Nathan 3: "She loves me, she loves me not, she loves . . . "

[Bye Bye Birdie]

5 minutes ago, samurai_sarah said:

Thank you for sharing your story! I'm glad to hear that you're doing well out of fundiedom.

*mod hat on*

To the bolded:

Just a friendly reminder that FJ is not and cannot function as a self-help group. I'm sure you are already aware of that, but sometimes it bears repeating.

*mod hat off*

Yea, I didn't mean it like that.. I just meant it like- it helps me process everything when I can talk about it with people like you and others who understand the dangers of IBPL and can discuss in an intelligent manner thoughts processes in my head

[SpoonfulOSugar]

@Bye Bye Birdie thanks so much for sharing.  It's interesting that the kids maintain some contact even though you are "misguided."

I'm confused - was your hubby intentionally concealing his liberalism on the trip?  (I didn't know if that was tongue-in-cheek or he was infiltrating to rescue misguided fundies.)

Do you still live in the South?  It *seems* to me to be harder to make dramatic life changes (like becoming Presbyterian) if you still are near family and friends who disapprove.  (Hence why I moved well away from my parents and from Mister Spoon's family.)  Do your parents offer any pressure that you are off track?

I guess the other thing I am wondering is about education/career.  Have you received any feedback from others about your choice of Covenant?  Are you working or SAH or ???  Did you feel disadvantaged by your family's educational choices (there's a couple threads right now where the parents' schooling decisions are a heavy topic!)

[HereticHick]

Thanks much for sharing @Bye Bye Birdie.

So you went to Covenant on Lookout Mtn?  I have friends (all PCA) who went there. I'm from over the state line in Wesernt North Carolina, but have friends and family in East Tennessee.

Did you ever run into Tim and Franicia White in Chatanooga?

 

 

 

 

[doubleT]

22 hours ago, Bye Bye Birdie said:

I knew him personally. He's only a bit older than me, but he was just the fundie dream you know  Plus, my family were basically their leghumping patient zero, so not only would we hang out with them as much as we could, but I honestly think it was my mom's wet dream that I end up with one of the Bates boys- so out of the three, Nathan was younger, Lawson was unbearable and Zach was perfect!  Just like Goldilocks! 

How was Lawson unbearable? 

I'm surprised you saw anything from him other than a perfect teenage boy, especially when guest were around. 

[OrchidBlossom]

@Bye Bye Birdie thank you so much for sharing! And I am glad to hear that you found the path that works for you (and, frankly, that was out of fundie-ism). May I ask (and as before please feel free not to answer if it is too personal) what is it like to talk to the Bates women when you are on a different path from them? I don't mean with specificity or anything, but does faith and your theological differences come up often? Or do you mostly talk about the usual friendly kind of things? I've just always wondered how a fundie might balance a relationship with someone outside their exact belief system with their strong belief that showing Christian love means sort of pushing for conversion. 

[Bye Bye Birdie]

Gosh ladies thank you for your kind support and nice words! But I don't know if I'll be able to answer all that! haha! But let me try, one at a time- and I really do apologize for SUCH a long post!  

8 hours ago, SpoonfulOSugar said:

@Bye Bye Birdie thanks so much for sharing.  It's interesting that the kids maintain some contact even though you are "misguided."

I'm confused - was your hubby intentionally concealing his liberalism on the trip?  (I didn't know if that was tongue-in-cheek or he was infiltrating to rescue misguided fundies.)

Do you still live in the South?  It *seems* to me to be harder to make dramatic life changes (like becoming Presbyterian) if you still are near family and friends who disapprove.  (Hence why I moved well away from my parents and from Mister Spoon's family.)  Do your parents offer any pressure that you are off track?

I guess the other thing I am wondering is about education/career.  Have you received any feedback from others about your choice of Covenant?  Are you working or SAH or ???  Did you feel disadvantaged by your family's educational choices (there's a couple threads right now where the parents' schooling decisions are a heavy topic!)

