series

The Grapes of Wrath

Who Has Seen the Wind

To Kill a Mockingbird

The Scarlet Letter

The Crucible

Oliver Twist

The Tenant of Wildfell Hall

Handmaid's Tale

A Doll's House

 

 

Classics I Couldn't Get Into

Moby Dick

Old Man and the Sea

The Great Gatsby

Wuthering Heights

Tess of the D'Urbervilles

Death of a Salesman

Waiting for Godot

 

 

[tabitha2]

Have any if y'all ever read or familiar with The Tale of Genji by Lady Murasaki Shikibu? Such a facinating beautiful If complex and long  book! This is the worlds first novel.  Shikibu was a noblewomen in the service of the Empress Shoshone of Japan in the 10th century and she wrote it to entertain her mistress.   This was a time of no war on Japan when music , elegant writing and learning was prized above all else. 

We know next to nothing of the Lady herself not even her real name or when she died only that the book stops almost in mid sentence. Very intriguing. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I'm that weirdo reader that enjoys supremely depressing books that often have few likable characters. Books like Wuthering Heights, Jane Eyre, and The Great Gatsby. But I also like Fluffy stuff like Jane Austen. 

[JillyO]

I'm another one who just can't be bothered with classics much. I read quite a lot of the classics mentioned here, many of them in high-school English class. Seeing as I'm German, I read even more German classics (Goethe, Schiller, Büchner, Fontane, Brecht, ETA Hoffmann, Mann, Kafka, Lessing, etc.). I also read some French classics in French class (Voltaire's Candide, Satre's Le Mur and Camus' L'Étranger come to mind).

I can't say I particularly enjoyed very many of those. I'm much more into contemporary literature, and I'm not about to force myself to read something I don't genuinely enjoy. Not since I finished grad school, anyway. That said, I'm certainly open to giving each classic a chance. Currently reading A Handmaid's Tale for the first time.
ETA: The Great Gatsby is a horrible, horrible book that I never finished. I still got a straight A on that test. Take that, F. Scott Fitzgerald.

[Carm_88]

Classics I liked

The Hobbit

The Lord of the Rings Trilogy 

Pride and Prejudice 

The Anne of Green Gables series 

Jane Eyre

To Kill a Mockingbird 

The Colour Purple

A Christmas Carol

Fahrenheit 451

Brave New World 

Huckleberry Finn 

 

Classics I Didn't Like

Lolita 

The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde (I didn't finish it, I was so frustrated) 

Great Expectations (To be fair it was the children's version and I was a child but it was a bit off)

Wuthering Heights 

The Great Gatsby 

Anna Karenina 

War and Peace

Gone With the Wind 

 

General Recommendations 

The Kingkiller Chronicles by Patrick Rothfuss, although still waiting on book three. It's kinda classic worldbuilding heroic fantasy. He's a good writer and can suck you in. 

The Hunger Games

The Millennium Trilogy by Stieg Larsson 

 Big Little Lies and basically anything Liane Morarity 

A Time to Kill/The Chamber/The Firm by John Grisham 

The Best of Me/The Notebook/A Walk to Remember/The Longest Ride by Nicholas Sparks 

The Outlander series. You know what you're getting into.  

A Song of Fire and Ice. If you can get past the amount of deaths and the amount of descriptions. George RR Martin can sure drag things out. 

Anything Kate Morton but especially The House at Riverton. Just heartbreaking! 

 

Here, I stop because if I don't, I won't!  

 

 

[veron1que]

6 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

I also never understand why some people feel like they have to struggle through some books they dont enjoy because apparently you 'should have read them'.

To me there is something to be said about reading literature I find challenging, but also books that are part of the greater cultural narrative. I read 100+ books a year and I challenge myself to read about 15 stuffy classics a year. Sometimes I am surprised by how much I like them (the great gatsby) and other times struck by my hatred of them (dr. Jekyll  and mrbHyde). A lot of classics haven't been kept around because of great writing, but because of their timing and the circumstances surrounding their publication. I find these reasons interesting enough to push on.

 

However, if they don't interest you they don't. There have been a number that I stopped reading because I couldn't stand them (a clockwork orange for example).