Hope Pennington, atheist

[J'Lurker]

Sometimes when you are close to a person, you can be blinded by your feelings for them. By my definition, a person who joyfully admits to restricting their child's food consumption in order to continue physically assaulting them is not a good parent.

There are lots of bad parents out there, and their children still love them unconditionally. Sometimes because of the learned dysfuntional thought processes, these children love their parents more fiercely than children who grew up in ideal circumstances. 

It is hard to break the cycle. Changing your religion, your hair style, and your social circle doesn't change history. 

It's okay to love your parents, even when they're deeply flawed. And what your parents are like says nothing about who you are or will be. But I sincerely hope eventually the children can see that 'loving her kids too much' is not Lisa's only flaw; toxic thoughts can be contagious. 

Best wishes for a speedy recovery for Aleicia Faith. Props to Hope for being a supportive sister. 

Lisa did some things really right--and some things so very, abhorently wrong.

[Feministe9000]

i don’t know if I’m putting this link in correctly, buuuuttt y’all should check out Hope’s latest video. This is since she came out online as bisexual and moved to Austin to live with/then near Faith, got a girlfriend and generally seems to be blossoming into a free and independent young woman who is discovering herself. 

It is lovely to see, I’ve followed Hope’s journey after her sister left as I’m sure some of you have too, and thought you’d appreciate this update. I’m so happy for her! 

Lisa seems to be eating a lot of humble pie these days, and seems supportive and loving of her daughters who have left, in a way that makes me the think she does love them and wants to be in their lives, but ya know, is still “praying or them” in private. This at the very least, has gotten her to shut her mouth on social media about it, so i’m glad.  

[JermajestyDuggar]

Hope Pennington is now going by Chris Pennington and is non-binary preferring people to use they/them instead of she. I guarantee Lisa will not do that. She’s stubborn as fuck. 

[waltraute]

Hope Pennington is now going by Chris Pennington and is non-binary preferring people to use they/them instead of she. I guarantee Lisa will not do that. She’s stubborn as fuck. 

Non-binary AND polyamorous. See the YouTube video from the month before. She states that her mother has been her rock, which makes me sad for Faith since it seems like she has had to go it alone more or less. At any rate I'm happy for Chris/Hope.

[JermajestyDuggar]

22 minutes ago, waltraute said:

On 8/12/2018 at 6:48 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

Hope Pennington is now going by Chris Pennington and is non-binary preferring people to use they/them instead of she. I guarantee Lisa will not do that. She’s stubborn as fuck. 

Non-binary AND polyamorous. See the YouTube video from the month before. She states that her mother has been her rock, which makes me sad for Faith since it seems like she has had to go it alone more or less. At any rate I'm happy for Chris/Hope.

It surprises me that Lisa would be their rock. I can see her being ok with some things but not a name change. Maybe because it would hurt Lisa’s pride since she probably named them. 

I do feel sorry for Alecia. She seems pretty alone compared to the other siblings.

Edited August 13, 2018 by JermajestyDuggar

[waltraute]

It surprises me that Lisa would be their rock. I can see her being ok with some things but not a name change. Maybe because it would hurt Lisa’s pride since she probably named them. 
I do feel sorry for Alecia. She seems pretty alone compared to the other siblings.

I agree. Who would have guessed that Lisa would be supportive in any way considering she cried in the closet for hours when 18 year old Faith wanted to live away from home.

Also thank you for using the correct pronouns. I am profoundly embarrassed that I didn't in my earlier post.

That is all.

I agree. Who would have guessed that Lisa would be supportive in any way considering she cried in the closet for hours when 18 year old Alecia wanted to live away from home.

Also thank you for using the correct pronouns. I am profoundly embarrassed that I didn't in my earlier post.

That is all.

Edit: Apparently, that is not all. I've been using incorrect pronouns AND wrong names. I shouldn't be using Faith if she is going by Alecia. Sheesh. Tried to change my post immediately but my phone is not cooperating.

I'll slink away now.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I feel like Alecia goes by both but I could be wrong. I think Lisa named her daughters in a match way by giving them all virtue middle names and regular first names. So most went by their middle name growing up. I could be remembering wrong though.