Haha- no he wasn't on a secret mission to save fundies  He just grew up in an environment that thaught one thing, and he actually believed another, but didn't really realize it until we both met and started to talk together and discover our faith further. Presbyterians, although not always fundies also believe in women submission- but his mom was very domineering, and I guess that left an influence on him- at the beginning he was the one to push me to make decisions- I would always say 'But you're the man, you should make that choice, and I'll follow you'' and he'd just laugh, hug me and explain how it really is  

We don't live in the South anymore, thank goodness! Don't get me wrong, I looove it all, but just like you said, it's too much being so close to them all at this stage in my life- when I'm discovering who I am and what I think. Perhaps one day we'll move back- I love love my family so much and want to be close to them- and not only to be a voice of reason, but that plays a big part. For now, my parents are ok with me being where I am- to be honest, I don't really push it down their throats about how Bible is not literal, and how dancing is ok etc- I just gently mention things here and there that I find important at a given time (it's still quite difficult for me to talk about faith openly wiht my previous life, as I call it).. So perhaps they don't realize the full extent of my escapism. TBH, they believe other christians are christians too (unlike some of the Bateses), so to them I'm still a Christian, just go to a different church, with a slightly different beliefs than theirs- I guess this is one of the reasons why they are not so important in IBPL, they're not very precise with their dogmaticsm. And yea, generally, I always had positive relationship with my parents, just not with the church and other IBPLers. 

My mom was an excellent educator, so I'd say my homeschooling was better than mosts, I was lucky. I was allowed to go to Covenant, because it was close to our home, and my mom knew some of the teachers.. I have my own business now, but I don't feel like Covenant actually helped me with that, mostly other activities and courses I did online. 

8 hours ago, HereticHick said:

Thanks much for sharing @Bye Bye Birdie.

So you went to Covenant on Lookout Mtn?  I have friends (all PCA) who went there. I'm from over the state line in Wesernt North Carolina, but have friends and family in East Tennessee.

Did you ever run into Tim and Franicia White in Chatanooga?

 

Yess, that Covenant! EVERYBODY was PCA, I was probably the only one not! As I said, I think PCA teachings about women are close-ish to IBPL. Most girls went there to get their Mrs degree  

4 hours ago, doubleT said:

How was Lawson unbearable? 

I'm surprised you saw anything from him other than a perfect teenage boy, especially when guest were around. 

That was what made him unbearable- he was just so PERFECT! And he knew it too, so he was always full of himself, and I hate that in people ugh! The only redeeming thing about him to me was that he was working really hard to provide for his family (something that Gil should have been doing!!!!)- poor boy was made to grow up too quickly. Anyway, I have a really strong feeling that Lawson reads FJ, so hey Lawson!  

40 minutes ago, OrchidBlossom said:

@Bye Bye Birdie thank you so much for sharing! And I am glad to hear that you found the path that works for you (and, frankly, that was out of fundie-ism). May I ask (and as before please feel free not to answer if it is too personal) what is it like to talk to the Bates women when you are on a different path from them? I don't mean with specificity or anything, but does faith and your theological differences come up often? Or do you mostly talk about the usual friendly kind of things? I've just always wondered how a fundie might balance a relationship with someone outside their exact belief system with their strong belief that showing Christian love means sort of pushing for conversion. 

The girls are sweet, but they were given no other option.. (that's what I always worried about growing up- do my friends really like me or do they just like me because they need to be sweet and love me because Jesus ? ) Anyways, I talk faith a lot with Michael, but she really sees nothing wrong with what she believes. To her, an idea that the environment she's in is damaging is incomprehensible. She loves and respects her parents, and wants to mirror their life- have a long happy marriage and lots of kids, and love God and be blessed. Everything is very black and white with her- you either believe say think dress do something, or you don't- one is good the other is bad. But she is nothing but nice and kind to me about it- she always tells me she prays for me, and wants to pray with me. Erin, we just usually talk life, babies, cooking, families, fashion etc-  typical ''girly'' stuff  But I don't see them often anymore- like once a year , and some messages during the year.. 
 

Edited July 14, 2016 by Bye Bye Birdie

[princessmahina]

So @Bye Bye Birdie, some people on the board have speculated that Alyssa, Erin, and Michael have difficult relationships. Do you know whether that's true or not? (If that's not asking too much!) 

Edited July 15, 2016 by princessmahina

[Bye Bye Birdie]

22 minutes ago, princessmahina said:

So @Bye Bye Birdie, some people on the board have speculated that Alyssa, Erin, and Michael have difficult relationships. Do you know whether that's true or not? (If that's not asking too much!) 

That's a very difficult question.. Without going into too much detail, each relationship is different (A&E, E&M, A&M), some better than others. But I think they love each other extremely, and find support in one another- they've been through a lot together. But I think what others have noticed is also true- a certain ''sibling rivalry'' in ''holiness''. But mostly, the ''coldness'' that y'all noticed is just due to editing, and them going their separate ways, rather than any open conflict. 

