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    • Curious

      Guest Speaker 1.26.17 @ 8pm eastern   01/22/2017

      I am pleased to announce that we have are going to have a Q&A with an ex-evangelical on Thurs, January 26, 2017 @ 8pm.  The Q&A will last for approximately 1 hour.  I will be setting up a subforum for guest speakers as I hope to be able to get some other folks come talk to us. Our guest on Thurs will be Chris Stroop.  Here is his bio: Christopher Stroop grew up a rank-and-file member of the Christian Right in an Evangelical enclave community, Stroop's childhood social milieu consisting mostly of family and people associated with church and/or Christian school. From about the age of 16, Stroop found himself dealing with an increasingly acute crisis of faith that was not addressed properly by the people he talked to about it, and he was subjected to spiritual abuse. Stroop nevertheless went on to earn a BA in history and German from Ball State University (summa cum laude) in 2003, and then a Ph.D. in modern Russian History and Interdisciplinary Studies in the Humanities from Stanford in 2012. Subsequently, Stroop spent three academic years teaching in the School of Public Policy at the Russian Presidential Academy of National Economy and Public Administration in Moscow, where he kind of sort of almost got in trouble for "teaching Pussy Riot lyrics." Currently, Stroop teaches nineteenth-century European history and Russian Studies classes as a Provost's Postdoctoral Scholar at the University of South Florida and, as a freelance writer and public speaker, speaks out against the abuses of conservative Christianity in general and the the white Evangelical subculture he comes from in particular. You can find many of his writings in this vein on Religion Dispatches. If you would like to support this work financially, please click here (for monthly support) or here (to leave a one-time gift). Stroop's more academic writings can mostly be found here, and you can follow him on Twitter - @C_Stroop.   We are going to use the Q&A forum format.  I will be setting up a special forum just for Chris.  I will open the forum about 15 minutes before the Q&A starts so you can start asking your questions.   We have a few rules.  Failure to follow these rules will get you temporarily placed in the Prayer Closet so we can preview your posts.  If you get put in the PC during the Q&A you will be released once it's over, but lets just follow the few simple rules so none of that is necessary. Rules for Q&A: 1. Be polite.  This is not an event meant for snark.  Chris is taking time out of his busy schedule to talk to us.  He is an expert in the things we discuss here, so let's give him respect, please. 2. One question per post.   Please don't bog him down with a bunch of questions in one post.  We are using the Q&A format so he can easily answer questions.  Putting a ton of questions in one post defeats the purpose.   You can continue discussion on the thread as he answers and ask another question in the same thread if you have one after he answers. 3. Please try to keep thread drift to a minimum during the Q&A.  After it's over, if you want to continue discussion on the topics  and they drift, that's fine. 4.  Be polite! These rules are subject to change as I and the helpmeets think over possible loopholes (cause there is always one person that has to push boundaries)
choralcrusader8613

Tickling the Ivories - Jinger and Jeremy Vuolo

541 posts in this topic

20 minutes ago, missegeno said:

As per "everything happens for a reason," this is one of my pet peeves. I hate being told it. It feels dismissive of my current feelings and suggests some sort of higher power manipulating my life. Like people are supposed to just accept and be happy that their partner died, they had a miscarriage, whatever, as if it's some promise of a happier future. Yes, events may lead to other events, but something shitty happening doesn't mean you are due a reward.

I also feel that it short changes the strength people have.  The reason we get out of tough situations is because we make the best of it and try and figure something out (and usually a bit of luck).  By saying everything happens for a reason, I feel it takes away from all the good people do for themselves and assigns that praise to something outside of the person who is actually responsible for getting through a tough experience.

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Posted (edited)

11 hours ago, Jana814 said:

That's nuts. I did not know a guy can have 3 vasectomies. 

My dad had my 3 half sisters in his early 20's then had a vasectomy. Later he married my mom and had it reversed in his late 30's, had my sister and lastly me. Then had another vasectomy in his early 40's.

Edited by JesSky03
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29 minutes ago, JesSky03 said:

My dad had my 3 half sisters in his early 20's then had a vasectomy. Later he married my mom and had it reversed in his late 30's, had my sister and lastly me. Then had another vasectomy in his early 40's.