[JermajestyDuggar]

If you look at all the old Pennington point posts you’ll find Lisa was very strict on gender roles even amongst her children. I can’t believe this doesn’t bother her. Sorry I just don’t believe it.

[The Mother Dust]

Hope speaks more about the religious influence on her upbringing here, about at the 6 minute mark.  Also SEVERE segregation between the sexes at church.  She also speaks on how shame affected the kids in the church.  Probably nothing surprising to us FJers, but I always find it interesting to hear the perspective of young people who were raised in these cults sects and left.

 

[Lisafer]

1 hour ago, The Mother Dust said:

Hope speaks more about the religious influence on her upbringing here, about at the 6 minute mark.  Also SEVERE segregation between the sexes at church.  She also speaks on how shame affected the kids in the church.  Probably nothing surprising to us FJers, but I always find it interesting to hear the perspective of young people who were raised in these cults sects and left.

 

May I just say, Chris is just gorgeous, both now and when they identified as Hope. (It's not creepy to say that, is it? I don't mean it to be creepy). Good for them for "coming out."

I do find it hard to believe that Lisa is okay with all this. She seemed so hard and cold for so long, but I guess it's possible she could be softening up?

Edited August 29, 2018 by Lisafer
Used he/him when they/them was preferred--sorry!

[The Mother Dust]

17 minutes ago, Lisafer said:

May I just say, Chris is just gorgeous, both now and when he identified as Hope. (It's not creepy to say that, is it? I don't mean it to be creepy). Good for him for "coming out."

I do find it hard to believe that Lisa is okay with all this. She seemed so hard and cold for so long, but I guess it's possible she could be softening up?

She doesn't seem to have the same financial hold on her kids that some of the fundy parents do. I wonder if that has something to do with it. But I am not as familiar with the Penningtons as some of the other families, I could be wrong.

[JermajestyDuggar]

39 minutes ago, Lisafer said:

May I just say, Chris is just gorgeous, both now and when he identified as Hope. (It's not creepy to say that, is it? I don't mean it to be creepy). Good for him for "coming out."

I do find it hard to believe that Lisa is okay with all this. She seemed so hard and cold for so long, but I guess it's possible she could be softening up?

I think Lisa is not ok with it but she most likely keeps her negativity to herself around Chris. Chris has never come across as bitter about their upbringing. Chris is extremely matter of fact, not bitter. I think Alecia Faith is much more hurt by it and likely pretty bitter. She is the one who led the way so I totally get it. Chris didn’t have to fight like Alecia Faith and run away to their grandparents. Chris is very even tempered and can go toe to toe with some nasty fundies without blinking an eye. Chris is always polite and never loses their cool. I think Lisa has realized her kids will cut HER off so she now keeps her negative beliefs to herself. I don’t believe for one second that Lisa has done a complete 180 in her belief system. She just keeps her mouth shut. 

Edited August 29, 2018 by JermajestyDuggar

[Lisafer]

26 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I think Lisa is not ok with it but she most likely keeps her negativity to herself around Chris. Chris has never come across as bitter about their upbringing. Chris is extremely matter of fact, not bitter. I think Alecia Faith is much more hurt by it and likely pretty bitter. She is the one who led the way so I totally get it. Chris didn’t have to fight like Alecia Faith and run away to their grandparents. Chris is very even tempered and can go toe to toe with some nasty fundies without blinking an eye. Chris is always polite and never loses their cool. I think Lisa has realized her kids will cut HER off so she now keeps her negative beliefs to herself. I don’t believe for one second that Lisa has done a complete 180 in her belief system. She just keeps her mouth shut. 

Goodness, I just realized Chris prefers they/them pronouns. I apologize, I'll go back and edit in a moment, I was using he/him. 

I am the oldest female child in my family of origin, and I have far more bitterness about my upbringing than some of my siblings, so I can identify with Alecia. I also had to fight, and ended up leaving to go to my grandparents as well. Some of my fights were harder because I was the first daughter to "rebel."

[waltraute]

Some of my fights were harder because I was the first daughter to "rebel."