[OrchidBlossom]

16 minutes ago, Bye Bye Birdie said:

That's a very difficult question.. Without going into too much detail, each relationship is different (A&E, E&M, A&M), some better than others. But I think they love each other extremely, and find support in one another- they've been through a lot together. But I think what others have noticed is also true- a certain ''sibling rivalry'' in ''holiness''. But mostly, the ''coldness'' that y'all noticed is just due to editing, and them going their separate ways, rather than any open conflict. 

Which pairing is the closest? I'm struggling to really think of any times I have truly seen Alyssa interact with her sisters, except maybe at Michael's wedding, but I assume that is due more to the fact that she was married and gone before BUB premiered.

I heard (from my friend with the fundie cousin) that Lawson is whatever the fundie equivalent of a flirt is. Like that he is more... I guess gregarious? or something than some of the others around women. Is that true? Neither of them ever used the word flirt... I'm inserting that one myself. I was told that the cousin said that he was "outgoing" and "enjoyed fellowshipping and working with many people" but her cousin filtered that for me as saying she thought it was the closest her cousin could get to describing someone who liked attention. It's funny you say he is unbearable though because my friend said she didn't think he sounded so bad... but I guess coming from the rather biased view of her cousin maybe her cousin either downplayed his more noxious attributes or ignored it completely. Or had a crush on him, he certainly is easy on the eyes.

[Bye Bye Birdie]

21 minutes ago, OrchidBlossom said:

Which pairing is the closest? I'm struggling to really think of any times I have truly seen Alyssa interact with her sisters, except maybe at Michael's wedding, but I assume that is due more to the fact that she was married and gone before BUB premiered.

I heard (from my friend with the fundie cousin) that Lawson is whatever the fundie equivalent of a flirt is. Like that he is more... I guess gregarious? or something than some of the others around women. Is that true? Neither of them ever used the word flirt... I'm inserting that one myself. I was told that the cousin said that he was "outgoing" and "enjoyed fellowshipping and working with many people" but her cousin filtered that for me as saying she thought it was the closest her cousin could get to describing someone who liked attention. It's funny you say he is unbearable though because my friend said she didn't think he sounded so bad... but I guess coming from the rather biased view of her cousin maybe her cousin either downplayed his more noxious attributes or ignored it completely. Or had a crush on him, he certainly is easy on the eyes.

Erin and Alyssa were the closest out of the tree. M always assumed responsibility even over them as well (not in a control freak bossy way, just a caring mother hen way), so the relationship was a bit different. 

Oh Lawson is a big time player! haha! Not in a secular world kind of way, but he loves the attention and he wants people to like him and notice him. He knows he's good looking, and that so many girls are into him, and he enjoys it. He's not a bad guy, I just can't stand people that are so in love with themselves... (and btw, I think he used to be very good looking couple of years back, I think he changed though- he's too thin and something else , but I can't put my finger on what it is...)

[OrchidBlossom]

Just now, Bye Bye Birdie said:

Erin and Alyssa were the closest out of the tree. M always assumed responsibility even over them as well (not in a control freak bossy way, just a caring mother hen way), so the relationship was a bit different. 

Oh Lawson is a big time player! haha! Not in a secular world kind of way, but he loves the attention and he wants people to like him and notice him. He knows he's good looking, and that so many girls are into him, and he enjoys it. He's not a bad guy, I just can't stand people that are so in love with themselves... (and btw, I think he used to be very good looking couple of years back, I think he changed though- he's too thin and something else , but I can't put my finger on what it is...)

He's definitely gotten a bit thinner in the face. I think maybe his face has some sharper angles to it lately? That was true of Zach when got older too, or at least it appeared so on television.

I could tell from the way my friend described her cousin's feelings about Lawson that he must be a flirt. I never said it though. My friend was more "worldly" than her cousin but... well I think she still would have been scandalized. Good Christian boys don't flirt, after all.

[Bye Bye Birdie]

Just now, OrchidBlossom said:

He's definitely gotten a bit thinner in the face. I think maybe his face has some sharper angles to it lately? That was true of Zach when got older too, or at least it appeared so on television.

I could tell from the way my friend described her cousin's feelings about Lawson that he must be a flirt. I never said it though. My friend was more "worldly" than her cousin but... well I think she still would have been scandalized. Good Christian boys don't flirt, after all.