Reminds me of Michael Scott!  "Snip, Snap!  Snip, Snap!  Snip, Snap!"  LOL

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3 minutes ago, HandHoldingHeathen said:

Reminds me of Michael Scott!  "Snip, Snap!  Snip, Snap!  Snip, Snap!"  LOL

 

Omg it's so funny you said that because I kept thinking of that scene as I was typing! I binge watch through the entire series about twice a year :my_biggrin:

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1 hour ago, missegeno said:

I assume a pregnancy test whenever something happens to my body at the drs. I don't get offended even if i haven't had sex etc etc because they just want to be sure they don't do any harm. People lie, pregnancy tests produce false negatives, symptoms may not be present, strange things happen, and they can't take the chance that you might fall into one of those categories, no matter how much they trust you.

Lol. This made me think of Jane the Virgin. You never know if your gynecologist might have accidentally artificially inseminated you during what was supposed to be a routine yearly exam!

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15 hours ago, Fun Undies said:

Snip

. . . I'm sure I'm about to open up a can of worms here, but I'd be livid if someone else chose to baptize my child for me.  In the UU church, both my kids got a "name dedication", where the adults in their lives stand before people and declare the name, and the intent to raise them with love, respect, and acceptance, etc..  It's got a baptism feel, but it's more a recognition of that person being part of the congregation versus "saving the soul".  Though then again, I prefer baptism of older children (or even better, adults), versus babies to begin with (this is coming from a baptized in the Catholic church-gal). 

 

I'm with you, I was raise Catholic, and converted before I met and married my husband.  I was re-baptized into my new church at 25 and met and married my husband a few months later. After our 1st child was born my mom kept wanting to take him to church, to "show him off" my dad let slip that they were going to have him baptized so he didn't "burn in hell" I put the nix on that but quick. NOPE he had a "dedication" at our church, you were invited you choose not to come, my kids both chose to be baptized around 11 years old, and both of my parents refused to attend that as well and often try and get my kids to church with them. My kids are old enough now 19 & 16 to choose for themselves and both have the same view on Catholicism as I do.  We do not understand or see the point in their practices so why would we CHOOSE to be Catholic?   It wasn't just my kids they tried this with .  My Atheist brother & SIL & their daughter and my Agnostic Sister & BIL and their 2 kids.  It is always a Pandora's box when we go to visit my mothers bat shit crazy fundy catholic family, so I mostly don't go, they don't like me and my "liberul" ways anyway, so it saves vacation time and money traveling there.  

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17 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

My friend's son went in for a routine procedure and was asked if he was pregnant now or had ever been pregnant?????

a friend's husband has severe MS .   They are denying him some services because someone listed him as being female.   

I don't get it......

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1 hour ago, HandHoldingHeathen said:

Reminds me of Michael Scott!  "Snip, Snap!  Snip, Snap!  Snip, Snap!"  LOL

Thank you for posting this, because I was thinking of the scene, too! :D

2 hours ago, missegeno said:

I assume a pregnancy test whenever something happens to my body at the drs. I don't get offended even if i haven't had sex etc etc because they just want to be sure they don't do any harm. People lie, pregnancy tests produce false negatives, symptoms may not be present, strange things happen, and they can't take the chance that you might fall into one of those categories, no matter how much they trust you.

 

Yep. It seems awkward to have to take one sometimes, especially if you haven't been sexually active for a while. But it's not personal. Sort of like how when you go to an ER or urgent care place, they'll inevitably ask you in private if you're in any sort of danger, being threatened or controlled by someone, etc.

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I thought the thread title said "tickling the ovaries" at first glance! :P

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8 minutes ago, Bugaboo said:

I thought the thread title said "tickling the ovaries" at first glance! :P

Drat, that reminds me to go schedule my yearly...:tmi:

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Just now, dawbs said:

Drat, that reminds me to go schedule my yearly...:tmi:

I have to get mine done soon too. Thanks Jinjer :/

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As per "everything happens for a reason," this is one of my pet peeves. I hate being told it. It feels dismissive of my current feelings and suggests some sort of higher power manipulating my life. Like people are supposed to just accept and be happy that their partner died, they had a miscarriage, whatever, as if it's some promise of a happier future. Yes, events may lead to other events, but something shitty happening doesn't mean you are due a reward.


I totally understand your feelings towards this saying. I hate it was well when someone says it to me in a hard time, because in this moment I just want some comfort and my feelings to be recognized.
For the saying itself the meaning of it is a bit different to me: I translate it as from even the worst thing happening to me something positive comes out of it. That doesn't negotiate the hardness of what happened and the way I feel about it. But in the darkest time there is also light. I might not see it yet but it's there. This "not everything is lost even if it feels like" is very powerful to me.
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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, missegeno said:

I assume a pregnancy test whenever something happens to my body at the drs. I don't get offended even if i haven't had sex etc etc because they just want to be sure they don't do any harm. People lie, pregnancy tests produce false negatives, symptoms may not be present, strange things happen, and they can't take the chance that you might fall into one of those categories, no matter how much they trust you.