This is it exactly. Alecia Faith blazed the trail and her parents came down hard on her for it. Unforgivable. How many YEARS did it take for her to establish her identity/citizenship because they refused to provide documentation? There was a law established in Texas preventing this sort of travesty directly passed BECAUSE of this family's situation. If I were Alicia Faith my bitterness would legion.

Through the entire ordeal though the Pennington parents were trying to portray themselves as reasonable people and loving parents even though their extreme actions were proving the opposite. They did not come out looking well, not even in their own circles. I think they know that they couldn't take another PR hit like the last one - plus they are afraid now of more children rebelling. They had to loosen the reins and at least FEIGN tolerance and acceptance or they risked losing all contact with these kids. I also think they are trying to save face. If they say, we accept this, or it's no big deal, then it makes it seem like their life is still rolling along just the way they want - no failure on their part. Kind of like when someone accidentally trips and then jumps up shouting, 'I meant to do that!'

I would be extra pissed if I were Alicia Faith right now. She wanted a driver's license when she was 18 and all hell came down on her. A sibling accepted while living outside gender norms seems like a giant FU to her - like her parents are saying, SEE we ARE reasonable; it wasn't US it was Faith.

I'm super happy for Chris though. They are a strong woman.

[Lisafer]

1 hour ago, waltraute said:

 

 

This is it exactly. Alecia Faith blazed the trail and her parents came down hard on her for it. Unforgivable. How many YEARS did it take for her to establish her identity/citizenship because they refused to provide documentation? There was a law established in Texas preventing this sort of travesty directly passed BECAUSE of this family's situation. If I were Alicia Faith my bitterness would legion.

Through the entire ordeal though the Pennington parents were trying to portray themselves as reasonable people and loving parents even though their extreme actions were proving the opposite. They did not come out looking well, not even in their own circles. I think they know that they couldn't take another PR hit like the last one - plus they are afraid now of more children rebelling. They had to loosen the reins and at least FEIGN tolerance and acceptance or they risked losing all contact with these kids. I also think they are trying to save face. If they say, we accept this, or it's no big deal, then it makes it seem like their life is still rolling along just the way they want - no failure on their part. Kind of like when someone accidentally trips and then jumps up shouting, 'I meant to do that!'

I would be extra pissed if I were Alicia Faith right now. She wanted a driver's license when she was 18 and all hell came down on her. A sibling accepted while living outside gender norms seems like a giant FU to her - like her parents are saying, SEE we ARE reasonable; it wasn't US it was Faith.

I'm super happy for Chris though. They are a strong woman.

 

Yep. It's hard when a sibling posts something on FB like "best mom ever!" and I think wtf are they talking about. Granted, that's one sibling toeing the party line out of my whole large family. That kind of hurt doesn't dissipate easily. Even though I am happy for Chris and glad that they are apparently really enjoying life--I do not forget what Alecia went through. 

I hope that Alecia's hurt is acknowledged by her siblings, because she was treated so badly by her parents. I think she's an awesome, strong person, and so is Chris, but I still give Lisa and James tons of side-eye.

Edited August 30, 2018 by Lisafer

[JermajestyDuggar]

Lisa also has two daughters left who are leading Lisa approved lives. Grace is married and gave birth to Lisa’s first grandchild. And Patience is still fundie and getting married to another fundie. Chris seems to have a good relationship with Grace and Patience but Alecia Faith seems to rarely interact with her family. 

[refugee]

The terrible thing is that churches are telling parents with “wayward” children that the loving thing to do is throw them out, cut them off, come down even harder on them with enforcing obedience, even if it causes a kid to run away, because “when he is old he will not depart from it” and Jesus talking about the gospel turning parents against children and children against parents and “let the dead bury their dead” and the Prodigal Son and yadda yadda yadda.

Some people are so brainwashed that they follow this horrible teaching and insist they are loving their kids.

I’m glad Lisa is at least expressing support for her kids and not that poison that such churches label “love”.

We chose our offspring over a (insert expletive of choice here; I can’t come up with a word that is bad enough) church—we walked away even though that church had convinced us that their theology was the only way to god and salvation and we were condemning ourselves and our children.