Yea, and it's called 'playing with her heart'  (fundies have a lot of verbs to go with heart- playing, guarding, sharing, giving pieces fo heart away).. 

[princessmahina]

That's really interesting about the sisters. I had figured there wasn't a lot of truth behind it, but I find it intriguing that the cameras/producers are letting tension like that on the show. 

 

[marmalade]

Deactivated? Did we have another fraud in our midst?

[Coconut Flan]

The poster did not respond to a PM from the admins.  That frequently means that all is not as it should be. 

Personally I'm not believing a word of what was typed. 

[OrchidBlossom]

Oh dear. Well I suppose the silver lining is that this all reminded me I haven't talked to my friend in quite a while and I should reach out to her. Probably NOT to say I was bandying about her cousin on the internet of course. Still, it is a shame because I was excited to have some confirmation about the little sparse bits of information I had gathered from our conversations. Oh well.

[season of life]

Ok, just speaking my mind here, but I kind of hate these new accounts that pop up whenever we are discussing a topic and they claim to have a history with the fundies being discussed. I am always suspicious when that happens because I'm just a naturally suspicious person. And I hate that I can't tell if it's a fake or that it's real and this person deactivates to protect their identity. But then, I recall a Reddit thread that was discussed on FJ and it ended up that there was a real person behind it whose life could have been jeopardized. So I will never know in these situations.

But on a different note! I don't know what's really going on with Nathan and Ashley. The editing and timeline of their relationship is confusing and I don't think they are going to get back together soon. They may not be together romantically at all because I've a hard time believing those tears of Nathan's are fake. I hope Ashley doesn't get back together with him so she won't be trapped forever.

[OrchidBlossom]

10 minutes ago, season of life said:

I hope Ashley doesn't get back together with him so she won't be trapped forever.

I agree. Although I wonder whether she might just end up trapped with some other fundie a year or two down the road. It isn't exactly like ending her courtship opened up a world of exciting choices to her, given that her family seems ATI/IBLP heavy. Just sit and wait for another godly young man to come along...

What I really hope for her is that this courtship made her realize maybe an early marriage and a billion kids isn't what she wants in life and she will go explore other options. Of course, how likely is that?

[Nashville92]

Now I'm wondering if they're back together.  Wasn't that poster the one who said they were?  I also believe his tears were real when talking about the breakup

[BullyJBG]

9 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

The poster did not respond to a PM from the admins.  That frequently means that all is not as it should be. 

Personally I'm not believing a word of what was typed. 

I wondered how long Bye Bye Birdie would be here. We've seen this before; someone who is or used to be associated with the Duggars, Bates', Maxwells, and maybe others. A lot is asked of them, and then we hear no more. I think we're getting better with not being too invasive, but more to do, right? Interesting life, right? More fun with when Kori(or Andrew?) Wissmann came in as "spies".

[Palimpsest]

10 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

The poster did not respond to a PM from the admins.  That frequently means that all is not as it should be. 

Personally I'm not believing a word of what was typed. 

Done and dusted.  Thank you all for your fast responses.

[Jana814]

I hate to admit this but I believed what this person had to say. I don't consider myself a gulable person but I believed her. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

31 minutes ago, BullyJBG said:

I wondered how long Bye Bye Birdie would be here. We've seen this before; someone who is or used to be associated with the Duggars, Bates', Maxwells, and maybe others. A lot is asked of them, and then we hear no more. I think we're getting better with not being too invasive, but more to do, right? Interesting life, right? More fun with when Kori(or Andrew?) Wissmann came in as "spies".

I didn't see anyone here being invasive....I also didn't see any answers I couldn't have given you and I don't even watch their show.

Who knows what motivates people.

Did I ever tell you guys how I went to camp with Kelly Bates?......

i keeed....I keeeed...

(Triumph the Comic Dog impressions mean I need more coffee.)

[Shouldabeenacowboy]

2 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I also didn't see any answers I couldn't have given you and I don't even watch their show.

Who knows what motivates people.

This! Every time I read one of her posts, I thought "oh, that's exactly what I thought!". I also don't watch their show, but I am well versed on FJ hehehe. Maybe she is legit, maybe not.

[raisingthebarre94]

This! Every time I read one of her posts, I thought "oh, that's exactly what I thought!". I also don't watch their show, but I am well versed on FJ hehehe. Maybe she is legit, maybe not.

Plus she kept referring to IBLP as IBPL. I was confused.