As per "everything happens for a reason," this is one of my pet peeves. I hate being told it. It feels dismissive of my current feelings and suggests some sort of higher power manipulating my life. Like people are supposed to just accept and be happy that their partner died, they had a miscarriage, whatever, as if it's some promise of a happier future. Yes, events may lead to other events, but something shitty happening doesn't mean you are due a reward.

I'm an over-analyzer so "everything happens for a reason" just always makes me think of how that's fine and good for my lucky ass white middle class life, but what about the families of black people killed by cops? Or kids who die of starvation? Genocide? Hate crimes? Loss of health insurance? All for a reason? 

Heck, even my own rapes and abuse? Did those "happen for a reason?" Don't think so...But I get why the thought comforts people. Some survivors like to think their abuse made them stronger, I just think of it as an obstacle that I had to deal with that I shouldn't have to. Personally I find that idea weird because it almost seems like I'm supposed to be grateful for sexual assault. 

Don't want to rain on anybody's parade, whatever gets you through life is fine. I just don't get that reasoning. 

Edited by SweetFellowshipper
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15 hours ago, Jana814 said:

That's nuts. I did not know a guy can have 3 vasectomies. 

https://youtu.be/ox0iKsXKLjw

Terrible video quality. But Michael Scott all the same :) 

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14 hours ago, MarblesMom said:

My neighbor had a vas, and then conceived another child.  They sued, and won Big Time, and moved to the So Cal Coast.  I wonder how the youngest felt about it when she grew up and found out why they lived in luxury.

As in "we never wanted you, but look where you are now!"  ugh, thanks Mom and Dad.

My step brother had a VAS and got checked and all. He and his wife were very confused recently when she was sick a lot, finally figured it out, #4 is coming this summer! scares me because my DH had a VAS recently too!

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25 minutes ago, SweetFellowshipper said:

I'm an over-analyzer so "everything happens for a reason" just always makes me think of how that's fine and good for my lucky ass white middle class life, but what about the families of black people killed by cops? Or kids who die of starvation? Genocide? Hate crimes? Loss of health insurance? All for a reason? 

Heck, even my own rapes and abuse? Did those "happen for a reason?" Don't think so...But I get why the thought comforts people. Some survivors like to think their abuse made them stronger, I just think of it as an obstacle that I had to deal with that I shouldn't have to. Personally I find that idea weird because it almost seems like I'm supposed to be grateful for sexual assault. 

Don't want to rain on anybody's parade, whatever gets you through life is fine. I just don't get that reasoning. 

At least from a Theological standpoint it's not flippant at all (though maybe people reduce it to that) - I think it comes from the life of Joseph, who was kidnapped, sold by his brothers into slavery, who faked his death ... then he served multiple masters, was falsely accused of rape/harrasment by his boss's wife, thrown in prison .. and ultimately becomes second in command in Egypt and oversees a LONG food storage program to withstand coming famine ... so the stuff that happened to him (and so many of us humans) was horrible .. but it still is the circumstances that eventually brought about something good.  

It would be hard to find just about anyone who made significant contribution to mankind who didn't go through serious hard stuff.  

Or we could just refer to country radio ... "God bless the broken road that led me straight to yooooooooooouu"   ;) 

6 hours ago, HereticHick said:

Good catch, kinphilly!  Sight and Sound puts on religious shows & seems to be a fundy favorite--don't know why we didn't think of it before! I guess they saw the "Miracle of Christmas" show: http://www.sight-sound.com/WebSite/shows.do?showCD=MOC

Isn't there a Sight and Sound Theater in Branson, MO as well?

Alas, and we were hoping that they were seeing something somewhat secular. Shouldn't have gotten our hopes up.

Yes, I think there's one in Branson, but I live in the same county as the Vuolos.   Never been to Missouri :)  

I actually have been trying to figure out in what church she was playing the piano ... I'm convinced I've been in that sanctuary before ...

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18 hours ago, Stormy said:

Did it...not take? Or something? I know vasectomies can fail, but can this happen?...

As for tubal's failing, I've heard of it happening ~ the article I'm linking lists a study that says 18 unintended pregnancies, per 1000 operations.  Yikes.  http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Surprisingly-High-Failure-Rate-for-Tubal-Ligation-2985708.php

19 hours ago, Jana814 said:

No I'm Jewish. Wasn't Jesus conceived without relations or have I been wrong all these years. 