We know families that chose and continue to choose theology over their own children. It’s sick.

I’m not setting us above anyone else. Just thinking out loud. I am so grateful that somehow we found the strength to break free and find life.

And that abundant, to quote another bit.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Patience posted a picture from her wedding. Her dress is really pretty. I almost didn’t recognize her without her glasses. She always wears them. I know Chris went but I don’t know if Alecia Faith did. She said nothing about it on her Instagram. I wouldn’t be surprised if she didn’t go. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

This is a shitty thing to post when you have an openly gay sibling. And guess who liked this post. Patience and Lisa of course. I’ve read what this book is about and it’s the same old crap. Homosexuality is a sin blah blah blah. I’m pretty sure Grace, Patience, and Lisa all still have a relationship with Chris. I would have said “fuck off” by now if I were Chris. 

[Lisafer]

44 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

This is a shitty thing to post when you have an openly gay sibling. And guess who liked this post. Patience and Lisa of course. I’ve read what this book is about and it’s the same old crap. Homosexuality is a sin blah blah blah. I’m pretty sure Grace, Patience, and Lisa all still have a relationship with Chris. I would have said “fuck off” by now if I were Chris. 

The "wtf" is for the post, not for you, Jermajesty! What a crappy thing to do to a sibling!

[The Mother Dust]

On 12/11/2018 at 2:04 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

This is a shitty thing to post when you have an openly gay sibling. And guess who liked this post. Patience and Lisa of course. I’ve read what this book is about and it’s the same old crap. Homosexuality is a sin blah blah blah. I’m pretty sure Grace, Patience, and Lisa all still have a relationship with Chris. I would have said “fuck off” by now if I were Chris. 

Oh man.  I empathize with Chris, because Chris really seems to value having a close relationship with their family of origin.  I have also felt the same way.  Even though I am an independent adult, maintaining a close relationship with my parents and siblings has always been important to me, despite some family difficulties.  But I have never felt personally insulted by my family.  Their has been hurt feelings sometimes, with normal sibling fights, but never anything so pointed as this.  This.... has really got to sting.  Poor Chris. ?  @JermajestyDuggar "shitty" is the perfect description.  If Grace wanted to share this with her Christian brain-washed friends she could have shared it in a private message.  It was a choice to post this publicly.  I'll say it. What a shitty sister.

[JermajestyDuggar]

58 minutes ago, The Mother Dust said:

Oh man.  I empathize with Chris, because Chris really seems to value having a close relationship with their family of origin.  I have also felt the same way.  Even though I am an independent adult, maintaining a close relationship with my parents and siblings has always been important to me, despite some family difficulties.  But I have never felt personally insulted by my family.  Their has been hurt feelings sometimes, with normal sibling fights, but never anything so pointed as this.  This.... has really got to sting.  Poor Chris. ?  @JermajestyDuggar "shitty" is the perfect description.  If Grace wanted to share this with her Christian brain-washed friends she could have shared it in a private message.  It was a choice to post this publicly.  I'll say it. What a shitty sister.

To me there’s a clear divide. Chris and Faith are the “bad ones” and Patience and Grace are the “good ones.” Of course they would NEVER come out and say that. Because Grace, Patience, and Lisa are just such loving Christians that they wouldn’t ever say something like that I feel worst for Faith. She had it the worst when she left. Grace and Patience come across as smug sometimes and it always reminds me of Lisa. 

[NachosFlandersStyle]

Can we move this out of the archived topic? Clearly it's still active but I had no idea there was a thread til I saw it in the recently updated panel. 

[Feministe9000]

5 minutes ago, NachosFlandersStyle said:

Can we move this out of the archived topic? Clearly it's still active but I had no idea there was a thread til I saw it in the recently updated panel. 

I agree and I am so glad others are following Chris/Alecia's story and keeping up with the other Penningtons!
 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Alecia Faith is into raves. She seems to have a boyfriend and enjoys her friends. She obviously drinks alcohol and smokes juuls but I hope she isn’t getting into the drug scene that is common in the rave scene. I don’t think she sees her family much (besides Chris). I doubt she has much contact with them either. I don’t blame her at all.