Yeah, Mary was Jewish, and most fundamental (not necessarily fundie, but the original intent of the word) Christians believe she got pregnant by the Holy Ghost/Spirit when the Angel Gabriel descended to tell her she'd been chosen.  Jesus was raised Jewish, and there's a lot of (understandable) debate, as to whether Jesus ever intended to create Christianity in the first place, or wanted a different "kind" of Jewish experience for those who believed in him. 

BUT here's the best proof that Jesus was Jewish ;)

17 hours ago, Tiny Bubbles said:

A friend had a vasectomy. At his post procedure sample check they found lots of sperm. Long story short, instead of two vas he had THREE, so after the vasectomy one was still in there pumping out the little swimmers!  

This scares the shit out of me . . . I'm calling that damn doctor's office on Monday, and getting a cup for my husband stat lol.

13 hours ago, SoybeanQueen said:

I've lost track in the various threads, but I think this one was where the discussion of the elder Duggar family receiving a massive per-child  tax credit occurred. From what I've read of Trump's proposed tax plan, they will no longer receive that credit for their dependent children. At least at one time, Trump planned to take away the per child automatic credit and replace it with child care credits. Families that don't pay for child care won't receive credit.

It penalizes married couples with a stay at home parent, the ideal of many of his "family values" voters. I mean, it penalizes those heathen unmarried folks, too, at a greater rate, but that was to be expected, right?

And this scares the shit out of me, too . . . :/

8 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

25 years ago when my psycho mom had her hysterectomy she had to have it done at a different hospital because the catholic one she uses (because she's catholic) wouldn't allow for it, even though she was pushing 50 had 3 almost grown children and my father had had a Vasectomy 17 years earlier.  Fast forward several  years and my doc is trying to convince my 29 year old self to have my tubes tied in that very same hospital because I was about to have my 2nd child, and that is enough, in his opinion.  Great doc, but obviously isn't one for over population of the earth. 

Probably one of the only times I got angry at a UU service, was when a guest speaker started out talking about ways we can help make Earth better (you know you're standard: recycle, buy a Prius, solar energy, and all that jazz), but began getting sidetracked.  And went left field by insisting that no one should have more than two kids ever (you know because of overpopulation), and that having more than two is selfish on our parts, and that we don't care about the Earth if we do.  I believe that if a woman has right to decide how many children she has, that that pendulum should swing both ways - she can choose to have none, or choose to have more, and that decision shouldn't be politically swayed. 

2 hours ago, Bugaboo said:

I thought the thread title said "tickling the ovaries" at first glance! :P

That's because the Duggars are slowly winning, and making us think just like them . . . we're beginning to see sex everywhere :)

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, kinphilly said:

At least from a Theological standpoint it's not flippant at all (though maybe people reduce it to that) - I think it comes from the life of Joseph, who was kidnapped, sold by his brothers into slavery, who faked his death ... then he served multiple masters, was falsely accused of rape/harrasment by his boss's wife, thrown in prison .. and ultimately becomes second in command in Egypt and oversees a LONG food storage program to withstand coming famine ... so the stuff that happened to him (and so many of us humans) was horrible .. but it still is the circumstances that eventually brought about something good.  

It would be hard to find just about anyone who made significant contribution to mankind who didn't go through serious hard stuff.  

Or we could just refer to country radio ... "God bless the broken road that led me straight to yooooooooooouu"   ;) 

Yes, I think there's one in Branson, but I live in the same county as the Vuolos.   Never been to Missouri :)  

I actually have been trying to figure out in what church she was playing the piano ... I'm convinced I've been in that sanctuary before ...

Sorry, it won't let me get rid of the quote box.

I strongly disagree-- on the contrary, I see many successful people who have had many privileges and not many hardships. More than the opposite I'd say. And on the other hand, there are many more people who undergo trauma, poverty and abuse who continue to suffer from PTSD or experience further, exacerbated, relentless poverty, trauma and abuse as a result than there are people who are made "better" because of it. Suffering is much likelier to beget more suffering than the opposite. I think thinking of poverty and abuse as leading to additional strength and an ultimately positive outcome 1) exonerates the unjust system or person/people who caused the problems to begin with (after all, if one's abuse ultimately makes them "strong," then is the abuse really even bad? Do we need to change it?), and 2) is just a repeat of the patently false "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" narrative that only serves to keep marginalized people down. The few examples of people who are able to find success after abuse, trauma or poverty likely did so because they either had other privileges that some in their position didn't have or they were a rare exception due to high IQ or lucky circumstances. 

Edited by Coconut Flan
Removed duplicate quote.
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2 hours ago, kinphilly said:

-snip- but it still is the circumstances that eventually brought about something good.  

It would be hard to find just about anyone who made significant contribution to mankind who didn't go through serious hard stuff.  

Or we could just refer to country radio ... "God bless the broken road that led me straight to yooooooooooouu"   ;) 

-snip-

I think it's a pretty popular Christian belief/hope that "something good will come out of this", because we'd like to believe that God is watching over us and working our lives for something good (whether for our own benefit, or for those around us).  That being said, though I've told myself, "everything happens for a reason", and it's brought me some comfort, I don't think I'd say it to someone else (or would even want someone saying it to me), because it rarely seems to be said at the right time.  The last thing someone needs, when they've finally admitted just how hard things are going for them, is a "well it happened, so buck up" <-- even if it's not the intent, I doubt in a time of grief over a loss, or life event, calls for it.  I think it's better saved for times of reflection long after the event.

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18 hours ago, justodd said:

I hate that question, because my answer has often been something along the lines of "about six months ago," and I can't stand the condescending looks they always give me when I insist that in no uncertain terms is there ANY chance I could be pregnant. My reproductive system is batshit defective, and though I rarely get my period, it lasts FOREVER when it finally shows up. (I talk about my period like prison, "yeah, I did about eight months time last year...kinda sucked.") Their bewilderment when I explain that I've been soaking overnight pads every half hour for days on end isn't much better.

 

They put me on Metformin in November (after TWENTY-SIX YEARS of being told my only option was the pill, which is apparently super dangerous if you're as prone to clotting as I am), and it was miraculous in stopping what had been going on for almost a year. I just started spotting a little yesterday, and I'm super afraid it means my body's getting too used to it for any benefit. :(

 

I don't mean to pry, but I have the same problem with heavy irregular bleeding and I was wondering what the side effects of meformin are?

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4 hours ago, December said:

Thank you for posting this, because I was thinking of the scene, too! :D

Yep. It seems awkward to have to take one sometimes, especially if you haven't been sexually active for a while. But it's not personal. Sort of like how when you go to an ER or urgent care place, they'll inevitably ask you in private if you're in any sort of danger, being threatened or controlled by someone, etc.

Yeah, I'm fine with a little awkwardness if it means that the doctor/nurse isn't leaving any stone unturned. I've gotten a few to laugh by responding to "are you sexually active/do you think you could be pregnant" with "nope, dying alone" or "nope, no one's been desperate enough in a long while".

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4 minutes ago, nastyhobbitses said:

Yeah, I'm fine with a little awkwardness if it means that the doctor/nurse isn't leaving any stone unturned. I've gotten a few to laugh by responding to "are you sexually active/do you think you could be pregnant" with "nope, dying alone" or "nope, no one's been desperate enough in a long while".

When I had sex with only women, they'd ask "are you sexually active?" "Yes." "What do you use for birth control?" "I don't use any." "The pill?" "No." "Condoms?" "No." In horror, ".......Then how do you prevent pregnancy?" "Sex with women usually takes care of that." The relief on their faces!!

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I have known men born with only one testicle. Why couldn't a guy be born with three? Then, he'd need three snips!

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Posted (edited)

I went into the urgent care clinic once.  I knew I had a UTI.  Let me pee in the cup give me antibiotics and then send me on my way.  The NP was persistent in  asking if I could be pregnant.  Finally I was like, " I haven't had sex in a year."  I was in grad school and couldn't afford any unnecessary tests.  I look up and she's writing it in BOLD on my chart!!!   I was mortified.  I think I even said you don't have to write that down... I had flashes of the Seinfeld episode where Elaine had stuff written in her chart and wanted it changed and got into all sorts of problems and basically on the no fly sheet for Dr offices.  I kept my mouth shut after that.

Edited by Incognito22
Autocorrect
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3 hours ago, KelseyAnn said:

I don't mean to pry, but I have the same problem with heavy irregular bleeding and I was wondering what the side effects of meformin are?

I haven't experienced any, but according to google, they look like the common ones: tiredness, dizziness, nausea, etc. It's actually a medication meant for helping high blood sugar (so it's fortuitous that they put me on it just before discovering I'm pre diabetic), but since Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome is related to insulin resistance, metformin can be really efffective at helping regulate things and increase fertility. It's also sometimes reported that obese women who are put on it have an easier time losing weight, but that seems more anecdotal than anything else. I will say that I've dropped a surprising amount of weight since I started taking it a month ago, but I can't say how much (if any) is due to the medicine, since that also coincided with a change in eating habits and an increase in exercise. (Fifteen pounds down, roughly ninety more to go...)

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